Clomid standalone dosing (possibly with arimistane)

[tyrub42]

Hi everyone,

I found out recently that Clomid is OTC in this country and cheaper than I could have imagined (40 cents per 50mg pill). I have heard that it is useful as a standalone to reduce E2 and boost test. Seems like side effects are pretty mild or non-existent at lower doses, so I figure it might be worth a shot. I have read conflicting stuff online about the pros and cons, and also whether or not it would be useful if I didn't have low test to begin with, so I decided to make a thread about it. The doses that I am seeing on forums are usually either 50mg per day, 50 mg every other day, 25 mg per day, or 50mg per day for a week or so and then 25 per day after that. Does anyone have info about it as a standalone, or experience running it that way?

I also have some arimistane laying around that I could run with it; would that be a good idea? If so, what doses would work well (guessing 50 clomid and 75 arimistane would be way too much).

Last time I got my test checked it was on the lower end of normal, free test was on the low side, E2 was a little high, and SHBG was on he high side as well. No anabolic experience, but have run lighter hormonal stuff like arimistane and osta before.

Thanks for the input! With all the clomid info out there, there isn't too much for it as a standalone.

Also if this is the wrong forum since it's a prescription, please let me know and I'll delete the thread. Didn't seem to make sense in the anabolics forum, but I don't want to get myself banned!

Thanks for any input!!!

Best,
Tyler

 

[knock]

Dont talk about Arimistane here I like Arimistane but you will find out that you get negative comments about it in here

 

[tyrub42]

Haha really? Dang, haven't been on AM in awhile, but it used to be all the rage. It's the old Erase active right? Man times have changed I guess.

 

[knock]

Yes, people comment raped me when i comment some guysi cycle that "its ok to use it" I have use it as standalone with natural t boosters its ok

 

[tyrub42]

Oh nice, you mean arimistane or clomid? I've used arimistane before but never clomid. Thanks!

 

[dvw]

I have run clomid for 60 days at 25 mgs every day and work very well, Use SNS inhibit -e every day also.This could. potentially double your test.

 

[knock]

Yes i mean arimistane, just go for it Its Your body and everyone learns their own bodys when they try new things.

 

[tyrub42]

I have run clomid for 60 days at 25 mgs every day and work very well, Use SNS inhibit -e every day also.This could. potentially double your test.

awesome, thanks so much! So you used 25mg clomid and a full dose of inhibit e together?

 

[dvw]

Yes

 

[kisaj]

Dont talk about Arimistane here I like Arimistane but you will find out that you get negative comments about it in here

Haha, the tide turns so much around here. I was one of the first to poo poo on Arimistane and I took my lashings from the minions that were in love with it at the time. There will always be the next thing.

 

[pharrison1]

Where are yu getting Clomid ? Over the counter?

 

[tyrub42]

Where are yu getting Clomid ? Over the counter?

I live in Taiwan (sorry, it used to have those stats next to my profile pic back in the day)

 

[dvw]

He most likely meant research chemical.

 

[dvw]

Arimastane is more similar to 7-keto dhea, lowers cortisol more than e2

 

[tyrub42]

He most likely meant research chemical.

Just the corner pharmacy. Definitely a strange set of pros and cons living here.

 

[alwaysfirst]

I would do (and done) 25mg eod and not everyday. Do short cycles, 3-4 weeks and you should get a little boost.

And yes, arimistane is useless for E control, it's not totally useless as a supplement though.

I have a similar thread in the anabolic section.

 

[pharrison1]

Dam thought you lived in US

 

[tyrub42]

I would do (and done) 25mg eod and not everyday. Do short cycles, 3-4 weeks and you should get a little boost.

And yes, arimistane is useless for E control, it's not totally useless as a supplement though.

I have a similar thread in the anabolic section.

Nice, the eod makes sense because of the half life. Yeah sure might as well start with that. 25mg eod it is. Found some forskolin 95 yesterday so taking 50mg of that every day as well. Hopefully those 2 give me a nice little boost. Thanks!

 

[dvw]

They prescribe Clomid for low test in men indefinitely people take it for years strait. 3 weeks is pointless.

 

[kisaj]

Actually they don't. They give it for short periods of time in an attempt to achieve normal test levels and studies have been done in the 4-6 week range. When you deal with an endo and this is the initial option provided, generally for men seeking to remain fertile, they will run labs after 4 weeks to check the improvement.

It isn't designed to be taken for long term and definitely not indefinitely.

 

[dvw]

You are wrong they prescribe low dose clomid for adult men long term.In the United states fertility therapy and hormone replacement therapy are two different things.

 

[kisaj]

No, actually I am not. While there are studies and times when it can be used for longer periods of time, it is generally used for short periods of time. Also, the point was that he certainly could see results with a short term use and doesn't require that it is used for extended periods.

 

[dvw]

I know some one in Tampa where I live who had a prescription for 12 months worth from his doctor for Clomid for HRT purpose. Why would I make that up? There are guys on here who have been prescribed long term Clomid. Tamoxifen also. You are describing a HPTA restart they give you hcg and clomid for 6 weeks. The n you get blood to see if natural test levels are back up.

 

[kisaj]

Listen, just because you know someone who follows that doesn't mean anything. I know people that are prescribed 300mg of test as well and we all know many people on here that are doing things incorrectly. And I never said you are making anything up, I believe that you know these people.

We aren't going to get anywhere with this conversation and it isn't helping the OP, so I am letting it go.

 

[Todd Garner]

Kisaj is a good person to take advice from on TRT, HRT issues.

 

[Ape McGrapes]

Each patient was treated with a daily dose of 25 mg CC for at least 3 months.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22951175
Our study demonstrates that CC is efficacious after 3 years of therapy
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1464-410X.2012.10968.x/abstract
Not only have we validated previous findings of other papers but have proven our findings over a much longer period (mean duration of treatment 19 months).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22044663

Clomid is safe longterm, IMO. I suggest 25mg EOD for 12 weeks. If going longer than that, maybe taper to 25mg E3D, or 12.5mg EOD. Blood work should be run a minimum of 2 weeks, but more around 4-8 weeks after ceasing clomid, to check if testosterone levels are holding. I also suggest pre and durring treatment blood work.

 

[chainsaw]

Arimistane is not effective in reducing estrogen? Links? I want to learn more

 

[BRUstrong]

Listen, just because you know someone who follows that doesn't mean anything. I know people that are prescribed 300mg of test as well and we all know many people on here that are doing things incorrectly. And I never said you are making anything up, I believe that you know these people.

We aren't going to get anywhere with this conversation and it isn't helping the OP, so I am letting it go.

I'm not getting into an argument. You know much more about this area than I (seriously, not being sarcastic - I have much respect for you). However, I have been on Clomid for TRT (because of fertility) for over 3 years now. Started at 25mg eod, bumped up to 50 eod, and now back down to 25 eod. I had three labs below 250 before I first started and now I range between 600-800 (I am 32). I get bloods drawn every 6 months. I go to a urologist at the Cleveland Clinic who specializes in this area. I've not done my own research, but he said there are journal studies that show long-term safety in males for over 5 years. My wife recently had twins but it was horribly complicated and to save her life they did an emergency hysterectomy. Now that our baby-making days are over, I'm not sure if my doc will switch me to test or keep me on clomid.

 

[Ape McGrapes]

Linked to a three year study, demonstrating longterm safety.

 

[ral]

Hi, I'm just going to share my experience. I'm in my early 40s. I train a lot 6 days a week, mostly Thai cardio and lifting. I tried 12.5 clomid m/w/f. No labs I'm in Canada and doctors are not as open at least where I am, Ontario, you gotta be dying to get some labs and u gotta beg for them to check your test. So, no labs just going by how I feel and what I see (I know it's a big no no but I do what I can) here is what I noticed: lost fat, retained mass, faster recovery, muscles where a bit fuller to the point that people would notice and mention it, recovery from training and sex was pretty good, actually I was impressed. I got stronger and a bit more vascular, lots more energy, people would mention that I even looked happier. I got a bit of blurred vision only once but it went away I think it was only the left eye and a bit of pain in my left testicle but nothing major I actually expected it. Over all I would say that it was a great experience. I am now trying 6-7 mgs sun and Thursday. I know that it's an extremely low dose but I am already seeing some results recovery and sex wise. My skin it's looking a bit tighter and a bit more vascular. My sleep is a bit better as well and I find my aggressiveness is increasing. I only started the first week of July. I didn't have any problems with estrogen (as far as I could tell) after I stopped, I was on it for about 3 months, I would say judging by my experience clomid by itself it's pretty good. Next to no side effects and gear results . The only thing I think most guys have a problem with is that it might take a bit to kick in. I hope this helps

 

[kisaj]

I'm happy to see more experiences with doctors offering this as an option as opposed to just throwing men on testosterone.

 

[BRUstrong]

I'm happy to see more experiences with doctors offering this as an option as opposed to just throwing men on testosterone.

Yea man, the first two endos I saw went straight to test, but my wife (she's a veterinarian but has studied human medicine as well) refused to let me take it due to fertility concerns, which neither endo even addressed. When I went to my current doc, he said how sad it is that so many doctors go straight to test without exploring other options based on their patients' concerns

 

[alwaysfirst]

They prescribe Clomid for low test in men indefinitely people take it for years strait. 3 weeks is pointless.

Not if you just want a "boost". I wouldn't do Clomid or any medication long term if I didn't have a Dr's supervision.

If you do 3-4 weeks you can cycle a couple of times a year and get a more natural boost and potential get a higher stable test level.

 

[Sss23]

Hi, I'm just going to share my experience. I'm in my early 40s. I train a lot 6 days a week, mostly Thai cardio and lifting. I tried 12.5 clomid m/w/f. No labs I'm in Canada and doctors are not as open at least where I am, Ontario, you gotta be dying to get some labs and u gotta beg for them to check your test. So, no labs just going by how I feel and what I see (I know it's a big no no but I do what I can) here is what I noticed: lost fat, retained mass, faster recovery, muscles where a bit fuller to the point that people would notice and mention it, recovery from training and sex was pretty good, actually I was impressed. I got stronger and a bit more vascular, lots more energy, people would mention that I even looked happier. I got a bit of blurred vision only once but it went away I think it was only the left eye and a bit of pain in my left testicle but nothing major I actually expected it. Over all I would say that it was a great experience. I am now trying 6-7 mgs sun and Thursday. I know that it's an extremely low dose but I am already seeing some results recovery and sex wise. My skin it's looking a bit tighter and a bit more vascular. My sleep is a bit better as well and I find my aggressiveness is increasing. I only started the first week of July. I didn't have any problems with estrogen (as far as I could tell) after I stopped, I was on it for about 3 months, I would say judging by my experience clomid by itself it's pretty good. Next to no side effects and gear results . The only thing I think most guys have a problem with is that it might take a bit to kick in. I hope this helps

Were you running an AI or anything else?

 

[ral]

No my friend just the clomid I tapered the last few weeks. 12.5 m/fri and the last 2, 12.5 Monday's or so

 

[bioman]

When one is talking about treatments utilizing CC, HCG etc there are no hard or fast rules, really. Neither is exactly mainstream medicine. But I do know a guy who...:joke:

 

[tyrub42]

Thanks for all of the great information, everyone! Since this is my first time trying this out, I will go with a 4-week cycle and start with 25mg EOD. Depending on those results, I might play with longer cycles later on.

 

[dvw]

All I meant is many, many people have been taking Clomid long term for low-t as per doctor's prescription.

 

[Quest]

kisaj and easyjel know their ****..listen

 

[alwaysfirst]

Thanks for all of the great information, everyone! Since this is my first time trying this out, I will go with a 4-week cycle and start with 25mg EOD. Depending on those results, I might play with longer cycles later on.

Smart, good luck!

 

[tyrub42]

Well it's been a week. So far I think it's a bit early to judge, but I do seem to look noticeably more muscular and vascular. However, I was injured for a week before starting up until this past Tuesday so that could just be from hard training and relatively good diet. I felt pretty down a few days, and I know that gets reported as a side from some people, but again, I was injured so that's not unusual. I'll update again when I have a better idea of how I'm feeling. I think the two-week mark will be when I notice whether or not it is doing anything significant.

 

[tyrub42]

Sorry also wanted to mention that I am down about 4 lbs from last weekend as well, likely due to water retention (I gained the 4 lbs when injured and eating and drinking liberally, then lost them once I started to keep myself in line more), which is also why it's hard to tell if any effect is from clomid or just me getting back into shape. The vascularity does seem to be better than usual, though. Hopefully that keeps up.

 

[tyrub42]

Been over 2 weeks so far. I feel good, fat is staying off pretty well, and vascularity is up.

The difference isn't huge, and I don't know if I'll try running this again in the future, but there has been a noticeable effect on me. For 5 dollars, it is a good experiment. I'll keep updating as I go along.

Sides have been mild. Some depression the first week, mood swings here and there as well, but both faded by day 12. Now no sides at all.

 

[DirtyWilly]

How are you planning on dealing with the build up of estrogen from taking Clomid? If your T levels have doubled, guaranteed your E levels have already way more than doubled. While higher E in relation to higher T can be quite beneficial for building muscle, you will eventually suffer E side effects.

How are you planning on dealing with the runaway estrogen after you stop taking Clomid? Once you come off your E levels will skyrocket. Your T will be suppressed for months and you'll have very high E levels, bad combo.

 

[dynamo]

How are you planning on dealing with the build up of estrogen from taking Clomid? If your T levels have doubled, guaranteed your E levels have already way more than doubled. While higher E in relation to higher T can be quite beneficial for building muscle, you will eventually suffer E side effects.

How are you planning on dealing with the runaway estrogen after you stop taking Clomid? Once you come off your E levels will skyrocket. Your T will be suppressed for months and you'll have very high E levels, bad combo.

That's why you start using exemestane a week before you stop the clomid and continue to use the exemestane (which also helps raise test levels).

Arimistane however, going to do next to nothing. Use real AIs people.

 

[Blergs]

That's why you start using exemestane a week before you stop the clomid and continue to use the exemestane (which also helps raise test levels).

Arimistane however, going to do next to nothing. Use real AIs people.

exem doesnt raise ti in people in pct or shutdown. in research (where this brologic came about) its shown a slight increase in test levels... sure but ofcourse it would your converting less test to estrogen because it was conducted on people PRODUCING test.

dont use an AI in pct, end it in start or in first week of PCT IMO

 

[dynamo]

exem doesnt raise ti in people in pct or shutdown. in research (where this brologic came about) its shown a slight increase in test levels... sure but ofcourse it would your converting less test to estrogen because it was conducted on people PRODUCING test.

dont use an AI in pct, end it in start or in first week of PCT IMO

Yeah, but from what I can tell in the topic of this thread, the use of clomid here is as a test booster. The exemestane suggestion was to mitigate rebound when stopping the clomid.

 

[tyrub42]

At the dose I'm running, I was thinking I'd be fine just tapering down to 12.5 EOD, then E3D and ending it. Do you still see rebound being a serious problem? I could pick up a real AI if needed; I just thought it'd be overkill.

 

[dynamo]

At the dose I'm running, I was thinking I'd be fine just tapering down to 12.5 EOD, then E3D and ending it. Do you still see rebound being a serious problem? I could pick up a real AI if needed; I just thought it'd be overkill.

Don't take it just to take it. Take it accordingly based on what your bloodwork tells you.

 

[tyrub42]

Don't take it just to take it. Take it accordingly based on what your bloodwork tells you.

I'm taking it experimentally because of the low cost and potential benefits (and the positive results I've had with anti-estrogen supplements in the past). The last bloodwork I had showed low test and high E2 but both within the 'normal' range, but I won't be getting bloodwork done after this, so I'll have to plan according to what should be expected. From everything I read online, tapering off gradually seems to work and I am dosing at about 25% of the average; however, there is very limited information on using clomid on a natty test-boosting cycle.

I searched quite a bit on it today, and people seem to be all over the map with their recommendations (and all of the discussion I found is in PCT forums, so not exactly the same situation). Some say to run an AI at the end of clomid, other say that prescription AIs can themselves cause a rebound effect. I'm pretty confused by all of it, and it seems like people are creating a lot of their own theories from personal experience instead of actual science. I wish there was more hard factual information on this. Maybe Kisaj or one of the posters who have tried it as a TRT alternative can chime in.

I can get an AI easily, but would rather not unless it is needed, as I'd rather not mess with another compound if I don't have to. I will be back in NY at the end of this run, though, so if I will need one, I'd like to pick it up before I go. Thanks for the post; sorry for the long-winded response!