Discussion: More muscles -less fat...all WITHOUT training

[hairygrandpa]

Guys, SFreed Kaprice Jebrook bighulksmash dsade Studhorse FireTitan MrKleen73 CJNator NewAgeMayan GNO josun raul87 JulzRulz BEAST73 Woody Vikingbro wesb2387 ma70 Rand0m NoAddedHmones Bult The_Old_Guy HIT4ME ChocolateClen




For entertainment purpose (cringe) only I watch Jason Blaha's youtube channel and saw THIS vid:

[video=youtube;gvfTFR5ikcw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvfTFR5ikcw[/video]

The cited study is here:

Testosterone dose-response relationships in healthy young men | Endocrinology and Metabolism

Summary:
-61 males 18-35yo / natty weight lifter
-25, 50, 125, 300, or 600 mg of testosterone enanthate for 20 wk
-Energy and protein intakes were standardized: 36kcal x kg/day 1,2g prot. xkg/day
-NO strength training

Result:
-Fat-free mass increased dose dependently: change +3.4, 5.2, and 7.9 kg

Translation:
Just take testosterone and do NOTHING. If you take 600mg/week for 20 weeks, you will gain 17 pounds of muscle AND lose body fat too! No need for protein shakes either, just consume 1,2g prot. x kg /day.

I thought about it. Hormones are used on livestock, they gain muscles without extra exercising too.... hmmm

What the hell? What do you think?

 

[YoungBodyBuil]

It makes sense.. More test.. More protein synthesis and more energy expenditure therefore if the person has a controlled diet they'd see results independent of exercise.

 

[FireTitan]

Guys, SFreed Kaprice Jebrook bighulksmash dsade Studhorse FireTitan MrKleen73 CJNator NewAgeMayan GNO josun raul87 JulzRulz BEAST73 Woody Vikingbro wesb2387 ma70 Rand0m NoAddedHmones Bult The_Old_Guy HIT4ME




For entertainment purpose (cringe) only I watch Jason Blaha's youtube channel and saw THIS vid:

[video=youtube;gvfTFR5ikcw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvfTFR5ikcw[/video]

The cited study is here:

Testosterone dose-response relationships in healthy young men | Endocrinology and Metabolism

Summary:
-61 males 18-35yo / natty weight lifter
-25, 50, 125, 300, or 600 mg of testosterone enanthate for 20 wk
-Energy and protein intakes were standardized: 36kcal x kg/day 1,2g prot. xkg/day
-NO strength training

Result:
-Fat-free mass increased dose dependently: change +3.4, 5.2, and 7.9 kg

Translation:
Just take testosterone and do NOTHING. If you take 600mg/week for 20 weeks, you will gain 17 pounds of muscle AND lose body fat too! No need for protein shakes either, just consume 1,2g prot. x kg /day.

I thought about it. Hormones are used on livestock, they gain muscles without extra exercising too.... hmmm

What the hell? What do you think?

Well I just lost half my paycheck to up the dose!

 

[hairygrandpa]

It makes sense.. More test.. More protein synthesis and more energy expenditure therefore if the person has a controlled diet they'd see results independent of exercise.

Well I just lost half my paycheck to up the dose!

This blows my mind, really.

As it is dose dependent, when you are injured -or when on vacations you should take MORE test. This way you'll gain more muscles even on the injured limb and without exercising.

 

[FireTitan]

This blows my mind, really.

As it is dose dependent, when you are injured -or when on vacations you should take MORE test. This way you'll gain more muscles even on the injured limb and without exercising.

Nice! Im always injured

 

[Jebrook]

Guys, SFreed Kaprice Jebrook bighulksmash dsade Studhorse FireTitan MrKleen73 CJNator NewAgeMayan GNO josun raul87 JulzRulz BEAST73 Woody Vikingbro wesb2387 ma70 Rand0m NoAddedHmones Bult The_Old_Guy HIT4ME




For entertainment purpose (cringe) only I watch Jason Blaha's youtube channel and saw THIS vid:

[video=youtube;gvfTFR5ikcw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvfTFR5ikcw[/video]

The cited study is here:

Testosterone dose-response relationships in healthy young men | Endocrinology and Metabolism

Summary:
-61 males 18-35yo / natty weight lifter
-25, 50, 125, 300, or 600 mg of testosterone enanthate for 20 wk
-Energy and protein intakes were standardized: 36kcal x kg/day 1,2g prot. xkg/day
-NO strength training

Result:
-Fat-free mass increased dose dependently: change +3.4, 5.2, and 7.9 kg

Translation:
Just take testosterone and do NOTHING. If you take 600mg/week for 20 weeks, you will gain 17 pounds of muscle AND lose body fat too! No need for protein shakes either, just consume 1,2g prot. x kg /day.

I thought about it. Hormones are used on livestock, they gain muscles without extra exercising too.... hmmm

What the hell? What do you think?

I didn't read the linked study or watch the vid hairygrandpa. I will later after work. It is interesting and not unexpected. Supraphysiological levels of testosterone will of course increase fat loss and lean mass. Just like any cycle though a large portion of the lean mass is glycogen and water retention. And I guarantee all that weight will melt right off without weight training to utilize the increased muscle mass, even if they PCT. PCT might help keep the mass on longer but ultimately, without weight training or cruising it is essentially pissing in the wind. 600 mg test for 20 weeks would certainly elicit much better results with intense weight training.

 

[hairygrandpa]

It says nothing about what would have been the result if the participants:

-did weight training
-consumed more protein

On 600mg test they gained 17lbs of muscles in 5 month, doing nothing. That's what a natty achieves within his first 12 month of training, damn.
This is somehow good news, I just wonder WHY the hell am I training my azz off in the gym.

 

[hairygrandpa]

I didn't read the linked study or watch the vid hairygrandpa. I will later after work. It is interesting and not unexpected. Supraphysiological levels of testosterone will of course increase fat loss and lean mass. Just like any cycle though a large portion of the lean mass is glycogen and water retention. And I guarantee all that weight will melt right off without weight training to utilize the increased muscle mass, even if they PCT. PCT might help keep the mass on longer but ultimately, without weight training or cruising it is essentially pissing in the wind. 600 mg test for 20 weeks would certainly elicit much better results with intense weight training.

Read the study...no water....muscles. I agree, training and more cals should give more results.

 

[CJNator]

I've watched the video plus I have somewhat proof anecdotally. My friend was on I believe around 1g of tren and some test prop or cyp, around this time he could barely breath due to the tren so he barely workout out. He also has above average genetics too. During this time he mostly did was eat and work(physical labor so he wasn't totally not exercising), anyways he got huge. Loss fat and gained muscle, barely lifted. He didn't do legs but he legs were bigger then mine(not that they are that big but I did legs lol).

 

[Jebrook]

It says nothing about what would have been the result if the participants:

-did weight training
-consumed more protein

On 600mg test they gained 17lbs of muscles in 5 month, doing nothing. That's what a natty achieves within his first 12 month of training, damn.
This is somehow good news, I just wonder WHY the hell am I training my azz off in the gym.

Because you don't want to shave in your abs anymore.

 

[InItForGainz]

No Training=No Pump
No Pump=What Even Is Life With No Pump!

 

[habajaba]

Interesting. And makes sense. But this is only really realistic for someone already on TRT. Right? Otherwise you can say goodbye to your gonads.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

I agree. I've read that study a few times. The ref to cattle was a good one - they don't lift either. Here's another one not related to Test: take the fattest non-lifting guy you know and immediately suck all the fat off him - he'd be pretty friggen huge underneath cuz food is anabolic as heck too

 

[double s]

can someone please tell me what the infatuation is with this guy? My 12 year old daughter has more muscle than this guy....

 

[YoungBodyBuil]

can someone please tell me what the infatuation is with this guy? My 12 year old daughter has more muscle than this guy....

Because he's so ignorant and out of his mind that it's actually entertaining.

 

[Driven2lift]

Lean mass gain is greater with training concurrently so I don't see why you'd be lazy while spending $ on a cycle.

Also you are not helping your fitness or health this way whatsoever... I wouldn't want to be sedentary with elevated cardiac risks, declining lipids, etc.

It will add mass for sure but ask yourself how functional it will be for you, too.

 

[hairygrandpa]

Interesting. And makes sense. But this is only really realistic for someone already on TRT. Right? Otherwise you can say goodbye to your gonads.

Yes -and no.
Sadly, they did not a follow up on the gains after cessation of exogenous test. My guess is that all participants had a favorable recuperation.

 

[ChocolateClen]

Rip to my hopes of being tagged in funny threads like this

Honestly tho I can get behind this. As others have stated, more test=more protein synthesis and increased metabolism. But 20 weeks, long time to be on stuff in my opinion unless you're already on TRT.

 

[hairygrandpa]

Lean mass gain is greater with training concurrently so I don't see why you'd be lazy while spending $ on a cycle.

Also you are not helping your fitness or health this way whatsoever... I wouldn't want to be sedentary with elevated cardiac risks, declining lipids, etc.

It will add mass for sure but ask yourself how functional it will be for you, too.

Also tendons and ligaments will not have adjusted to new muscles if never trained.

 

[hairygrandpa]

Rip to my hopes of being tagged in funny threads like this

Done

 

[hairygrandpa]

My before mentioned thought:

Take more test while injured, will grow muscles on injured limb while resting.

...has to be revised, as more test = less collagen conversion = less healing

Dang...

 

[ChocolateClen]

Anyone know the effects of cruising at >250mg a week for test? What if you cruised at 500? Would you just be emptying your pocket book faster or would it work the same as 250 just with better results? I know more isn't better but if a 600mg/week run while doing no training can put on 17lbs, what would it do with training between cycles?

 

[hairygrandpa]

Anyone know the effects of cruising at >250mg a week for test? What if you cruised at 500? Would you just be emptying your pocket book faster or would it work the same as 250 just with better results? I know more isn't better but if a 600mg/week run while doing no training can put on 17lbs, what would it do with training between cycles?

In the study the group who took 300mg/week gained: 11,4 lbs, doing nothing but scratching their arse cheeks.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Here are the levels in ng/dl at 16 weeks:

25 mg 253 ± 66
50 mg 306 ± 58
125 mg 570 ± 75
300 mg 1,345 ± 139
600 mg 2,370 ± 150

Notice that with the exception of the weird outlier 50mg group (I mean, how can 50 do, what 125 can't?) - nothing significant happened strength-wise until 300mg.

And I think some people are missing the point: Of course training would yield better results - the point is that a lot of people like to tout the "Nothing works unless you do" mantra - which clearly isn't true when talking about drugs - which a lot of the people that say that ^^^^^ are on... whether they admit it, or not.

 

[hairygrandpa]

Before all you chubby guys start pinning test and do LESS workout to lose fat and become a male model like me (muhahaha), please note that fatter individuals (you) will be prone to gyno and probably may have more serious sides due to aromatization of test to estro.

 

[double s]

Before all you chubby guys start pinning test and do LESS workout to lose fat and become a male model like me (muhahaha), please note that fatter individuals (you) will be prone to gyno and probably may have more serious sides due to aromatization of test to estro.

Listen to Herbert the Pervert, speaks the truth

 

[Rodja]

This is an old study. Retention over time becomes nonexistent without the stimulus.

 

[hairygrandpa]

This is an old study. Retention over time becomes nonexistent without the stimulus.

Sounds logical.
Do you have a newer study at hand?

 

[YoungBodyBuil]

How many of us are actually just going to sit around and do that.. waste of money and gear..

 

[Rodja]

Sounds logical.
Do you have a newer study at hand?

As far as I know, this is the only one of its kind. I hope it is as well as it doesn't really give us any real insight and it's hard enough to clear ethical hurdles for any study to AAS.

 

[MrKleen73]

Very interesting study. One thing I fond interesting was that they intentionally shut these men down completely for a while before they started the dosing. So I am curious if there was any atrophy before the hypertrophy. People that go on TRT after being shut down for a while also gain some decent size without training.

 

[Jebrook]

How many of us are actually just going to sit around and do that.. waste of money and gear..

...and precious gains.

 

[hairygrandpa]

How many of us are actually just going to sit around and do that.. waste of money and gear..

I think it's good news for us older guys on TRT, doing blast -and cruise cycles. We all have age related handicaps like arthritic knees and whatnot.
This study shows, you can still look decent without training too hard if the juice flows.

 

[YoungBodyBuil]

Very interesting study. One thing I fond interesting was that they intentionally shut these men down completely for a while before they started the dosing. So I am curious if there was any atrophy before the hypertrophy. People that go on TRT after being shut down for a while also gain some decent size without training.

My thoughts exactly could've just been muscle memory gains or even noobie gains if they never trained before

 

[hairygrandpa]

Very interesting study. One thing I fond interesting was that they intentionally shut these men down completely for a while before they started the dosing. So I am curious if there was any atrophy before the hypertrophy. People that go on TRT after being shut down for a while also gain some decent size without training.

My thoughts exactly could've just been muscle memory gains or even noobie gains if they never trained before

No noob gains, all individuals healthy natty lifters:

The participants were healthy men, 18–35 yr of age, with prior weight-lifting experience and normal testosterone levels. These men had not used any anabolic agents and had not participated in competitive sports events in the preceding year, and they were not planning to participate in competitive events in the following year.

 

[MrKleen73]

I think it's good news for us older guys on TRT, doing blast -and cruise cycles. We all have age related handicaps like arthritic knees and whatnot.
This study shows, you can still look decent without training too hard if the juice flows.

Yeah, but screw that the best part of working out is pushing your limitations and trying to improve upon them. Sure it sounds good 600 a week with supports would get pretty expensive to maintain if not working out to tell the body to keep the muscle it won't support the muscle once the heightened anabolics go away.

You can look pretty damn good following a diet and a body weight only program. No need for gear to look good. Especially you. You already have plenty muscle. Leaning up would make you look twice as big. Well with your shirt off anyway.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Doesnt Blaha pin? He doesnt train, so guess he must qualify as an "outlier"...

 

[mmorso]

Do TRT doses fck up lipids and cause other health problems? I've been curious about this

 

[YoungBodyBuil]

Do TRT doses fck up lipids and cause other health problems? I've been curious about this

TRT dose of test with no AI can help lipid profile. it'll up estrogen and in turn help lipids and be anti inflammatory

 

[hairygrandpa]

Yeah, but screw that the best part of working out is pushing your limitations and trying to improve upon them. Sure it sounds good 600 a week with supports would get pretty expensive to maintain if not working out to tell the body to keep the muscle it won't support the muscle once the heightened anabolics go away.

You can look pretty damn good following a diet and a body weight only program. No need for gear to look good. Especially you. You already have plenty muscle. Leaning up would make you look twice as big. Well with your shirt off anyway.

I agree, will not change my gym- and or juicing behavior based on that study. It's all about feeling that iron going up!
My cutting is progressing, just you wait, big boss, I'm coming after you (with the shirt off)! LOL

 

[ChocolateClen]

I agree, will not change my gym- and or juicing behavior based on that study. It's all about feeling that iron going up!
My cutting is progressing, just you wait, big boss, I'm coming after you (with the shirt off)! LOL

Make sure you shave so we can see your gains gratz on the cut tho! My bulk has turned into a cut so I'm trying to get that all sorted out asap

 

[B5150]

This blows my mind, really.

As it is dose dependent, when you are injured -or when on vacations you should take MORE test. This way you'll gain more muscles even on the injured limb and without exercising.

I would venture to guess it is transient. Glycogen retention and protein synthesis and intra cellular water retention from both will register as LBM and not fat when considering body composition testing.

I'm pretty certain hyper trophy is a requirement to "grow" LBM.

 

[B5150]

It says nothing about what would have been the result if the participants:

-did weight training
-consumed more protein

On 600mg test they gained 17lbs of muscles in 5 month, doing nothing. That's what a natty achieves within his first 12 month of training, damn.
This is somehow good news, I just wonder WHY the hell am I training my azz off in the gym.

Actually you can train less when on anabolics.

 

[MrKleen73]

Do TRT doses fck up lipids and cause other health problems? I've been curious about this

Yes it can. However that is why TRT is managed by a doctor. Every individual has different responses and those who are prone to Lipid issues will be more likely to experience them on a higher TRT dose. Same with estrogen sensitive people. That is why when on TRT you go back to get full blood work done regularly. I go in every 6 months and have them do a full blood workup.

TRT dose of test with no AI can help lipid profile. it'll up estrogen and in turn help lipids and be anti inflammatory

These things are also true. It really just depends on how the individual responds and how low their test was originally as well.

I agree, will not change my gym- and or juicing behavior based on that study. It's all about feeling that iron going up!
My cutting is progressing, just you wait, big boss, I'm coming after you (with the shirt off)! LOL

Bring it Big Boy! I am on my way up now. My coach sent me the new program I am starting today and boy oh boy is it gonna be a doozy. Upping calories, volume, and frequency all at once. Should make for some nice super-compensation gains coming off the low volume of a power lifting prep. We are going to work up to a lean 220. Probably in the 9-11% body fat range.

 

[Tank999]

Blaha is a dipwad!
Thay being said - aside from your joints etc keeping up with muscular gainz - for me blasting the weights is pure therapy! I dont know about you guys but most of the guys I lift with - if they didnt lift, people who got in their faces would probably get hurt...

 

[Rodja]

Actually you can train less when on anabolics.

Curious as to how you reached this conclusion.

 

[habajaba]

Yes -and no.
Sadly, they did not a follow up on the gains after cessation of exogenous test. My guess is that all participants had a favorable recuperation.

You think after taking something to completely shut them down and then using exogenous test for 20 weeks wouldn't shut them down permanently?

Why do people recommend running cycles for so much shorter? I thought the point was to keep from getting past the point of no return when your junk packs it's things and leaves for real this time.

 

[sespress]

Lean mass gain is greater with training concurrently so I don't see why you'd be lazy while spending $ on a cycle.

Also you are not helping your fitness or health this way whatsoever... I wouldn't want to be sedentary with elevated cardiac risks, declining lipids, etc.

It will add mass for sure but ask yourself how functional it will be for you, too.

Right, added mass = cardiovascular system pushing harder to accommodate the increased pressure on the vascular system (unless I'm remembering that wrong). For instance take liposuction. They can only remove so many lbs of fat at once and you need to take bp meds afterwards because the heart has grown accustomed to pumping on that weight that's suddenly not there. BP spike will kill a lipo patient if not done right almost immediately after they wake up from anesthetic. So take this approach as an opposite of sorts:. Increased mass with no training = heart muscle working harder than its used to = potentially bad effects on that tissue?? Strain? Smooth muscle tissue is different than the other variety and I'm not sure if putting that TYPE of strain on it is a good call.

I'm not positive on any of this, just applying some logic. But also yes, gonads goodbye without PCT, and what happens long term with a bad lipid profile? More issues! So perhaps much much later in life when training no longer involves benching tons of weight and more like taking a walk around the block twice this could be a good idea. But I'd not try this approach in my 30's.

 

[sespress]

Also tendons and ligaments will not have adjusted to new muscles if never trained.

Another good call. I heard a tendon/ligament snap once when I was working out in a gym in FL. Sounded like a small fire cracker. The guy fainted. It was epic bad news.

 

[sespress]

How many of us are actually just going to sit around and do that.. waste of money and gear..

And seriously don't we all love the lift in the gym when you're hitting the sauce? I'd be depressed not utilizing that energy and strength.