PCT

[Jokers]

Sup guys, I'm running Super mandro along with Andro Giant for 6 weeks At 330mg a piece. I Don't run cycles very often I Do have a enough Nolva for 10/10/10 and a bottle of Rebirth. Sufficient Pct for this Andro run?

 

[booneman77]

10 is pretty low, and rebirth is better run longer (8 weeks iirc). I would advise getting more of a serm.

That said, you "might" be ok, I just wouldn't risk it to save a few bucks.

If you need to really maximize what you're getting for otc supps, look at adding Sns reduce xt for cortisol control and inhibit e for e control (lower e can also help to "trick" your body produce more test)

 

[RANS0M]

Nolva 20/20/10/10 - No excuses
Rebirth
Creatine & Bcaas are your friend also
Epic is good, laxo, pa

 

[Jebrook]

Sup guys, I'm running Super mandro along with Andro Giant for 6 weeks At 330mg a piece. I Don't run cycles very often I Do have a enough Nolva for 10/10/10 and a bottle of Rebirth. Sufficient Pct for this Andro run?

Is it pharm grade Nolva or RC grade? If it's pharm, I'd be comfortable with that and Rebirth. K1ngsblood would be a sweet natty test booster you could add to optimize test and other important hormones through multiple pathways.

 

[InItForGainz]

10 is pretty low, and rebirth is better run longer (8 weeks iirc). I would advise getting more of a serm.

That said, you "might" be ok, I just wouldn't risk it to save a few bucks.

If you need to really maximize what you're getting for otc supps, look at adding Sns reduce xt for cortisol control and inhibit e for e control (lower e can also help to "trick" your body produce more test)

Totally x2 on this.
PCT is the most important part of a cycle.

Your best bet is
Clomid (SERM)
50/25/25/25/12.5
OR
Nolva (SERM)
40/40/20/20/10

AlphaMax XT (Natty Anabolic + Anti E)
4/4/4/4

Reduce XT (Anti Cortisol)
4/3/3/3

 

[deeznutsboi]

Personally I think serm pct protocol is way to high. I think that's just fine, for myself. That being said I am NOT you and I only know how I recover. It would probably be golden being it's a simple andro cycle but it's your risk. Most will say you need to get more serm. I usually run Clomid 25/20/15/10

 

[LeanEngineer]

Totally x2 on this.
PCT is the most important part of a cycle.

Your best bet is
Clomid (SERM)
50/25/25/25/12.5
OR
Nolva (SERM)
40/40/20/20/10

AlphaMax XT (Natty Anabolic + Anti E)
4/4/4/4

Reduce XT (Anti Cortisol)
4/3/3/3

Agreed. The main thing is getting your serm in your pct like said above nolva or clomid. That will be your base for your pct and the most important item to have.

 

[Rndmher]

I don't know why people like this 1/4 andro stack, I did it awhile ago and it's was a collosal waste of money.

 

[AntM1564]

PCT looks good. I always suggest AlphaMax XT due to the cortisol control from the ashwagandha, dhaa and tongkat ali. You are also looking at a libido boost from the tongkat ali and 3,4 dinavil. Forskolin, vitamin d3 and 3,4 dinavil will all help increase testosterone as well.

 

[210LBS]

I don't know why people like this 1/4 andro stack, I did it awhile ago and it's was a collosal waste of money.

Really? Seems to be the standard on here. What have you run with success?

 

[Rndmher]

Listen alot of people on here like prohormones. I've done a few cycles when I was getting my toes wet like 1/4 andro (specifically andro fhe giant and Mandro) and dmz. There were some benefits especially the dmz but it's not what I had hoped. Maybe I built it up to much in my mind but the result of these cycles(which were done properly with a cycle support, pct, serm, dmaa) was my test was in the trash still about 4 months later.
I went to the doc got tested and my total test was 86. Before the cycles it was in the 700s. I'm currently on test cyp and will do Winny once a year or so.
These substances(prohormones) aren't researched, mostly based on bro science, change just to skirt the law, and aren't focused on consumers health. Real aas have been around for decades are studied and controlled.
What quality assurance is there that your bottle is even really 1/4 andro? Because some guy on the internet says he took it and blew up. It's just really snake oil to me and the limited benefits(in my opinion) don't outweigh the risk.

Just do steroids. It's cheaper, works better, and has been studied.
Sure your breaking the law but it's worth it for your health.
I'm open to hearing anyone elses opinions.

 

[Rndmher]

And I think it's been said on here before to if you do run it have an AI on hand the 4 andro has a fairly high conversion rate to estrogen. Especially if your gyno prone.

 

[210LBS]

Listen alot of people on here like prohormones. I've done a few cycles when I was getting my toes wet like 1/4 andro (specifically andro fhe giant and Mandro) and dmz. There were some benefits especially the dmz but it's not what I had hoped. Maybe I built it up to much in my mind but the result of these cycles(which were done properly with a cycle support, pct, serm, dmaa) was my test was in the trash still about 4 months later.
I went to the doc got tested and my total test was 86. Before the cycles it was in the 700s. I'm currently on test cyp and will do Winny once a year or so.
These substances(prohormones) aren't researched, mostly based on bro science, change just to skirt the law, and aren't focused on consumers health. Real aas have been around for decades are studied and controlled.
What quality assurance is there that your bottle is even really 1/4 andro? Because some guy on the internet says he took it and blew up. It's just really snake oil to me and the limited benefits(in my opinion) don't outweigh the risk.

Just do steroids. It's cheaper, works better, and has been studied.
Sure your breaking the law but it's worth it for your health.
I'm open to hearing anyone elses opinions.

Kind of a depressing post but I respect it. Truth is, you really don't know what you're buying with any supplements anymore. That's why I take it very serious when someone gets bloods done before/after/during the use of a product. It's still not 100% effective but it's something. I haven't done PHs yet but the appeal is that they are supposedly "milder" and you also don't have to pin.

 

[InItForGainz]

Maybe I built it up to much in my mind but the result of these cycles(which were done properly with a cycle support, pct, serm, dmaa) was my test was in the trash still about 4 months later.
I went to the doc got tested and my total test was 86. Before the cycles it was in the 700s. I'm currently on test cyp and will do Winny once a year or so.

Just do steroids. It's cheaper, works better, and has been studied.
Sure your breaking the law but it's worth it for your health.
I'm open to hearing anyone elses opinions.

I like PH's for the ease of use, no pinning required, no need to purchase or dispose of needles and for the legality obviously.
I also feel safer with "supplements", there's so much tainted gear and dodgy dealers out there that you just don't know what's legit or who to trust.
But, that's just my opinion/take on it.

I've had good results with PH's and I do think that they are worth it when you run them properly and with a full SERM based PCT. My baseline testosterone levels actually increased after my last cycle and PCT! My 2 week pre cycle bloods were 168ng/dl and my 4 weeks post PCT bloods were 206ng/dl. I know that's not a crazy increase but I'll take it!

 

[Jokers]

Alot reviews on this stack not only here but around the internet most seem positive. Being in the 2nd week strength gains are there.

 

[Rndmher]

Yeah that's true with they dodgy dealers or trying to buy online. Personally what Ive had friends do was went to a dr said they have basically every low test side effect andget a test ordered. Then you get sh*t faced the night before and don't sleep your levels will be in the trash. Then use it as a cycle not actual trt.


Also I know phs say it's a supplement on it but it's not it's really weak steroids with a crappy conversion process. Your body does not need it and your not supplementing anything.

It's weak steroids with more side effects and marginal results.

 

[Rndmher]

And maybe I'm weird but I like shooting steroids in my butt ha ha because I know the peak I'm gonna get from it a day or two later.

 

[InItForGainz]

Also I know phs say it's a supplement on it but it's not it's really weak steroids with a crappy conversion process. Your body does not need it and your not supplementing anything.

It's weak steroids with more side effects and marginal results.

That's why I wrote it in as "supplements".

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Listen alot of people on here like prohormones. I've done a few cycles when I was getting my toes wet like 1/4 andro (specifically andro fhe giant and Mandro) and dmz. There were some benefits especially the dmz but it's not what I had hoped. Maybe I built it up to much in my mind but the result of these cycles(which were done properly with a cycle support, pct, serm, dmaa) was my test was in the trash still about 4 months later.
I went to the doc got tested and my total test was 86. Before the cycles it was in the 700s. I'm currently on test cyp and will do Winny once a year or so.
These substances(prohormones) aren't researched, mostly based on bro science, change just to skirt the law, and aren't focused on consumers health. Real aas have been around for decades are studied and controlled.
What quality assurance is there that your bottle is even really 1/4 andro? Because some guy on the internet says he took it and blew up. It's just really snake oil to me and the limited benefits(in my opinion) don't outweigh the risk.

Just do steroids. It's cheaper, works better, and has been studied.
Sure your breaking the law but it's worth it for your health.
I'm open to hearing anyone elses opinions.

1dhea has been studied, on athletes.

Some basic human psychology worth noting here:

"I tried compound X and it did sh1t; therefore, I shall pronounce compound X as worthless universally."

Not exactly logical. But see it here every now and then, with andros and SARMs in particular.

 

[Rndmher]

1dhea has been studied, on athletes.

Some basic human psychology worth noting here:

"I tried compound X and it did sh1t; therefore, I shall pronounce compound X as worthless universally."

Not exactly logical. But see it here every now and then, with andros and SARMs in particular.

It wasn't substance x it was x,y,&z. I've done epi, andro, dmz, and a few others. I did do I cycle of sup3r-1. I wanted ph and designer steroids to work but they don't more than minimally. Know anyone who's huge or a bodybuilder that's like "yeah I cycle ph's." It doesn't happen, it's all steroids.

And I don't mean this as an attack but I'm not selling anything here, your a Olympus labs rep, a pH supplier, you do benefit because people use prohormones. Again not trying to cheapen your opinion, just making sure people understand the source.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

It wasn't substance x it was x,y,&z. I've done epi, andro, dmz, and a few others. I did do I cycle of sup3r-1. I wanted ph and designer steroids to work but they don't more than minimally. Know anyone who's huge or a bodybuilder that's like "yeah I cycle ph's." It doesn't happen, it's all steroids.

And I don't mean this as an attack but I'm not selling anything here, your a Olympus labs rep, a pH supplier, you do benefit because people use prohormones. Again not trying to cheapen your opinion, just making sure people understand the source.

Of course for the average Joe if they want to get huge, huge as in the way you are implying, they will need to cycle steroids. I dont think anyone is suggesting otherwise.

But alot of guys look at andros as a step up from natty supps like PA and the like, because they are. There are user reports on this very forum page indicating that. And again, there is a study on 1dhea demonstrating that too. For various reasons, some people are just not prepared to pin or use methyls.

Yes I am a rep for a company that sells andros. But Id like to think I present a reasonable, low hype message regarding these products. If you can point me to any post or claim Ive made that you feel is ureasonable in its portrayal of these compounds, at the very least Ill defend my claim, or retract it.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

It wasn't substance x it was x,y,&z. I've done epi, andro, dmz, and a few others. I did do I cycle of sup3r-1. I wanted ph and designer steroids to work but they don't more than minimally. Know anyone who's huge or a bodybuilder that's like "yeah I cycle ph's." It doesn't happen, it's all steroids.

And I don't mean this as an attack but I'm not selling anything here, your a Olympus labs rep, a pH supplier, you do benefit because people use prohormones. Again not trying to cheapen your opinion, just making sure people understand the source.

This argument is moot, because you are talking as if getting huge is the only goal people aspire to. I mean cycling 1-andro for 8 weeks and making 6 months worth of natural progression is highly desirable for me personally an im sure for many others who don't want to use legit AAS.

 

[The Express 42]

Making some great points Rndmher the reason I'm running my first test cycle coming up in march

 

[Rndmher]

This argument is moot, because you are talking as if getting huge is the only goal people aspire to. I mean cycling 1-andro for 8 weeks and making 6 months worth of natural progression is highly desirable for me personally an im sure for many others who don't want to use legit AAS.

Is your goal isn't to get huge...
1. Why are you on this website.
2. Why would you even bother running a cycle of ph?

If your using prohormones let's not convolute it, you are no longer natural. You added an outside source in order manipulate your hormones.

Prohormones are dangerous and your basically saying your doing it just to save yourself 6months. You understand how most of these companies operate right? These substances exist in a legal grey area and aren't typically produced in America. They are made in labs in China typically, then imported. If you get a good company they'll test what they receive to ensure it is the product they advertise, some don't. But they may have additive with God knows what. It's a huge gamble on some Chinese dude who's basically operating and illegal lab.

I'd love to hear a lab who's operating a lab actually manufacturing this is the u.s. and not just mixing it up and putting it in capsules here. I think more importantly the fda and probably dea would live to hear it.

There's just no quality control like I put the needle in my butt and k ow I'm putting 400 of test cyp in myself. And if your aim isn't to get huge I could still just improve my lbm on that.

 

[Rndmher]

Making some great points Rndmher the reason I'm running my first test cycle coming up in march

Good luck brother. You get it from a reputable source and made in the us?

 

[NoAddedHmones]

Is your goal isn't to get huge...
1. Why are you on this website.
2. Why would you even bother running a cycle of ph?

If your using prohormones let's not convolute it, you are no longer natural. You added an outside source in order manipulate your hormones.

Prohormones are dangerous and your basically saying your doing it just to save yourself 6months. You understand how most of these companies operate right? These substances exist in a legal grey area and aren't typically produced in America. They are made in labs in China typically, then imported. If you get a good company they'll test what they receive to ensure it is the product they advertise, some don't. But they may have additive with God knows what. It's a huge gamble on some Chinese dude who's basically operating and illegal lab.

I'd love to hear a lab who's operating a lab actually manufacturing this is the u.s. and not just mixing it up and putting it in capsules here. I think more importantly the fda and probably dea would live to hear it.

There's just no quality control like I put the needle in my butt and k ow I'm putting 400 of test cyp in myself. And if your aim isn't to get huge I could still just improve my lbm on that.

Yeah so again you are polarising things. Alot of people don't like to jab. I don't want to get huge, i want to be strong af and aesthetic, see a different person with a different goal. Amazing.

Ps you dont need to explain how the industry operates. I may have a little bit of experience behind the scenes lol.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

If we are going to have a semi decent discussion about prohormones, we cant always make sweeping generalisations.

Not all PH are equivalent, obviously.

In what respect would you consider andros "dangerous", Rndmher?

 

[Rndmher]

Yeah so again you are polarising things. Alot of people don't like to jab. I don't want to get huge, i want to be strong af and aesthetic, see a different person with a different goal. Amazing.

Ps you dont need to explain how the industry operates. I may have a little bit of experience behind the scenes lol.

And your ok with what goes on behind the senses with how it's manufactured? Confident enough to put it in your body?

 

[InItForGainz]

This argument is moot, because you are talking as if getting huge is the only goal people aspire to. I mean cycling 1-andro for 8 weeks and making 6 months worth of natural progression is highly desirable for me personally an im sure for many others who don't want to use legit AAS.

This!
For me at the moment, I'd rather do two or three PH+PCT cycles and make 18 months worth of natural gains in 12 months than go on AAS. I think there's a lot less risk and hassle involved, in both health and legality aspects.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

And your ok with what goes on behind the senses with how it's manufactured? Confident enough to put it in your body?

Same can be said about ugl oils you can inject. Besides if we are talking about andros, the manufacturing is as legit as it gets from start to finish.

 

[Rndmher]

If we are going to have a semi decent discussion about prohormones, we cant always make sweeping generalisations.

Not all PH are equivalent, obviously.

In what respect would you consider andros "dangerous", Rndmher?

You get 100% pure unadulterated 1 or 4 andro there's nothing really inherently bad about it BUT your more likely to experience steroid like side effects, I.e. gyno, testicle shrinkage, ect. either during or after the cycle; and not have as good results had you used aas.

But the bigger problem is sourcing 100% pure unadulterated Andros. Which is next to impossible in this industry.

Lets have an honest frank discussion; where does Olympus get their Andros from (like country wise not a name of a supplier) and what kind of testing do you guys to to ensure that it is Andros and there's nothing else in it?

 

[NewAgeMayan]

We get our andros from Hitech Pharmaceuticals. They are supposedly one of the most highly monitered/fda audited supp companies in the industry. Nothing dodgy can go on there.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

You get 100% pure unadulterated 1 or 4 andro there's nothing really inherently bad about it BUT your more likely to experience steroid like side effects, I.e. gyno, testicle shrinkage, ect. either during or after the cycle; and not have as good results had you used aas.

But the bigger problem is sourcing 100% pure unadulterated Andros. Which is next to impossible in this industry.

Lets have an honest frank discussion; where does Olympus get their Andros from (like country wise not a name of a supplier) and what kind of testing do you guys to to ensure that it is Andros and there's nothing else in it?

Haha i thought we were doing just that, both being honest and frank with our views.. In reality, while what sides effects a person gets from any given compound is quite individualised and will vary greatly. BUT, there is a correlation between potency of a given compound and the potential side effects someone may get, Ie the stronger the effects of the hormone, the stronger the potential sides will be..

And as NAM pointed out, Hi Tech own the patents on the andros and manufacture them in a very high quality facility.

 

[Rndmher]

We get our andros from Hitech Pharmaceuticals. They are supposedly one of the most highly monitered/fda audited supp companies in the industry. Nothing dodgy can go on there.

I looked it up it looks like it out of Georgia and appears legit and that's really awesome if they are fda monitored and there's no worries, it really seems as good as it could be.
But it still comes but to the sides and results with it

I'm sorry op ha ha this all started because you wanted to know a pct, kinda got hijacked.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Generally speaking, with the andros, typical sides would be:

-lipid impact
-hormonal impact

Anything else would be atypical.

 

[Rndmher]

Generally speaking, with the andros, typical sides would be:

-lipid impact
-hormonal impact

Anything else would be atypical.

I would agree with that, but the hormonal imbalance caused by them can lead to other things. It's well documented 4 andro has a high conversion rate to estrogen. While under a broad term that is a hormonal imbalance but specifically that can cause gynecomastia if severe enough(which it was in my experience). Also it's caused test shutdown(also a hormonal imbalance in a board term). Decrease normal lipid levels are also typical.
But you said anything else is a typical,
Prohormones as a category put undue stress on your liver and kidneys which could cause other problems but SHOULD return to normal after cycle but could cause issues.

 

[The Express 42]

Rndmher I have been looking around, haven't made my purchase yet. If you have any suggestions I would greatly appreciate a PM

 

[Rndmher]

Rndmher I have been looking around, haven't made my purchase yet. If you have any suggestions I would greatly appreciate a PM

I pmd you awhile ago