First SARM cycle. Ostarine or LGD ?

[EmmanuelT]

Hi,

As mentioned, I am considering a first SARM cycle - this will be my first hormonal experiment - and wondering whether to pick Ostarine or LGD for that matter.

To give you guys a bit of background, I'm 41, 6'1 at 187 pounds with around 18% of body fat.

I've been doing push ups and pull ups on a daily basis since puberty and served in the French Navy for 10 years, which included quite some time in the gym.

Over the past 6 month, I've averaged 4-6 working out sessions per week and plan to keep it there.

My diet could definitely improve - I'm working on it.

Regarding supplements, I take a multi + fish oil + a Pre (Wild Thing or Jacked Up) + Creatine + whey.
I am currently on the 4th week of an 8 week cycle of Anafuse and added X-Gels for the first time this morning.

My goal is to reach 200 pounds with visible abs by next summer - in other words, I want to put on 10 pounds of muscle and get rid of the body fat hiding my core within the next 10 month.

So here is my question:

Since I have no previous experience with hormonal products, should I take a conservative step and run Ostarine to see how my body responds to SARMS or should I go straight for the bulking quality of LGD while taking the risk of a stronger impact in terms of suppression and side effects ?

 

[migseattle]

Since I have no previous experience with hormonal products, should I take a conservative step and run Ostarine to see how my body responds to SARMS or should I go straight for the bulking quality of LGD while taking the risk of a stronger impact in terms of suppression and side effects ?

That's a well formulated question! I think you've nailed the pro/cons of each, and in the end it comes down to what you want to do.

I was right there with you 2 months ago - 46 y.o., first cycle, a bit wary of suppression but wanting the mass. Personally I went with the LGD and I'm loving the results. I'm wrapping up my 8th week and I'm up 15 pounds and if anything a bit leaner. I look bigger and fuller than I've ever been. A couple of things I did - I also ran Dermacrine 3 pumps a day as a mild test base, and while my bloods show that I'm strongly suppressed, I have not felt tired or brain fogged or any of your typical low-T symptoms. My libido was good most of the time and only started to suffer a bit last week - weaker erections, no morning wood etc.

I'm also prepared to run a full 4-week PCT (Clomid + Nolva, with Exemestane on hand in case of high estrogen symptoms). Another thing you'll want to consider is that LGD will affect your cholesterol levels -- lowering your good cholesterol (HDL) and raising your bad (LDL). In my case, total cholesterol stayed within range but the balance is out of whack. You may want to look into supplements to help manage your cholesterol while on cycle (which is something I didn't do). I've heard good things about Talos and I'll probably use it if I ever cycle LGD again. I've read that cholesterol sorts itself out shortly after you end your run... we shall see.

I've been reading a lot about Ostarine and I'm definitely curious. I'll probably try it on my next cycle in a few months (maybe stacked with S4 and GW?) to see how it compares. Osta and S4 are suppressive as well but considerably less so than LGD.

Good luck man. I think you're going to love your results either way. Just be diligent and do bloods before, mid-cycle and after to know where you're at. Include lipids, liver values and hormones. Guesswork is not good

 

[EmmanuelT]

Thanks a lot mate for the solid insights.
I like the sound of 15 lean pounds in 8 weeks, too - I'd love to read about your post PCT conclusions.

Not familiar yet with Dermacrine but will definitely digg the topic and, indeed, be diligent with bloods.

The more I think about it - since I am going to be suppressed and have to deal with bloods and PCT either way, and since adding mass is my priority - the more I feel LGD might indeed be a good fit.

Anyway I'll wait for the end of my Anafuse and X-Gels session to start the SARM cycle, which leaves me with a bit of time to chew on this.

 

[migseattle]

I should be getting post-cycle bloods results Monday or Tuesday and I'll circle back.

One other thing I thought about mentioning - dosing. Following several recommendations in different forums, I tapered up - 5/5/8/10/12/12/15/15. While this was good at giving me peace of mind by seeing how my body adjusted, in hindsight I wish I'd gotten to 10-12 sooner. My guess is that the initial sudden jump in weight (due to water and glycogen intake into the muscles) would have happened more quickly, allowing me to ramp up my workout intensity and volume sooner therefore maximizing the benefits of the cycle. Just a thought. I still want to learn more about the processes that go on inside the muscles during a cycle. Water and glycogen saturation are going to be lost after coming off, for sure, so how to maximize the "real" gains is what's important.

Fascinating stuff. And addicting

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Id run ostarine at 10mg/day and utilise a 500sh kcal deficit. That will lean you out whilst maintaining muscle mass.

But, just going by your OP and reaction to the feedback on LGD you will likely go the "easy" lazy route, not put in the required effort and discipline a consistent kcal deficit requires, and bank on LGD doing most of the work for you.

At least get an AI and SERM.

 

[EmmanuelT]

I hear you, migseattle, on the addicting aspect - it feels like for every step you take, 10 new doors open while the chances to go back to softer products drop
Anyway, looking forward to reading your feedback.
And yes, dosing. As well as a proper PCT. Still got some reading to do myself.

 

[SunsGuns]

Curious to hear more thoughts/results from either of you guys on your SARMS experience(s)? EmmanuelT did you wind up doing LGD? What did you decide for PCT/test base etc?

I'm prepping to start my own first sarms cycle in the next month or so and would love to hear recent thoughts? As in this thread, I'm leaning towards LGD because I want to add some lean mass as my main goal. Reading conflicting things regarding test base/pct - right now I"m thinking androvar as a test base and HCG for PCT...as I understand it, a lot of people say you don't need full PCT after a SARMS only cycle, so I'm hoping this will be enough? I'm 36, 5'9" 170lb around 14/15% body fat. Thanks for any tips or wisdom you can share!

 

[justhere4comm]

Re LGD. Gw helps your lipid profile while Ar1macare Pro for example works to support liver function.

 

[bobthejack]

I have done LGD and Osterine cycles.

Neither of these did anything spectacular for me, lgd did give me a nice sense of wellbeing and definitely the upbeat mood I was in made me excited to go to the gym but as far as athletic performance I didn't notice anything that a good nights sleep, correct diet and creatine doesn't do, elevated mood along with a slight bump in sex drive and zero negative effects.

Osterine on the other hand seemed to be great for 2 weeks with some decent aggression in the gym but I was tired all the time and had to bail on it after 4 weeks as I was shut down fcuk.

Used otc pct for both but don't think it was necessary for the ldg but did it anyway. Should have got a serm for Ostarine as took me 6 weeks to feel like a human again and another 3 or 4 to get sex drive back.

 

[xGetxLeanX]

If I were you I would do what NewAgeMayan suggested. Slight cut/recomp with Ostarine

 

[SunsGuns]

Well, I've been trying for 15 minutes to reply to you guys, but it keeps telling me post denied because too many urls and/or forbidden words (none of which were in my reply) - so I deleted my original replies that went into more detail about my plans - I'll just say thanks (hopefully nothing in this reply will set off a red flag).

 

[SunsGuns]

I have done lgd and osterine cycles.

Neither of these did anything spectacular for me, lgd did give me a nice sense of wellbeing and definitely the upbeat mood I was in made me excited to go to the gym but as far as athletic performance I didn't notice anything that a good nights sleep, correct diet and creatine doesn't do, elevated mood along with a slight bump in sex drive and zero negative effects.

osterine on the other hand seemed to be great for 2 weeks with some decent aggression in the gym but I was tired all the time and had to bail on it after 4 weeks as I was shut down fcuk.

Used otc pct for both but don't think it was necessary for the ldg but did it anyway. Should have got a serm for ostarine as took me 6 weeks to feel like a human again and another 3 or 4 to get sex drive back.

Cool, thanks for sharing your experiences. Seems to be the opposite of what I've read from others for the most part - that lgd is the more intense/suppressive of the sarms and that pct is a must for lgd but not necessary for osterine...not doubting your personal experience at all, just goes to show that it's hard to predict what to stack/cycle/recover with when everyone's bodies and metabolisms are obviously very different.

Re lgd. Gw helps your lipid profile while ar1macare pro for example works to support liver function.

thanks also for the input, assuming those would be for cycle support while running lgd...after doing some more reading/thinking I was now leaning towards dermacrine for test base and liquiClo (clomid from sarms1) for pct...I've read that about the gw but I ultimately want to add some muscle, more so than cut the fat, and as I understand it gw is primarily used for cutting.

If I were you I would do what NewAgeMayan suggested. Slight cut/recomp with ostarine

- again, thanks for the input. Maybe I'll try the ostarine instead of the lgd as it's my first sarms cycle and it seems to be less suppressive than lgd...but as I said above, mainly looking to bulk lean muscle, rather than cut/recomp. I actually run a lot, and have a fairly easy time cutting down to six pack body fat levels...hardest part is keeping my diet clean! Mainly looking to the sarms to help bulk up a bit as I'm a bit of a hardgainer (I'm lucky in the sense that even in my 30s I can eat pretty much whatever I want and not have to worry about getting fat). I've read a lot of posts from people who say the put on anywhere from 5-15 lbs of lean mass on an lgd cycle, which is essentially what I'm looking for...

 

[SunsGuns]

I guess the problem was I was addressing you guys with the "@" and your screen name and it wouldn't let me do that...newb mistake I guess

 

[bobthejack]

Cool, thanks for sharing your experiences. Seems to be the opposite of what I've read from others for the most part - that lgd is the more intense/suppressive of the sarms and that pct is a must for lgd but not necessary for osterine...not doubting your personal experience at all, just goes to show that it's hard to predict what to stack/cycle/recover with when everyone's bodies and metabolisms are obviously very different.




thanks also for the input, assuming those would be for cycle support while running lgd...after doing some more reading/thinking I was now leaning towards dermacrine for test base and liquiClo (clomid from sarms1) for pct...I've read that about the gw but I ultimately want to add some muscle, more so than cut the fat, and as I understand it gw is primarily used for cutting.



- again, thanks for the input. Maybe I'll try the ostarine instead of the lgd as it's my first sarms cycle and it seems to be less suppressive than lgd...but as I said above, mainly looking to bulk lean muscle, rather than cut/recomp. I actually run a lot, and have a fairly easy time cutting down to six pack body fat levels...hardest part is keeping my diet clean! Mainly looking to the sarms to help bulk up a bit as I'm a bit of a hardgainer (I'm lucky in the sense that even in my 30s I can eat pretty much whatever I want and not have to worry about getting fat). I've read a lot of posts from people who say the put on anywhere from 5-15 lbs of lean mass on an lgd cycle, which is essentially what I'm looking for...

Yeah everyone is different most people seem to love Ostarine which is why I was looking forward to it, and also you never know the quality of the stuff I could have got some sh*t stuff from a dodgy supplier. I'm in the uk most people on here seem to be USA so can't always try the same products as what these guys get. Good luck

 

[EmmanuelT]

Hello guys,

Well, I ended doing a 6 week cycle of OL UK Ostar1ne.
And then a cycle of LGD & EpiAndro - I am in the 4th week as I am typing this and it is going great.

With Ostar1ne, I started at 10mg and bumped up the dose each week : 15, 20, 25 and 30 mg.
The compound delivered, putting on a fair bit of muscle, shedding the fat off and... suppressing the sh*t out of me (I am not allowed to insert links but you can read my post here on AM about it: "Suppressed from Ostarine. How do I fight back?").

My mistake was not using any test base.
When I started feeling the suppression - zero energy / zero libido / let's stay in bed and be sad until gym time - I ordered a bottle of OL UK Sup3r DHEA.
Within 3 days, I went back to feeling great, which allowed me to push to cycle to its end.
Results : leaner and more defined, but not bigger. Which was my first goal.

So I kept running the transdermal DHEA as a standalone for about 2 weeks after the end of the Ostarine cycle and went straight into an OL UK LeGenD and OL UK Sup3r Epi cycle = LGD & EpiAndro.

I know. Bad move.
Should have done PCT and time off prior to adding more anabolic compounds into my already suppressed self.
The bloods I had done before the ostarine cycle showed that I was just above the lower range of the scale, testosterone wise. Ostarine kicked me lower, which means that I am now I a candidate for TRT. Which, being 42, may very well be the route I fill follow.

Anyway, I am currently at the end of the 4th week of LGD & EpiAndro and this cycle, so far, is going the right way, if you ask me:
I am bigger that I have ever been.
I keep getting comments from relatives about how big I am now, and even random people I've just met ask me how often I work out, etc.

In order to test the water, I started with 4mg LGD & 250mg Epi on week 1, went up to 8 & 500 on week 2, then 12 & 500 on week 3 and plan to try 16mg LGD as of next week.

I did try 750mg Epi twice, but it turns me into an anxious mess - I can feel my heart beat all day long...
500 mg Epi is the sweet spot for me.

Side effects?
No lethargy, great libido.
But hunger.
I did not know what being hungry meant before LGD.
Consequence: a bit of belly fat came back.
It'll be taken care of with a further cycle of Ostarine

 

[EmmanuelT]

bobthejack: I am in France myself, and do order Ostarine and LGD from UK based stores that deliver Olympus Labs Ostarine and LGD - consensus being that this brand is one you can trust.
Having tried both their Ostar1ne and LeGenD (LGD), I confirm both compounds are good. And I have no interest whatsoever in Olympus Labs' business.
Feel free to send me a PM regarding those UK stores mate.

 

[DUbz86]

I'd say Andro run before sarms