M-sten/Trenavar/Epistane Cycle

[coltonwalker]

This will be my second cycle. Awhile back I tried halodbol and had an awesome time, everything went smooth and loved the outcome. My new cycle is going to be 4 week cycle of msten tren and epi (all in one pill which contains 22mg trenavar, 10mg epistane, and 6mg msten) which will look a little something like this:
week 1 - 44mg trenavar, 20mg epistane, 12mg msten
week 2-4 66mg trenavar, 20mg epistane, 18mg msten.
IronMagLabs advanced cycle
Inhibit-p (for the tren)
multi
fish oil
lots of water
PCT:
vital labs 3x
cortisol control
multi
fish oil
week 5-8 nolva 20//20/10/10
week 5-10 arimidex .5mg ed (or .25?)


I understand that none of the compounds aromatize, however I'm adding adex to ward off rebound gyno from nolva. none convert to estrogen, but I should incorporate a SERM. I have read so many different things about rebound gyno, but I am pretty sure I have that under control with nolva and adex. One question that I really dont know yet is would I absolutely need caber or is inhibit-p enough? Im a ways out from starting this cycle so I have plenty of time to take all comments to heart. Just wondering if any vets have suggestions for PCT to help the boys get back up to par quick and escape rebound gyno. First time posting on the forum. Any advice is greatly appreciated!

Thanks guys

Update: figured Id add my stats. 23, 6'2" 250 at 15%

 

[Nickrip775123]

I'll be following.

 

[coltonwalker]

Any suggestions on pct? Mainly concerned about rebound gyno and prog. Gyno from the tren. Anyone?

 

[Woody]

Inhibit P should be fine. That's a low dose of Tren.

 

[bradray5871]

I think i would run it like this
1-4 msten 18 per day
3-8 trenavar 88 per day
3-8 epistane 30 per day

Run nolva for 6 weeks at 20/20/20/10/10/10 run some sort of cycle support weeks 1-8 and run an AI 3rd week of pct for 6 weeks. But of course, that is just me and you can run it however you want. Good luck!

 

[HardCore1]

I think he referred to it as being all in one pill. Although, I do like and would also use it the same way you would as well.

 

[coltonwalker]

Yeah it is one pill sadly.. I will change nolva to 6 though and start a adex week 3 of that. Correct ?

 

[Woody]

Yeah it is one pill sadly.. I will change nolva to 6 though and start a adex week 3 of that. Correct ?

You should be fine with 4 weeks of Nolva

 

[HardCore1]

Imo, yes!

 

[bradray5871]

6 weeks for Nolva was my way, 4 weeks is fine your way!

 

[coltonwalker]

6 weeks for Nolva was my way, 4 weeks is fine your way!

Would it be ok to run for 6 if I have the resources or is that an overkill by far? Better save than sorry!

 

[coltonwalker]

Thank you guys. Really cleared some worries up about pct. I'll be posting in july

 

[coltonwalker]

One last thing and I promise I'm done lol. Do I really need the arimidex? And for dosing should I split the nolva into 10mg morn 10mg night for week 1-2 pct and 5/5 for the 3rd and 4th week pct Or just take the whole 20 and 10.

 

[coltonwalker]

Update: did some reading around the forums and with the goodies I'm running, it sounds like I dont need adex with my pct. would ne counterproductive. Ill just run nolva and an otc

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Arimidex isn't necessary but having an ai on hand is a smart choice if your funds allow it, although I would reccomend aromasin instead

 

[jgntyce]

I noticed you said for PCT you have cortisol control. Which specific product are you using? I suggest SNS REDUCE XT to combat the rise in cortisol as you want your body to come back to homeostasis and to keep your hard earned gains.

 

[coltonwalker]

Arimidex isn't necessary but having an ai on hand is a smart choice if your funds allow it, although I would reccomend aromasin instead

a suicide inhibitor for a low dose short cycle?

 

[AnabolicGuru]

a suicide inhibitor for a low dose short cycle?

I would just have it on hand incase estrogen problems arise like puffy/itchy nipples, you don't want to utilize it unless this happens, too low of estrogen is a bad thing

 

[coltonwalker]

I noticed you said for PCT you have cortisol control. Which specific product are you using? I suggest SNS REDUCE XT to combat the rise in cortisol as you want your body to come back to homeostasis and to keep your hard earned gains.

I will be using SNS product, but rather Inhibit P not reduce XT along with 300-400mg B6

 

[coltonwalker]

Awesome! thanks Guru. I do have the funds so ill have it on hand.

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Awesome! thanks Guru. I do have the funds so ill have it on hand.

I wish I had it on hand when I ran my epistane haha, I got a bit of rebound from that cycle

 

[Jebrook]

a suicide inhibitor for a low dose short cycle?

Probably not necessary for this cycle but if worried about rebound a suicide inhibitor is preferable IMO. It's too bad you can't do 6-8 weeks of the Epi and Tren. Those two compounds are dosed too low in this blend and will barely be fully kicked in by the time you cycle off.

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Probably not necessary for this cycle but if worried about rebound a suicide inhibitor is preferable IMO. It's too bad you can't do 6-8 weeks of the Epi and Tren. Those two compounds are dosed too low in this blend and will barely be fully kicked in by the time you cycle off.

I think he made an error in the layout, it looks like he goes up to 30mg which is a solid dosage imo

 

[coltonwalker]

Probably not necessary for this cycle but if worried about rebound a suicide inhibitor is preferable IMO. It's too bad you can't do 6-8 weeks of the Epi and Tren. Those two compounds are dosed too low in this blend and will barely be fully kicked in by the time you cycle off.

ill be getting aroma then. Thank you. and I know... I was hoping the tren was a little stronger if anything but ya can't have it all lol. I do have some left overs (about 6 pills). Should I run the last 6 days at 4 pills rather than three? or is that getting to high for msten with it only being second cycle

 

[Jebrook]

ill be getting aroma then. Thank you. and I know... I was hoping the tren was a little stronger if anything but ya can't have it all lol. I do have some left overs (about 6 pills). Should I run the last 6 days at 4 pills rather than three? or is that getting to high for msten with it only being second cycle

You can do that or just add two extra days to the cycle. It really won't make much of a difference IMO.

 

[AnabolicGuru]

I would run the extra pill for the last 6 days, dosages would be more ideal

 

[coltonwalker]

I would run the extra pill for the last 6 days, dosages would be more ideal

awesome! Thank you guys for all the help. Most I've gotten yet. Love the site. Here is what ill be doing now.

On cycle
Tren - 44 for 7 days/ 66 for 17 days/ 88 for last 6
Msten - 12 for 7 days/ 18 for 17/ 24 last 6
Epi - 20 for 7/ 30 for 17/ 40 last 6
IronMagLabs advanced cycle therapy
Inhibit P (prolactin) for the tren and B6 200mg (100 am 100 pm)
Fish oil, multi, zma


Post Cycle
Vital labs 3x
Nolva 20/20/10/10/5
Cort. Control and 1000mg C
Fish oil, multi, zma

have suicidal AI on hand (aromasin) for rebound gyno or puffy/itchy nipnips

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Looks great! I would add tudca because you are running two methylated compounds though. The 5mg nolva for the last week isnt really necessary imo but it couldn't hurt

 

[dredmentia]

I actually am planning on running a cycle similar to what this guy is proposing, however my ideas for dosing are much different. I have 4 bottles of 20mg Trenevar/5mg msten capsules (60 count), as well as 2 bottles of 20mg Tren (60 count), and 2 bottles of 20mg epistane (60 count).
My original plan was to run 20mg msten/120mg tren/40mg epistane but decided this is most likely overkill, so I'm saving the epistane for a later date. I was going to go 20mg msten/120 tren/300 4 andro for 8 weeks, does anyone think the Tren dosage is too high? I was told it really needs to be 100mg or more

 

[jgntyce]

Looks great! I would add tudca because you are running two methylated compounds though. The 5mg nolva for the last week isnt really necessary imo but it couldn't hurt

Good advice here. CEL TUDCA is very cost effective and is used by many on this forum.

 

[coltonwalker]

Awesome guys. Again, thank you. All great info and I loveeee to learn. And I wish I could help dred lol. But probably don't want advice from me yet

 

[coltonwalker]

Awesome guys. Again, thank you. All great info and I loveeee to learn. And I wish I could help dred lol. But probably don't want advice from me yet

 

[Jebrook]

I actually am planning on running a cycle similar to what this guy is proposing, however my ideas for dosing are much different. I have 4 bottles of 20mg Trenevar/5mg msten capsules (60 count), as well as 2 bottles of 20mg Tren (60 count), and 2 bottles of 20mg epistane (60 count).
My original plan was to run 20mg msten/120mg tren/40mg epistane but decided this is most likely overkill, so I'm saving the epistane for a later date. I was going to go 20mg msten/120 tren/300 4 andro for 8 weeks, does anyone think the Tren dosage is too high? I was told it really needs to be 100mg or more

120 mg is the common sweet spot dosage. 90 mg works just fine for many but 100+ is usually preferred. You can go higher on Msten as well without much worry. So I would run 25-30 mg Sten and 100-120mg Tren using only the combo bottles. Save your solo Tren bottles for an Epi/Tren combo later on. Pick up something for prolactin control.

 

[dredmentia]

120 mg is the common sweet spot dosage. 90 mg works just fine for many but 100+ is usually preferred. You can go higher on Msten as well without much worry. So I would run 25-30 mg Sten and 100-120mg Tren using only the combo bottles. Save your solo Tren bottles for an Epi/Tren combo later on. Pick up something for prolactin control.

Only problem here is, I won't have enough to run for 8 weeks if I keep increasing the dose on the combo pills. Sure I can get more but , I live in the US so it's a bit difficult.

The epistane is definitely being saved for a later date though . Possibly an epistane/test down the road

 

[Jebrook]

Only problem here is, I won't have enough to run for 8 weeks if I keep increasing the dose on the combo pills. Sure I can get more but , I live in the US so it's a bit difficult.

The epistane is definitely being saved for a later date though . Possibly an epistane/test down the road

Personally, I'd keep the Sten at 6 weeks anyway. I would hate life on an 8 week Sten run for the last 3-4 weeks. That stuff is pretty rough.

 

[dredmentia]

Personally, I'd keep the Sten at 6 weeks anyway. I would hate life on an 8 week Sten run for the last 3-4 weeks. That stuff is pretty rough.

Jebrook what do you think here....loose more weight, or is it safe to run that stack now. The first picture was in the middle of my first cycle, the second one 2 months after PCT, the third one a few days ago at 205 pounds.

I am going to be bulking, and , for the last 7 months I've been in a serious deficit. First thing in going to do is take myself out of this deficet for a few weeks , see if I can make any mini gains on my own just eating clean at a slight surplus. I'm sure my body is starving and dying to gain some mass right now so I don't wanna jump right into the PH cycle .

I'm also thinking about loading creatine for a few weeks before the cycle too. I've been off creatine and any post workout carbs for 6 months now too, i used to follow up every workout with this post workout drink Aftershock (or dark matter but the new formula sucks) but stopped doing that because it was counter productive to me cutting. I've been doing just 50 grams of whey isolate after each workout

 

[coltonwalker]

Update: Start my cycle in 1month 6 days. Decided to change a couple things. For my OTC on cycle, i switched to ARM1CARE Pro - Olympus Labs. I found that it was more cost effective as it had TUDCA in it along with prolactin care/control. Next, I also changed my PCT OTC to Sup3r PCT - Olympus Labs because I found it also better than what I originally had planned. It has DAA 3.1g in it, AI inhibitor even though that is not needed for my cycle. Other than that, everything else is the same; Fish oil, multi throughout, a little extra vitamin C during PCT, and Nolva 20/20/10/10. I ask again though, any suggestions?

Thanks again mates!

 

[james117]

Know 2 guys who ran epistane for 4 weeks and ran nolva for pct and both got rebound gyno after dropping the nolva. One had it so bad he needed surgery. It stuck out through his shirt and looked like a alien was living inside. This is the reason I'm super hesitant about using PH part from epiandro and 1-Andro. I'd get aromasin and just use the dam stuff right at the end of pct. arimedex will also cause rebound effect similar to the nolva. Also using aromasin with nolva effects your pct for the worst I think. Not sure on that one. But I was reading somewhere about it. If so just start the AI last week or last few days of nolva.

 

[bighulksmash]

Know 2 guys who ran epistane for 4 weeks and ran nolva for pct and both got rebound gyno after dropping the nolva. One had it so bad he needed surgery. It stuck out through his shirt and looked like a alien was living inside. This is the reason I'm super hesitant about using PH part from epiandro and 1-Andro. I'd get aromasin and just use the dam stuff right at the end of pct. arimedex will also cause rebound effect similar to the nolva. Also using aromasin with nolva effects your pct for the worst I think. Not sure on that one. But I was reading somewhere about it. If so just start the AI last week or last few days of nolva.

Exemstane + Letrozole ?

 

[james117]

Exemestane would be the best way to go I'd imagine. Letro still gives a rebound effect. Plus letro just has harsh sides as it is.

 

[coltonwalker]

Any reason as to what causes this with the nolva and epi combination?

 

[bighulksmash]

Any reason as to what causes this with the nolva and epi combination?

Differencebetween an ai and a suicidal ai .

 

[bighulksmash]

I believe 1 kills e and 1 binds to it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[coltonwalker]

On cycle 1-4
Tren - 44 for 7 days/ 66 for 17 days/ 88 for last 6
Msten - 12 for 7 days/ 18 for 17/ 24 last 6
Epi - 20 for 7/ 30 for 17/ 40 last 6
2 Fish oil AM, 1 multi AM, 3 zma PM
Olympus Labs On Cycle (had tudca, test boost, estro blocker, prolactin control)

Post Cycle 5-8
Olympus Labs Sup3r PCT (has DAA for test boost, mild aromatase inhibitor, and prolactin care)
Test X 1 cap per day
Nolva 20/20/10/10
1000mg C PM and AM
2 Fish oil AM, 1 multi AM, 3 zma PM

This will not work?

 

[bighulksmash]

On cycle 1-4
Tren - 44 for 7 days/ 66 for 17 days/ 88 for last 6
Msten - 12 for 7 days/ 18 for 17/ 24 last 6
Epi - 20 for 7/ 30 for 17/ 40 last 6
2 Fish oil AM, 1 multi AM, 3 zma PM
Olympus Labs On Cycle (had tudca, test boost, estro blocker, prolactin control)

Post Cycle 5-8
Olympus Labs Sup3r PCT (has DAA for test boost, mild aromatase inhibitor, and prolactin care)
Test X 1 cap per day
Nolva 20/20/10/10
1000mg C PM and AM
2 Fish oil AM, 1 multi AM, 3 zma PM

This will not work?

If your goal is gains thats too many compounds . You'll flood your receptors and get 0. Imo you could run tren and epi . Save the msten for a bulk with dmz or a similar product.

 

[coltonwalker]

If your goal is gains thats too many compounds . You'll flood your receptors and get 0. Imo you could run tren and epi . Save the msten for a bulk with dmz or a similar product.

The compounds are all in 1 pill sadly. Its a "dry" bulker that I will be using at maintenance to shed a few pounds of fat with a few pounds of gains, nothing dramatic. My main concern was with the PCT portion and rebound. I haven't heard of epi and nolva causing rebound, specially if done right and tapered with a decent test booster. Am I wrong here? I will have aromasin on hand

 

[bighulksmash]

The compounds are all in 1 pill sadly. Its a "dry" bulker that I will be using at maintenance to shed a few pounds of fat with a few pounds of gains, nothing dramatic. My main concern was with the PCT portion and rebound. I haven't heard of epi and nolva causing rebound, specially if done right and tapered with a decent test booster. Am I wrong here? I will have aromasin on hand

If you play by the rules you will always win . Its getting complacent that always ruins it for me . I think youll be fine . Have legit ai and serm on hand . Always plan for the worst, expect the best . Your layout looks good just add in some garlic and cranberry extracts

 

[bighulksmash]

I had megatren a few years back . Msten and tren real kick azz stack.

 

[coltonwalker]

If you play by the rules you will always win . Its getting complacent that always ruins it for me . I think youll be fine . Have legit ai and serm on hand . Always plan for the worst, expect the best . Your layout looks good just add in some garlic and cranberry extracts

Thanks for the help Hulk. One last thing, do you think i should take the AI 3 weeks into Nolva for "better safe than sorry" reasons or stick to just having it on hand for signs?

 

[bighulksmash]

Thanks for the help Hulk. One last thing, do you think i should take the AI 3 weeks into Nolva for "better safe than sorry" reasons or stick to just having it on hand for signs?

I can only give u my own personal experiences as references. I used exemstane all the way through an 8 week trest halo run ran it like this eod . 12.5/12.5/25/25/25/25/12.5/12.5
I ran clomid for 8 weeks after that 50 mgs ed . No ai in pct for me .