Serious input needed on a banned PH

Sean8616

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What's up AM!

I'm brand new to the site and am anxious to get some help/insight into a now banned PH that I took roughly 7 years ago.

The product was known as "Tren: Xtreme" and it carried a 30mg serving per pill of 19- Norandrosta 4,9 diene 3,17 dione.

It was sold OTC at my local supplement store as a dietary supplement. Unfortunately, I was ignorant to the anabolic world and ended up listening to the rep that advised me to try a full bottle to see how I liked it.

He told me all I needed to use with it was a good SERM and to be sure to take it after I finished the 3 month supply of the Tren: Xtreme.

Reversitol v2 was my purchase and after I finished the bottle of Tren, I made sure to follow up with the Reversitol v2.

Now, here I am, 7 years later doing some research into SARMS and steroids and I just realized that the Tren I took years ago, was a freaking steroid pill!

I did not experience any sides that I'm aware of (wasn't advised that I should have been aware of side effects) and am very uneducated to what I was actually ingesting.

If anything, I'm now experiencing a side (pulling my hair out) trying to figure out how badly I screwed up.

*Lesson Learned

Sorry for the long post that could've been a lot shorter, but I'm new here and wanted to express myself with some respect to you all.

I hope you guys can chime in and expand a bit. Thanks in advance!

-Sean
 
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ChocolateClen

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Geeze man I've been around the block once or twice and haven't heard of it. There's some good pros out now but nothing like the old days. I'm not even sure where you'd look for this at this point because I've never heard of it.

Just remember if you find a place, don't post it. That'll get you banned real quick
 

mike33511

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What's your question here? Are you looking for this product again? Are you just making sure you're OK now that you've figured out you took steroids 7 years ago?

Your biggest mistake was your PCT. You should have used a pharma grade SERM like Clomid or Nolva. This is why you should never take advice from guys at supplement stores.

Have you ever had a hormone panel done? There's a good chance you're fine, but you might want to get some bloods done to make sure.
 
saywutrly

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I don't believe that OP is trying to source. He is just freaking out because he found out that he took a real steroid, or rather a one-step prohormone and not a natty test-booster supplement.

The compound you've listed is a prohormone which converts via a 1-step conversion to the active dienolone, which is a close cousin to trenbolone. This, however, is not a true trenbolone precursor and has been referred to as pro-dienolone to differentiate it from compounds which convert in some capacity or another to actual tren when metabolized by the body. My limited research on the compound shows that it is not an active prohormone, only the target hormone dienolone is active.

If this was 7 years ago, brother, and you haven't had any ill effects yet, I'd say that you're good to go. There's always some chance something is fu¢k€d up; I mean, you aren't going to know if you're still fertile until you try to have a kid or have really good health insurance which will pick up the bill for tests. That said, this was not a compound known for anything awful. It isn't like you unknowingly got yourself into something really harsh on the body such as methyl-DHT or M1T.

Yes, you should have completed a PCT with a real SERM such as clomid, nolva, toremifene, or raloxifene. Yes, you should have been on liver support and aware of your intake of water and micronutrients because this compound is known to be harsh on the liver as far as non-methyls go (not a very high benchmark). But, if all you're doing after 7 years without side effects after only one cycle is freaking out about the fact that you popped some gear, then I think your only problem is lack of education on these compounds. It isn't that you "took a steroid" it's what you took and for how long and what the effects were.

If you want to check out almost everything but fertility for cheap, there's threads here about how to get cheap labwork done. That would confirm that at least your HPTA and cardiovascular systems have recovered fully. Some people would say that's crazy after 7 years, but if seeing on paper from a doctor that you're okay prevents you from needing a Xanax prescription over this, then I'd say it's money well spent.

Just go ahead and chalk this up as a very cheap life lesson 1-2 punch. 1) Never take the sole advice of someone who has a financial interest in your opinion of the topic at hand (most supp store employees make at least a portion of their wages on commission). 2) Never put something into your body without first extensively, EXHAUSTIVELY researching it on your own. Your body and your wallet will both always appreciate it.
 
Sean8616

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Geeze man I've been around the block once or twice and haven't heard of it. There's some good pros out now but nothing like the old days. I'm not even sure where you'd look for this at this point because I've never heard of it.

Just remember if you find a place, don't post it. That'll get you banned real quick
I'm pretty sure the product is dead at this point because the company, "American Cellular Labs" got hit pretty hard for misrepresentation.

I literally bought this from my local store, "Max Nutrition" here in Northern California.

I can't tell you how freaking awesome my gains were though.

Thanks for commenting.
 
Sean8616

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What's your question here? Are you looking for this product again? Are you just making sure you're OK now that you've figured out you took steroids 7 years ago?

Your biggest mistake was your PCT. You should have used a pharma grade SERM like Clomid or Nolva. This is why you should never take advice from guys at supplement stores.

Have you ever had a hormone panel done? There's a good chance you're fine, but you might want to get some bloods done to make sure.
Yeah, am really interested to get some decent input on the compound, in relation to the Reversitol v2 I posted with.

I did find somebody's log with a Trenbolone cycle who PCT'd with Reversitol v2 and Testabolan v2. The guy showed his blood work pre and 6 weeks post with great panel numbers, however, he did use the Testabolan v2, which is what I failed to have in my PCT.

I have not had a reading, would like to now that I just realized how much more serious the compound I cycled with truly is.

I definitely realize now that I should've had a pharm grade SERM, and should have also had a test booster for PCT, right?
 

mike33511

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Yeah, am really interested to get some decent input on the compound, in relation to the Reversitol v2 I posted with.

I did find somebody's log with a Trenbolone cycle who PCT'd with Reversitol v2 and Testabolan v2. The guy showed his blood work pre and 6 weeks post with great panel numbers, however, he did use the Testabolan v2, which is what I failed to have in my PCT.

I have not had a reading, would like to now that I just realized how much more serious the compound I cycled with truly is.

I definitely realize now that I should've had a pharm grade SERM, and should have also had a test booster for PCT, right?
A test booster is optional for PCT. It is there to help with libido and mood while you're recovering. The SERM is the drug that helps you recover.

Yes, it's possible to recover on your own (as you did), but it might take months, while a SERM can do it for you in 4 weeks. Some guys never fully recover, which is much less likely to happen if a SERM is used, although still possible.
 
Sean8616

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I don't believe that OP is trying to source. He is just freaking out because he found out that he took a real steroid, or rather a one-step prohormone and not a natty test-booster supplement.

The compound you've listed is a prohormone which converts via a 1-step conversion to the active dienolone, which is a close cousin to trenbolone. This, however, is not a true trenbolone precursor and has been referred to as pro-dienolone to differentiate it from compounds which convert in some capacity or another to actual tren when metabolized by the body. My limited research on the compound shows that it is not an active prohormone, only the target hormone dienolone is active.

If this was 7 years ago, brother, and you haven't had any ill effects yet, I'd say that you're good to go. There's always some chance something is fu¢k€d up; I mean, you aren't going to know if you're still fertile until you try to have a kid or have really good health insurance which will pick up the bill for tests. That said, this was not a compound known for anything awful. It isn't like you unknowingly got yourself into something really harsh on the body such as methyl-DHT or M1T.

Yes, you should have completed a PCT with a real SERM such as clomid, nolva, toremifene, or raloxifene. Yes, you should have been on liver support and aware of your intake of water and micronutrients because this compound is known to be harsh on the liver as far as non-methyls go (not a very high benchmark). But, if all you're doing after 7 years without side effects after only one cycle is freaking out about the fact that you popped some gear, then I think your only problem is lack of education on these compounds. It isn't that you "took a steroid" it's what you took and for how long and what the effects were.

If you want to check out almost everything but fertility for cheap, there's threads here about how to get cheap labwork done. That would confirm that at least your HPTA and cardiovascular systems have recovered fully. Some people would say that's crazy after 7 years, but if seeing on paper from a doctor that you're okay prevents you from needing a Xanax prescription over this, then I'd say it's money well spent.

Just go ahead and chalk this up as a very cheap life lesson 1-2 punch. 1) Never take the sole advice of someone who has a financial interest in your opinion of the topic at hand (most supp store employees make at least a portion of their wages on commission). 2) Never put something into your body without first extensively, EXHAUSTIVELY researching it on your own. Your body and your wallet will both always appreciate it.
Yes.

This is the insight I was hoping for, thank you.

Okay, a bit of some peace of mind with your input, however, do you have any thoughts since I did not stack a test booster?

*Fwiw, I have nothing against taking PH's, but taking PH's in the manner that I subjected myself to, being unaware and greatly uneducated, indeed a no no

*1-2 punch taken
 
Sean8616

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A test booster is optional for PCT. It is there to help with libido and mood while you're recovering. The SERM is the drug that helps you recover.

Yes, it's possible to recover on your own (as you did), but it might take months, while a SERM can do it for you in 4 weeks. Some guys never fully recover, which is much less likely to happen if a SERM is used, although still possible.
Awesome, thank you so much for hopping on my thread and taking the time to interject.

I know I have a lot of studying to do in the field and I thank you for the clarity.

So, hypothetically, I would have been completely in the clear if my SERM had been that of a pharm grade SERM, such as Clomid or Nolva, correct?
 

mike33511

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Awesome, thank you so much for hopping on my thread and taking the time to interject.

I know I have a lot of studying to do in the field and I thank you for the clarity.

So, hypothetically, I would have been completely in the clear if my SERM had been that of a pharm grade SERM, such as Clomid or Nolva, correct?
There are no guarantees in this, but it's about as close to one as you'll get.
 
Sean8616

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There are no guarantees in this, but it's about as close to one as you'll get.
Yeah, I hear you.

My main thing right now is wondering how successful my body was in re-igniting my test if this 19- Norandrosta compound completely shut me down.

It sucks now, cause I can't remember or recall any symptoms of anything like this, most likely because I was completely unaware of what I was taking so in turn I was oblivious what to feel for, idk.

I'll take what you've provided me thus far. It's nice to know some people actually still care about others.

Thanks man!
 
saywutrly

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Yes.

This is the insight I was hoping for, thank you.

Okay, a bit of some peace of mind with your input, however, do you have any thoughts since I did not stack a test booster?

*Fwiw, I have nothing against taking PH's, but taking PH's in the manner that I subjected myself to, being unaware and greatly uneducated, indeed a no no

*1-2 punch taken
Test boosters are overrated in my opinion. A lot of companies who sell them, however, help keep the lights on here without necessitating a membership fee. Thus, you'll see them pushed awful hard. If you want to use one, then, I would research a natty anabolic that uses pathways other than test boosting. Those seem to garner much better results. Follidrone by BLR and one by PES have gotten good feedback here, but there are men way more knowledgeable about the natty stuff here than I. Just be vigilant about who is advising, remember the financial component when it comes to company reps. Not to knock them, that's their job and they do it well. They are also very polite and as fair as possible with financial bias involved.

I've personally only used the NolvadrenXT/DeltaXT stack from MAN sports and was happy with it. It's a decent combo of basic test boosting, natty anabolics, and cortisol control. It also provides your nightly ZMA. I ran it because I wanted a natty cycle bridge that would help during a cut on keto and had gotten a crazy good deal on it. Given the same deal, I'd pick it up again. Test boosters on cycle and in PCT are, again, pretty useless. Design your cycle right with a test base and proper PCT and you won't need them unless you want something to mess with between cycles (I've mostly moved on to things like IGF, peptides, Helios, etc for that now).

Awesome, thank you so much for hopping on my thread and taking the time to interject.

I know I have a lot of studying to do in the field and I thank you for the clarity.

So, hypothetically, I would have been completely in the clear if my SERM had been that of a pharm grade SERM, such as Clomid or Nolva, correct?
In a short answer, mostly correct. I would have been running organ support supps (liver, prostate, cardiovascular) as people's on-cycle bloodwork has come back pretty f'd from this stuff. Liver Assist XT by Serious Nutrition Solutions is the best bargain for liver. You can get hawthorn berries for blood pressure and an herbal prostate complex including saw palmetto for a great price from that company named after the greatest character in the show Parks and Recreation. I can't mention them because they're not a board sponsor.

Back to the SERM; you can also use a research company SERM. It doesn't have to be an actual pharm product from a real big pharma company (save for cabergoline - no matter what people say it isn't stable in liquid). You just want to ensure to have a pharm grade compound such as clomid/nolva/toremifene.

Subscribe to some reputable research chemical company email lists so that you know about sales and discount codes. The source I use sends out 40-50% off like candy. It makes it way easier to prepare properly for a cycle and any bad sides which may come your way. I always keep a spare of each exemestane, anastrazole (adex), and letrozole so I can ramp up my AI strength level by level if estro gets out of control, tamoxifen (nolvadex) in case of gyno flareups, and prami or caber for prolactin issues in addition to my full PCT in case I need to end my cycle early and any standard on-cycle support. Some may call this overkill, but it's way cheaper than a $5,000 gyno operation which insurance won't cover as it is considered cosmetic.

To recap, make sure you look out for your estrogen balance on cycle with an appropriately dosed AI, your boners and mood with a proper test base on cycle (dermacrine, 4 andro, trest, and OL's sup3r DHEA are your main ones), your balls with a good quality SERM PCT, and your organs with PROPERLY DOSED support supps. Most all in one cycle supports aren't dosed highly enough, include something unfavorable, or are way too expensive. This is why I cover each organ/system individually.

Once you've done your research and are ready to knowingly run a PH cycle, (or some real gear - we all say we won't go there but even I did haha) be sure to start a thread for it and we will help you fine tune, give suggestions, etc. Feel free to mention my handle in such a thread if you'd like my input there. Any new threads I find are happenchance.
 
saywutrly

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Yeah, I hear you.

My main thing right now is wondering how successful my body was in re-igniting my test if this 19- Norandrosta compound completely shut me down.

It sucks now, cause I can't remember or recall any symptoms of anything like this, most likely because I was completely unaware of what I was taking so in turn I was oblivious what to feel for, idk.

I'll take what you've provided me thus far. It's nice to know some people actually still care about others.

Thanks man!
You're correct that this one is from a class known for hard shutdown, but if you get a boner when necessary and you aren't an emotional, moody *******, you should be fine. Bloodwork will confirm this fact, however.

We're always here to help, man. You'll find quite a few caring brothers if you choose to stick around.
 
Sean8616

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You're correct that this one is from a class known for hard shutdown, but if you get a boner when necessary and you aren't an emotional, moody *******, you should be fine. Bloodwork will confirm this fact, however.

We're always here to help, man. You'll find quite a few caring brothers if you choose to stick around.
Waow bro, you hooked me up with a ton of insight.... thank you!

Unfortunately, I have no medical insurance and barely have enough income to support myself atm.

Livin the dream, right? Lol.

At 30 years old I'd say my emotions are pretty stable, and, I am able to obtain and maintain an erection with the lady, although I don't wake up with morning wood like I used to. Personally though, I've found erections to be very psychological. In my opinion, I'd say that morning wood would be a better method of gauging T levels especially since blood tests are best to be drawn in the am.

That's just my 2, though.

It seems there is a large number of low T symptoms that could also really be pertaining to other root causes.... so I guess my only option really is to save up some loot to get to a doctor for lab work to be done.

What a mess.
 
saywutrly

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Waow bro, you hooked me up with a ton of insight.... thank you!

Unfortunately, I have no medical insurance and barely have enough income to support myself atm.

Livin the dream, right? Lol.

At 30 years old I'd say my emotions are pretty stable, and, I am able to obtain and maintain an erection with the lady, although I don't wake up with morning wood like I used to. Personally though, I've found erections to be very psychological. In my opinion, I'd say that morning wood would be a better method of gauging T levels especially since blood tests are best to be drawn in the am.

That's just my 2, though.

It seems there is a large number of low T symptoms that could also really be pertaining to other root causes.... so I guess my only option really is to save up some loot to get to a doctor for lab work to be done.

What a mess.
There's a thread on here and a couple other forums about how to get cheap bloodwork done without insurance. At 30, a plethora of things could be affecting low T. If your numbers are bad the saving will likely be for an endocrinologist visit. That said, there are some protocols out there on how to jump start your production using HCG and a couple other ancillaries. It would be a lot cheaper than the bill once you get done with a specialist by the time he's done diagnosing and prescribing, plus I can't imagine pharmacy testosterone for HRT is very cheap without insurance. I can't speak from experience on that, though.

And yes, they are emotional, but test and e2 will affect your emotions quite a bit. I was giving symptoms of a wacky test/e2 balance rather than simply low test, which is easier to use as a barometer in my eyes since recovery from a cycle essentially means to achieve natural homeostasis.
 
Sean8616

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There's a thread on here and a couple other forums about how to get cheap bloodwork done without insurance. At 30, a plethora of things could be affecting low T. If your numbers are bad the saving will likely be for an endocrinologist visit. That said, there are some protocols out there on how to jump start your production using HCG and a couple other ancillaries. It would be a lot cheaper than the bill once you get done with a specialist by the time he's done diagnosing and prescribing, plus I can't imagine pharmacy testosterone for HRT is very cheap without insurance. I can't speak from experience on that, though.

And yes, they are emotional, but test and e2 will affect your emotions quite a bit. I was giving symptoms of a wacky test/e2 balance rather than simply low test, which is easier to use as a barometer in my eyes since recovery from a cycle essentially means to achieve natural homeostasis.
Is HCG the "HCGenerate" supplement?

Thanks for advising me to check that thread out.... any help I can get means a whole lot to me right now.

Apologies, but I'm not sure what you're referring to in your last paragraph?

EDIT TO ADD:

Have been doing a bit of research....

"HCG" = Human Chorionic Gonadotropin

Just thought I'd answer my own question to you about HCG.

What's your thoughts on DAA and Fadogia Agrestis?

Wondering if maybe I should toss those in with my daily intake of D3:10,000IU (I do supp with 'K' to synergize the high dose of D btw)
 
saywutrly

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D3 is imperative for male function. I would also use a ZMA if you are not already.

Yes, the real HCG you pin subcutaneous, not the herbal stuff.
 
Sean8616

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Yeah, I do dose zma some days out of the week. I don't quite sleep right on it. I always end up waking feeling fully rested after 3 hours.

What about DAA or Fadogia Agrestis?

Curious because I've read some nice positives with 3g/day of DAA. Not test boosting, but maintenance.
 
saywutrly

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Yeah, I do dose zma some days out of the week. I don't quite sleep right on it. I always end up waking feeling fully rested after 3 hours.

What about DAA or Fadogia Agrestis?

Curious because I've read some nice positives with 3g/day of DAA. Not test boosting, but maintenance.
Any of the natty test boosters you can take or leave. Even if you boost test by 100% it's difficult to notice, and their studies are done on healthy volunteers. I'd get the labs done and then see where you're at. You'll get to the price of the labs pretty quick throwing herbs and spices at what we aren't yet even sure is a real problem. (symptoms could be caused by something totally different)
 
saywutrly

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Just picked up on your ZMA experience. If it isn't interacting with medications, I'd say that you might be deficient in one of those things if it changes your sleep pattern drastically and you still feel fully rested.
 
Sean8616

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Any of the natty test boosters you can take or leave. Even if you boost test by 100% it's difficult to notice, and their studies are done on healthy volunteers. I'd get the labs done and then see where you're at. You'll get to the price of the labs pretty quick throwing herbs and spices at what we aren't yet even sure is a real problem. (symptoms could be caused by something totally different)
Ok, makes complete sense.

I don't have any of the known related side effects of the 19-Nor 4,9 diene, but I do really want to finally get a panel for the first time, especially knowing how badly I screwed up with that cycle.

Knowing what I know now, my god, my results from that cycle could have been a hundred times better, and I had damn good results.

Just picked up on your ZMA experience. If it isn't interacting with medications, I'd say that you might be deficient in one of those things if it changes your sleep pattern drastically and you still feel fully rested.
My apologies, I left out the 3mg of melatonin that's in my ZMA. Sorry about that.
 
saywutrly

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Bleh. Damn combination products. Grab a quality ZMA without melatonin or anything other than the ZMA complex and some separate melatonin so you can figure out which is causing that weird reaction.
 
Sean8616

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Bleh. Damn combination products. Grab a quality ZMA without melatonin or anything other than the ZMA complex and some separate melatonin so you can figure out which is causing that weird reaction.
You're freaking right. I gotta stick with the basics and not get suckered into all the bull**** hype.

Luckily, for the most part anyway, over the past years, my main supps I've stuck with are Vitamin D 5,000 - Creatine Mono - Citrulline/Malate and a low carb diet.

Thanks a ton man, I really appreciate the help and useful insight. I may come back around with an M-Test run to share my experience after I get my blood work done and looked at by an endo.

Be cool brother, thanks again and enjoy your New Years.
 
saywutrly

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You're freaking right. I gotta stick with the basics and not get suckered into all the bull**** hype.

Luckily, for the most part anyway, over the past years, my main supps I've stuck with are Vitamin D 5,000 - Creatine Mono - Citrulline/Malate and a low carb diet.

Thanks a ton man, I really appreciate the help and useful insight. I may come back around with an M-Test run to share my experience after I get my blood work done and looked at by an endo.

Be cool brother, thanks again and enjoy your New Years.
Nothing wrong with malic acid chelated citrulline or creatine, and every male walking the earth who doesn't get direct sunlight all day like a plant should take D3 @5000 IU a day. Those are all great choices, brother.

We've all had our time being sucked into market hype. When we used to post stash pics, I would sometimes get chastised. Being one of those lanky tall ectos, I bought the hardgainer marketing and gained a lot of low quality weight that I've had to spend the past 9 months trimming off slowly so I don't lose muscle gains. I've been in a perpetual recomp for essentially my last two cycles, PCTs, and off times. The scale and waistline keeps going down and my lifts keep going up and I haven't spent nearly what I was spending on supps a year ago. Why was I talking about myself in your thread? So you know that **** happens to all of us brother haha.

You're always welcome for any help. You have the perfect demeanor for hanging around AM. You should get real help instead of smart alecky remarks from the veterans; they're very nice but I've watched them make some know-it-alls very butthurt haha. Happy New Year to you as well, brother! See you around!
 

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