Bombing your HDL on orals

[Punkrocker]

So it's well known that using oral anabolics is a death sentence to your HDL cholesterol(at least temporarily) even with "milder" compounds such as anavar. My question is, is there anything I can do to protect the destruction of my HDL when I add anavar to my cycle? Currently I'm on EQ and test, and so far so good, but I know once I add the anavar, the HDL will suffer. There must be some way to protect it. Anybody?

 

[Hardedge]

GW501516 helps, but some people are afraid to use it because of possible link to cancer (in rats, when megadosed). I've only good things to say about it.

other than that, you can make sure you get your omega-3 fatty acids. Red yeast rice exctract is useful but not all supplements will have the active ingredient, Monacolin K.

 

[Punkrocker]

Yeah I read about that GW stuff. I don't wanna mess with that. I'm already on a ton of fish oil. I'll look into red yeast rice

 

[YoungBodyBuil]

Antaeus labs talos v2 I've done bloods with and without it on the same cycle (LGD) made a huge improvement.

 

[Punkrocker]

Antaeus labs talos v2 I've done bloods with and without it on the same cycle (LGD) made a huge improvement.

Could you specify please? What the cycle was and your results ?

 

[YoungBodyBuil]

Could you specify please? What the cycle was and your results ?

I've done a few trials with and without certain ingredients. My one LGD cycle without heart support my Cholesterol was-
Pre Cycle-
Total- 132
HDL-70
LDL-62

On cycle-
Total Cholesterol- 144
HDL-23
LDL- 121

Post cycle( 2 months after cycle 1 month after PCT)
Total Cholesterol- 137
HDL-67
LDL- 70

WIth Antaeus Labs Talos V2

(LGD with both cycles, both 8 weeks both 2 weeks 8 mg 2 weeks 12 mg 4 weeks 16 mg)

Pre Cycle
Total Cholesterol- 146
HDL- 76
LDL- 70

Intra Cycle(with talos)
Total Cholesterol- 150
HDL- 62
LDL- 88
Post Cycle- (Continued talos into PCT)
Total Cholesterol- 141
HDL- 86
LDL-55

As you can see it mitigated some of the on cycle damage and actually made my numbers better post cycle than pre cycle, i also have genetically low TC but as you can see I am affected the same as everyone else, and i've done trials with other supplements (Ai sports life support, original Talos, Black yeast rice) and Talos V2 worked best for me, can dig up bloods to post if need be, i just keep logs of every cycle and my hormonal profile through out written down in microsoft X-cel

 

[Punkrocker]

I've done a few trials with and without certain ingredients. My one LGD cycle without heart support my Cholesterol was-
Pre Cycle-
Total- 132
HDL-70
LDL-62

On cycle-
Total Cholesterol- 144
HDL-23
LDL- 121

Post cycle( 2 months after cycle 1 month after PCT)
Total Cholesterol- 137
HDL-67
LDL- 70

WIth Antaeus Labs Talos V2

(LGD with both cycles, both 8 weeks both 2 weeks 8 mg 2 weeks 12 mg 4 weeks 16 mg)

Pre Cycle
Total Cholesterol- 146
HDL- 76
LDL- 70

Intra Cycle(with talos)
Total Cholesterol- 150
HDL- 62
LDL- 88
Post Cycle- (Continued talos into PCT)
Total Cholesterol- 141
HDL- 86
LDL-55

As you can see it mitigated some of the on cycle damage and actually made my numbers better post cycle than pre cycle, i also have genetically low TC but as you can see I am affected the same as everyone else, and i've done trials with other supplements (Ai sports life support, original Talos, Black yeast rice) and Talos V2 worked best for me, can dig up bloods to post if need be, i just keep logs of every cycle and my hormonal profile through out written down in microsoft X-cel

Wow that's absolutely fantastic! I gotta get some of this! I'm assuming LGD is a methylated hormone. Where is a good place to acquire this cycle support supplement?

 

[yates84]

GW501516 helps, but some people are afraid to use it because of possible link to cancer (in rats, when megadosed). I've only good things to say about it.

other than that, you can make sure you get your omega-3 fatty acids. Red yeast rice exctract is useful but not all supplements will have the active ingredient, Monacolin K.

Don't use gw with methylated orals, it can potentially cause liver damage.

 

[That_TRT_Guy]

Don't use gw with methylated orals, it can potentially cause liver damage.

care to elaborate,,, im iffy on GW still, but am always in for science,


btw pm incoming

 

[kboxer7]

care to elaborate,,, im iffy on GW still, but am always in for science,


btw pm incoming

Not to step on his toes but I'll answer since I came across this in passing. GW induces profibrogenic connective tissue growth factor, thus leading to increased liver fibrosis as your liver repairs itself from damage.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22538808

 

[BamBam0319]

Not to step on his toes but I'll answer since I came across this in passing. GW induces profibrogenic connective tissue growth factor, thus leading to increased liver fibrosis as your liver repairs itself from damage.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22538808

And with that, I will no longer be using GW. Lol

 

[yates84]

Not to step on his toes but I'll answer since I came across this in passing. GW induces profibrogenic connective tissue growth factor, thus leading to increased liver fibrosis as your liver repairs itself from damage.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22538808

Appreciate that! I never could have found that again lol

 

[That_TRT_Guy]

Appreciate that! I never could have found that again lol

for the same reason i think im going to start cataloging studies on my hardrive...i feel a sticky in the making

 

[Hardedge]

That's very interesting and informative. Thanks!

So much for GW. Another one bites the dust.

 

[dave39]

Healthy eating and cardio will help

 

[BamBam0319]

Healthy eating and cardio will help

What? That's preposterous!

 

[Punkrocker]

What? That's preposterous!

Lol yeah honestly, it's a good theory but I'm pretty sure all the avocados in the world aren't gonna stop the slaughtering of the hdl that orals will do

 

[yates84]

Lol yeah honestly, it's a good theory but I'm pretty sure all the avocados in the world aren't gonna stop the slaughtering of the hdl that orals will do

It will help but the main thing is to use orals sparingly and follow proper off cycle time to not only let levels recover, but stay at baseline for a good amount of time.

 

[That_TRT_Guy]

It will help but the main thing is to use orals sparingly and follow proper off cycle time to not only let levels recover, but stay at baseline for a good amount of time.

when regarding off time from orals what do you think is more important, hpta recovery or lipids/liver

being 'on' for life i wonder how much less time i need between runs compared to someone trying to resurrect his natty productions

 

[dave39]

So it's well known that using oral anabolics is a death sentence to your HDL cholesterol(at least temporarily) even with "milder" compounds such as anavar. My question is, is there anything I can do to protect the destruction of my HDL when I add anavar to my cycle? Currently I'm on EQ and test, and so far so good, but I know once I add the anavar, the HDL will suffer. There must be some way to protect it. Anybody?

What are your test and eq doses? How long have you been on cycle?
How's it going so far?

 

[yates84]

when regarding off time from orals what do you think is more important, hpta recovery or lipids/liver

being 'on' for life i wonder how much less time i need between runs compared to someone trying to resurrect his natty productions

Hpta can be dealt with by hormone replacement but there is no easy fix for lipids/liver. That's my opinion anyway. Just because you're on trt doesn't mean you can cycle orals any more frequently imo.

 

[Punkrocker]

What are your test and eq doses? How long have you been on cycle?
How's it going so far?

I'm on 400test and 400EQ. so far I'm eating more and looking more full and up a few pounds. I'm only 5 weeks in.

 

[That_TRT_Guy]

Hpta can be dealt with by hormone replacement but there is no easy fix for lipids/liver. That's my opinion anyway. Just because you're on trt doesn't mean you can cycle orals any more frequently imo.

thanks, thats what i figured, but i didnt want to have to think for myself right now... let alone google lol

 

[That_TRT_Guy]

I'm on 400test and 400EQ. so far I'm eating more and looking more full and up a few pounds. I'm only 5 weeks in.

how long are your going to run EQ

 

[Punkrocker]

how long are your going to run EQ

14 weeks

 

[BamBam0319]

I'm on 400test and 400EQ. so far I'm eating more and looking more full and up a few pounds. I'm only 5 weeks in.

Kinda low for an EQ dose, are you gonna be ramping up at all? My next cycle is EQ and I'm starting off at 600, and going to 900 halfway through

 

[That_TRT_Guy]

14 weeks

nice, enough time to let it work its magic.

when you add in anavar, i would suggest:

choline/inositol bitartrate
upping you fiber slightly
upping your omeg-3's (12g /60 kcals of chia seeds has 3.6g Omeg3's)
depending on your liver status adding in high dose niacin 1,200mg daily
Red rice yeast.

 

[Punkrocker]

Kinda low for an EQ dose, are you gonna be ramping up at all? My next cycle is EQ and I'm starting off at 600, and going to 900 halfway through

I was gonna up the EQ but unfortunately the more I use, the more I gotta buy. The anavar killed me financially. From everything I've read, 400eq should be enough to do something at 14 weeks, plus I'm also on 400test and will be adding pure pharmaceutical (expensive) anavar so I'm sure I should get decent gains

 

[That_TRT_Guy]

I was gonna up the EQ but unfortunately the more I use, the more I gotta buy. The anavar killed me financially. From everything I've read, 400eq should be enough to do something at 14 weeks, plus I'm also on 400test and will be adding pure pharmaceutical (expensive) anavar so I'm sure I should get decent gains

2.5mg pharma var?

 

[Punkrocker]

2.5mg pharma var?

No but I'm ordering those ones next for my wife. I got 50mg capsules that I get prescribed from my hrt doc

 

[BamBam0319]

No but I'm ordering those ones next for my wife. I got 50mg capsules that I get prescribed from my hrt doc

Damnnn you got the hookup

 

[That_TRT_Guy]

No but I'm ordering those ones next for my wife. I got 50mg capsules that I get prescribed from my hrt doc

how did you pull that...jelly



EDIT: ever run tbol by any chance?

 

[Punkrocker]

I know the right guys I guess. But $10 per 50mg capsule isn't exactly cheap. But at least I know it's the real deal

 

[dave39]

I know the right guys I guess. But $10 per 50mg capsule isn't exactly cheap. But at least I know it's the real deal

Ouch! For that price id rather just run something else

 

[Dma378]

Niacin. Full flushing. No flush doesn't have the same effect. I am up to 800mg a day. 400 PWO and 400 after dinner. Start low until you get accustomed to the flushing. I personally love it and am about to take a week off so I get it back a bit.

http://www.drdavidwilliams.com/niacin-benefits/

 

[Dma378]

Another bit of info

http://www.berkeleywellness.com/supplements/vitamins/article/niacin-and-cholesterol

 

[brofessorx]

I'm assuming LGD is a methylated hormone. Where is a good place to acquire this cycle support supplement?

No, it isn't a hormone.
It's a sarm. A non steroid compound with the ability to have significant interaction with the androgen receptor, and who knows what else.

 

[yates84]

No, it isn't a hormone.
It's a sarm. A non steroid compound with the ability to have significant interaction with the androgen receptor, and who knows what else.

And definitely not methylated

 

[brofessorx]

Hopefully your anavar is legit. I've never heard of legit prescription anavar coming in over 10mg dosages.

Usually 2.5 mg to 20mg each day is what it's dosed

 

[That_TRT_Guy]

Hopefully your anavar is legit. I've never heard of legit prescription anavar coming in over 10mg dosages.

Usually 2.5 mg to 20mg each day is what it's dosed

im assuming the clinic works alongside a fda approved compounding facility.

 

[dave39]

Niacin. Full flushing. No flush doesn't have the same effect. I am up to 800mg a day. 400 PWO and 400 after dinner. Start low until you get accustomed to the flushing. I personally love it and am about to take a week off so I get it back a bit.

http://www.drdavidwilliams.com/niacin-benefits/

I've got some of the full flush on the way. Never tried it but been curious.

 

[Dma378]

I've got some of the full flush on the way. Never tried it but been curious.

Very cool. I have to say that at first 100mg would give me a little flush. I would start there, 3x/day

Gradually upped to where I am now, which is still on the low end, 800

Its relatively cheap, but can start to get pricey if you were to really take 3000mg/day!!

Think I'll stick to around 1000-1200. A couple good flushes a day.

Pretty good site I get a lot of my vitamins and support supps from:

http://m.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-Niacin-100-mg-250-Tablets/1299

Price on things like Taurine and Hawthorne Berry are pretty good here too.

 

[UncleSarm]

Not to step on his toes but I'll answer since I came across this in passing. GW induces profibrogenic connective tissue growth factor, thus leading to increased liver fibrosis as your liver repairs itself from damage.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22538808

And with that, I will no longer be using GW. Lol

And with that, I will be joining BamBam0319.

 

[brofessorx]

im assuming the clinic works alongside a fda approved compounding facility.

I guess anything is possible.

Sounds like the guy that was saying his doc was prescribing him equipoise.

 

[Punkrocker]

I guess anything is possible.

Sounds like the guy that was saying his doc was prescribing him equipoise.

Yeah he gave me equipoise and anavar. For the first year he only did HRT for me but once he got to know me better he opened up and let me know what else the clinic carries, that is of course as long as I got the money. But whatever, at least I know Everything is legit.

 

[BamBam0319]

Yeah he gave me equipoise and anavar. For the first year he only did HRT for me but once he got to know me better he opened up and let me know what else the clinic carries, that is of course as long as I got the money. But whatever, at least I know Everything is legit.

Wow. The hookup indeed.

 

[Punkrocker]

Wow. The hookup indeed.

Hahaha yes I suppose so. I just wish he was more knowledgeable. When I asked him about HDL suppression on the anavar he was like "dude just take the hit. Once you come off your levels will bounce back. Cholesterol is very forgiving" ��gee thanks doc. Lol

 

[That_TRT_Guy]

Hahaha yes I suppose so. I just wish he was more knowledgeable. When I asked him about HDL suppression on the anavar he was like "dude just take the hit. Once you come off your levels will bounce back. Cholesterol is very forgiving" ��gee thanks doc. Lol

lol he's correct....but a little professionalism never hurts......cycle support?

 

[Punkrocker]

Cycle support is:
Fish oil 10g
Celery seed extract
Cissus
Vitamin d3
Vitamin b complex
Milk thistle
Vitamin e
Tudca

 

[Punkrocker]

lol he's correct....but a little professionalism never hurts......cycle support?

You wanna talk professionalism? When I first got on HRT with him I had high estradiol symptoms without knowing what they meant because I was a newbie. I was anxious, snappy, I had vertigo and just generally felt awful. I call him and tell him what was happening and he gets mad at me and tells me I need to see a shrink. After reading a bunch of info i went and got a hormone panel done and found out my estradiol was 101 which was causing my super anxiety. I contacted him and told him what was up and he was like "whoa. You were growing a vagina" lol. Now that I have educated myself, I ask, he supplies. But god forbid I have some side effects cause he won't do anything about it lol