Ostarine/Dermacrine/dermastrength

[mmorso]

I just got some great feedback on a stack that I'm planning on running in a couple weeks for a cutting/recomp cycle. I'm gonna run

Dermacrine wks 1-6
Follidrone wks 1-8
Dermastrength wks 1-12
Yohimbine wks 1-12
Tr1umph wks 1-12

I'm thinking of adding in ostarine for 8 wks maybe at wk 3 in the cycle. Having never taken a SARM or PH before, would this be too much sh*t to be running? I'm 35, btw.

I also plan on getting some aromasin to have on hand and running nolva 20/20/10/10 + Alphamax and DAA as a PCT. Is the nolva dose too high for ostarine? Thanks

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Id personally turn that 12 week cycle into something much longer in order to really drain every potential gain from the products:

Weeks 1-8: ostarine + dermacrine + Yohimbine
Weeks 9-20: TR1UMPH
Weeks 9-12: PCT (nolva)
Weeks 13-20: Alphamax
Weeks 17-24: Follidrone
Weeks 20-28: Dermastrength

Thats a 6+ month run of the products, and youre always 'on' something either solo or stacked/bridged.

 

[mmorso]

I can't find any OL ostar1ne anywhere... Anyone know where I can get some?

 

[NewAgeMayan]

I can't find any OL ostar1ne anywhere... Anyone know where I can get some?

Tried the traders forum? Sometimes see some up for grabs there.

 

[warbird01]

Id personally turn that 12 week cycle into something much longer in order to really drain every potential gain from the products:

Weeks 1-8: ostarine + dermacrine + Yohimbine
Weeks 9-20: TR1UMPH
Weeks 9-12: PCT (nolva)
Weeks 13-20: Alphamax
Weeks 17-24: Follidrone
Weeks 20-28: Dermastrength

Thats a 6+ month run of the products, and youre always 'on' something either solo or stacked/bridged.

I would run the AlphaMax along side Nolva and then go into Follidrone.

But that is just nit picking.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

I would run the AlphaMax along side Nolva and then go into Follidrone.

But that is just nit picking.

Ha, yeah, there are numerous ways you could structure those products, with good accompanying reasons for doing so.

Given the choice between running a natty 't booster' in conjunction with a SERM or after, Id tend to favour after.

I guess I feel so strongly on that, that if the concern is cortisol (and a major reason for dosing the alphamax during PCT) then Id rather buy a cortisol-specific product for PCT and still save the tbooster for after PCT.

 

[mmorso]

Ha, yeah, there are numerous ways you could structure those products, with good accompanying reasons for doing so.

Given the choice between running a natty 't booster' in conjunction with a SERM or after, Id tend to favour after.

I guess I feel so strongly on that, that if the concern is cortisol (and a major reason for dosing the alphamax during PCT) then Id rather buy a cortisol-specific product for PCT and still save the tbooster for after PCT.

I was thinking the same about cortisol control with Alphamax during pct and figured dermacrine would be a test base that would make Alphamax not really doing anything; on the other hand, the forskolin in Alphamax would be a great ingredient with recomp/cutting in mind.

I'm having a hell of a time finding ostar1ne. I like the 5mg dose because I want to run maybe 10 or 15 mgs since I want to use it specifically to retain LBM while cutting. Anyone know of a ostarine product other than OL's that has 5 or 10 mg dosed tabs?

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Id personally cut on cycle with the osta, then gradually reverse diet once PCT starts so that, with time, you are eventually eating recomp kcals.

Generally, the osta will enable a more aggressive deficit whilst minimising otherwise innevitable muscle catabolism.

EDIT: looks like you got the idea.

 

[mmorso]

Id personally cut on cycle with the osta, then gradually reverse diet once PCT starts so that, with time, you are eventually eating recomp kcals.

Generally, the osta will enable a more aggressive deficit whilst minimising otherwise innevitable muscle catabolism.

EDIT: looks like you got the idea.

How would 11-keto compare to ostarine for maintaining LBM whilst cutting... I'm considering getting some 11-keto instead. I'm not too knowledgable on 11-keto, if it's DHT based or not, and what the sides are... Could I run it with dermacrine?

 

[NewAgeMayan]

How would 11-keto compare to ostarine for maintaining LBM whilst cutting... I'm considering getting some 11-keto instead. I'm not too knowledgable on 11-keto, if it's DHT based or not, and what the sides are... Could I run it with dermacrine?

Hmm, Id be more confident in ostas capacity to be anti catabolic; but, Id be more confident in 11kt's capacity to amplify fat loss.

On paper at least, Id say 11kt might generate the kind of fat loss youd potentially see running osta and a more extreme kcal deficit.

 

[mmorso]

So would running 11kt with dermacrine at maintenance cals help me lean out and maybe also gain some LBM? Would running the two still require a legit SERM for a pct, or could I maybe get away with something like BLR Rebirth? Thanks for all your help man!!!

 

[NewAgeMayan]

So would running 11kt with dermacrine at maintenance cals help me lean out and maybe also gain some LBM?

Hard to say how much lean muscle these might add to what you would normally be able to accrue natty-wise, they arent really reknown for being unequivocal muscle-builders in the sense that, say, 1andro or LGD might be...know what I mean?

I mean, if you are just wanting to lean out and retain as much lean tissue as possible, well thats pretty easy, 11kt will be excellent at helping with that. If you also want to ADD muscle mass too? Well, Id be inclined to add in something that is much more anabolically potent (unless you are eating kcal surplus). But hey man, its easy for me to say because Im familiar with how easy (difficult) it is for me to put on lean mass over given periods of time natty, so I have a pretty good idea of what I need to do to successfully recomp...putting diet aside, I would go for an anabolic base and then something that will aid in fat loss.

Would running the two still require a legit SERM for a pct, or could I maybe get away with something like BLR Rebirth? Thanks for all your help man!!!

11kt and dermacrine? As a rep Id always recommend running a proper SERM (reduced dose, though).

 

[mmorso]

How suppressed would I get running 8 weeks of ostarine at 10 mgs with Dermacrine? Should I have exemestane on hand?

 

[NewAgeMayan]

How suppressed would I get running 8 weeks of ostarine at 10 mgs with Dermacrine? Should I have exemestane on hand?

Cant predict that with any certainty unfortunately; some guys get shutdown, others stay within range.

Always have an AI available for use.

 

[mmorso]

Is 20/20/10/10 of nolva too high for an 8 wk 10 mg osta run?

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Is 20/20/10/10 of nolva too high for an 8 wk 10 mg osta run?

Thats standard dosing for nolva.

Id personally decrease if I were just running a compound like 11kt.

 

[mmorso]

Thats standard dosing for nolva.

Id personally decrease if I were just running a compound like 11kt.

What would a decrease dose be?

 

[NewAgeMayan]

What would a decrease dose be?

Dropping the last week, at least thats what Id do. I havent come across any agreed upon protocol as I have for regular dosing.

 

[mmorso]

20/20/10 or 20/10/10?

 

[NewAgeMayan]

20/20/10 or 20/10/10?

The latter one.

 

[mmorso]

Here's my plan...

Wks 1-8: Ostar1ne 10mg + Yohimbine 7.5mg + Dermacrine + 3g HMB-FA

Wks 9-11: Nolva 20/10/10 + Reduce XT + Tr1umph

Wks 11-20: Alphamax XT + DAA + Dermastrength UL + Tr1umph + Follidrone

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Looks pretty good...why run the hmb on cycle tho? And Id run a regular nolva dosing PCT myself.

 

[mmorso]

Looks pretty good...why run the hmb on cycle tho? And Id run a regular nolva dosing PCT myself.

Yeah good point. I'll do the HMB pct as I gradually reverse diet. I thought you recommended 20/10/10...

 

[mmorso]

Thats standard dosing for nolva.

Id personally decrease if I were just running a compound like 11kt.

Nevermind

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Yeah good point. I'll do the HMB pct as I gradually reverse diet. I thought you recommended 20/10/10...

Only for a lighter hormonal like 11kt. Ostarine Id stick with traditional...up to you of course.

EDIT:^ ya

 

[mmorso]

Only for a lighter hormonal like 11kt. Ostarine Id stick with traditional...up to you of course.

EDIT:^ ya

Which would you run between 11kt and ostarine for a cut?

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Which would you run between 11kt and ostarine for a cut?

Hmm, other variables may lead me to choose one over other but, Id probably go ostarine if we are considering them solely as stand alone compounds.

 

[mmorso]

Well in the stack I got set up I'm considering switching Osta for 11kt... Seems like a lot of people who've ran Osta are a little indifferent about it... 11kt sounds like it will yield more fat loss.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Well in the stack I got set up I'm considering switching Osta for 11kt... Seems like a lot of people who've ran Osta are a little indifferent about it... 11kt sounds like it will yield more fat loss.

Sure. And really the only reason I might favour osta is the potential it has for yielding increased lean mass, moreso than 11kt. But, that edge in potency comes at a cost (increase in sides). Plus, as you indicated, not everyone experiences osta as an obvious lean gainz compound.

 

[mmorso]

Since there's only a slight concern for aromatization with 11kt, do I still need to have an AI on hand... Also, would clomid be better than nolva for pct?

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Since there's only a slight concern for aromatization with 11kt, do I still need to have an AI on hand... Also, would clomid be better than nolva for pct?

It is our general recommendation that when you run any potentially suppressive hormonal, you have an AI such as exem available for use.

Id prefer clomid myself.

 

[mmorso]

I decided on Sup3r-11 + Dermacrine... How/when would you dose this: I'm not sure what the half life is on 11kt and I've read some suggestions saying dose the 2ml once daily... Any suggestions?

 

[mmorso]

I decided on Sup3r 11 + Dermacrine... How/when should I dose it? I'm not sure what the half life is for 11kt and don't know if I should go 250mg once daily or 125mg twice daily...

 

[NewAgeMayan]

I decided on Sup3r-11 + Dermacrine... How/when would you dose this: I'm not sure what the half life is on 11kt and I've read some suggestions saying dose the 2ml once daily... Any suggestions?

I decided on Sup3r 11 + Dermacrine... How/when should I dose it? I'm not sure what the half life is for 11kt and don't know if I should go 250mg once daily or 125mg twice daily...

Its prolly not gonna make a huge difference, do what is convenient. If you can, I think splitting the applications can be helpful as it may lead to increased absorption; it certainly wont result in less. This is especially the case when wanting to apply largish amounts, and 250mg is getting up there. If doing one application, go for as much body coverage as possible (neck, clavicle, traps, pecs, shoulders are prime).

 

[The_Old_Guy]

I added a lot of strength on an 8 week 22mg Osta cycle - in a -800kcal deficit. Dropped ~12lbs IIRC. So I like Osta, haven't tried 11-KT yet.

 

[mmorso]

Thanks everyone, especially newagemayan, for all the help setting up this cutting cycle!! I'm looking forward to a 1st ph run and hope my future kids don't have Down syndrome or spinal bifida or f*ckd up looking toes or something.

 

[mmorso]

What do you guys think about running HMB while on 11kt? Newagemayan had pointed out to me earlier that HMB on cycle with Osta was not necessary, though 11kt isn't as anti catabolic as osta...

 

[NewAgeMayan]

What do you guys think about running HMB while on 11kt? Newagemayan had pointed out to me earlier that HMB on cycle with Osta was not necessary, though 11kt isn't as anti catabolic as osta...

Sorry man, I may have been misleading.

11kt will be 'anticatabolic', but on a really agressive cut, like 1000kcal+ deficit, I think osta might be more capable.

Generally speaking, you are probably going to have to be going to some extremes, over extended periods of time, to experience net muscle loss.

Now, you said you wished to build some muscle too? HMB will not typically directly do that. You may be best aiming for maintanence kcal intake, or slightly less. 11kt will be beneficial in such a non extreme environment; Im not sure HMB will add much. But, the calcium powder is cheap...you were looking at HMBca? Or HMBfa? I cant remember.

 

[mmorso]

Sorry man, I may have been misleading.

11kt will be 'anticatabolic', but on a really agressive cut, like 1000kcal+ deficit, I think osta might be more capable.

Generally speaking, you are probably going to have to be going to some extremes, over extended periods of time, to experience net muscle loss.

Now, you said you wished to build some muscle too? HMB will not typically directly do that. You may be best aiming for maintanence kcal intake, or slightly less. 11kt will be beneficial in such a non extreme environment; Im not sure HMB will add much. But, the calcium powder is cheap...you were looking at HMBca? Or HMBfa? I cant remember.

HMB-FA.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

HMB-FA.

What kind of kcal deficit you planning for your cycle? 100-500kcal, dont bother with hmbfa.

Will your training be what you have been currently doing? Is recovery good? If so, dont bother with hmbfa.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

What do you guys think about running HMB while on 11kt? Newagemayan had pointed out to me earlier that HMB on cycle with Osta was not necessary, though 11kt isn't as anti catabolic as osta...

I run HMB-CA 365. Research and price made it a staple.

 

[mmorso]

What kind of kcal deficit you planning for your cycle? 100-500kcal, dont bother with hmbfa.

Will your training be what you have been currently doing? Is recovery good? If so, dont bother with hmbfa.

I'm planning on having around a 500 cal deficit and adding daily cardio with 3 sessions/wk being HIIT; I also lift around an hour/day 6 days a week... My daily net cals will prob be between 1300-1700 cals. I think my current BMR (based on my stats) is ~2200. I will also be on a CKD with carb-ups every 10 days or so..

I had great success with this routine last winter, though I did loose some LBM and my lifts went down. One of the reasons I'm interested in running a cycle is to preserve mass.

I'm thinking of focusing on lifting heavy (6-8 reps) rather than going for volume. My current split is

M: chest, arms, abs
T: back
W: legs, abs
Th: chest, arms,
F: back
S: legs, abs
S: off

If you have any suggestions, please let me know. I wanna have everything dialed in before running the 11kt, which should get here Monday. I started the dermacrine today and am getting stoked!!!

 

[NewAgeMayan]

I'm planning on having around a 500 cal deficit and adding daily cardio with 3 sessions/wk being HIIT; I also lift around an hour/day 6 days a week... My daily net cals will prob be between 1300-1700 cals. I think my current BMR (based on my stats) is ~2200. I will also be on a CKD with carb-ups every 10 days or so..

I had great success with this routine last winter, though I did loose some LBM and my lifts went down. One of the reasons I'm interested in running a cycle is to preserve mass.

I'm thinking of focusing on lifting heavy (6-8 reps) rather than going for volume. My current split is

M: chest, arms, abs
T: back
W: legs, abs
Th: chest, arms,
F: back
S: legs, abs
S: off

If you have any suggestions, please let me know. I wanna have everything dialed in before running the 11kt, which should get here Monday. I started the dermacrine today and am getting stoked!!!

If you already have Clear Muscle, then yeah maybe it will benefit your run. If we put an arbitrary "intensity" number on the training/diet/cardio you are planning for your cycle, say 8/10, how would you rank what you are currently doing by comparison (just as intense, significantly less intense, etc)?

I dont want to overthink/overcomplicate this....but Clear Muscle is expensive, wouldnt want you to use it needlessly.

 

[mmorso]

Currently I'm at 6 or 7: 1 hr lifting 6 days/week, and am eating slightly above maintenance (~ 2,500 net cals). I've been out of keto and quit cardio for the past 12 wks or so, wanting to bulk. I'm planning on training to failure daily + cardio on this cycle.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Currently I'm at 6 or 7: 1 hr lifting 6 days/week, and am eating slightly above maintenance (~ 2,500 net cals). I've been out of keto and quit cardio for the past 12 wks or so, wanting to bulk. I'm planning on training to failure daily + cardio on this cycle.

Yeah, to be honest I think if I had the Clear Muscle already in my stash Id be inclined to use it, given the training/diet/etc you are planning.

 

[lifted67]

Yeah, to be honest I think if I had the Clear Muscle already in my stash Id be inclined to use it, given the training/diet/etc you are planning.

You can get HMB at a much cheaper price than MuscleTech Clear Muscle costs.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

You can get HMB at a much cheaper price than MuscleTech Clear Muscle costs.

Youre talking about the ca version, ya? Yeah I got a bulk bag of that stuff.

 

[mmorso]

Hell yeah started the super11 today. I'm broke and couldn't afford to get any exemestane to have on hand in case i get estro sides.. Am I being retarded running it without having the exem? Also, in the event that I get estro sides, since 11kt and dermacrine are described as 'mild,' would I just be able to dose the nolva I got for my pct, or even Alphamax, since it has an AI complex in it?

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Hell yeah started the super11 today. I'm broke and couldn't afford to get any exemestane to have on hand in case i get estro sides.. Am I being retarded running it without having the exem? Also, in the event that I get estro sides, since 11kt and dermacrine are described as 'mild,' would I just be able to dose the nolva I got for my pct, or even Alphamax, since it has an AI complex in it?

Exem inhibits ~98% in 48 hours. Nolva leaves all the Estro, it just blocks the receptor in breast tissue. Good luck with a "natty" AI. Since you decided against having one of the most effective AIs on hand for insurance - your only choice would be to immediately stop the cycle and dose the Nolva - letting your CYP enzymes clear the Estrogen. But Gyno worries from 11KT and Dermacrine are highly unlikely IMO.

 

[mmorso]

Exem inhibits ~98% in 48 hours. Nolva leaves all the Estro, it just blocks the receptor in breast tissue. Good luck with a "natty" AI. Since you decided against having one of the most effective AIs on hand for insurance - your only choice would be to immediately stop the cycle and dose the Nolva - letting your CYP enzymes clear the Estrogen. But Gyno worries from 11KT and Dermacrine are highly unlikely IMO.

So would stopping the cycle and taking Nolva fix a gyno flare up? Or would I still be screwed? I'm not too concerned with gyno considering the compounds that I'm running... I do feel very irresponsible though. Just wanted to have a contingency plan in case I do get gyno probs and don't have exem.