Discussion: TESTostrone shouldn't be in every cycle?

CEDeoudes59

CEDeoudes59

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Discussion: TESTosterone shouldn't be in every cycle?

Obviously taken from the KMart of Forums:


Here at Bodybuilding.com, it is a RELIGIOUS belief that TEST must be the BASE of every cycle. THIS IS INCORRECT.

Why NOT to incorporate TEST into EVERY CYCLE:

1.) Testosterone has a PROFOUND impact on your HPTA--CLINICALLY demonstrated to be MORE disturbing to the endocrine system than other anabolics when used alone. Testosterone supplementation reduced the body's own testosterone production by nearly 100%, while even Dianabol used in higher dosages, only caused a 60% decrease in testosterone production. Therefore, using a moderate testosterone dosage while ON A CYCLE of a mild anabolic such as primobolan or oxandrolone (even EQ) to COMBAT lack of LIBIDO, ect, will only make it HARDER to maintain your gains POST CYCLE. You are eliminating sexual sides, but doing so at the cost of your NATURAL TEST PRODUCTION.

2.) Testosterone has BAD SIDE EFFECTS IF YOU ARE GENETICALLY PREDISPOSED. Hairloss, Gyno, and prostate difficulties are high risks for many people on this board. Some are able to do test without much negative effect, while others are DEVESTATED by side effects.

3.) QUALITY OF GAINS. Testosterone causes a RAPID increase in body mass, much of which is lost upon cessation of cycle. This is due largely to the fact that testosterone aromatizes VERY easily, causing noticable water retention in most individuals. Using non-aromatizing steroids ELIMINATES the possibility of exposing your body to SUPRAPHYSIOLOGICAL levels of ESTROGEN, and it also reduces the amount of weight you lose post cycle. Furthermore, because of HOW MUCH TESTOSTERONE affects the HPTA, maintaining gains POST cycle can be very difficult, even with clomid therapy.

Any questions?
 
CEDeoudes59

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3.) QUALITY OF GAINS. Testosterone causes a RAPID increase in body mass, much of which is lost upon cessation of cycle. This is due largely to the fact that testosterone aromatizes VERY easily, causing noticable water retention in most individuals.
Any questions?

This is the one that struck me. Losing gains? As opposed to what? Anavar? Any compound that raises estrogen will make you shed water in the end. You don't lose the gains, they were never there to begin with (it was water).
 
kwyckemynd00

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Sooo....is the author making the case that some exotic steroids are going to be better alternatives than test?

And, am I mistaken, or did it sound like he was emphasizing dbol only cycles over test only? I mean, if he wants to talk about sides, dbol can be pretty damn bad on hair, horrible bloat, you'll probably keep a very small fraction of your gains w/out another AAS, it's hard on the liver, bad for cholesterol, etc.

Oh boy...I just don't know what to say to anybody who talks **** on Test :D
 
Skye

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He does have a few points in there although I am not agreeing wiht the supression levels. all gear is supresive to some extent. Also the water arguement is easily adressed by AIs. with test or dbol. However I do think that people often over look the option of running alturitive cycles, many of which are better give goals or differnt verabls. Also test only cycles are really not the best choice healthwise. (lipids, weakening the conective tissues, and so one)
 
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bro's this sounds like a thread from (the mind of ross) over on steroid .com . there he wrote in all CAPITAL LETTERS. in the end he is not welcome there anymore. Are you here ross? this dude is a weirdo imo so watch yourselfs. peace!
 
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glenihan

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lol ... trust me deoudes isn't a weirdo or someone we need to watch ourselves with
 
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Matthew D

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Skye, I would also argue that you can control a lot of the bloat with diet before the introduction of IA's. As for this tool that wrote the article, he is in need of doing a ton more research before he starts writing articles
 
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Cardinal

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The only part I semi-agree with is number two. However, even if you are predisposed, most of the Test side effects are so easily controlled if you know what to look for. Hair loss for me has been the toughest to get a grip on. I don't think it will always be that way though.
 
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hemidog

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I am not saying that CEDeouces59 is a weirdo. I am saying the dude that posted it on steroid is though and he is banned over there , that is all
 
Syr

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The only part I semi-agree with is number two. However, even if you are predisposed, most of the Test side effects are so easily controlled if you know what to look for. Hair loss for me has been the toughest to get a grip on. I don't think it will always be that way though.
Yes and this is the reason why I dont use test and i'm scared of trying. But a very low dose to support a suppressive AAS is almost a need. The use of HCG and other ancillaries demolish his other points.
 
CEDeoudes59

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Yes and this is the reason why I dont use test and i'm scared of trying. But a very low dose to support a suppressive AAS is almost a need. The use of HCG and other ancillaries demolish his other points.
you've used 4-ad right? I'd think hairloss from test and test derivatives would be easier to control (with finasteride) versus compounds like 1-test.
 
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Matthew D

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Syr, the hair loss is a genetics thing... go look at your mother's brothers.. that should give you a bit of a clue. and like CE just stated test has got to be easier to control than 1-Test
 
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size

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My response is yawn, and do not waste my time with this nonsense. Testosterone is used commonly because it is one of the safest products that one can use. This is just nonsense, any and every drug has negatives about it.
 
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CarryOnTheChaos

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i'll have to concur with size...you guys can believe what you please but I LOVE TEST and I plan on sticking with it. I have the best results with it, the least sides, and easiest recoveries when test is involved in my cycles...and I dont ever plan on running a cycle without test.

regards,
COTC
 
CEDeoudes59

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good dog.
 
kwyckemynd00

kwyckemynd00

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good dog.
Okay, okay....maybe you're nto that weird....but, you don't have to get so mad at me about it! *gosh*

Deo knows how I feel about Test...I don't even feel I have to respond to this thread. Test is like the fillet mignon of AAS.....:D
 
milwood

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My response is yawn, and do not waste my time with this nonsense. Testosterone is used commonly because it is one of the safest products that one can use. This is just nonsense, any and every drug has negatives about it.
I agree with size, and think Deoudes is a wierdo.



....kidding only, as always. CED is one of the more insightful and helpful members here. Props to you Deoudes. Member o' the month material fo' sho'!!!

much respect for the Tillman tribute, too!
 
CEDeoudes59

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I agree with size, and think Deoudes is a wierdo.



....kidding only, as always. CED is one of the more insightful and helpful members here. Props to you Deoudes. Member o' the month material fo' sho'!!!

much respect for the Tillman tribute, too!
thanks, you too. much respect to milwood. but you must have only seen my good posts, I have hopefully deleted all my BB.com newbie-esque posts.

"I have been on M1T for 10 days, and I am only up 1.5 pounds, do I need to lift weights on this or something?"

... wait that wasn't me.
 
CEDeoudes59

CEDeoudes59

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Okay, okay....maybe you're nto that weird....but, you don't have to get so mad at me about it! *gosh*

Deo knows how I feel about Test...I don't even feel I have to respond to this thread. Test is like the fillet mignon of AAS.....:D
EQ must be the NY Strip then. :whip:
 
Syr

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Syr, the hair loss is a genetics thing... go look at your mother's brothers.. that should give you a bit of a clue. and like CE just stated test has got to be easier to control than 1-Test
MPB is genetic yes, and I dont have that problem (my mother hasnt got any brother, but there is no big baldness in my family tree).
Anyway, my concern is not that: I had a protatitis and I have a mild BPH, which put me at a risk when using anything that increase or convert to DHT. I take saw palmetto all year round, with short breaks and I'm doing extremely well.

My left brain says get dutasteride and tweak with low doses of test (i would do daily dermal applications as a start).
But my right brain thinks that I could f*ck things if i go with very androgenic steroids. When I was planning a recomp cycle for this summer I had to exclude tren only for being very androgenic.

When I used 1T/4AD I had some "annoyances", but nothing major. I know that 4AD does not compare to real Test for either conversion to DHT and estrogenicity. A lot is dose-dependent and I wish i knew the safe dose for me with the proper ancillaries. Pubmed didnt help much so far.

' off to the gym :)
 
Syr

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you've used 4-ad right? I'd think hairloss from test and test derivatives would be easier to control (with finasteride) versus compounds like 1-test.
Are you sure about this? Do you really think that 1T would cause an increase of DHT superior that one of a mid-low dose of test?

Note also that for me, considering gains, sides and the annoyance of twice daily applications, I would not repeat such a cycle.
I can tell that a high dose of saw palmetto (which is equivalent to an average finasteride dosage) didnt control all the DHT induced sides.

If and when i'm gonna use another very androgenic compound, I need to put my hands on dutasteride first.
Please see also my reply to MatthewD.
 
CEDeoudes59

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I tend to agree with your right brain, it's not like your hair will completely fall out. And it will likily regrow. Based on my experience (except on the hairline completely)
 
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w_llewellyn

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Obviously taken from the KMart of Forums:

Here at Bodybuilding.com, it is a RELIGIOUS belief that TEST must be the BASE of every cycle. THIS IS INCORRECT.

Why NOT to incorporate TEST into EVERY CYCLE:

1.) Testosterone has a PROFOUND impact on your HPTA--CLINICALLY demonstrated to be MORE disturbing to the endocrine system than other anabolics when used alone. Testosterone supplementation reduced the body's own testosterone production by nearly 100%, while even Dianabol used in higher dosages, only caused a 60% decrease in testosterone production. Therefore, using a moderate testosterone dosage while ON A CYCLE of a mild anabolic such as primobolan or oxandrolone (even EQ) to COMBAT lack of LIBIDO, ect, will only make it HARDER to maintain your gains POST CYCLE. You are eliminating sexual sides, but doing so at the cost of your NATURAL TEST PRODUCTION.

2.) Testosterone has BAD SIDE EFFECTS IF YOU ARE GENETICALLY PREDISPOSED. Hairloss, Gyno, and prostate difficulties are high risks for many people on this board. Some are able to do test without much negative effect, while others are DEVESTATED by side effects.

3.) QUALITY OF GAINS. Testosterone causes a RAPID increase in body mass, much of which is lost upon cessation of cycle. This is due largely to the fact that testosterone aromatizes VERY easily, causing noticable water retention in most individuals. Using non-aromatizing steroids ELIMINATES the possibility of exposing your body to SUPRAPHYSIOLOGICAL levels of ESTROGEN, and it also reduces the amount of weight you lose post cycle. Furthermore, because of HOW MUCH TESTOSTERONE affects the HPTA, maintaining gains POST cycle can be very difficult, even with clomid therapy.

Any questions?
My .02

1) Every time you are taking enough steroid to build muscle your are suppressing T. The "comfort zone" of great gains and no T-suppression doesn't exhist.

2) Sort of true, but overblown too. The estrogenic side effects are largely "cosmetic" and controllable, and E2 conversion makes T much safer than most steroids in regards to lipid profiles.

3) Water retention is lost because it is water retention. If you are mistaking that for gains, well, you are making a mistake. Estrogen also helps build muscle too, and the "crash" phenomenon happens with all anabolics. It just seems worse with TEST because of the water.
 
Syr

Syr

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I tend to agree with your right brain, it's not like your hair will completely fall out. And it will likily regrow. Based on my experience (except on the hairline completely)
Sorry bud, but i said that i have NO hair problem. My problems are prostate related (and mild i have to say).
 

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