Injectable replacement for tren during a strength cycle

[BigNerd]

How's it going? I'm new here, but not a newbie. My name is Joe, and I'm in NY. I know the title of this Q may make it look like I'm new, but what I mean is, I like tren, but I hate the side effects. I also don't like using orals too much. So, I'm wondering if there's an injectable that will give me similar strength gains to tren. I know, I could just swallow some anadrol and call it a day, but I drink...pretty heavily. Never had a problem with jaundice etc, and my liver enzymes aren't too high. I also don't want my head to look like a ****ing medicine ball.

I don't care about impotence, the type people complain about with deca and tren. Never, ever had that problem. Even when going pretty hard on either. But, I always run test/anastrozole alongside, so that may help.

If what I'm asking is beyond the realm of reason, I'm open to suggestions If an oral is my only real option, ya know, outside using 2,000 mgs of test per week, please give me as much info as you can. What to run alongside, keeping the liver working (I always use lecithin, milk thistle, and NAC all of the time, on or off. I also ****ing hate ampoules.

If you have a suggestion, please tell me the pros/cons of any specific ester. I understand ester lengths, but I know some gear works better depending on how it's cut.

Seriously, no reply is too long. I want all of the info ya got.

This is for strength alone. I understand there will be weight gain, but that's not my aim. The things I dislike about tren, though it's been my friend for five years now, are the cysts, ya know, wrecking my face and skin (another thing I dislike about orals). The easier on the blood work, the better.

Thanks in advance

 

[2kvette]

dienolone

 

[Dma378]

Masteron.

Not quite Tren strength gains, but definitely a strength and aggression boost on top of Test. With a bunch of other benefits too in my opinion.

Easy on sides (compared to Tren) and generally a "feel good" compound.

 

[BigNerd]

Masteron.

Not quite Tren strength gains, but definitely a strength and aggression boost on top of Test. With a bunch of other benefits too in my opinion.

Easy on sides (compared to Tren) and generally a "feel good" compound.

Yeah, I like Masteron a lot. I don't have the desire to inject as often, so I usually use mast enanthate. The one thing I love about it is the increased muscular endurance. I also like the estrogen antagonism. I don't always use anastrozole when I stack mast and test.
I'd kinda forgotten about this, so thanks, brother.

Do you think I'm making a mistake using the enanthate over a propionate?

 

[BigNerd]

dienolone

Not really a stand alone, though, right. I know it's chemically very similar to tren, except it can be aromatized, as well as 5 alpha reduced.

 

[Dma378]

Yeah, I like Masteron a lot. I don't have the desire to inject as often, so I usually use mast enanthate. The one thing I love about it is the increased muscular endurance. I also like the estrogen antagonism. I don't always use anastrozole when I stack mast and test.
I'd kinda forgotten about this, so thanks, brother.

Do you think I'm making a mistake using the enanthate over a propionate?

No way!! I prefer Mast E over Prop too. Libido, anti-E, strength, pump, hardening, makes Test more available...it really adds so much to a cycle. 500+ mg/week of E is tits.

 

[mjdel05]

Maybe 1 test if available

 

[2kvette]

Not really a stand alone, though, right. I know it's chemically very similar to tren, except it can be aromatized, as well as 5 alpha reduced.

The A ring can not aromatize due to it being in conjugation with the -ene on the B ring.



O Chem bitches!

 

[rascal14]

The A ring can not aromatize due to it being in conjugation with the -ene on the B ring.



O Chem bitches!

Dang, just barely beat me to it!!

 

[2kvette]

Dang, just barely beat me to it!!

Nice, you in medicine too? or chemist?

 

[rascal14]

Nice, you in medicine too? or chemist?

No I'm in Construction Science, I was actually joking because I had no clue what any of it meant, it went right over my head.. Lol sarcasm doesn't work too well on here.

 

[fueledpassion]

Have you ever tried Tren with 50mcg of T3 daily and a low carb diet? Sides disappear overnight especially if you have an Ace-II handy for blood pressure/water retention.

Keep estrogen in check by using less Aromatizing steroids, moderate T3 usage and limit carbs to training period only for energy. MCT oil also works as an alternative to carbs for strength. Tren becomes all but benign with this approach.

 

[2kvette]

Have you ever tried Tren with 50mcg of T3 daily and a low carb diet? Sides disappear overnight especially if you have an Ace-II handy for blood pressure/water retention.

Keep estrogen in check by using less Aromatizing steroids, moderate T3 usage and limit carbs to training period only for energy. MCT oil also works as an alternative to carbs for strength. Tren becomes all but benign with this approach.

Seriously? Is this true???? My dad used to love tren but hated the sides... If this is true, you shall now be known as the oracle for your wisdom.

 

[fueledpassion]

Yes I'm being serious. No night sweats. No insomnia. No BP issues. Although aggression is still there.

Also highly recommend Nattokinase while on Tren.

 

[BigNerd]

Have you ever tried Tren with 50mcg of T3 daily and a low carb diet? Sides disappear overnight especially if you have an Ace-II handy for blood pressure/water retention.

Keep estrogen in check by using less Aromatizing steroids, moderate T3 usage and limit carbs to training period only for energy. MCT oil also works as an alternative to carbs for strength. Tren becomes all but benign with this approach.

I'll give that a shot. Last time I ran it I just ran test and a little anastrozole (for the test, obviously). I like running some straight test with anything. For water retention I really like amiloride/hydrochlorothiazide. I won't use furosemide. Takes too much potassium out of me. Plus, I have a script for it. I love the potassium sparing properties.

I'm doing my PCT now with HCG, HMG (not a lot- it's****ing expensive) tamoxifen citrate, anastrozole, and this new **** (well, new to me) that's amazing- GW 501516. It's a good SARM, but it really, really cleans up the blood work. Seems to straighten out the cholesterol ratio while lowering triglycerides.

Some good info, thanks.

 

[Gutterpump]

Yes I'm being serious. No night sweats. No insomnia. No BP issues. Although aggression is still there.

Also highly recommend Nattokinase while on Tren.

I can verify this. I took the same approach and have 0 sides but some mild aggression. What really surprised me was the lack of night sweats. Deca had me sweating up a storm, but back then I was also running high test, and lots of carbs. Currently low carb and TRT level of test, and epistane which helps even more with sides since tren likes lowered estrogen.

 

[Cole Dreyer]

With already running 2g of test a week I am wondering how much more strength to expect to get from adding in another compound? Assuming your training is programmed appropriately for strength increase and you are eating properly and resting enough to recover I would think your numbers would be sky high.

Unless they already are topping out and you have maximized training programming and nutrition/rest and losing for that last little bit?

What kind of strength gains are you looking for? Are you competing in PL? Just trying to hit certain numbers? What does your training look like now?

 

[BigNerd]

With already running 2g of test a week I am wondering how much more strength to expect to get from adding in another compound? Assuming your training is programmed appropriately for strength increase and you are eating properly and resting enough to recover I would think your numbers would be sky high.

Unless they already are topping out and you have maximized training programming and nutrition/rest and losing for that last little bit?

What kind of strength gains are you looking for? Are you competing in PL? Just trying to hit certain numbers? What does your training look like now?

Oh, no, I'm not running anywhere near that much test. That was just a hypothetical. I generally never run more than 400 mg per week, and that's high.
Yes, I'm a competitive powerlifter. It's not so much that I'm looking for gigantic strength gains. Just moderate gains as I go.
I love tren, but hate the side effects. So, that's really the gist of my question. An injectable that performs similarly.

 

[Cole Dreyer]

Oh, no, I'm not running anywhere near that much test. That was just a hypothetical. I generally never run more than 400 mg per week, and that's high.
Yes, I'm a competitive powerlifter. It's not so much that I'm looking for gigantic strength gains. Just moderate gains as I go.
I love tren, but hate the side effects. So, that's really the gist of my question. An injectable that performs similarly.

I am sorry I misunderstood your OP. And its good to hear that your not looking for some crazy magic that will put 100lbs on your squat overnight or something haha.

Since you PL, hypothetically I would think some kind of nandrolone (deca or app) would certainly aid in something strength gains. For guys who compete in PL I just don't ever see a need for any other injectables other then test, some kind of nandrolone, tren if they can handle it at times, and maybe some EQ.

I know someone mentioned they got great strength from masteron and you could always try that too if you wanted. This is all hypothetical of course and my observations.

 

[bad rad]

As others have said Masteron is good replacement. I get much more aggressive on it compared to Tren.

 

[criticalbench]

Mind fuked that nobody has mentioned NPP. It is relatively dry, awesome fullness, vascularity, and great strength gains.

Although closely related to deca, it is far different, the two can not even be compared.

 

[criticalbench]

Masteron can not hold a candle to npp when comparing to tren.

Masteron is one of my favorite hormones in prep the last few weeks, if at very low bodyfat, but if not in that situation, masteron really doesn't shine at all like npp or tren.

 

[fueledpassion]

Oh, no, I'm not running anywhere near that much test. That was just a hypothetical. I generally never run more than 400 mg per week, and that's high.
Yes, I'm a competitive powerlifter. It's not so much that I'm looking for gigantic strength gains. Just moderate gains as I go.
I love tren, but hate the side effects. So, that's really the gist of my question. An injectable that performs similarly.

Dienolone Acetate, if you can find some. It will give Tren-like strength. Honestly, 700mg/wk of Dienolone is considerably stronger than 350mg/wk of Tren-A...

It is wet though so no need running high dose of Test with it. 1:2 ratio would be fine.

DTA was also ridiculous for me. At my strongest on this stuff, I was able to bench press 225 X 17 reps when I only weighed in at 162lbs. I never maxed out as I was in contest prep and was pretty dry. I imagine my max was at its greatest then though and probably somewhere around 340lbs on bench press.

I have not tried NPP and was planning on using it this season if it weren't for the fact that I have a good portion of Dienolone left to use up. That stuff is potent in all ways when you take 1cc/day or more.

 

[Dma378]

I have 30ml of NPP on hand to start here in about 6 weeks. Just haven't used it yet to recommend.

 

[Godstrength]

For strength and size test and deca stack tried and true... Npp would work as well with the shorter ester. Either would be a good replacement for tren IMO. Since npp has a short Ester cycle layouts can be similar to run with tren a. Deca is long acting and takes a long time to clear the system

Also for strength- test equipoise winstrol. Great combo for sheer strength. The eq and winstrol have a mean synergy. More of a lean body combo though. Not sure how this would work with someone with higher bf. But real good for strength at low bf%.

 

[BigNerd]

That sounds like a pretty good plan. I'd probably tweak it a bit, but good info.

Not to slight anyone else in this thread. Lots of great information coming out. Very much appreciated, brothers (and sisters, if applicable).

Lots of people recommending dienolone. I'll definitely look into that in the future.
Not familiar with NPP at all. I may know it by its full name, not its acronym.

 

[BigNerd]

225x17@162? Wow, that's nuts! I used to be in the 165 class about twenty years ago. I was clean back then. I didn't start gear 'til I was 41. I'm kinda glad I waited.
Otherwise, good info, dude.

 

[Godstrength]

That sounds like a pretty good plan. I'd probably tweak it a bit, but good info.

Not to slight anyone else in this thread. Lots of great information coming out. Very much appreciated, brothers (and sisters, if applicable).

Lots of people recommending dienolone. I'll definitely look into that in the future.
Not familiar with NPP at all. I may know it by its full name, not its acronym.

NPP- nandrolone phenylpropionate

Deca- nandrolone decanoate

The difference is the Ester but really makes these 2 compounds worlds apart. Same compound different ester.
NPP is in and out of your system quickly, deca lurks for up to 6 weeks after last use before it clears the system entirely.

 

[Gutterpump]

Dienolone Acetate, if you can find some. It will give Tren-like strength. Honestly, 700mg/wk of Dienolone is considerably stronger than 350mg/wk of Tren-A...

It is wet though so no need running high dose of Test with it. 1:2 ratio would be fine.

DTA was also ridiculous for me. At my strongest on this stuff, I was able to bench press 225 X 17 reps when I only weighed in at 162lbs. I never maxed out as I was in contest prep and was pretty dry. I imagine my max was at its greatest then though and probably somewhere around 340lbs on bench press.

I have not tried NPP and was planning on using it this season if it weren't for the fact that I have a good portion of Dienolone left to use up. That stuff is potent in all ways when you take 1cc/day or more.

Is it still possible to get dien ace elsewhere besides the main place it was available at? I've only ever seen it there but I'd love to get me some, especially if they brew it with ethyl oleate. The other stuff gave me bad reactions if it wasn't cut with something else.

 

[fueledpassion]

Is it still possible to get dien ace elsewhere besides the main place it was available at? I've only ever seen it there but I'd love to get me some, especially if they brew it with ethyl oleate. The other stuff gave me bad reactions if it wasn't cut with something else.

I have no idea but I haven't looked around for raws either.

The stuff I have hurts pretty bad but the results are fast. Watery as a mug but strength and mass gains are phenomenal to say the least.

 

[Gutterpump]

I have no idea but I haven't looked around for raws either.

The stuff I have hurts pretty bad but the results are fast. Watery as a mug but strength and mass gains are phenomenal to say the least.

Dien is wet for you? I've read this from some others as well. It was very dry for me! But I ran it the same way I'm running tren, lowered carbs, low test base.

 

[ambulldog]

Maybe 1 test if available

It is and that was gonna be my reccomendation along with mast or high dosed primo

 

[fueledpassion]

Dien is wet for you? I've read this from some others as well. It was very dry for me! But I ran it the same way I'm running tren, lowered carbs, low test base.

Well, I also ran it at 200mg/day...

It's wet up there in the stratosphere.

At 350-700mg/wk, not so much.

Like I've said before, Dien is totally dose-dependent on results too.

350mg/wk = sustainable, somewhat enjoyable

700mg/wk = strong, sustainable for 4-6 weeks at a time (IMO)

1000+ = ridiculous, blood pressure gets high, but size, pumps and strength are also markedly increased

Besides, most steroids are wet because of their interaction with the renin-aldosterone system, not because of estrogen-related interactions. So if I ever do it again, I'll be running ACE-II's and a thiazide diuretic to keep the water off. In fact, I will run it again, right around the time I decide to do my hyperplasic experiment on my triceps using GHRP/CJC/BPC in a localized fashion. But this will be well after I've packed on the 40lbs of weight that everyone on this forum said I couldn't do in a single bulking season. I'm already half-way there and I haven't even begun to try.

 

[Gutterpump]

Well, I also ran it at 200mg/day...

It's wet up there in the stratosphere.

At 350-700mg/wk, not so much.

Oh wow! lol how did you feel on that dose? 600mg/week made me completely amped and a bit nutty lol. but it was fun

 

[Gutterpump]

It is and that was gonna be my reccomendation along with mast or high dosed primo

1-T is so hard to find now Seems the raws are hard to come by these days too

 

[ambulldog]

1-T is so hard to find now Seems the raws are hard to come by these days too

Not if you know where to look

 

[fueledpassion]

Oh wow! lol how did you feel on that dose? 600mg/week made me completely amped and a bit nutty lol. but it was fun

Felt like I was about to die at times, but these moments were not while lifting, lol. I only did it for a few days. My prostate and kidneys were in serious trouble. Stuff is probably better at 100 EOD or 75 ED. In fact, 75 ED is probably where I will land. Likely to have Prop with it to keep water weight down.

 

[criticalbench]

Is also prefer primo over masteron. Var at a good dose would be suitable also.

 

[Gutterpump]

Felt like I was about to die at times, but these moments were not while lifting, lol. I only did it for a few days. My prostate and kidneys were in serious trouble. Stuff is probably better at 100 EOD or 75 ED. In fact, 75 ED is probably where I will land. Likely to have Prop with it to keep water weight down.

I had a lot of fun with 100mg/daily. One of my favorite compounds.

 

[BigNerd]

NPP- nandrolone phenylpropionate

Deca- nandrolone decanoate

The difference is the Ester but really makes these 2 compounds worlds apart. Same compound different ester.
NPP is in and out of your system quickly, deca lurks for up to 6 weeks after last use before it clears the system entirely.

This makes good sense. A fast acting nortestosterone. I think this, combined with masteron enanthate (I'd start that before the NPP) id probably the route I'd take.
Like most of the other guys here, I'm having trouble locating dienolone from a trusted source.

 

[Gutterpump]

Trest ace is the best alternative to tren, it's actually better than tren and everything else listed, but tough to get currently.

 

[BigNerd]

Okay, my mind is made up. I'm gonna run NPP alongside Masteron enanthate, a bit of testosterone (test prop, isocaproate, decanoate). Even though I'm using the Masteron, still gonna run anastrozole. I don't want any of the NPP to aromatize! Nor estrogen's not my idea of a good cycle. Unless it starts to rape my joints, of course.

Thanks for all of the great input, guys. I'll stop back a few weeks in (still don't have it, but it's on order), and let everyone know how it's going.

 

[123abcabcabc]

Injectable MENT (Trestolone Acetate) blows Tren out of the water.

 

[BigNerd]

Injectable MENT (Trestolone Acetate) blows Tren out of the water.

Pretty much the same sides, though, right? That's the only reason I'm looking t'ward another drug. Even Masteron, being modeled after DHT, didn't **** up my blood work as badly as tren. Methyl drostanolone, yeah, just as bad. Never used anything that blows ten out of the water for strength. I'm not willing to use anadrol, either.


Plus, trest can aromatize, right? I'm skeptical about trestolone.

Well, at least for now the cycle will be NPP, Mast enanthate. Test prop, isocaproate, decanoate and anastrozole twice per week. Small doses, too. I'm not a pro and can't justify using hellish amounts.

 

[2kvette]

Pretty much the same sides, though, right? That's the only reason I'm looking t'ward another drug. Even Masteron, being modeled after DHT, didn't **** up my blood work as badly as tren. Methyl drostanolone, yeah, just as bad. Never used anything that blows ten out of the water for strength. I'm not willing to use anadrol, either.


Plus, trest can aromatize, right? I'm skeptical about trestolone.

Well, at least for now the cycle will be NPP, Mast enanthate. Test prop, isocaproate, decanoate and anastrozole twice per week. Small doses, too. I'm not a pro and can't justify using hellish amounts.

NPP can't aromatize, no progestin can, there is no such thing as nor estrogen, all estrogens are carbon 19 absent. The gyno comes from increased fluid retention that is tissue specific b/c 19-nor steroids will bind and activate the progesterone receptor.

 

[fueledpassion]

One thing to point out about hormones that "cant aromatize". Directly converting - this is true. However, I find that Dienolone finds ways to give nipple issues and wster retention. Prolactin? Perhaps. But estrogen INCREASES while on Dienolone much like it will on Deca.

Regarding Trestolone - it's really not that hard to manage. If you have pharma grade Arimidex or Aromasin you will be fine with rather little of it.

Its when u try to use that cheap, research chem crap is when problems come about. Sides from Trest are constant sweating around meal time, sweating during lifting but night sweats are not as bad as Tren, IMO. You get less strength gains but more mass gains. Fat burning is similar but like anything, your diet makes all the difference with that.

It will make you hungry but I've noticed that aggression is considerably more manageable than Tren aggression.

 

[Gutterpump]

It will make you hungry but I've noticed that aggression is considerably more manageable than Tren aggression.

Then there's people like me who get almost no sides from tren. I compared 350mg/week of Trest ace to 350mg of tren ace (both times running a low dose of test) and I found no major rise in aggression at all. Trest made me fvkc like an animal (was way more intense), and tren made me want it all the time lol... But this isn't typical for most people I don't think.

Trest offered more mass though, you're right. I want to run them both together soon

 

[2kvette]

One thing to point out about hormones that "cant aromatize". Directly converting - this is true. However, I find that Dienolone finds ways to give nipple issues and wster retention. Prolactin? Perhaps. But estrogen INCREASES while on Dienolone much like it will on Deca.

Regarding Trestolone - it's really not that hard to manage. If you have pharma grade Arimidex or Aromasin you will be fine with rather little of it.

Its when u try to use that cheap, research chem crap is when problems come about. Sides from Trest are constant sweating around meal time, sweating during lifting but night sweats are not as bad as Tren, IMO. You get less strength gains but more mass gains. Fat burning is similar but like anything, your diet makes all the difference with that.

It will make you hungry but I've noticed that aggression is considerably more manageable than Tren aggression.

Yes dienolone is a progestin, and much like the estrogen receptor, the progestin receptor will cause the breast tissue to swell. It looks like gyno but it's not. No tissue will differentiate or grow.

 

[fueledpassion]

Then there's people like me who get almost no sides from tren. I compared 350mg/week of Trest ace to 350mg of tren ace (both times running a low dose of test) and I found no major rise in aggression at all. Trest made me fvkc like an animal (was way more intense), and tren made me want it all the time lol... But this isn't typical for most people I don't think.

Trest offered more mass though, you're right. I want to run them both together soon

Trest and Tren is just greedy but to be honest, I'm probably gonna do that for the first half of my contest prep, lol. Something like 25mg/day of each should suffice.

When combined with Phenibut on occasion, it's real easy to please the lady partner. In fact, it's difficult to not go all fantasy mode on her in the middle of the night, lol. Trest is good in this way but I also have a dab of Masteron-E in there to intensify the drive.

 

[fueledpassion]

Yes dienolone is a progestin, and much like the estrogen receptor, the progestin receptor will cause the breast tissue to swell. It looks like gyno but it's not. No tissue will differentiate or grow.

I would like to agree, except that the one study the FDA did with Dienolone showed a large increase in estrogen and that given my experience with Dienolone, an AI fixes all the issues with it. I realize it "can't convert" to estrogen but what I am saying is that it finds another mechanism of action to increase it. This I am certain of.

Dienolone has been a great reminder to the endocrine-science community that they don't have it all figured out just yet. You have to approach biological science (or any science) with this mindset. Just because 99.99% of all other hormones like it can't increase estrogen doesn't mean that this one has to follow those same pathways or rules. I also know that being IM acetate form, it behaves very differently from the transdermal or the pro-dienolone. Very different! So if you are basing your science and experience on that anecdotal experience with TD Dien or pro-Dien, don't.

We're talking about a nor hormone that chemically "is impossible to convert to estrogen" yet increases estrogen & prolactin and makes your balls bigger with more semen output as well. While Tren and Deca shrink you up, this stuff swells the nutsack when you take doses upwards of 700mg/wk. It defies common logic behind steroid use/interaction with the body.