Back To The Epi (Havoc), but speculating about stacking!

[gnvch]

Hello guys,
I train about 7 years consistently and I am 26 years old.

- 3 years ago I tried my first cycle, which consists of Epistane (RPN Havoc), some Cycle Support and Tamoxifen @ PCT. I was really satisfied!
- 1 year ago I tried second cycle H-Drol and it was pretty good also.
Then I had my another cycle after 1 year - SARM lgd-4033, but I was absolutely dissapointed with results. And I feel like there was no difference at all after cycle.

Now, I want to do another cycle – Havoc again, because I know how my body reacts to it. I have leftover about 30-40 caps in the bottle from my 3 years old cycle. Can I still use it or it is after warranty yet? (cant find dates on the bottle doe). It was in a dark place in the shelf.

Also, I am speculating about stacking Epi with Dermacrine. Thoughts? I am not exactly sure about stacking Havoc with something else, but I read a lot of comments, that it is a good idea and Dermacrine is really good choice.
My goal is lean body massing with slight caloric surplus. Thanks for your input guys.

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Personally, I would get another bottle of epistane, but many on here would probably disagree. Dermacrine is only a test base, it's overrated in my opinion. Trenavar is apparently a good compound to stack with epistane for cuts/recomps

 

[bigsmall]

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[The Express 42]

Dermacrine is great for a test base and keeping your mood elevated, but it won't do anything to provide more gains. 1 andro would be a good combo, you'll need a good joint support with that combo though.

 

[Jebrook]

All good suggestions in here. Dermacrine won't add much gains but will make some sides more tolerable. Or check out Super DHEA as an alternative to that:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/olympus-uk/284952-sup3r-dhea-q.html

As far as stacking, anything non-methyl is easily doable. And yes, get more Epistane so you can do it right.

 

[DonutGains]

I literally just got done with a 5 week Havoc at 30 straight thru with dermacrine(3pumps daily). In PCT now just running nolva. Libido and lethargy felt fine throughout entire cycle but I realized just how many joints I had in my body cause everyone of them ached. If I do it again I wouldn't bother with the dermacrine and try dermatrest. As far as age I have read epi does not have a good shelf life and likely will lose some potency. Why bother taking the chance. If you're going to take the time, mine as well do it right.

 

[gnvch]

Thanks for suggestions! Still kinda confused with PCT doe. I am kinda paranoid about losing my gains again (like on my first Havoc cycle), so I am not sure about my PCT. Ye, the SERM will do more than enough, but is there any other product, which should help with keeping my gains? I read a lot about some AI product or OCT, but then I read posts on this forum and it seems like a non-logical/bad idea when I have Nolva on hand.
But I aslo read a lot of opinions, that I need cortisol control for keeping my gains and I should add to my PCT Retain2, MassFX or Lean Xtreme. And I read a lot about taking even Ostarine SARM (20) during PCT, which could help too. Im kinda lost here guys :-( Want to give it 100% (ye, nutrition, calories will be on spot)

 

[booneman77]

Thanks for suggestions! Still kinda confused with PCT doe. I am kinda paranoid about losing my gains again (like on my first Havoc cycle), so I am not sure about my PCT. Ye, the SERM will do more than enough, but is there any other product, which should help with keeping my gains? I read a lot about some AI product or OCT, but then I read posts on this forum and it seems like a non-logical/bad idea when I have Nolva on hand.
But I aslo read a lot of opinions, that I need cortisol control for keeping my gains and I should add to my PCT Retain2, MassFX or Lean Xtreme. And I read a lot about taking even Ostarine SARM (20) during PCT, which could help too. Im kinda lost here guys :-( Want to give it 100% (ye, nutrition, calories will be on spot)

DO NOT add osta in pct.. its suppressive.

I'm a huge advocate for cortisol control as I've had nasty issues with that and prolactin from past cycles. I think you've been reading some old threads cause lean extreme has been reformulated (years ago) and no longer has a cort control aspect (its jsut a fat burner). SNS reduce xt is the gold standard these days (and has the same ingredient that og lx did). Also mass fx is pretty much just crap and discontinued iirc.

As for other stuff for pct, I like to add some natty anabolics like xgels (ara) and anabeta elite as I feel it gives me both a mental (pumps and strength stays) edge, as well as helps maintain the gains.

 

[gnvch]

Thank You very much! So I decited run it like this:

CYCLE:
1-6 Epistane (30/30/30/30/45/45)
1-6 Liv52 + Creatine + Fish Oil + Joint Support + CEL Cycle Assist
2-6 Dermacrine 4 Pumps per day

PCT
7-10 Nolva (20/20/10/10)
7-10 DAA (4g/4g/4g/4g)
7-10 Liv52 + Creatine + Fish Oil + Joint Support
7-10 MK677 (30/30/30/30)

Last questions: MK677 by Alphaform Labs or BRAWN? Is there any alternative to Derma? Its out of stock everywhere

 

[gnvch]

Hello guys, I am into fifth week of my Epistane cycle. I gain about 13 pounds, cycle goes pretty well and I had planned another week (overall 6 week cycle). But last 2 days I feel kinda discomfort in my left nipple (little pain when I lie on chest or washing my body/chest in the shower).

Should I screw another (6th) week and start my PCT with Clomid right now? I dont want to have some serious issues! My nipples seems to be fine visually, but those last 2 days making me feared. There is also something hard in that nipple (like gland or something) compared to right nipple.

Thanks in advance!

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Hello guys, I am into fifth week of my Epistane cycle. I gain about 13 pounds, cycle goes pretty well and I had planned another week (overall 6 week cycle). But last 2 days I feel kinda discomfort in my left nipple (little pain when I lie on chest or washing my body/chest in the shower).

Should I screw another (6th) week and start my PCT with Clomid right now? I dont want to have some serious issues! My nipples seems to be fine visually, but those last 2 days making me feared. There is also something hard in that nipple (like gland or something) compared to right nipple.

Thanks in advance!

Do you have nolva/raloxifene or and aromatize inhibitor? If so, you could use that and continue the cycle, but if not, go straight to pct

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Also, is your serm tablet form?

 

[gnvch]

yes, I have nolva and clomid (both in tablet form). So, please, what should I do and how much of it?

 

[Ricky10]

Ah yes; the infamous nip/gyno issue while running Epi/Havoc. People thought I was off the wall when I suggested utilizing some estrogen control during an Epi cycle in a prior thread. This compound does not have the anti-estrogen effects it was originally promoted to have and often causes estrogen related gyno issues. I developed a small, painful lump under my right nipple from a Havoc cycle as well, but I did not stop the cycle. Cleared up in a matter of a week or two into PCT with just Torem. I would not worry too much about it. If I were you, I would continue the cycle....as well as start your Nolvadex at 20 mg.

 

[Zariph]

why are ppl still running PH's instead of injectables? less sides and more pro's

 

[gnvch]

Thanks. So You had same issue? I also taking Dermacrine with my Epi.

I will check my breast every few hours and If its not gonna be worse, I will continue with my cycle. If it will be worse, I will start my Pct with Nolva

 

[Ricky10]

why are ppl still running PH's instead of injectables? less sides and more pro's

Some of them are great! I will never run an Epistane product again though. There is stuff that is so much better, such as DMZ, Methyldiazirinol, and even Androsterone was better for me by a long shot.

 

[Zariph]

Some of them are great! I will never run an Epistane product again though. There is stuff that is so much better, such as DMZ, Methyldiazirinol, and even Androsterone was better for me by a long shot.

ya well...never ran anything myself so cant speak from experience..this is just what i hear from friends etc

 

[AnabolicGuru]

You could continue running the epistane, but add in nolva while doing so

 

[Ricky10]

Thanks. So You had same issue? I also taking Dermacrine with my Epi.

Yes, very similar issue. I also run Dermacrine during most prohormones cycles..have not really come to any conclusion yet as to its effectiveness as a test base for that purpose. I actually like Dermacrine most when not on a prohormones...offers some great pumps, vascularity and strength in its own right. Does not make me "feel" any different though when on prohormones or not. Excellent product though overall. So anyway, the lump tenderness is already there for you. May as well continue on the Epistane and I am willing to bet you will see/feel your nip return to normal quite quickly when adding in the Nolvadex.