Estrogen Help

[PlateHead45]

Hey guys,

Thought I'd start a quick thread based on my situation. Need some advising. Currently on my first test e cycle at 500mg/wk.

I'm currently on week 4. I am on Paxil 40mg which increases serotonin in the brain. I've noticed after I started taking test which increases dopamine that my Paxil isn't working as well and I'm getting almost like withdrawal symptoms or symptoms like if I would have missed a dose.

When I took my AI which was Aromasin, it made it even worse, because lowering e2 actually lowers serotonin.

So I stopped taking any AI and then also increased my Paxil dosage to 60mg a day(80mg is highest dose recommended).

So I've felt pretty good and balanced the last few days.

Now today I have itchy/sore/tender nipples that are erect and can start to feel a lump. Is this possible already after only 3 weeks into a test e only cycle? Also, my E2 was <5 when I started!!!

Now I'm wondering if I should get back on the Sin at like 6.25mg eod and then maybe increase my Paxil to 80mg to help with the reduction of estrogen/serotonin and increase of test/dopamine?

I also can't take Nolva because it interfers with Paxil.. I know right.. look it up.. So all I have is clomid and Sin.

I'm actually thinking of taking both a low dose of Sin and Clomid. The clomid could help with the breast tissue slightly and possibly help with estrogen related physiological issues.. Then the low dose of Sin will keep the e2 blood levels a little lower.

Anyone with some knowledge on this would be greatly appreciated.. Just really trying to find the right balance between Test/E2 and now adding in my serotonin levels into the mix because of my SSRI.

 

[kelso312]

You should not adjust your AD dosage without talking to your dr. So step one would be at least telling your dr that you did that.

Have you had bloodwork? How do you know your E2 is off?

One of Paxils freaky wide effects is gyno. My guess is that the gyno is caused by to much serotonin too little dopamine and excess prolactin.

Serotonin and dopamine - like you said have an inverse relationship in the brain, the same is true for Dopamine and Prolactin.

Caber or Prami will address this and if you really do not want to have gyno, I would reevaluate the risks of taking Nolva with Paxil at least until the gyno subsides.

I would say the best thing to do is to come clean with with dr., but chances are that you won't do that. I do not blame you. At least you should lower your dose of Paxil back to what it was when it started and tell someone close to you if you are feeling 'off'.

Stop worrying so much about balancing Serotonin and Dopamine. Depression is not a 1:1 chemical tradeoff. Test has antidepressant actions in the brain.

Be careful.

 

[PlateHead45]

I had my E2 checked pre cycle. It was at <5 which is very low. Now I'm getting itchy tender nips 3 weeks into a test run. Wondering if it's just because my e2 "increasing", but not actually at a "high" level.. idk what to do.. the test is increasing my dopamine which is making my ssri less effective.. which is why I increased it lol.. I've been on Paxil for 15 years..

 

[PlateHead45]

I guess I could leave it at 40mg n take some tryptophan which is a precursor to serotonin.. but then I gotta worry about serotonin syndrome.. smh.. idk

 

[PlateHead45]

Only reason I'm doing any of this is because I'm getting side effects(dizzy/anxiety/brain zaps) as if I missed a dose or 2 of Paxil, which is why I think this huge increase of dopamine is throwing it off..

 

[kelso312]

Only reason I'm doing any of this is because I'm getting side effects(dizzy/anxiety/brain zaps) as if I missed a dose or 2 of Paxil, which is why I think this huge increase of dopamine is throwing it off..

If you are experiencing gyno you are most likely low on dopamine and high on prolactin.

I have heard of brain zaps before. Don't add tryptophan. That will increase seratonin which you always have increased the strength of the available supply by increasing your Paxil dose.

Could the zaps be related to electrolytes ? MAgnesium? Maybe ? It has been a while since I read up about those. I think it had to do with sodium or calcium channels and less to do with dopamine. Just a guess.

Basically you need to raise dopamine to oppose prolactin which could be causing your gyno. OTC I guess you could try tyrosine or l-dopa.

I would reasearch alternate causes of brain zaps and supplement - adjust Paxil accordingly ( lower it ), run a low dose of nolva to see if it corrects the gyno, run caber / prami if unsuccessful.

 

[PlateHead45]

Why would I be even lower on dopamine and higher on prolactin when dosing 500mg/wk of Test e lol.. I've been on Paxil 15 years..

 

[kelso312]

You are adding Test to you body. The increase in Test changes the balance of T/E which can influence Prolactin levels.

Without bloods and a medical degree it is impossible to tell if the gyno symptms you experiencing are related to elevated prolactin or elevated estrogen levels or both.

You would be lower on dopamine is your prolactin is high. Dumping more serotonin via Tryptophan in your system when you are messing with an SSRI dose is probably not a good idea moodwise and will not address the gyno symptoms you are experiencing. If anything the increase in serotonin will negatively effect the dopamine levels in the brain further increasing prolactin.

After looking at Paxils profile, it has a pretty big impact on dopamine compared to other SSRIs so I am guessing the gyno is related to excessive aromatase.

Take your aromasin and order some caber/prami just in case. Or if you are coming off paxil anyway just jump on a low dose of nolva.

 

[Woody]

So.... you're running a cycle but you can't take any cycle supports - such as Nolva or aromasin - because it interferes with your Ssri.. yet you still decided to run the cycle....

If you are having gyno issues - jump on Nolva and/or Aromasin. Clomid won't do anything for gyno. As far as interference with your SSRI - that's best left to a real doc

 

[rascal14]

Look into Raloxifene instead of Nolva.

 

[CatSnake]

Look into Raloxifene instead of Nolva.

agreed.

I think Ralox id better on cycle than nolva anyway, as it doesn't increase testosterone or E2 as much, and is slightly more effective for gyno.

another on-cycle option for the gyno would be andractim (a DHT based topical cream).

and finally, PlateHead45, when do you take Paxil? and when do you take aromasin? personally, I get very drowsy from aromasin, which is apparently due to the rapid reduction in estrogen (estrogen actually potentiates exciatory hormones, FWIW). therefore, I take all AI's and SERMs at night...

 

[PlateHead45]

Interesting stuff guys. I'm not even taking an AI right now based on the anxiety attack I had the other night and then figured I couldn't of increased my e2 that high in only 3 weeks especially starting at <5 levels.. I'm going to start taking 6.25mg eod and then keep increasing if need be. I'll also look into Raloxifene.

I usually take my SSRI around lunch.

Idk, I just can't seem to get **** straight. I worked out tonight and again I got very short of breath and dizzy and then anxiety came shortly after that. I never used to get this shortness of breath/dizziness on prior cycles of orals.. Idk, just very frustrating.
Woody , I never knew that estrogen and serotonin were correlated. So I had no idea that aromasin taking estrogen to a lower level would do the same thing to my SSRI..

There's a few things I'm trying to correct. I want to be able to take an AI to help with estrogen control and gyno, but I don't want it to cause crazy anxiety either because of it messing with my serotonin levels and/or SSRI. I keep getting dizzy spells along with shortness of breath that I can't stand..

 

[kelso312]

Hormones in the body are all interrelated to each other. Testosterone and estrogen levels can effect thyroid function which can impact mood.

So think of it like this: You have your baseline mood that is being controlled by Paxil. It has been the same for years. The sudden change in hormones impacts the thyroid and increases the levels of neurotransmitters in your brain. Now your optimal Paxil dosage is not optimal anymore. Your baseline levels have changed. Because the levels changed so quickly it is like you are taking too much of the drug and are now going to be hit with the side effects which includes gyno.

The fact that your e2 started so low and that you are getting anxiety from dosing an AI might mean that your estrogen levels are not causing the gyno and it could be prolactin related.

Get bloodwork done immediately and tell someone that is close to you that this is happening in case you experience other psychological effects.

 

[PlateHead45]

So you think it's worth getting my bloods done now rather than waiting a few weeks? I was going to do Pre Cycle/6weeks/Post..

Should I just do it at the 4 week mark to see what's going on?

 

[kelso312]

Depends on what the gyno is doing. If I was experiencing gyno I would probably be really proactive about it. Since your hands are tied with what you can and cannot take it might be a good idea. You could confirm that your e2 levels are fine and that the reason that you were experiencing anxiety when dosing aromasin is because your levels are already low and you could try to figure out if prolactin is the guilty party.

In other words it would be better to know exactly what levels are out of whack that could be responsible for gyno so that you can take care of it properly. Otherwise you are just throwing drugs at a problem hoping that one will take care of it and not really knowing which one is working.

Some people would just say ok I have gyno symptoms, I am going to take nolva and caber/prami to cover my bases.

If it is your first cycle and you have gyno symptoms that could be a result of an interaction with your AD, verifying what is causing them will give you really good feedback that you will be able to apply in the future if you run into this problem.

The fact that all you are running is Test E and you hit this snag is a reason in itself to get them checked. Plus its gyno... I would err on the side of caution especially since you are already feeling mood issues. Mood issue plus gyno = figure out what is going on. I have never found myself in a situation like that but that is what I would do.

 

[PlateHead45]

Nice response, well put. The only other thing that is happening to me is bad shortness of breath at the gym with dizziness. What could be causing this? BP is only slightly elevated. My guess was water retention which would be another sign of high e2..

 

[kelso312]

Nice response, well put. The only other thing that is happening to me is bad shortness of breath at the gym with dizziness. What could be causing this? BP is only slightly elevated. My guess was water retention which would be another sign of high e2..

E2 is a tough one. Some of the effects of high E2 are the same as low E2. So figuring out what it is based on side effects is hit or miss.

I have experienced high E2 and experienced a lot of water retention around the torso /midsection, elevated bp, and low energy. I speculated about the levels based on the sides and then got a confirmation with bloodwork.

The fact that Paxil is in the equation is another curve ball. Especially since the dose went up then dropped back down so quickly. Those side effect lists for ADs (any medication pretty much) probably include high BP and dizziness. I would go easy at the gym for a few days, get bloodwork done, and keep your Paxil dosage consistent.