Are SARMs illegal?

[R_Alan1]

Are SARMs actually illegal to take or are they just illegal to market/sell as a "dietary supplement?" I know WADA banned them like 8 years ago but I'm curious on the actual legality of taking them. I'm not a competitive athlete or anything but I wanna know their legal status.

 

[booneman77]

They're still legal but everyone pretty much expects them to be banned sooner rather than later. As of now they're just "grey market". Legal but borderline.

 

[R_Alan1]

Thanks booneman, do you, or anyone else, know if they'll throw a false positive for gear?

 

[booneman77]

Thanks booneman, do you, or anyone else, know if they'll throw a false positive for gear?

It depends. Tests don't test for a particular substance, they usually test for hormonal levels (test v estrogen). If a product will suppress natural levels of one or both, or raise one or both, then it would raise the flag.

 

[smith_69]

The gain train aint a smooth ride

lol

 

[EasyEJL]

They for now are not illegal to own, but are illegal to sell. If they ever get FDA approval as a drug, they'll then be illegal to own as well - as you require a prescription for the substance. Just like clomid, nolva, etc are illegal to possess. Nobody cares though.

 

[R_Alan1]

Thanks easy. Are they legal to take tho? Cuz you can buy it under the guise that it's not for human consumption

 

[smith_69]

Thanks easy. Are they legal to take tho? Cuz you can buy it under the guise that it's not for human consumption

RC companies sell them for experimental use and scientific research, not for human consumption- Sarms regardless of where they are being sold, are not for human consumption.

So to answer the question in a blunt way, you should not be taken any sarms, they should be used for research purposes

 

[EasyEJL]

Thanks easy. Are they legal to take tho? Cuz you can buy it under the guise that it's not for human consumption

no, there isn't a law against consuming them, at least not federally. Some states may have their own laws though. It's unlikely. Like as an example, there are laws in some states against stores being able to sell raw unpasteurized milk for human consumption. so they stores mark it as "for pet use only", damn well knowing you're going to drink it yourself

 

[R_Alan1]

So I could take it and can't get in trouble assuming I'm not a competitive athlete?

 

[EasyEJL]

So I could take it and can't get in trouble assuming I'm not a competitive athlete?

just like with marijuana, heroin, etc. At most having possession is criminal (not with sarms yet) but once it's in your body the only kind of crime you can be charged with would be violating probation or driving while impaired

Most of the sarms + research chemicals won't trigger anything in a normal job type drug test either, unless they are accidentally tainted with something

 

[R_Alan1]

My job regularly drug tests but doesn't regularly test for steroids, only on suspicion but if I popped hot for steroids I'm getting **** canned that's why I'm asking so many questions. And if Google has the answer it's effin buried cuz I've been looking for a week and can't get a straight answer lmao.

 

[smith_69]

you arent going to get huge on sarms- 10-15 in 6-8 of good solid muscle yes, not 12-18 lbs of water in 4 weeks

 

[R_Alan1]

IFFF I got tested tho would I get in trouble?

 

[smith_69]

IFFF I got tested tho would I get in trouble?

possibly- dont know for sure but i would check

 

[R_Alan1]

That's why I'm here haha, best info on the web at AM! Not gonna ask at work cuz that's kind of like telling on myself. "Hey can I take this shady grey area anabolic supplement that I don't think is illegal...eh...yet..." Lmao

 

[smith_69]

That's why I'm here haha, best info on the web at AM! Not gonna ask at work cuz that's kind of like telling on myself. "Hey can I take this shady grey area anabolic supplement that I don't think is illegal...eh...yet..." Lmao

its a valid ?, but i dont know how that testing is

 

[R_Alan1]

Anybody out there that can shed some light on what type of tests would show SARMs?

 

[Alan1]

My job regularly drug tests but doesn't regularly test for steroids, only on suspicion

From one Alan1 to another I've gotta' ask.... your employer will do suspicion based steroid testing? If so then I'd be mighty curious to hear what constitutes reasonable suspicion in such a case. Like, raging out on the incompetent secretary while hitting most-muscular poses and threatening to hog tie he/she with some lifting straps??

 

[muscleupcrohn]

From one Alan1 to another I've gotta' ask.... your employer will do suspicion based steroid testing? If so then I'd be mighty curious to hear what constitutes reasonable suspicion in such a case. Like, raging out on the incompetent secretary while hitting most-muscular poses and threatening to hog tie he/she with some lifting straps??

This. Unless you suddenly look like Ronnie Coleman, I don't see why an employer would run a "suspicion based" steroid test, and why would they care if it doesn't effect your work? I can think of literally hundreds of reasons why an employee would be angry/aggressive that are more likely than roid rage, so that angle doesn't really make sense either.

 

[R_Alan1]

I'm just thinking worst case scenario for what could happen and I want to be 100% informed before I start anything. Seems like nobody really knows the answer tho, this really is a grey area lol

 

[EasyEJL]

Anybody out there that can shed some light on what type of tests would show SARMs?

from all I can tell, testing that would show positive for sarms would have to be specifically testing for sarms.


There are 3 kinds of drug tests basically - tests that directly test for the substance, tests that test for metabolites left in your body from the substance and tests that look at ratios of your normally occurring hormones/chemicals for an unnatural imbalance.

So the first 2 more or less are easy, for the last its like the way the Olympics defines a woman - partially based on testosterone to estrogen ratios (this is from their most recent transgender rules)

The athlete must demonstrate that her total testosterone level in serum has been below 10 nmol/L for at least 12 months prior to her first competition (with the requirement for any longer period to be based on a confidential case-by-case evaluation, considering whether or not 12 months is a sufficient length of time to minimize any advantage in women's competition).





http://www.outsports.com/2016/1/21/10812404/transgender-ioc-policy-new-olympics

 

[smith_69]

its your life and your career. if in doubt, don't do it.

he said/she said isn't going to help you if you lose your job.

 

[R_Alan1]

Smith you're totally right, that's why I'm not taking any answer without doing my own research. Easy, would the same metabolites be present from SARMs? Obviously they'd affect your hormonal balance in a similar trend

 

[EasyEJL]

Smith you're totally right, that's why I'm not taking any answer without doing my own research. Easy, would the same metabolites be present from SARMs? Obviously they'd affect your hormonal balance in a similar trend

not really. they'd have their own metabolites, as they directly target the androgen receptor vs being a direct hormone.

 

[R_Alan1]

So basically unless they they're specifically looking for SARMs or are looking at your hormones they won't be able to tell?

 

[EasyEJL]

So basically unless they they're specifically looking for SARMs or are looking at your hormones they won't be able to tell?

That's why WADA and other agencies spend so much money, they have to test for all sorts of different things. Some things can clump together as having similar metabolites (like ephedrine + meth) but others are so different they have to test for them individually.

 

[R_Alan1]

I might go to a local lab and just ask what they can do, they'd probably know right?

 

[EasyEJL]

I might go to a local lab and just ask what they can do, they'd probably know right?

They might, but most states require a prescription to get blood drawn for a test anyhow. And of course, they wouldn't be able to tell you what tests your company may choose to run.

 

[R_Alan1]

They wouldn't tell me what my company runs but they could tell me what tests exist and the limits of their facility and other facilities in that field

 

[R_Alan1]

Still hard to believe with well over 800 views on this thread and a ton of other threads about SARMs that nobody knows their current legal status lol

 

[Woody]

I can think of literally hundreds of reasons why an employee would be angry/aggressive that are more likely than roid rage, so that angle doesn't really make sense either.

Like working through lunch.

 

[Woody]

yates84 Dma378

 

[Tiocfaidh]

Still hard to believe with well over 800 views on this thread and a ton of other threads about SARMs that nobody knows their current legal status lol

as a research chemical they are legal for research purposes unless under patent.

as a supplement, hell no. you can't sell experimental drugs as a supplement.

 

[R_Alan1]

Right I get that it's 100% illegal to sell for human use it in a dietary supp. But fast forward to now that someone has it, is it illegal to take?

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Man, based on the little info youve given and all the vagueries and potential variables involved, its nigh on impossible to give you the 100% guaranteed solution you seem to be seeking.

Without further specifics to eliminate the myriad "what if..." as it stands, Id say flag the SARMs.

 

[R_Alan1]

Idk what's vague about it. Is cocaine illegal to take? Yes. Heroin? Yes. SARMs? Idk you tell me. You can buy dust off but if you huff it it's a crime. This question is the exact opposite of vague.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Okay then, its illegal for you to take.

 

[R_Alan1]

Are you just saying that or is there some statute you could reference to support that? Cuz I haven't found one

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Are you just saying that or is there some statute you could reference to support that? Cuz I haven't found one

Any decent lawyer could argue its a synthetic steroid. If you went to court over an unfair dismissal due to suspected use, you will lose.

 

[R_Alan1]

Nobody got fired for prohormones before they were banned and they're more of a steroid than SARMs. You can't get in trouble for something that isn't illegal just cuz it should be illegal or one day will be illegal. It's either illegal with statutes and administrative code or it's not illegal, albeit it may be soon.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

But, I am saying it is illegal.

What possible defense are you going to give in court? Your employer has dismissed you, fairly it would seem, for steroid use. What is your defence, such that a judge would rule in your favour?

 

[R_Alan1]

So you're saying SARMs are classified as steroids and have supporting statutory proof? Cuz that's what I'm looking for. I haven't taken any SARMs. And as far as I can tell they aren't illegal because no bill or statue has been passed making them illegal. Nothing is illegal until it's written down and made illegal via official channels.

 

[Tiocfaidh]

So you're saying SARMs are classified as steroids and have supporting statutory proof?

They are classified as experimental drugs. This isn't that difficult.

Experimental drugs can't be sold as supplements nor used by the general public for human use without clearance of the FDA.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Does this all have some practical motivation OP, or we playing semantics?

 

[R_Alan1]

What you're referring to is the legality of marketing and/or selling it for human consumption, I agree that that is 100% illegal and not in dispute. But just cuz something is undergoing research doesn't make it illegal. You can't legally buy the raws to make xanax, viagra or gear because there are laws dictating same. SARMs are a lot newer and I don't believe there are laws specifying their legality. The law isn't written in a vague way, it's quite specific, if there's a law against taking SARMs than it would explicitly be scheduled and say something like: "any chemical or compound with a chemical structure of "xyz" or something with a chemical structure substantially similar to or fundamentally the same as" but to my knowledge no such record of law exists. Please if you have proof I'd love to see it. And I apologize if it seems like I'm beating a dead horse or being argumentative but I'm simply trying to be thorough and I haven't gotten concrete proof one way or another.

 

[Tiocfaidh]

What you're referring to is the legality of marketing and/or selling it for human consumption, I agree that that is 100% illegal and not in dispute. But just cuz something is undergoing research doesn't make it illegal. You can't legally buy the raws to make xanax, viagra or gear because there are laws dictating same. SARMs are a lot newer and I don't believe there are laws specifying their legality.

wrong. sarms are classified like any other drug. i don't understand why you don't believe such an easy concept. they are by definition, DRUGS. you can't sell DRUGS unless vetted and approved by the FDA. there isn't some magical property in sarms that evades this.

"According to section 201(ff)(3)(B)(ii) of the FDCA [21 U.S.C. § 321 (ff)(3)(B)(ii)], a dietary supplement also may not include an article authorized for investigation as a new drug for which substantial clinical investigations have been instituted and made public, unless the article was marketed as a dietary supplement or food before its authorization as a new drug. (2S)-3-(4-cyanophenoxy)-N-[4-cyano-3-(trifluoromethyl)phenyl]-2-hydroxy-2-methylpropanamide) is the subject of substantial clinical investigations, which have been made public (see note 1, infra). Based on the information available to FDA, ostarine was not marketed as a dietary supplement or as a food until after it was under substantial clinical investigation. "

 

[Tiocfaidh]

and after you read that, call rick collins and ask him if sarms are legal and i will bet you the consultation fee they are illegal.

if i'm wrong, i'll cover the cost of the consultation. thats how sure i am.

 

[bighulksmash]

In b4 tits up locks it

 

[R_Alan1]

I'm not saying I know SARMs are legal but all you're proving is its illegal to market and sell it as a dietary substance, read what you just quoted me "a dietary substance may not include...unless the article was marketed as a dietary supplement or food before its authorization as a new drug." Again, nowhere does it say it's illegal to sell it or take it. There's an unlimited amount of rules for what dietary supplements can and can't do but it all comes down to what the company purports it to be. A benign supp can't even be marketed to seem like it will give you steroid like effects, that's how's specific the fda is with this stuff. When k2 and bath salts came out they were sold as incense and bath salt but everyone used them to get high. It wasn't until years later that using them for an off label purpose became illegal. That's where SARMs are. Is there legislation specific to lgd 4033 or Mk 2866 or gw 501516 that specifies it is illegal to take?