Full body workouts 3 times/week? on Test E 600mg /week

[Ridla]

Hi Yall!

I am not trying to put on lots of size, this is more for functional muscle and training.

Here is my dilemma. I am confused about my workouts. I love all olympic lifts and slow tempo training.

1. If my goal is not to put on too much size, just strength, I should be able lift 2-3 times a week and cardio 3 times a week? Is this a correct assessment? Has anyone ever done this?

2. Has anyone done only high rep scheme for all lifts for an entire cycle and cardio on off days to get a more of a toned look?

One of the main reasons I am running Test E is due the supply of energy, fast recovery and cognitive sharpness.


5th Cycle: Test E 600mg/week - Adex .25 EOD to avoid water and bloat
DURATION: 12 weeks
PCT: Nolva/Clomid
Age: 35
Weight: 205
Height: 5'11.5
Goal weight at end of Cycle is 185

I am running a low carb diet - 200g P/ 70g F/ 40-70g C.

*Carbs only around workouts
**Higher end of carbs on workout days.
***Cheat day every 10 days

Thanx!

 

[mike33511]

If you want strength and not size, you should do all your lifting in the 3-6 rep range at approximately 85-90% of your 1RM. You will, of course, gain some size though. A "toned look" comes from having a lower body fat percentage.

 

[mmorso]

Need more carbs brother.. or at least you should carb cycle. 40-70g your probably in ketosis. You'll want to replenish your glycogen stores weekly if your doing a ketogenic diet.

Also, performance, i.e., strength in keto blows man. Idk how your going to run gear with a goal to improve "functional strength" and have your performance impacted by being that low on carbs.

If it were me, I'd look into running either a GDA on cycle (slinmax is good from what I hear, or follidrone 2) or adding another compound to keep fat off (Winny, masteron, anavar?).

Just my opinion man... I always lose a crazy amount of strength when I'm doing a CKD

 

[CJNator]

Look into DC Training definitely worth trying out

 

[Rodja]

Test won't do jack **** with that paltry amount of calories.

 

[mmorso]

Test won't do jack **** with that paltry amount of calories.

Agreed... I'd either recomp at maintenance kcals or cut using other compounds in a slight deficit with the test..

 

[mmorso]

Look into DC Training definitely worth trying out

Yeah OP... you should check out the LGD log CJNator has going on... this guy has a crazy amount of strength and an efficient way of training...

 

[CJNator]

Yeah OP... you should check out the LGD log CJNator has going on... this guy has a crazy amount of strength and an efficient way of training...

On test he'll definitely eat more because of the hunger but if I were u OP maybe make your workout look like this.

Squat
2 warm ups
1 working rest pause set for example
225x10 then wait 10-15 seconds and go again, do this as many times as u can safely.

Bench
Same protocol as squats

Deadlifts
Same protocol as squats

After you can add isolation exercises with either regular sets or rest pause sets. You won't be burning as many calories with this way of lifting and will focus more on strength/hypertrophy depending on your rep range. I usually switch up my rep range with helps with strength. You definitely need your form down with the big 3 to minimize any possible injuries.

 

[Rodja]

On test he'll definitely eat more because of the hunger but if I were u OP maybe make your workout look like this.

Squat
2 warm ups
1 working rest pause set for example
225x10 then wait 10-15 seconds and go again, do this as many times as u can safely.

Bench
Same protocol as squats

Deadlifts
Same protocol as squats

After you can add isolation exercises with either regular sets or rest pause sets. You won't be burning as many calories with this way of lifting and will focus more on strength/hypertrophy depending on your rep range. I usually switch up my rep range with helps with strength. You definitely need your form down with the big 3 to minimize any possible injuries.

R/P on compounds like that is far from ideal especially if done consistently. AMRAP is one thing, but R/P is asking for compromised form.

 

[CJNator]

R/P on compounds like that is far from ideal especially if done consistently. AMRAP is one thing, but R/P is asking for compromised form.

That's true, maybe OP would prefer his test at a cruising dose for what he wants.

 

[Rodja]

That's true, maybe OP would prefer his test at a cruising dose for what he wants.

I meant the movements and not the test. All the drugs in the world won't prevent a CNS from being blown out and failure on deadlifts is a surefire way to CNS fatigue.

 

[CJNator]

I meant the movements and not the test. All the drugs in the world won't prevent a CNS from being blown out and failure on deadlifts is a surefire way to CNS fatigue.

I've been doing deadlifts 3-4 days a week and I'm only on LGD, off cycle I do it 3 days a week. I may need a deload week earlier but I'm my strongest I've ever been. I don't squat recently since something may be torn in my hip or something but that was because I didn't train correctly.

 

[Rodja]

I've been doing deadlifts 3-4 days a week and I'm only on LGD, off cycle I do it 3 days a week. I may need a deload week earlier but I'm my strongest I've ever been. I don't squat recently since something may be torn in my hip or something but that was because I didn't train correctly.

No person programs to failure deadlifts multiple times per week and expects long term progress. With the deadlift, less is more. Squat more; pull less.

 

[CJNator]

No person programs to failure deadlifts multiple times per week and expects long term progress. With the deadlift, less is more. Squat more; pull less.

That's why I would recommend deloading more regularly for long term progress. Overreaching may come earlier but it isn't that easy to do so.

 

[Rodja]

That's why I would recommend deloading more regularly for long term progress. Overreaching may come earlier but it isn't that easy to do so.

Overreaching with the deadlift is damn easy to do. See how many consecutive weeks at 90+% you can do without considerable fatigue. The best deadlifters in the world will all tell you that it's the only lift where you can't constantly test and, with what you're recommending, that's testing a lift.

The caveat here is that if you're not that strong, then I guess you can train that way.

 

[CJNator]

Overreaching with the deadlift is damn easy to do. See how many consecutive weeks at 90+% you can do without considerable fatigue. The best deadlifters in the world will all tell you that it's the only lift where you can't constantly test and, with what you're recommending, that's testing a lift.

The caveat here is that if you're not that strong, then I guess you can train that way.

Right now I'm working between 365 and 425(as of today) but I've always been in the 300s. If someone is only doing 1 rest pause set every other day it won't impact their CNS then there is Bench and squats but still the same concept. If one is getting adequate rest and nutrition for maximum recovery(excluding deload days) assuming frequency and volume are balanced.

 

[Rodja]

Right now I'm working between 365 and 425(as of today) but I've always been in the 300s. If someone is only doing 1 rest pause set every other day it won't impact their CNS then there is Bench and squats but still the same concept. If one is getting adequate rest and nutrition for maximum recovery(excluding deload days) assuming frequency and volume are balanced.

You realize really heavy deadlifters pull like once a month, right? Hell, I did on Monday for the first time in over two months. However, I'm a 600+# puller so it's different.

 

[CJNator]

You realize really heavy deadlifters pull like once a month, right? Hell, I did on Monday for the first time in over two months. However, I'm a 600+# puller so it's different.

Yea If you're pulling 600+ volume and frequency can be minimized so RP sets aren't needed. At my body weight I definitely would be considered a heavy lifter. I'll see how it goes these two months since I'm stronger and now natty.

 

[jswain34]

Yea If you're pulling 600+ volume and frequency can be minimized so RP sets aren't needed. At my body weight I definitely would be considered a heavy lifter. I'll see how it goes these two months since I'm stronger and now natty.

Didn't you just say you're on lgd?

 

[jswain34]

And ive seen you talk about training twice and both times it genuinely seems like you really think you know what you're talking about.

Did the guy even tell you his 1rms before you told him to go rest pausing with 225 on all 3 power lifts? Why the same exact weight for all three when you know nothing about the guy?

 

[CJNator]

Didn't you just say you're on lgd?

And ive seen you talk about training twice and both times it genuinely seems like you really think you know what you're talking about.

Did the guy even tell you his 1rms before you told him to go rest pausing with 225 on all 3 power lifts? Why the same exact weight for all three when you know nothing about the guy?

Got off it 2 days ago or so and that was an example, I thought saying "for example" made it clear it was an example.

 

[jswain34]

Got off it 2 days ago or so and that was an example, I thought saying "for example" made it clear it was an example.

So you're "natty now" since you got off lgd two days ago...got it lol. I'd tend to disagree but for the sake of not derailing we wont go into that.

And okay, I overlooked the "example" part, my bad.

 

[Rodja]

Yea If you're pulling 600+ volume and frequency can be minimized so RP sets aren't needed. At my body weight I definitely would be considered a heavy lifter. I'll see how it goes these two months since I'm stronger and now natty.

Pretty sure a 3xBW deadlift counts as a decent one. Again, you haphazardly recommend something without knowing nearly enough background knowledge of the OP. You use all the appropriate words that make it sound like you know what you're talking about, but it's clear you don't. NOBODY in their right mind recommends consistent R/P sets for a deadlift. Going to absolute failure on deadlifts consistently is the faster way to CNS fatigue. The stronger you are; the faster it will happen.

 

[CJNator]

Pretty sure a 3xBW deadlift counts as a decent one. Again, you haphazardly recommend something without knowing nearly enough background knowledge of the OP. You use all the appropriate words that make it sound like you know what you're talking about, but it's clear you don't. NOBODY in their right mind recommends consistent R/P sets for a deadlift. Going to absolute failure on deadlifts consistently is the faster way to CNS fatigue. The stronger you are; the faster it will happen.

Not sure how I word things has anything to do with the topic but ok. Explain how it's so hazardous to do so or even just try out? Also why do you think someone can't deadlift 3 sets a week(excluding warmup set)?

I understand the stronger you are the faster CNS fatigue will come, I think you can stop milking that and I'll say again that's why there is something called a deload week.

OP yea it's hard on the CNS so assuming you have free will and don't blindly do stuff you can cut it down to 2 or 1 time a week if you would like. Whether you even try 3 times a week is all you, just do you best not to break form and change your workout accordingly.

 

[mmorso]

I do deads twice a week and have put 90lbs on my 1RM that way... granted, my max is only 405 but I feel if I only tested it monthly I'd have no gainz on that lift.

But... I've only been lifting for 15mo so I'm a newbie...
I also take amphetamines for ADD, which I think helps me with CNS fatigue to a certain degree

 

[CJNator]

I do deads twice a week and have put 90lbs on my 1RM that way... granted, my max is only 405 but I feel if I only tested it monthly I'd have no gainz on that lift.

But... I've only been lifting for 15mo so I'm a newbie...
I also take amphetamines for ADD, which I think helps me with CNS fatigue to a certain degree

RP training isn't really for people just starting out, besides form it isn't a effective way to lift when starting out. Those are really the only set backs with RP training and I should have asked before recommending it.

 

[jswain34]

Not sure how I word things has anything to do with the topic but ok. Explain how it's so hazardous to do so or even just try out? Also why do you think someone can't deadlift 3 sets a week(excluding warmup set)?

I understand the stronger you are the faster CNS fatigue will come, I think you can stop milking that and I'll say again that's why there is something called a deload week.

OP yea it's hard on the CNS so assuming you have free will and don't blindly do stuff you can cut it down to 2 or 1 time a week if you would like. Whether you even try 3 times a week is all you, just do you best not to break form and change your workout accordingly.

You need to figure out what youre arguing here. I dont think he'd have a huge problem if the guy was deadlifting 3 times a week if 1 of the days were higher intensity and the other two were medium to low intensity for skill work and gpp. I have trained that way and love it. On the other hand, arguing to do 3 weekly sessions of rest pauses to near or to failure on deadlifts just shows a total lack of understanding on programming or training in general for that matter.

Are you telling him to deadlift 3 times a week in some fashion or are you telling him to do deadlift rest pauses 3x a week?

I do deads twice a week and have put 90lbs on my 1RM that way... granted, my max is only 405 but I feel if I only tested it monthly I'd have no gainz on that lift.

But... I've only been lifting for 15mo so I'm a newbie...
I also take amphetamines for ADD, which I think helps me with CNS fatigue to a certain degree

Once again, are both of your deadlift sessions TO FAILURE OR NEAR FAILURE? I have even deadlifted 4x a week and that worked extremely well for me. The only difference is that when i was doing so, M/Thurs/Fri or Sat were all lower intensity days where I was just drilling technique and getting skill practice. Tuesdays were days I would work up to a heavy single (@8 rpe most days, @9 3 weeks out, but never @10) then do some percentage back down sets off that days e1rm from the top set. Now if either of you were arguing for something like this, I DOUBT (dont wanna fully speak for him) Rodja would have such a big issue with it.

On the other hand, like stated above, doing 3 days of rest pause work to near failure on the deadlift is haphazard in the fact that the CNS is what drives strength and the deadlift is hardest on the CNS of all 3 power lifts. You arent giving the CNS ample recovery time between heavy deadlift sessions if doing RPs 3x a week.

And, mmorso, you're correct, testing doesn't build your 1rm.

 

[Rodja]

Not sure how I word things has anything to do with the topic but ok. Explain how it's so hazardous to do so or even just try out? Also why do you think someone can't deadlift 3 sets a week(excluding warmup set)?

I understand the stronger you are the faster CNS fatigue will come, I think you can stop milking that and I'll say again that's why there is something called a deload week.

OP yea it's hard on the CNS so assuming you have free will and don't blindly do stuff you can cut it down to 2 or 1 time a week if you would like. Whether you even try 3 times a week is all you, just do you best not to break form and change your workout accordingly.

Am I speaking Mandarin or something? I know what a deload week is and I also know it's something that should only be needed after a systemic overreach after an accumulation phase. So what's the progression you have laid out here since you think you know something about training?

You should learn to listen to those stronger than you with vastly more experience. You can be as arrogant as you want, but you need to realize you don't have nearly experience. The best way to improve the deadlift is to stop testing is so often. Use your squat to build your deadlift. Skill work weekly is fine and/or a builder, but testing it constantly is best way to end up shot and, no, a deload week isn't going to stop that.

 

[mmorso]

How do I schedule a deloading phase after running a cycle? I imagine it would not be a good thing to do in PCT, but what the fck do I know...

I'm about to start a PCT on Wednesday.. should I continue trying to increase volume/intensity through PCT and deload after, or should I lighten the load during PCT?

 

[CJNator]

You need to figure out what youre arguing here. I dont think he'd have a huge problem if the guy was deadlifting 3 times a week if 1 of the days were higher intensity and the other two were medium to low intensity for skill work and gpp. I have trained that way and love it. On the other hand, arguing to do 3 weekly sessions of rest pauses to near or to failure on deadlifts just shows a total lack of understanding on programming or training in general for that matter.

Are you telling him to deadlift 3 times a week in some fashion or are you telling him to do deadlift rest pauses 3x a week?



Once again, are both of your deadlift sessions TO FAILURE OR NEAR FAILURE? I have even deadlifted 4x a week and that worked extremely well for me. The only difference is that when i was doing so, M/Thurs/Fri or Sat were all lower intensity days where I was just drilling technique and getting skill practice. Tuesdays were days I would work up to a heavy single (@8 rpe most days, @9 3 weeks out, but never @10) then do some percentage back down sets off that days e1rm from the top set. Now if either of you were arguing for something like this, I DOUBT (dont wanna fully speak for him) Rodja would have such a big issue with it.

On the other hand, like stated above, doing 3 days of rest pause work to near failure on the deadlift is haphazard in the fact that the CNS is what drives strength and the deadlift is hardest on the CNS of all 3 power lifts. You arent giving the CNS ample recovery time between heavy deadlift sessions if doing RPs 3x a week.

And, mmorso, you're correct, testing doesn't build your 1rm.

I'm saying to deadlift rest pause 3x a week as the main exercise and only exercise for back. I'm going to assume CNS recovery time is subjective but I will look into it.

 

[CJNator]

Am I speaking Mandarin or something? I know what a deload week is and I also know it's something that should only be needed after a systemic overreach after an accumulation phase. So what's the progression you have laid out here since you think you know something about training?

You should learn to listen to those stronger than you with vastly more experience. You can be as arrogant as you want, but you need to realize you don't have nearly experience. The best way to improve the deadlift is to stop testing is so often. Use your squat to build your deadlift. Skill work weekly is fine and/or a builder, but testing it constantly is best way to end up shot and, no, a deload week isn't going to stop that.

What I do is just switch up the my rep range weekly. I can't squat due to a possible torn lerbrum(I spelt it wrong) I'm not really auguring and I am taking away from this conversation. If by test my deadlift you mean go above 80%RM I don't do that. Maybe I can't compare if my CNS recovers faster then most which can only be proven anecdotally but in that case I do recommend switching up deadlifts and squats. I know I'll soon have to stick with single sets since my deadlift is considered to be advanced now.

 

[Rodja]

How do I schedule a deloading phase after running a cycle? I imagine it would not be a good thing to do in PCT, but what the fck do I know...

I'm about to start a PCT on Wednesday.. should I continue trying to increase volume/intensity through PCT and deload after, or should I lighten the load during PCT?

You'll have to adjust volume and intensity, but a full on deload isn't usually necessary.

What I do is just switch up the my rep range weekly. I can't squat due to a possible torn lerbrum(I spelt it wrong) I'm not really auguring and I am taking away from this conversation. If by test my deadlift you mean go above 80%RM I don't do that. Maybe I can't compare if my CNS recovers faster then most which can only be proven anecdotally but in that case I do recommend switching up deadlifts and squats. I know I'll soon have to stick with single sets since my deadlift is considered to be advanced now.

Deadlifts aren't a "back" exercise. Advanced according to what? I don't think you realize how much the numbers have changed now. It's pretty common to see 148'ers pulling over 400. Hell, there's a good number of chicks that pull that.

 

[CJNator]

You'll have to adjust volume and intensity, but a full on deload isn't usually necessary.



Deadlifts aren't a "back" exercise. Advanced according to what? I don't think you realize how much the numbers have changed now. It's pretty common to see 148'ers pulling over 400. Hell, there's a good number of chicks that pull that.

I do chin ups too and common where? I'm talking about body weight to strength ratio charts. I've been to plenty of gym and I'm usually the smallest pulling the most weight, plus I have never touched an AAS. If females are pulling that weight they most likely are juicing and I'm sure the majorly of people on this forum will agree.

 

[Rodja]

I do chin ups too and common where? I'm talking about body weight to strength ratio charts. I've been to plenty of gym and I'm usually the smallest pulling the most weight, plus I have never touched an AAS. If females are pulling that weight they most likely are juicing and I'm sure the majorly of people on this forum will agree.

Didn't you just come off cycle? Strength numbers aren't static; they change constantly. People are getting stronger.

 

[CJNator]

Didn't you just come off cycle?

Just LGD, nothing strong compared to any injectable or oral AASs.

 

[mmorso]

Chicks pulling over 400.. bet they got beards and testicles lol

 

[CJNator]

Didn't you just come off cycle? Strength numbers aren't static; they change constantly. People are getting stronger.

What I meant was a strength calculator like this http://strengthlevel.com

 

[jswain34]

Lol. That calculator is a joke.

 

[CJNator]

View attachment 141019

Lol. That calculator is a joke.

How so? Have you considered there are people in the general population out there that aren't strong? Most people on this site are stronger then 98% of the general population and that's including moderate lifters too.

Also what are your stats?

 

[jswain34]

How so? Have you considered there are people in the general population out there that aren't strong? Most people on this site are stronger then 98% of the general population and that's including moderate lifters too.

Also what are your stats?

Im dont really compare myself to the regular joe schmo that walks into the gym and fcks around for an hour. I guess that calculator probably takes them into account, which is why i think it's a joke.

My stats are in my profile, i think they're updated. I dont see why thats relevant anyway.

 

[CJNator]

Im dont really compare myself to the regular joe schmo that walks into the gym and fcks around for an hour. I guess that calculator probably takes them into account, which is why i think it's a joke.

My stats are in my profile. I dont see why thats relevant anyway.

Well by definition they are lifters whether or not you consider them to be one, also I just was curious. Those are good numbers you have and the calculator is definitely accurate even if you think it's a joke.

 

[Rodja]

Just LGD, nothing strong compared to any injectable or oral AASs.

Still an exogenous PED. You've taken **** whether or not you want to see it that way. You're no longer a regular lifter once that chasm is jumped.

BTW, there's a ****load of them in the IPF that pull way more than you and they're drug tested. Strength is different than 30-40 years ago. Ever seen what a left tackle looked like in the 80s? Tight ends are bigger and stronger than them now because it's changed.

 

[CJNator]

Still an exogenous PED. You've taken **** whether or not you want to see it that way. You're no longer a regular lifter once that chasm is jumped.

BTW, there's a ****load of them in the IPF that pull way more than you and they're drug tested. Strength is different than 30-40 years ago. Ever seen what a left tackle looked like in the 80s? Tight ends are bigger and stronger than them now because it's changed.

I never claimed to not take a PED nor have I claimed to be a regular lifter plus drug tests are irrelevant, if someone wants to mask the drugs they are on they can if they know how to. I'm comparing myself to the average person in the gym not athletes, obviously there are stronger people then me in sports. Not all PEDs are equal, you can't compare someone who took teen once to someone who took Osta even 3 times.

 

[jswain34]

Not all PEDs are equal, you can't compare someone who took teen once to someone who took Osta even 3 times.

While your first point is true, your second is not. They are both enhanced athletes. You're either enhanced or not. Its on the guy that took osta 3 times instead of tren at that point.

But im unsubbing from this thread. We've derailed the sht out of the ops initial inquiry. Sorry about that op.

 

[mmorso]

Idk what the flame is about guys... CJNator is one of the more humble guys on the forum and he's been called arrogant by guys that don't wanna compare themselves to the average "schmo" that "fcks around in the gym..."

I'm not being critical here guys, since y'all clearly know what the fck you're doing but realize that your on the elite level of lifters and have reached a point were everything has to be dialed in for gainz.

I think there is a larger margin of error for most people looking to get bigger or stronger: the body adapts to resistance training and there is a need to switch it up... R/P training for me would get me so far then I'd plateau and need to change gears.

I've learned a lot from what you've been saying about CNS fatigue as it relates to deadlifting... I didn't realize that it was the most taxing lift but totally makes sense and I'm gonna change my approach to deadlifts.

There are so many conflicting schools of thought out there: I've read sht that states you can max your squat out daily cause it's a "natural human movement.." that sh1t seems questionable but people do squat daily and see gainz. Why? Probably because the body adapts, but what the fck do I know?

Anyways, cheers and thanks for the insight from all parties.

 

[Rodja]

Idk what the flame is about guys... CJNator is one of the more humble guys on the forum and he's been called arrogant by guys that don't wanna compare themselves to the average "schmo" that "fcks around in the gym..."

I'm not being critical here guys, since y'all clearly know what the fck you're doing but realize that your on the elite level of lifters and have reached a point were everything has to be dialed in for gainz.

I think there is a larger margin of error for most people looking to get bigger or stronger: the body adapts to resistance training and there is a need to switch it up... R/P training for me would get me so far then I'd plateau and need to change gears.

I've learned a lot from what you've been saying about CNS fatigue as it relates to deadlifting... I didn't realize that it was the most taxing lift but totally makes sense and I'm gonna change my approach to deadlifts.

There are so many conflicting schools of thought out there: I've read sht that states you can max your squat out daily cause it's a "natural human movement.." that sh1t seems questionable but people do squat daily and see gainz. Why? Probably because the body adapts, but what the fck do I know?

Anyways, cheers and thanks for the insight from all parties.

He's getting flamed for giving bad advice and then trying to justify his bad advice. Simple as that.

The body adapts to each stimulus, which is why there's a need for intelligent periodization. Again, what's being recommended is completely devoid of anything and he thinks a deload week makes it a plan.

 

[CJNator]

He's getting flamed for giving bad advice and then trying to justify his bad advice. Simple as that.

The body adapts to each stimulus, which is why there's a need for intelligent periodization. Again, what's being recommended is completely devoid of anything and he thinks a deload week makes it a plan.

Sorry OP for the derailment, I should have asked for more info and this was hardly a flaming lol just two guys bickering without any actual info on what we speak of, just anecdotes.