My first 1/4/Epi andro log (OL)

[Vikingbro]

Hey all, I have decided to do a log of my second ever cycle with the above mentioned compounds. My first cycle was ostarine (OL) 20 mg for 8 weeks then 25mg for another 2. I loved this cycle as a recomp. I stayed exactly the same weight but lost 4% BF, added a little muscle and recomped nicely considering I wasn't spot on with my calorie intake. This cycle will be different though. I have been patient with this during my PCT and researched hard with everything from the compounds, timing, support supps, meal planning including detailed macros for a lean bulk so I don't balloon. I only have to look at a donut and I put weight on! It is for this reason that I transitioned to Keto nearly 2 years ago. During this cycle though I will modify this and go lower on the fats but the only fats I will take will be healthy ones. My log will not be super detailed in regards to what workouts I will do. It will however state changing body measurements, general feelings, changes I may need to make etc etc. So here are my starting stats-

Male 37 years

Height 5 foot 10. Not that this will change!

Weight 84Kg or for my American brothers 185 pounds.

BF 15.8%

I will be running- all compounds 10 weeks

1 andro 3x day 7AM 3PM 11PM

4 andro 2x day 7AM 11PM ( I will add in a 3PM dose after 3 weeks if I don't have symptoms of estrogen conversion/gyno)

Epi andro 2 x day PWO

Follidrone 2.0 x 3 a day starting week 3 until my 2 bottles run out

OL ostarine 5mg a day for 10 weeks. I have decided to add this small dose in as I felt it really helped with my tendinitis and shoulder following a shoulder operation last year. It is for this reason only

Support supps- fish oil, garlic, creatine, multi vits, glutamine, whey isolate, casein, L Carnitine, betaine anhydrous

arm1care pro throughout and into PCT as directed on bottle. I started arm1care pro a week ago to help my body adjust to any possible blood pressure changes etc. I also have a blood pressure monitor and will take 3 x daily readings.

PCT-

I have clomid, Nolva, aromasin all pharma and will likely do a split Nolva/clomid combo as when I tried clomid after my ostarine cycle I had unbearable depression and switched to Nolva which was a dream.

Nolva 10/10/5/5
Clomid 25/25/12.5/12.5
Exemestane 0/0/25eod/12.5eod/12.5eod/6eod/6eod

Cardarine/GW 20 mg a day for 4 weeks

SNS reduce XT 2 weeks into PCT for 4 weeks

I was going to start this cycle 2 weeks ago but had the flu so am starting in a few days. This cycle is not set in stone yet as I hope a few of my brothers on here who know much more than me will chime in with recommendations/ alterations. Thanks to you all who have taken the time to read this and who express an interest in seeing the results. I will post before and after pics too if you wish.

Thanks again and please feel free to help adjust the above if you see anything that's not good.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Looks really good man. Anything planned for after PCT? It can be a pretty decisive period as well, as you come off all the drugs.

 

[Vikingbro]

Looks really good man. Anything planned for after PCT? It can be a pretty decisive period as well, as you come off all the drugs.

I'm open to suggestions bro as far as natty supps go as I will most probably purchase a load half way through my cycle ready for after PCT. Although I would like to stay as natural as possible as I would like to bring my body back to harmony as quickly as possible.

 

[TIG3R54]

I would personally save the follidrone for pct to keep strength up

 

[NewAgeMayan]

I'm open to suggestions bro as far as natty supps go as I will most probably purchase a load half way through my cycle ready for after PCT. Although I would like to stay as natural as possible as I would like to bring my body back to harmony as quickly as possible.

For sure. Man, heaps of options. OL stuff Id recommend looking into:

Or1gin
EP1C UN TD
Tr1umph

Evomuse BMP and supernova

...they'd be my first picks but loads more

 

[Vikingbro]

For sure. Man, heaps of options. OL stuff Id recommend looking into:

Or1gin
EP1C UN TD
Tr1umph

Evomuse BMP and supernova

...they'd be my first picks but loads more

Thanks mate I will do my research on these

 

[Vikingbro]

I would personally save the follidrone for pct to keep strength up

Or just buy more and use it into PCT?

 

[TIG3R54]

That would work too.....personally I think the PHs would kinda negate the follidrone so you wouldn't notice much from it running it during your cycle

 

[Vikingbro]

That would work too.....personally I think the PHs would kinda negate the follidrone so you wouldn't notice much from it running it during your cycle

I will look into this. Thanks

 

[sespress]

You have the exemestane on hand in case of gyno? 4-andro irritated me in that regard, however I am higher on bf%. Just grab a stronger AI than arm1care has right now, don't wait to stock it until PCT or an issue occurs.

 

[Vikingbro]

You have the exemestane on hand in case of gyno? 4-andro irritated me in that regard, however I am higher on bf%. Just grab a stronger AI than arm1care has right now, don't wait to stock it until PCT or an issue occurs.

Of course. I have stacks of aromasin on hand. I also have SNS inhibit e which I was tempted to start dosing from day one as a precaution. What you think?

 

[sespress]

Of course. I have stacks of aromasin on hand. I also have SNS inhibit e which I was tempted to start dosing from day one as a precaution. What you think?

Hmm not familiar with the product. I looked it up - don't put much behind the AI that's in it. Same one in arm1care + another OTC AI and they did nothing for me. Ended up on Arimidex and now in PCT exemestane. The other ingredients are novel to me, no idea.

Honestly most guys running your cycle (it's pretty dry) don't need the pharma AI, so add in the sns product and if you get issues you can drop back to the pharma goods. That's what i would do. But I defer to the other more knowledgeable gentlemen on the forum!

 

[Br1ck_Sh1thouse]

I think if you have something like ol acp on hand as well as an rx ai, then you try the acp first and if it's not working then you call back to old faithful rx. Just my 2 cents...

 

[Varangie]

I'm in for this brother,

As discussed I have just started the 1/4 Andro cycle that you advised me on! Pretty much on the same timeline here!!

V

 

[Vikingbro]

I think if you have something like ol acp on hand as well as an rx ai, then you try the acp first and if it's not working then you call back to old faithful rx. Just my 2 cents...

I have armicare pro, SNS inhibit e, Nolva and pharma Exemestane so I should be covered

 

[Vikingbro]

I'm in for this brother,

As discussed I have just started the 1/4 Andro cycle that you advised me on! Pretty much on the same timeline here!!

V

Cool mate. I'm starting tomorrow. Dropped my first ostarine cap today for good measure. We will compare cycles and see what's what.

 

[Br1ck_Sh1thouse]

I have armicare pro, SNS inhibit e, Nolva and pharma Exemestane so I should be covered

Lots of options, nothing wrong with that!

 

[GreekTheBrick]

Hey all, I have decided to do a log of my second ever cycle with the above mentioned compounds. My first cycle was ostarine (OL) 20 mg for 8 weeks then 25mg for another 2. I loved this cycle as a recomp. I stayed exactly the same weight but lost 4% BF, added a little muscle and recomped nicely considering I wasn't spot on with my calorie intake. This cycle will be different though. I have been patient with this during my PCT and researched hard with everything from the compounds, timing, support supps, meal planning including detailed macros for a lean bulk so I don't balloon. I only have to look at a donut and I put weight on! It is for this reason that I transitioned to Keto nearly 2 years ago. During this cycle though I will modify this and go lower on the fats but the only fats I will take will be healthy ones. My log will not be super detailed in regards to what workouts I will do. It will however state changing body measurements, general feelings, changes I may need to make etc etc. So here are my starting stats-

Male 37 years

Height 5 foot 10. Not that this will change!

Weight 87 Kg or for my American brothers 191 pounds.

BF 14.4%

I will be running- all compounds 10 weeks

1 andro 3x day 7AM 3PM 11PM

4 andro 2x day 7AM 11PM ( I will add in a 3PM dose after 3 weeks if I don't have symptoms of estrogen conversion/gyno)

Epi andro 2 x day PWO

Follidrone 2.0 x 3 a day starting week 3 until my 2 bottles run out

OL ostarine 5mg a day for 10 weeks. I have decided to add this small dose in as I felt it really helped with my tendinitis and shoulder following a shoulder operation last year. It is for this reason only

Support supps- fish oil, garlic, creatine, multi vits, glutamine, whey isolate, casein, L Carnitine, betaine anhydrous

arm1care pro throughout and into PCT as directed on bottle. I started arm1care pro a week ago to help my body adjust to any possible blood pressure changes etc. I also have a blood pressure monitor and will take 3 x daily readings.

PCT-

I have clomid, Nolva, aromasin all pharma and will likely do a split Nolva/clomid combo as when I tried clomid after my ostarine cycle I had unbearable depression and switched to Nolva which was a dream.

Nolva 10/10/5/5
Clomid 25/25/12.5/12.5
Exemestane 0/0/25eod/12.5eod/12.5eod/6eod/6eod

Cardarine/GW 20 mg a day for 4 weeks

SNS reduce XT 2 weeks into PCT for 4 weeks

I was going to start this cycle 2 weeks ago but had the flu so am starting in a few days. This cycle is not set in stone yet as I hope a few of my brothers on here who know much more than me will chime in with recommendations/ alterations. Thanks to you all who have taken the time to read this and who express an interest in seeing the results. I will post before and after pics too if you wish.

Thanks again and please feel free to help adjust the above if you see anything that's not good.

Hey mate, nice stuff you have there!! Definitely ditch follidron on cycle its a total waste, start it 2days before finishing your cycle and continue it through PCT and even more. As for PCT I would run Nolva 20/20/10/10. Since you have pharma stuff no need to worry, you are all covered

I am in to watch the gains coming!!

 

[Vikingbro]

Hey mate, nice stuff you have there!! Definitely ditch follidron on cycle its a total waste, start it 2days before finishing your cycle and continue it through PCT and even more. As for PCT I would run Nolva 20/20/10/10. Since you have pharma stuff no need to worry, you are all covered

I am in to watch the gains coming!!

Thanks bro for your advice. Your the second person who has advised the folli thing so I will do this.

 

[Br1ck_Sh1thouse]

Thanks bro for your advice. Your the second person who has advised the folli thing so I will do this.

Me third!

 

[Vikingbro]

Me third!

Haha it seems my estimation of using folli to boost muscle gains on cycle wasn't that good

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Haha it seems my estimation of using folli to boost muscle gains on cycle wasn't that good

Itll help in other areas mainly, and could "indirectly" further on-cycle gains.

But PCT and beyond is where you are really going to want to utilise natty compounds to try and keep your progression moving in the right direction.

 

[Vikingbro]

Ok quick update. I started my cycle today and did my measurements. It's slightly off from what I thought but I will write them here and at the end to compare-

Total weight-84kg

BF-15.8% (range 13-19)

13.3kg total fat (range 11-16)

Lean mass-70.7kg (range 68-73)

Dry lean weight-19.7kg

Water-60.7% (range 55-65%)

BMI-26.5 (range 20-25)

So apart from BMI, which I'm not too worried about right now, I am within acceptable ranges

Does anyone know what 'dry lean weight' actually is?

 

[GreekTheBrick]

Its the sum of protein and minerals in the muscle.

What method did you use to get these measurements mate?

PS. Our aim is to be beyond range for lean mass!

 

[Vikingbro]

Its the sum of protein and minerals in the muscle.

What method did you use to get these measurements mate?

PS. Our aim is to be beyond range for lean mass!

Ok so protein and minerals is something I need to increase?

I used a machine in my gym. They attach pads to your feet and hands, wire it up to a machine whilst you lie down and it sends a signal through your body. They reckon it's quite accurate

And I'm hoping to be beyond the range soon after this cycle. If not then I'm gonna start pinning

 

[GreekTheBrick]

They will both raise when you raise your lean mass although it will be minor.

Oh man pinning.. you will feel like you were skating and then you got on a super fast car.. but for now focus on your cycle. You are here and weights are waiting to get lifted, by you!!

 

[Laharl9999]

Count me in. Will be doing this cycle next, minus the epi. Good luck!

 

[Vikingbro]

Day 1

Nothing to report. Legs and tri workout. Only dosed 1/4. Waiting for my dht blocking shampoo to get here to use before I start my Epi. Plus I want to use the last of my stim PWO up as I will be using Epi instead and don't want to mix the two.

 

[mmorso]

Subbed. I argue for Follidrone on cycle... myostatin inhibition, nutrient partitioning, angiogenesis all of which will be exacerbated by the PH's... makes sense

 

[Vikingbro]

Subbed. I argue for Follidrone on cycle... myostatin inhibition, nutrient partitioning, angiogenesis all of which will be exacerbated by the PH's... makes sense

Interesting you say this. I originally thought the same. Especially the myostatin inhibition which I thought would be crucial during the cycle

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Interesting you say this. I originally thought the same. Especially the myostatin inhibition which I thought would be crucial during the cycle

If you can afford to run it through cycle and PCT etc then it certainly wont be detrimental.

 

[Vikingbro]

Day 2-

Again not a lot to report. Still only on 1/4. Back workout today. Obviously nothing is happening yet but I felt stronger. Placebo effect coming in or just one if those better days in the gym. I may skip the log for a couple of weeks until the andros kick in as its pointless just writing logs with no changes.

 

[mmorso]

Interesting you say this. I originally thought the same. Especially the myostatin inhibition which I thought would be crucial during the cycle

I ran it on an LGD/MK plus the kitchen sink cycle... I started it around 2 or 3 weeks into the cycle and noticed that weight gain started to slow down and I was getting more vascular. I increased my kcals to compensate for the FD2, cause I was impatient and wanted to put on some mass.. I don't really know what I was thinking!!! I would have gotten such a great recomp effect but I was dead set on getting my lifts up and thought I needed to eat more.

Anyway, when my kcals were on the high end (3,200-3,500) the effects of the FD2 seemed a little muted in comparison to when I was eating around 2,700 kcals. Of course, the effects I'm talking about are the acute preworkout energy, pumps, and vascularity... I'm assuming that myostatin inhibition didn't decrease. So IMO and from what I experienced, the effects of FD2 are overshadowed by the bulking diet most people eat while running gear, not by the gear itself.....

Ive been wondering if this is also true for some people that claim to be epicatechin "non-responders..." Im curious as to wether or not kcal intake and meal timing are responsible for them not feeling any effects from epicatechin. I have mixed feelings about FD2 because of this in all honesty. I've run it in a deficit while doing a CKD and had to discontinue using it after 2 wks cause I was going hypo... I also got frustrated when I was in a surplus cause it seemed like it wasn't doing much for the price. I actually just ordered another bottle to run while eating maintenance kcals to see if I get a different experience. I'm also still on MK and think it might help improve insulin sensitivity... anyway, that was a long digression and I apologize for the derail lol

 

[GreekTheBrick]

Man not any natural supplement is going to enhance any hormonal compound. At least, noticable to us. Not in this world, not with the chemistry laws that rule.

Of course the decision is yours mate

 

[mmorso]

Man not any natural supplement is going to enhance any hormonal compound. At least, noticable to us. Not in this world, not with the chemistry laws that rule.

Of course the decision is yours mate

What about grapefruit juice and Dbol?

 

[GreekTheBrick]

Is grapefruit juice a supplement or a food?

 

[mmorso]

But really GreekTheBrick.. I agree that FD2 won't enhance the gear.. but if you think about the fact that myostatin levels increase the longer you are in cycle and that you also become more insulin resistant the longer on, don't you think there is some benefit to running it? I mean, I think it can be used for these reasons in the same way that we take TUDCA, NAC, CoQ10, etc on cycle

 

[mmorso]

Is grapefruit juice a supplement or a food?

Natty supplements derive from food sources... don't get your point here man...

 

[GreekTheBrick]

But really GreekTheBrick.. I agree that FD2 won't enhance the gear.. but if you think about the fact that myostatin levels increase the longer you are in cycle and that you also become more insulin resistant the longer on, don't you think there is some benefit to running it? I mean, I think it can be used for these reasons in the same way that we take TUDCA, NAC, CoQ10, etc on cycle

Putting it that way, it may help. Since we are talking about weak PH, it may have its merit on cycle. Very minor in my opinion. About your post about food, I have to add that I agree, food is really underrated, proper and timely nutrition can beat any cycle that hasn't proper nutrition in the long run

 

[GreekTheBrick]

Natty supplements derive from food sources... don't get your point here man...

Sure, but they aren't food nor can substitute food. That's why they are called supplements. I mean we cant compare them, their role in building muscle or cutting fat. What I want to say is this. If you say that you need to eat more while on cycle-since we are talking about a cycle- in order to gain muscle I will agree 100%. I you say you need to cut calories in order to loose fat I will totally agree. Both choices(eating or cutting food) would greatly enhance a cycle. Any cycle, natty or not. But while on hormones I don't think a supplement will play any significant role if any. Personally I even ditch creatine while I cycle

 

[NewAgeMayan]

If it doesnt play a significant role on-cycle, it wont off-cycle either.

I dont think anyone is saying a natty product will rival a ph for effects...but that any benefits it does have will not magically disappear on-cycle.

 

[TIG3R54]

Day 2-

Again not a lot to report. Still only on 1/4. Back workout today. Obviously nothing is happening yet but I felt stronger. Placebo effect coming in or just one if those better days in the gym. I may skip the log for a couple of weeks until the andros kick in as its pointless just writing logs with no changes.

Noticing anything yet?

 

[Tymba]

This is what i was about to do, i did 4 days, im stopping, i dont understand half of the stuff on here and now im scared lol

 

[mmorso]

This is what i was about to do, i did 4 days, im stopping, i dont understand half of the stuff on here and now im scared lol

That sucks bud.. I'd start asking questions and educate yourself before stopping the cycle. Especially if you aren't encountering any sides (except anxiety, which is evident). There are some great guys on this forum that will walk you through issues that may come up. What are you tripping out about? Didn't you get mentally prepared before running the sh1t...

 

[Tymba]

The big guys at gym were like this stuff doesnt aromatise and a 4 week cycle isn't s*** do one tablet of each before workout one tablet of each before bed and eat a lot I really second-guessed it so I jumped on here and lo and behold lol now im scared i didnt preload cycle armor, i gotta fast ship some serms, get a script for fintastiride, pura dor shampoo.etc

 

[mmorso]

The big guys at gym were like this stuff doesnt aromatise and a 4 week cycle isn't s*** do one tablet of each before workout one tablet of each before bed and eat a lot I really second-guessed it so I jumped on here and lo and behold lol now im scared i didnt preload cycle armor, i gotta fast ship some serms, get a script for fintastiride, pura dor shampoo.etc

Lol buddy... you're good to go. I'd run it longer (8wks) and would say fck the shampoo; fck preloading on cycle supports for an andro run so you're good here too.

Getting a SERM and an AI (exemestane) is all you need to do and it's not difficult. Keep running the course man.

 

[justhere4comm]

The big guys at gym were like this stuff doesnt aromatise and a 4 week cycle isn't s*** do one tablet of each before workout one tablet of each before bed and eat a lot I really second-guessed it so I jumped on here and lo and behold lol now im scared i didnt preload cycle armor, i gotta fast ship some serms, get a script for fintastiride, pura dor shampoo.etc

What of each compound in doses my man. Don't just stop.

You can get ancillaries in time if you don't panic. Lay it out clearly. What you have.

Some good fellas in here will get you back on track with good advice.

 

[Tymba]

20 mg of 4 ad taken before train and 20 before bed (dissolving tab)
20mg 1 andro taken same way about 10 min apart

 

[mmorso]

Vikingbro how's the cycle going man? You 15lbs heavier yet or what?

 

[Vikingbro]

Noticing anything yet?

I'm on day 8 at the moment and added Epi 2 days ago. The only thing I have noticed is water retention so far and an increase of 2kg which is clearly water and not a gram of muscle.