Superdrol cycle and PCT

[thanatopsis]

Hey all, I've had a few posts in here so far trying to get everything lined out for a Superdrol cycle but there are still some things I wasn't able to get out of those threads or by searching. So here goes.

I intend to do a 20 mg per day cycle of Superdrol. I will accompany this with Hawthorn Berry, CoQ10, Milk Thistle, and Red Rice Yeast.

My PCT will consist of Rebound XT and Nolvadex, and I'll probably use some leftover Unleashed from Protein factory after those are used up since I have it anyway.

Question being... I'm combining RXT and Nolva. What dosages do I take of these items? I see things like 40/20/20 for Nolva and I'm not sure what is meant by that... can someone help me out and explain in detail what is meant? And I'm also wondering if my dosage of RXT will be different combined with Nolva.

Thanks again all, this board has been a big help so far.

 

[dess]

i looking for the same answers that u r, but just a pointer the hawthorn berry takes along time to build up in ur system and take effect, unless u have been using it about 2 months prior to ur cycle it is better to use celery seed extract for bp control, it acts fast

 

[MarcusG]

You should reduce your dosage of RXT if you are taking nolva as well.

Don't understand 20/20/20? Do a search for 'nolva AND dosage' in thread titles and you'll find everything you need.

 

[Mach .78]

I'll tell you what 40/20/20 means. It means you should take 40 mg of Nolva every day for the first week, 20 mg the second week and 20 for the third. Start rebound the third week at 50 mg a day then 25 for the fourth week and finally 25 for the fifth week. The combo overlaps. I would start at 10 mg of SD. There are some big guys getting great results from 10 mg. Glad to help.

 

[thanatopsis]

If I am using liquid nolva how many grams is one mL equivalent to?

Thanks for the advice so far guys.

One thing I just thought of... I tend to take stimulant type products to help me make it through the day, how safe are these combined with SD? I'm only worried since SD is said to raise blood pressure, and I believe these stimulant products would compound it. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[MarcusG]

Huh? It should be labeled or posted in its description since I'm sure you didn't homebrew it.

Buy a bloodpressure cuff. Cheapo one with analog dial should do.

 

[cb11mass]

Yes it should be on the label and it will be in Mg/ML not g/ML.

 

[Mach .78]

There is 20 mg in a ml of Tamoxifen Citrate. It's a 60 ml vial.

 

[dess]

yea mach is rite 20mg/ml but i read somewhere that if u using the liquid nolva from nutrition warehouse the conversion is this:

.75ml = 10mg
1.5ml = 20mg
2.25ml = 30mg
3ml = 40mg

this is wat someone else posted becuase the 1.5mg tamoxifen citrate is equal to 1 mg nolva.

 

[Mach .78]

So If I got it from IBE, is it the same conversion? 1.5 ml =20 mg?
I'm edited my last post to read Tamoxifen Citrate instead of Nolva.

 

[Marsh11]

yea mach is rite 20mg/ml but i read somewhere that if u using the liquid nolva from nutrition warehouse the conversion is this:

.75ml = 10mg
1.5ml = 20mg
2.25ml = 30mg
3ml = 40mg

this is wat someone else posted becuase the 1.5mg tamoxifen citrate is equal to 1 mg nolva.

Does anyone know if this is absolutely true? I have a cycle coming up so im definately curious.

 

[Gizmo]

Tamoxifen citrate= Nolvadex


Giz

 

[dess]

the one on nutrition warehouse has more citrate diluting it, hence 1.5 = 1

 

[dess]

check this thread out: nolva dosage they talk about it there, mach i not sure aobut ibe but i would think its the same as nutrition warehouse becuase they're both research nolva

 

[Mach .78]

Hey Giz, Is that you in the avatar? Just say yes and everybody will think Lance is on AM. :box: I'm wearing my yellow band for you man. :drunk: Thanks Dess, I remember reading about that before. I'll check the thread you put up, thanks.

Checked it out: 3ml/1.5/1.5 That's my dose for the cycle. You da man.

 

[Gizmo]

Hey Giz, Is that you in the avatar? Just say yes and everybody will think Lance is on AM. :box: I'm wearing my yellow band for you man. :drunk:

Hehehe..it's not me in my avatar, me and Lance just shared the same disease, thanks for the support though bro.

Oh, and thanks for the info Dess, i'll be increasing my postcycle right away(i'm currently doing PCT), although it was only Mohn/4-ad, and i don't feel like it shut me down at all, still doin PCT..just being cautious...

 

[thanatopsis]

Alright, thanks for the heads up on the conversion guys!

 

[Bumbaclaat]

Gizmo, how did that cycel work out for you? What dosages did you use, etc?

 

[Gizmo]

I ran

week 1 24mg Mohn/900mg 4-ad
week 2 28mg mohn/900 mg 4-ad
week 3 32mg mohn/900 mg 4-ad
week 4 32mg mohn/900mg 4-ad
I ran trimax along with it in week 2 3 and 4
I went from 212 to 201 and didn't lose any strength.

I didn't really notice i was "on", but it's a lot harder in a cutter to notice...

Giz

 

[natiels]

I would consider getting enough fish oil to take 10 caps a day throughout your cycle. I have heard its good to use fish oil while on methyls to help with lipids and it seems when looking through the threads around here that those who used fish oil throughout their cycles had better results on their blood work.

I am wondering what the point of nolva with SD is if you are not experiencing gyno. I have not read of anyone who developed gyno from SD and the compound in SD is anti-estrogenic in itself. I always thought the main point of taking rebound XT post cycle(for superdrol) was to get test levels back up by lowering estrogen rather than controlling estrogen for the purpose of avoiding gyno. Nolva doesnt lower estrogen in the same way Rebound does so it doesnt cause test levels to increase. I think its best to have the nolva on hand in case you need it but I don't think it will be needed for PCT if you are taking rebound.

Maybe there is something i am missing about the nolva thing so please correct me if i am wrong, but from what i have read i don't see the point(in this case).

One last thing, you may want to consider lowering the dosage to 10-15mg per day throughout the cycle. You lower your chances of experiencing sides and will likely still see great gains unless you don't respond well to androgens. There are a lot of threads you can read around here where people ran 15mgs or even 10 and got really nice results. I ran 16.6 mg a day for a week and then lowered to 10mg a day and gained 12 lbs.

 

[BigP0ppa3]

I would consider getting enough fish oil to take 10 caps a day throughout your cycle. I have heard its good to use fish oil while on methyls to help with lipids and it seems when looking through the threads around here that those who used fish oil throughout their cycles had better results on their blood work.

I am wondering what the point of nolva with SD is if you are not experiencing gyno. I have not read of anyone who developed gyno from SD and the compound in SD is anti-estrogenic in itself. I always thought the main point of taking rebound XT post cycle(for superdrol) was to get test levels back up by lowering estrogen rather than controlling estrogen for the purpose of avoiding gyno. Nolva doesnt lower estrogen in the same way Rebound does so it doesnt cause test levels to increase. I think its best to have the nolva on hand in case you need it but I don't think it will be needed for PCT if you are taking rebound.

Maybe there is something i am missing about the nolva thing so please correct me if i am wrong, but from what i have read i don't see the point(in this case).

The point being that it is becoming increasingly clear that RXT after an SD cycle can really ruin your lipid profile.

Nolva can actually help your profile post-cycle which is why it's good to go with that as PCT.

CEDeoudes59's thread should help explain a little more clearly: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27946

BP

 

[Marsh11]

Thanx for the useful info Dess..

Peace

 

[natiels]

The point being that it is becoming increasingly clear that RXT after an SD cycle can really ruin your lipid profile.

Well, I was referring to this particular case and in this case it seems he is already going to be using RXT. I also don't think it has become clear that RXT ruins lipid profiles. It is common knowledge that methylated orals ruin lipids and that has been proven. It has only been suggested that RXT might keep your lipids from getting better right away, not that it makes it worse.

When someone finishes a cycle of a methylated oral and has a messed up lipid profile that is no big surprise, just because they used RXT as PCT doesnt mean the RXT is what screwed up the lipids and it doesnt really prove anything.

There are studies that go both ways on the effects of estrogen(unfortunately most of them are on post-menopausal women) on lipid profiles and every compound is different so i don't really think its fair to pin RXT with causing poor lipid values without more real proof.

Personally i would rather run the unfounded risk of keeping my lipids bad for an extra 2 weeks in order to boost my test levels back up and get out of suppression that much faster. After all, if you lose major gains because you were stuck in suppression then you just killed your lipids for no reason at all.

I can see your point of using nolva to help lipids. This post is really just to defend RXT a bit. It seems that one person posted something about RXT possibly being bad for lipids and everyone sorta jumped on the idea and now its all over the boards when there isnt really much proof.

EDIT:
I did a bit more research on estrogen and it seems that extremely low/zero levels for prolonged periods can have a negative effect on the lipid profile. I still believe that the short period of RXT administration following a cycle is not a problem and that the benefits of quickly bringing testosterone levels back up outweigh the lipid risks. I guess this is just something that one has to decide for oneself after doing some research and consideration.

For me after 19 days of superdrol it only required about a week and a half of 1 cap a day RXT to bring test back up. libido, mood, oily skin, teste size all signs of increased test were up and i can't imagine only 1 cap a day for two weeks(when i am finished) will have lowered my estrogen enough to have a lasting or noticeable impact on lipids.

 

[dess]

is that true nolva does not help ur natural test rebound to normal levels. i was under the impression that nolva was the tried and true supp for doing this and rebound xt was the realtively new guy on the scene. i know they use different methods of accomplishing thier goals, nolva competitevly competes w/ estrogen for receptors while rxt i think just straight up lowers estrogen levels, but i was under impression that they both accomplish the same goal. can someone pls comment on this cuz now i'm real confused and not sure if i should go with nolva for pct for my upcomign sd cycle

 

[Marsh11]

You would want to run Nolva along with RXT or something like 6oxo.

 

[MarcusG]

is that true nolva does not help ur natural test rebound to normal levels. i was under the impression that nolva was the tried and true supp for doing this and rebound xt was the realtively new guy on the scene.....

Where did you get this from?

You would want to run Nolva along with RXT or something like 6oxo

Why? What for?

 

[3D Lee]

I keep reading that SD screws up your lipid profile but what does that mean from a practical standpoint? This is my first and only time to use a PH so I'm a little undereducated on the technical jargon.

 

[Marsh11]

This allows you to block the estrogen at the receptor sites while lowering the estrogen in your body and all the while raising testosterone.. I ve ran all my PCT's like that minus the RXT. Gets the boys up and working in no time.

 

[MarcusG]

This allows you to block the estrogen at the receptor sites while lowering the estrogen in your body and all the while raising testosterone.. I ve ran all my PCT's like that minus the RXT. Gets the boys up and working in no time.

Estrogen is already low otherwise you wouldn't need to raise testosterone.
Is the point of RXT to lower estrogen even lower than suppressed levels?
Is nolva incapable of dealing with lowered estrogen levels during the recovery period?

If you say you ran all your PCT minus RXT, why are you giving different advice?

 

[MarcusG]

I keep reading that SD screws up your lipid profile but what does that mean from a practical standpoint? This is my first and only time to use a PH so I'm a little undereducated on the technical jargon.

Lipid profile refers to cholesterol/triglyceride scores in blood tests.

 

[Marsh11]

maybe im confused as to the complete effects of RXT.. for that I apologize.

 

[Mach .78]

For those who haven't seen this thread.
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26034&highlight=ultimate+combo

 

[jmh80]

Marcus - you are wrong. Estrogen levels rebound very quickly upon the cessation of an androgen. So, they arne't suppressed. And Nolva and Rebound are interchangeable. Whether one is better or not is a different story.

That's why we take Nolva (and Rebound is the new guy on the scene). It competes at the estrogen receptor, lowering the effect of the recently increased estrogen.

Nolva and Rebound are different. But, it's not like Nolva doesn't work. What do you think guys used before Rebound? Nolva's been used for years.

 

[MarcusG]

Marcus - you are wrong. Estrogen levels rebound very quickly upon the cessation of an androgen. So, they arne't suppressed. And Nolva and Rebound are interchangeable. Whether one is better or not is a different story.

That's why we take Nolva (and Rebound is the new guy on the scene). It competes at the estrogen receptor, lowering the effect of the recently increased estrogen.

Nolva and Rebound are different. But, it's not like Nolva doesn't work. What do you think guys used before Rebound? Nolva's been used for years.

Why do you say estrogen rebounds quickly? Most of the estrogen comes from metabolized testosterone.

So if estrogen level raise up very quickly during the PCT period, why is nolva insufficient?

I didn't say nolva doesn't work. I was asking why it is necessary or good to run RXT concurrently.

 

[jmh80]

Marcus - nolva is not insufficient. It just works in different paths than Rebound. I believe that is why people are taking both. However, in light of the negative effect on lipids, I personally would still use Nolva. (In fact, I'm planning on it.)

Mach - I think this is more of a lipids issue, IMO, than a response to raising test. But maybe others could weigh in.

 

[MarcusG]

...
Why would you take Nolva along with Rebound? Nolva allows for normalization of estrogen levels,which is good on the lipids. Rebound overlapped at the end of say a 3 weeker has allowed things to normalize but now you are raising Test by Rebound binding to the aromatase enzyme, thus raising Test. Rebound XT doesn't appear to be ideal right after a cycle when you want things to return to normal first.

Did I graduate? Someone tell me if I'm wrong here.

It sounds interesting. Its looks like RXT is used in a more post-PCT manner. I missed the thread in the anabolic section.

jmh80, I know how both work. The issue was why, because no one seems to explain why an AI is necessary when estrogen is at already at rock bottom levels during PCT.

 

[Mach .78]

Paging Dr. D

Mach - I think this is more of a lipids issue, IMO, than a response to raising test. But maybe others could weigh in.

From what I've seen elsewhere. Rebound XT will do what it does best, control estrogen rather than letting it come back to normal levels. Nolva allows for estrogen to normalize thus improving lipids in the process. I hope I'm right on this.

jmh80, I know how both work. The issue was why, because no one seems to explain why an AI is necessary when estrogen is at already at rock bottom levels during PCT.

Paging Dr. D