Question on bulking compounds

[Myrmidon]

Im wondering what the best bulking compounds are on the market when balancing sides vs. gains, and cost effectiveness.

1-andro/4 andro/2-andro- I hear most of these Andros are two step conversions and not exactly cost effective. Additionally the high possibility of 1-andro tanking your lipids to dangerous levels isn't something I'm too keen on at my age.

Trest- fairly toxic, almost immediate and complete shutdown.

Epiandro/androsterone- More of lean bulk/recomping compounds from my understanding which is how Im planning on utilizing them. Unless Im missing something here.

None of these options sounds all that great to me for various reasons .. should I just try to find some real gear or are there some legal options out there that won't be overkill on the sides, while possibly adding a respectable 5-8 pounds of lean mass in an 8 week run?

 

[Dma378]

19nor DHEA is a good choice light on sides. Spartan Mass has it along with Androsterone for a pretty balanced product. Would recommend 2 bottles, 3 caps/day for 6 weeks for an easy 5-8lbs retained. Minimal cycle support, but definitely a solid pct necessary.

 

[LeanEngineer]

Hard rock supps super mandro and andro the giant is a great option for what you're wanting. You'll have to check them out and even take a look in the supplement logs section at some logs.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Could you get more specific on the toxicity of trest, OP?

Also, at the end of the day not sure what the difference is between being "immediately shutdown" (which with trest makes total sense, it is intended as a contraceptive, but NOT a chemical castration method) and "eventually shutdown"?

To be clear: not gonna pimp product, or try convince anyone to run something they unsure of. Just interested in the rationale of others

 

[jgntyce]

OP, if you ever think of going the natural route, then arachidonic acid would be up your alley for your goals. SNS X- GELS is the gold standard of ARA.

 

[Myrmidon]

Could you get more specific on the toxicity of trest, OP?

Also, at the end of the day not sure what the difference is between being "immediately shutdown" (which with trest makes total sense, it is intended as a contraceptive, but NOT a chemical castration method) and "eventually shutdown"?

To be clear: not gonna pimp product, or try convince anyone to run something they unsure of. Just interested in the rationale of others

I wish I could tell you! To be perfectly honest most of my research comes from the experiences of others on this site. So what I know is what I've seen others say. Trest is pretty liver toxic from what I've read, and most users say it has shut them down hard, which logically says to me its a pretty powerful/harsh compound. That's not something I want to mess with at this stage of my life. I guess the finer details aren't really all that relevant, at least to me. Those tidbits are all I need to know to cross it off my list. Not sure why exactly you're singling that out of my post except perhaps to highlight my ignorance. Guilty as charged. No problems with that, the more I learn the less I know when it comes to this subject.

Feel free to pimp away if there's something I'm mistaken on or have missed. I find myself finally in a position where I can run a few cycles over the next couple years. I'm expanding my research and trying to get a wider view on what's out there is all. I'm not schilling, down talking or being subversive. If I came off that way I apologize, but there is so much conflicting info out there I hope that can be forgiven.

I'm a consumer that's bought $1000s in supps from many of the companies on this site over the past five years. I have no favorites outside of the best quality vs. cost and the most honest reps.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Wasnt trying to highlight your possible ignorance man. On the contrary, am always keen to overcome my own.

I guess I havent seen any actual evidence of trest being toxic?

 

[Myrmidon]

OP, if you ever think of going the natural route, then arachidonic acid would be up your alley for your goals. SNS X- GELS is the gold standard of ARA.

I've used them and loved them, the natty anabolics are all crossed off my list for the most part. I'm to a point physique wise where Im ready to give the hard stuff a shot.

 

[Myrmidon]

Wasnt trying to highlight your possible ignorance man. On the contrary, am always keen to overcome my own.

I guess I havent seen any actual evidence of trest being toxic?

I know its non methylated so not as harsh that way, but somewhere I read its worse on your liver than say, the Andros for example. With everything out there Ive read about, I could also be mixed up! Am I totally wrong? This **** makes my head swim sometimes.

This is why I made this post. Just to put it out there, I've read your posts over the last year or so as a lurker and you have a lot of expertise that I do not. Im approaching this with as much respect to the board members and open eyes in regards to how little I know as possible is all. Hope I did not come off as combative.

 

[yates84]

Trest toxicity is very minimal. I've ran some crazy doses of trest for long periods of time with minimal toxicity sides and great looking blood work after cycle. Trest shutdown is user dependant, shuts some people down hard but others (like me) have minimal hpta impact from trest.

 

[yates84]

I know its non methylated so not as harsh that way, but somewhere I read its worse on your liver than say, the Andros for example. With everything out there Ive read about, I could also be mixed up! Am I totally wrong? This **** makes my head swim sometimes.

This is why I made this post. Just to put it out there, I've read your posts over the last year or so as a lurker and you have a lot of expertise that I do not. Im approaching this with as much respect to the board members and open eyes in regards to how little I know as possible is all. Hope I did not come off as combative.

Trest is a methyl but is a 7a methyl, not your standard 17a methyl. Methyl group position makes all the difference when it comes to toxicity to the body.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Further to yates' own experience...I always remember tbone saying how ostarine jacked up his liver values, yet he loved the fuk out of trest. He did some pretty high pre/intra workout doses, too.

I wouldnt really recommend trest as a first dive, tho.

As for the studies, theres actually quite a few human ones. Unfortunately, the vast bulk of them use a subcutaneous infusion type administration, which will be much closer to td than oral, obviously.

The doses are nowhere near what we use, but there is generally no reports of hepatotoxicity in the data.

Toxicity is a strong word. Id agree that maybe oral trest could impact someones liver values moreso than an andro, dose dependant of course. But yeah, in the way a methyl might? I think Id need to see some compelling evidence to believe it to be toxic, or at least hear the opinion of someone knowledgable in the relevant pharmacokinetics.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Oh, myrmidon, sorry your thread got taken on a bit of a tangent. I think something along the lines of what dma suggested would be good.

 

[Wreckosaurus]

Maybe lgd?

 

[Myrmidon]

Oh, myrmidon, sorry your thread got taken on a bit of a tangent. I think something along the lines of what dma suggested would be good.

All good, Im learning! Unfortunately it's time to reevaluate things. The risk vs. reward is so highly user dependent from what you guys are saying...the cut and dry answers I was hoping for are probably not realistic.

I think the nor plus androsterone will be a good first timers bulk though, mild with decent results and wont break the bank. If I get to a 4th or 5th cycle a few years from now without spontaneously combusting or my testicles imploding into black holes it looks like something a little more adventurous like trest may be an idea.