short dermal cycle

[snakebyte05]

CYCLE STARTED TODAY 6/30/05. http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30514

Well since my old thread turned into a dermal cycle and was going all over the place, I decided to start a new thread about what my idea is for the cycle.

Well after much searching I have found a int. person who I may go with. Many recommend him and he has good prices. I am not sure about purity it says USP 26 USP 24 for different things, this is labeled under his standard, not sure if this is purity or not.

Here is what I am looking at for the cycle (the numbers are the amount absorbed):

TB 800mg-1g/week in dermal (4.5-5.5mls/day in the morning)
Boldenone base 600mg/week in dermal (3mls in evening)

(Another thought for application would be 2.25ml TB/1.5ml Bold applied both morning and evening for more even blood levels of both hormone)

I also have a chance for some very cheap anavar, not sure if I should go for it or not to add it as an extra kicker at 50mg/day for some strength and leaning out effects I've seen some good info that it can be used as a good bulker in the right dosages.. I'm thinking that may be overboard though.

All in all, the powders plus shipping, plus 3 bottles t-gel will be very cheap (at least from what I can see). i will be putting 10g in each t-gel. Many of you have helped with giving me a relative range I should look for on prices. Thanks for that. If anyone knows how to measure out 10grams of test or bold with out a scale, please let me know. Im guessing I will need to buy a scale either way.

Any input on how this looks would be great. I am not planning on researching any of this stuff on my rats for months to come, so I have plenty of time to revise if you guys think I should.

 

[snakebyte05]

Jminis if you are out there I would love to have some feedback from you. Seeing as you have done many 40days cycles, I would value having your opinion. I've noticed many of your cycles use several different compounds added in and taken out throughout the cycle, which you said was done for specific reasons. If you had any ideas on how to bring my cycle to full potential, please shed some light.

 

[glenihan]

sounds really good to me man .. excited to see how this works out for you

as for measuring i'm pretty sure you're going to have to sack up and buy a scale

 

[snakebyte05]

sounds really good to me man .. excited to see how this works out for you

as for measuring i'm pretty sure you're going to have to sack up and buy a scale

So do you think the anavar should be added? That was the one area I am not sure about. Anavar really won't add to much to my price for 2grams. Many people I have talked to have used it and it was tested at >98.5% purity, so I am thinking it is a pretty good bet.

I'm excited for this too, Now I get to play the waiting game. I always hate it, but I don't want to jump into anything before I have had enough time off. Plus I'll order in the summer when I am home more often so I have a better chance at catching the package when it arrives instead of someone else signing for it.

 

[glenihan]

i don't think there is any harm in adding the var only benefit

 

[size]

i don't think there is any harm in adding the var only benefit

One can never go wrong with oxandrolone.
:cheers:

 

[snakebyte05]

One can never go wrong with oxandrolone.
:cheers:

So I have been hearing. The only draw back I heard was price for it. Well once you go international price drops incredibly on it. Well all powders price drop. guess thats what you get when you get it directly from a house. Anavar I have seen as high as $80/g (domestic) and I have seen it for 1/7th that price (international). Also for those who are wondering that anavar was tested for 98.5% purity. Good times are a coming.

 

[jminis]

Ok here I am, sorry bro I haven't been on much I'm in the process of a move. Anyway I like your cycle simple and to the point. And yes I would add var in there as Size said you can't go wrong. I don't think I saw but how long are you running this?

 

[snakebyte05]

Ok here I am, sorry bro I haven't been on much I'm in the process of a move. Anyway I like your cycle simple and to the point. And yes I would add var in there as Size said you can't go wrong. I don't think I saw but how long are you running this?

I was planning on 6 weeks. Get in, get out, and start pct.

 

[natedogg]

Sounds interesting. I was thinking about a dermal Test/Boldenone cycle myself later on down the road. Maybe with dbol or something else thrown in there. When do you plan on starting?

 

[chasec]

to measure the powder you COULD (although you would invariably lose some product) melt it down, suck it up in a syringe and read the volume. i believe most powders are about .75-.78 g/ml

it's much better than using the teaspoon method, however a scale would come in handy

 

[snakebyte05]

Natedogg - probably this summer if I choose not to join the alri competition, which I most likely wont since I really want to try this cycle. Only thing I did was test before and it went alright at a low dosage of 500mg/week. So im hoping a higher dose with bold will make it better, plus the var of course.

Chasec - yea, I am just going to get a scale, I figure I have enough powder I will need a scale in the future anyways. I'm going to have more than 100grams.

Also does anyone know how to make an oral suspension for var. Ive read it can only be suspended in solution. Should I just go with the olive oil mix? Or something else?
98mls + 2grams = 20mg/ml

 

[natedogg]

Natedawg - probably this summer if I choose not to join the alri competition, which I most likely wont since I really want to try this cycle. Only thing I did was test before and it went alright at a low dosage of 500mg/week. So im hoping a higher dose with bold will make it better, plus the var of course.

So you've done test base as a transdermal before. How did it go as far as gains? If applicable, what was the difference between using a needle and dermal applications?

 

[snakebyte05]

So you've done test base as a transdermal before. How did it go as far as gains? If applicable, what was the difference between using a needle and dermal applications?

I've used test before, but it was test-e. This cycle I will compare to see if I like one or the other, but I doubt I will be able to acuratly tell a difference, since I will be doing a different style of training, slightly tweaked diet (getting more whole foods, plus getting efa's in there), and a higher dose with other stuff added. So in reality, there is not comparing, but either way, it will be interesting to see how it goes.

 

[jminis]

I would run test and another androgen maybe dbol or m1t in the begining and phase that stuff out into the var. m1t is perfect in this regard as it acts faster then anything out there and it will help you take full advantage of all 42days.

 

[Nate Dawg]

Here is a thread that lozgod started about making oral solutions, this is what worked for him, I book marked it for future references.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24218

 

[snakebyte05]

I would run test and another androgen maybe dbol or m1t in the begining and phase that stuff out into the var. m1t is perfect in this regard as it acts faster then anything out there and it will help you take full advantage of all 42days.

What about the boldenone? Should I phase that out?

Is what you are trying to say is first week with test start high dose and slowly bring it down the first 4weeks or so, and start var at the 2week mark and slowly move it up? Not sure if I will add an dbol, trying to keep estrogen to minimum on this. A little is alright, just not looking for an all out bulk.

 

[snakebyte05]

quick question, does test base powder become liquid slightly above room temp., or is that just test-e powder? Been reading up on some stuff and just want to know what to expect. I have not worked with powders before.

 

[jminis]

quick question, does test base powder become liquid slightly above room temp., or is that just test-e powder? Been reading up on some stuff and just want to know what to expect. I have not worked with powders before.

No it's powder
Snake I use dbol on cutters all the time. In fact I just did. Whether you bulk or not is based around diet, I know I know water right. And yes I would phase out the boldenone about 10days before ending the var. Start the test high and gradually lower it while increasing the boldenone. Then gradually lower the boldenone and continue to increase the Var. This will move you from an androgenic dominated enviroment (if you choose dbol, drol m1t) into a anabolic one.

 

[snakebyte05]

No it's powder
Snake I use dbol on cutters all the time. In fact I just did. Whether you bulk or not is based around diet, I know I know water right. And yes I would phase out the boldenone about 10days before ending the var. Start the test high and gradually lower it while increasing the boldenone. Then gradually lower the boldenone and continue to increase the Var. This will move you from an androgenic dominated enviroment (if you choose dbol, drol m1t) into a anabolic one.

Well I took your advice and while looking at your past cycles found that matches what you said and switched things aroung for me. Do you believe doing a cycle like this will be better for gains than just running it all together throughout the entire cycle? I am not the chemist here and have not read building the perfect beast or any of those (which I want to, just don't have the money). Here is what the cycle would look like. The anavar is used much longer than m1t and I have var only for the last 5days.

The Cycle

T.B. 175mg, m1t 20mg
T.B. 175mg, M1t 20mg
T.B. 175mg, M1t 20mg
T.B. 175mg, M1t 20mg
T.B. 175mg, M1t 15mg
T.B. 175mg, M1t 15mg
T.B. 120mg, M1t 15mg
T.B. 120mg, M1t 15mg
T.B. 120mg, M1t 15mg
T.B. 120mg, M1t 10mg
T.B. 120mg, Boldenone 100mg M1t 10mg
T.B. 120mg, Boldenone 100mg M1t 10mg
T.B. 100mg, Boldenone 100mg M1t 10mg,
T.B. 100mg, Boldenone 100mg, ANAVAR 25mg
T.B. 100mg, Boldenone 100mg, ANAVAR 25mg
T.B. 100mg, Boldenone 100mg, ANAVAR 25mg
T.B. 75mg, Boldenone 120mg, ANAVAR 25mg
T.B 75mg, Boldenone 120mg, ANAVAR 50mg,
T.B 75mg, Boldenone 120mg, ANAVAR 50mg
T.B 50mg, Boldenone 175mg, ANAVAR 50mg,
T.B 50mg, Boldenone 175mg, ANAVAR 50mg
Boldenone 175mg, ANAVAR 50mg
Boldenone 175mg, ANAVAR 50mg
Boldenone 175mg, ANAVAR 75mg,
Boldenone 175mg, ANAVAR 75mg
Boldenone 120mg, ANAVAR 75mg
Boldenone 120mg, ANAVAR 75mg
Boldenone 120mg, ANAVAR 75mg
Boldenone 100mg, ANAVAR 100mg
Boldenone 100mg, ANAVAR 100mg
Boldenone 75mg, ANAVAR 100mg
Boldenone 75mg, ANAVAR 100mg
Boldenone 50mg, ANAVAR 100mg
Boldenone 50mg, ANAVAR 100mg
Boldenone 50mg, ANAVAR 100mg
ANAVAR 100mg
ANAVAR 100mg
ANAVAR 100mg
ANAVAR 100mg
ANAVAR 100mg

PCT:
Rebount Xt
Nolva
(dosages To Be Decided)

 

[jminis]

Well I took your advice and while looking at your past cycles found that matches what you said and switched things aroung for me. Do you believe doing a cycle like this will be better for gains than just running it all together throughout the entire cycle? I am not the chemist here and have not read building the perfect beast or any of those (which I want to, just don't have the money). Here is what the cycle would look like. The anavar is used much longer than m1t and I have var only for the last 5days.

I wouldn't go that high on the Var. No need yet. I would run it at 25mg then 40mg then 60mg then finish with 80. Other then that I really like that cycle and plan on running one very similar in the near future. Good luck and keep us updated.

 

[natedogg]

Whatever you decide, make a log. I'm very intrigued by this.

 

[snakebyte05]

Well all I have left is to get powders and a scale, spend a day or two mixing everything and making some oral solutions, oh and of course taking that whole plan and figuring out how many mls of each substance I need each day for that dose. I'll need to make a print out sheet to put on my wall since i'll never remember. Well when I get my powders in a month or so i'll let you know when the beginning will be and ill probably do my normal every week update or twice a week update. Now the wait game starts.

 

[snakebyte05]

The only other thing I have toyed with in my head is using proviron instead of m1t. M1t is pretty harsh on hair and I would rather not speed things up as much as that would. Also for the benifit that proviron will cause higher levels of free test which is what I am using at high amounts at the start of the cycle. Just wondering if this would be wise to use instead of m1t. Prices of m1t and proviron are the same, so that is not an issue. This is the last thing I am wondering on the cycle, since m1t shuts you down really hard, is horrible for the liver, and will speed up hair loss (dont say be a man and use it anyways, no one wants to lose hair in their 20's).

 

[snakebyte05]

bump on the question about proviron. If you think it would be good to use, what dosage should I work up to? Ive read some go up to 250mg, not to sure though. I have not done a huge amount of a research on this yet for max dosage.

 

[ryanbodybuilder]

looks frickin intense....however yea way too much var..and no you shouldnt need proviron in this cycle....however I would use test the whole way through as well, even at a low dose

 

[snakebyte05]

looks frickin intense....however yea way too much var..and no you shouldnt need proviron in this cycle....however I would use test the whole way through as well, even at a low dose

Yea the var will not got past 80mg. The thing with test throughout the whole cycle, that was my original plan, but after jminis joined in I am going to follow his advice. I have followed his short cycles in the past and he seems to know what hes doing. The reason for cutting it out was to be in an angrogenic environment at the start and work into an anabolic one at the end. I decided to go with what he says, since he has done well in his cycles.

 

[ryanbodybuilder]

sounds good....i will have to learn from him as well!

 

[jminis]

LOL to hell with me we have the man himself here now ALR! Although he has commented that my cycle outlines are solid :cheers:

 

[size]

There is no need to go so high with the anavar. I actually think 80mg is still a bit high.

I think that proviron is a better choice for your cycle than m1t. This is more from a side effect and general health perspective.

 

[snakebyte05]

There is no need to go so high with the anavar. I actually think 80mg is still a bit high.

I think that proviron is a better choice for your cycle than m1t. This is more from a side effect and general health perspective.

That was some of the reasoning for me too. What do you think I should take the proviron up to? I am not sure what my max dosage should be on this?

 

[snakebyte05]

bump for dosage on proviron?

 

[same_old]

The only other thing I have toyed with in my head is using proviron instead of m1t. M1t is pretty harsh on hair and I would rather not speed things up as much as that would. Also for the benifit that proviron will cause higher levels of free test which is what I am using at high amounts at the start of the cycle. Just wondering if this would be wise to use instead of m1t. Prices of m1t and proviron are the same, so that is not an issue. This is the last thing I am wondering on the cycle, since m1t shuts you down really hard, is horrible for the liver, and will speed up hair loss (dont say be a man and use it anyways, no one wants to lose hair in their 20's).

have you experienced hairloss on M1T? it isnt a very common side that i've noticed.

remind me why you arent running the TB all the way through??

 

[natedogg]

bump for dosage on proviron?

I've heard anywhere from 25 to 100 mgs being recommended.

 

[snakebyte05]

have you experienced hairloss on M1T? it isnt a very common side that i've noticed.

remind me why you arent running the TB all the way through??

You may not always lose hair on a cycle, it could just be speeding up the day that you start to lose the hair.

Yes I know TB isn't being run the whole way through, there are very specific reasons, if you read some of this thread you will see why. Its mainly to go from an angrogenic envirornment to an anobalic one.

 

[same_old]

Start the test high and gradually lower it while increasing the boldenone. Then gradually lower the boldenone and continue to increase the Var. This will move you from an androgenic dominated enviroment (if you choose dbol, drol m1t) into a anabolic one.

since when are drol or M1T androgenic?

could someone fill me in on the benefit of finishing with pure anabolism? i cant say i really understand this plan...the TB, being the strongest component (next to M1T i guess which really is just a kickstarter here) will be phased out in favor of weaker/milder var? i've seen var used to finish cycles (very popular) but always in concert with the test. is there a paradigm shift i missed in cycle design?

oh and var @ >50mg is often reported to be rather androgenic. it isnt side-free at high doses.

 

[same_old]

You may not always lose hair on a cycle, it could just be speeding up the day that you start to lose the hair.

yeah, but did you lose any hair on an M1T cycle? your really potent hairline screwer-uppers will typically cause some loss during the cycle. are you alleging that the typically short duration of M1T use is why it isnt known as being very bad for MPB?

 

[snakebyte05]

yeah, but did you lose any hair on an M1T cycle? your really potent hairline screwer-uppers will typically cause some loss during the cycle. are you alleging that the typically short duration of M1T use is why it isnt known as being very bad for MPB?

What I was saying is that you may not lose hair right away when you are younger, but it could make it so you lose it at a much younger age than you normally would have.

 

[same_old]

What I was saying is that you may not lose hair right away when you are younger, but it could make it so you lose it at a much younger age than you normally would have.

i understood what you said. but you still didnt answer my question!! did you lose hair on M1T? i'm more curious than anything.

and i believe the jury is still out on whether or not a nearly pure anabolic (i'm not saying M1T is one, but there are some that are) would impact someone with the MPB gene. if it has no androgenicity and doesnt bind to the AR in the scalp with any noted affinity, would it still accelerate the expression of the gene? anyone know? (i've never heard of hairloss being initiated by var or SD...or equipoise for that matter, but dont quote me on that one)

 

[jminis]

since when are drol or M1T androgenic?

could someone fill me in on the benefit of finishing with pure anabolism? i cant say i really understand this plan...the TB, being the strongest component (next to M1T i guess which really is just a kickstarter here) will be phased out in favor of weaker/milder var? i've seen var used to finish cycles (very popular) but always in concert with the test. is there a paradigm shift i missed in cycle design?

oh and var @ >50mg is often reported to be rather androgenic. it isnt side-free at high doses.

Without getting into details for the main benefit of ending with a anabolic dominated enviroment is to help solidify gains.

And since when are drol and m1t androgenic? Are you serious

 

[same_old]

Without getting into details for the main benefit of ending with a anabolic dominated enviroment is to help solidify gains.

And since when are drol and m1t androgenic? Are you serious

hmm..."old-school juicing 101" tells me that cycles are often ended with a significantly androgenic compound (winstrol very common) to harden the bulk accumulated from test. what does "solidify gains" really mean? have you read about this approach being used with success?

sorry, the implication i was making in regards to drol or M1T was "since when are M1T or drol VERY androgenic?" which they arent....confirmed by Vida but more importantly, by those who've used them - not excessive strength gain, no vascularity, little libido impact, little aggressiveness, NO anti-e effects: all hallmark effects of androgenic compounds.

 

[snakebyte05]

hmm..."old-school juicing 101" tells me that cycles are often ended with a significantly androgenic compound (winstrol very common) to harden the bulk accumulated from test. what does "solidify gains" really mean? have you read about this approach being used with success?

sorry, the implication i was making in regards to drol or M1T was "since when are M1T or drol VERY androgenic?" which they arent....confirmed by Vida but more importantly, by those who've used them - not excessive strength gain, no vascularity, little libido impact, little aggressiveness, NO anti-e effects: all hallmark effects of androgenic compounds.

M1t and drol do not give signifigant strength increases? Are you kidding, strength went up A LOT from m1t. Biggest jump I ever had. Vascularity went up a bit, libido was killed. Aggressiveness I can't comment on since I was so lethargic.

 

[same_old]

M1t and drol do not give signifigant strength increases? Are you kidding, strength went up A LOT from m1t. Biggest jump I ever had. Vascularity went up a bit, libido was killed. Aggressiveness I can't comment on since I was so lethargic.

then we had different experiences. i had no libido impact, no vascularity, mild strength increase (which we need to put in perspective - when you gain 10lbs of mostly muscle you're gonna be stronger. the actual increase increase provided by the drug that relates to androgenicity will occur whether or not you gain weight - a totally different scenario than getting stronger through anabolism)

check vida. both M1T and drol are only moderately androgenic (pretty high A/A ratios if i recall)

 

[jminis]

hmm..."old-school juicing 101" tells me that cycles are often ended with a significantly androgenic compound (winstrol very common) to harden the bulk accumulated from test. what does "solidify gains" really mean? have you read about this approach being used with success?

.

Old school juicing is filled with a lot of old school info. I've not only read about success using phase cycling but I've had it myself using these techniques through several cycles now. Not only are my PCT easier on my body but I actually keep most of my gains. NO bullshit like most people post on how they gains 30lbs and kept about 20. My god we would have 300lbs monsters roaming the streets. If your really interested in reading more about this I would suggest picking up a copy of Author L Rea's book Building the Perfect Beast.

 

[same_old]

Old school juicing is filled with a lot of old school info. I've not only read about success using phase cycling but I've had it myself using these techniques through several cycles now. Not only are my PCT easier on my body but I actually keep most of my gains. NO bullshit like most people post on how they gains 30lbs and kept about 20. My god we would have 300lbs monsters roaming the streets. If your really interested in reading more about this I would suggest picking up a copy of Author L Rea's book Building the Perfect Beast.

i'm not advocating the employment of old school juicing strategies for all cases - just indicating the traditional methods for the sake of describing that's it's different.

could you give me a quick run-down of why it works? seems that compounds that promote hardness and are less anabolic are obvious choices to run at the tail end of a wet and bulky cycle...i dont have a problem with the cycle except i just dont get why you'd want to run bold and var without test....trying to adapt my understand to encompass a TD cycle where the half-life is very short. i guess we could treat test TD like suspension or TNE, in which case 3 weeks still isnt really enough (although you will still see results)

dont mean to hijack - if everyone else understands why this method works and i am the only one in the dark, feel free to ignore me.

 

[snakebyte05]

Reasons for it are explained in depth in building the perfect beast. I have only seen parts of it so i can not give you a good run down like jminis would, or even better Author L rea, which has his own section on this board in the ALRI board sponser area. If you ask this question there I bet he would chime in.

 

[jminis]

i'm not advocating the employment of old school juicing strategies for all cases - just indicating the traditional methods for the sake of describing that's it's different.

could you give me a quick run-down of why it works? seems that compounds that promote hardness and are less anabolic are obvious choices to run at the tail end of a wet and bulky cycle...i dont have a problem with the cycle except i just dont get why you'd want to run bold and var without test....trying to adapt my understand to encompass a TD cycle where the half-life is very short. i guess we could treat test TD like suspension or TNE, in which case 3 weeks still isnt really enough (although you will still see results)

dont mean to hijack - if everyone else understands why this method works and i am the only one in the dark, feel free to ignore me.

Not trying to ignore you but if your really interested buy the book. I really can't sit here and type the reasons for all this as it would take me all day. Plus ALR goes into much better detail with example cycles and all. It's worth the cash if your looking for a new way to cycle compounds.

 

[snakebyte05]

Well just got all the powders today. I have to say test base is a pain the arse to mess with. That stuff sticks to everything. I had a hard enough time getting it to go in the tgel bottle then mix. Adding a metal ball or bolt really helped mix it.

My cycle will be starting sometime this week and I'll have some weekly updates. I just have to mix my orals. Not sure what I should do for these, if I should just sus. it in oil and shake everytime before use, since anavar does not mix well I have heard. Not sure about my proviron though. Just need some suggestions for my oral solutions.

Now All I need to do is go through my whole cycle and find out how many ml's I need a day for each day, then buy some large syringes and caps for my bottles to accuratly measure out. So i'll start a new thread when the cycle starts. Until then any suggestions on the solutions are much appreciated.

 

[NevrEnuf]

How much are you expecting to gain from this cycle, i am wondering because i was planning on a similar dermal cycle?

 

[snakebyte05]

I will be happy with around 10lbs. Not expecting the large 20+ from a 12+ week cycle. In reality, I have no idea how much I will gain since I have not done this kind of a cycle before.