What compound is the least androgenic but most test-suppressive?

[Moo37]

I'm a male to female trans person lifting weights and working out with a focus on physique/aesthetic enhancement. Obviously this would mean that any sort of "virilization effects" are highly undesirable. As my body still produces testosterone, I have to take a testosterone-blocker, spironolactone, and it fuctions as an agonist of the androgen receptor. So considering that I'd like to take compounds/supplements, this means I'm left with two options - I can use something that functions through a pathway other than the androgen receptor, or take something so suppressive that I won't need to use the spironolactone on cycle.

Option one would likely be involving an epicat supplement, such as FD2, but since that works by myostatin inhibition, it seems reasonable to assume the mechanism of action is making gains more effective and last longer instead of triggering them. A nutrient shuttling/partitioning supplement like laxogenin would seem to be my best option.

Option two would be what I'm asking about - how dumb of an idea would it be to take a PED with the goal of keeping my test levels shut down? Epistane and LGD both seem to be fairly strong options for this as they both would keep me shut down while having minimal androgenic side effects. My thought is Epistane/FD2/Cardarine, and possibly MGF/DES as I've been wanting to do a site growth run for a while, and I think this would be my best chance at success with the FD2. What would OCT and PCT look like for this, other than liver/organ support, as I'm not worried about gaining test levels back?

And yes, I know this is a weird question and filled with bro-science. Thanks.

 

[Brandinooooo]

LGD is super suppressive. Other than that, I'm not sure what to suggest.

 

[rascal14]

Anavar

 

[Moo37]

Anavar certainly seems like an option with regards to not being very androgenic, but it looks questionable if suppression would be significant enough with dosages that I would be using. Certainly an option though.

 

[yates84]

M1t would be a good choice, very suppressive and not very androgenic.

 

[LeanEngineer]

M1t would be a good choice, very suppressive and not very androgenic.

I'd agree with yates84 on this one. M1t would be a great option for you.

 

[rascal14]

M1t would be a good choice, very suppressive and not very androgenic.

Your messages are full!

 

[yates84]

Your messages are full!

Just cleared them buddy, mailbox has been blowing up!

 

[Moo37]

From what I gather, what reduces the androgenic rating of PH's and AAS' are methylated bonds that don't run the risk of aromatizing into estrogen. Which could possibly explain why women can use them as the main compound on a bulk with success.

If I keep my options at PHs, I'd have to be using harsh compounds such as m1t characterized by short cycle lengths due to liver concerns. Were I to open my options up, as I'd rather do a slower lower risk cycle for 6 to 8 weeks, my only real options would be var, win, and maybe epistane. LGD, whIle still on the table, doesn't do anything to control cortisol, so I believe it wouldn't be as successful for a theoretical recomp cycle.

 

[yates84]

From what I gather, what reduces the androgenic rating of PH's and AAS' are methylated bonds that don't run the risk of aromatizing into estrogen. Which could possibly explain why women can use them as the main compound on a bulk with success.

If I keep my options at PHs, I'd have to be using harsh compounds such as m1t characterized by short cycle lengths due to liver concerns. Were I to open my options up, as I'd rather do a slower lower risk cycle for 6 to 8 weeks, my only real options would be var, win, and maybe epistane. LGD, whIle still on the table, doesn't do anything to control cortisol, so I believe it wouldn't be as successful for a theoretical recomp cycle.

Then why not run a longer cycle of nandrolone, it's not very androgenic and will definitely keep endogenous testosterone production shut down for a good amount of time. You can run deca for 16 to 20 weeks

 

[Gutterpump]

NPP or deca possibly, but you haven't mentioned pinning, so maybe not what you're looking for. It's extremely anabolic and not very androgenic. I agree with Yates on this. That's what I'd do.

 

[Moo37]

Pinning wouldn't be an issue - especially if I end up adding MGF+DES. Looking at a couple logs from women, 25mg of NPP seems to give decent results. That gives a little extra leeway for androgenicity if I need to go up for results. NPP or Deca, FD2, and Cardarine would seem to be a fairly decent combination. PCT would be easy as I would need to taper down like pre-menopausal women instead of a PCT protocol. What does on cycle report look like for this? None of these seem to be stressful on the liver so would I be able to get away with OTC liver supps?

 

[yates84]

Pinning wouldn't be an issue - especially if I end up adding MGF+DES. Looking at a couple logs from women, 25mg of NPP seems to give decent results. That gives a little extra leeway for androgenicity if I need to go up for results. NPP or Deca, FD2, and Cardarine would seem to be a fairly decent combination. PCT would be easy as I would need to taper down like pre-menopausal women instead of a PCT protocol. What does on cycle report look like for this? None of these seem to be stressful on the liver so would I be able to get away with OTC liver supps?

No real toxicity concerns with nandrolone, this is more of an issue with orals. No real support supplements are needed but I like to at least run NAC year around for its health benifits anyway. Prami or caber for possible prolactin related sides is always a good idea to have on hand as well, 19 nors like nandrolone are known for this.

 

[Moo37]

Here's a follow up from some continued research I've been doing.

"Since keeping androgen levels constant and moderate gives a higher anabolic/androgenic ratio than using the same total amount of drug per week but allowing levels to spike and then subside, female bodybuilders are better advised to use either long acting esters, or if short acting esters are used, to inject small doses frequently (twice per half-life). And for the same reason, a given amount of oral steroids per day is better taken in divided doses than in a single larger dose."

I also suspect that would be better for suppression. That puts me at dosing NPP each morning, Deca twice a week, or finding an oral that has a half life of about a day.

 

[rascal14]

That seems about standard to me, male or female.

 

[user567]

I'm a male to female trans person lifting weights and working out with a focus on physique/aesthetic enhancement. Obviously this would mean that any sort of "virilization effects" are highly undesirable. As my body still produces testosterone, I have to take a testosterone-blocker, spironolactone, and it fuctions as an agonist of the androgen receptor. So considering that I'd like to take compounds/supplements, this means I'm left with two options - I can use something that functions through a pathway other than the androgen receptor, or take something so suppressive that I won't need to use the spironolactone on cycle.

Option one would likely be involving an epicat supplement, such as FD2, but since that works by myostatin inhibition, it seems reasonable to assume the mechanism of action is making gains more effective and last longer instead of triggering them. A nutrient shuttling/partitioning supplement like laxogenin would seem to be my best option.

Option two would be what I'm asking about - how dumb of an idea would it be to take a PED with the goal of keeping my test levels shut down? Epistane and LGD both seem to be fairly strong options for this as they both would keep me shut down while having minimal androgenic side effects. My thought is Epistane/FD2/Cardarine, and possibly MGF/DES as I've been wanting to do a site growth run for a while, and I think this would be my best chance at success with the FD2. What would OCT and PCT look like for this, other than liver/organ support, as I'm not worried about gaining test levels back?

And yes, I know this is a weird question and filled with bro-science. Thanks.

Take a SARM for sure. LGD! Will do everything your looking for. Lower your T (drop the spiro while running) and raise Estrodial a little