FDA to begin investigating companies selling Ostarine

Placebo1985

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Why are they going after ostarine in particular?
 
VaughnTrue

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I'd assume because it's the low lying fruit in it being the most "famous" of SARMs for average consumers
 
Woody

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I hope they nail brick and mortar stores that sell ostarine to everyone that walks in.

Walked into a Total Nutrition once to look at what they had and the salesman recommended Ostarine to everyone walking in looking to add some muscle (even if they just started working out) because it's safe and not suppressive at all so a PCT isn't needed.

That's just one of the many shady things that Houston Heights Total Nutrition does.
 
smith_69

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this all started back when one company went after BSL for selling the sarm. that company other company is the one that brought on the law suit just a matter of time before the rest of the industry was going to get hit with this
 
pogue

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I'm curious to know whose original idea was it to come think "Hey, let's take this pharmaceutical unregulated, untested and patented drug and sell it as a dietary supplement, encapsulated and everything." I can understand it being sold as a research chemical that only the certain "elite" people in the know would get their hands on, but to mass market it and think there wouldn't be any consequences is such a strange idea to me. Unless I set my companies up in the Cayman Islands or something and tried other tricks to get my liability to practically zero.
 
VaughnTrue

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I'm curious to know whose original idea was it to come think "Hey, let's take this pharmaceutical unregulated, untested and patented drug and sell it as a dietary supplement, encapsulated and everything." I can understand it being sold as a research chemical that only the certain "elite" people in the know would get their hands on, but to mass market it and think there wouldn't be any consequences is such a strange idea to me. Unless I set my companies up in the Cayman Islands or something and tried other tricks to get my liability to practically zero.
"It wasn't on the banned list" will be the #1 reason quoted from reps/end users. I guarantee it.
 
pogue

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"It wasn't on the banned list" will be the #1 reason quoted from reps/end users. I guarantee it.
Lol. Lot's of things aren't on the banned list, but at least people USED to try and either stuff by claiming it was found in nature or loading it in a supplement with a bunch of proprietary ingredients where you couldn't tell what the main active ingredient was -- if they even put it on the label at all!

https://www.t-nation.com/supplements/dirty-tricks
 
VaughnTrue

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Lol. Lot's of things aren't on the banned list, but at least people USED to try and either stuff by claiming it was found in nature or loading it in a supplement with a bunch of proprietary ingredients where you couldn't tell what the main active ingredient was -- if they even put it on the label at all!

https://www.t-nation.com/supplements/dirty-tricks
I'd be the pot calling the kettle black if I didn't explain my position on this.


IFN sold prohormones back in the day. Prior to me being hired at IFN, the only prohormone offered was Bold200, which in theory was in fact a legal prohormone at the time(it wasn't banned, it had a DSHEA argument, and DASCA had not been enacted yet).

Due to me and another employee however, we moved onto producing superdrol, pheraplex, dymethazine, and protodrol. At the time, we honestly felt we were doing an acceptable thing due to the fact that the labels were clear/specific (as were the write ups), the compounds were not explicitly banned, and "everyone else is doing it!". After IFN got raided in 2009, I had the joy of meeting with our lawyers for the very first time, and I can say it was beyond a sobering experience. They showed us why our line of thinking was incorrect, how many rules/regulations we had actually broken, and just how serious the potential issue may be for us.

IFN got LUCKY however. Lucky in the sense that we were included in the 2009 raids, and didn't continue to produce those style of compounds afterwards. We got a proverbial "slap on the wrist" in that we paid a hefty fine, were placed on legal probation, and were subject to testing of every product & product run via the Banned Substance Control Group (http://www.bscg.org/) who reported each of the results of our tests directly to the FDA (and we never had a single issue with any test thanks to the great manufacturing at Hi-Tech Pharmaceuticals).



The difference now however is that it is 2016 and not 2009. 2009 SHOULD have shown supplement companies that if it isn't DSHEA compliant, it can't be sold. Now, if there is an argument for DSHEA compliance of a compound, I fully support it being fought for and sticking it to the government, however the issue right now is that NONE of the SARMs or anabolics (outside of dhea analogues) on the market right now have any argument for DSHEA except for 11-ketotestosterone as it is found naturally in the food supply and should fall under DSHEA compliance(unlike Trest or other various AAS still available today). Further, is is 2016 and NOT 2014. What I mean by this is that DASCA was put into law in 2014 which explicitly outlined that ANY hormonal compound was subject to a blanket ban/illegality unless it was an isomer/analogue/metabolite of estrogen, pregnenolone, cortico steroids, or DHEA. It doesn't matter if it's on the "list", it's already banned.



I have zero sympathy for these companies as the law is so clear cut, so obvious, so black & white, that anyone doing this stuff at this point is simply looking to make a quick buck (which I can appreciate...I'm all about the hustle, but not like this).
 
brofessorx

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smith_69

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Lol. Lot's of things aren't on the banned list, but at least people USED to try and either stuff by claiming it was found in nature or loading it in a supplement with a bunch of proprietary ingredients where you couldn't tell what the main active ingredient was -- if they even put it on the label at all!

https://www.t-nation.com/supplements/dirty-tricks
a portion from that thread- lmao

"they hype the product up so much that newbies and mentally deficient people think they've got their hands on chocolate flavored steroids. "

whoo hooo, i can taste the gains now-

but seriously if any of you remember hotstuff or were around to use, that really happened
 
pogue

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a portion from that thread- lmao

"they hype the product up so much that newbies and mentally deficient people think they've got their hands on chocolate flavored steroids. "

whoo hooo, i can taste the gains now-

but seriously if any of you remember hotstuff or were around to use, that really happened
Yep. I'm suspicious samples I used to get from certain companies as samples that I was asked to review (this was years ago) was spiked with something. It would be extremely easy to take a product, order some methyltest from China, spike the product's first batch with it, and have everyone raving around it. Then, as everyone jumped on the bandwagon to pick it up, they wouldn't get the same results, so the company reps would just blame it on the person's lack of dedication, their diet, training regiment, etc and no one would be the wiser.

Here's a much more psychoanalytical article written by Dante (I wonder whatever happened to him) on supplement scams and how people fall for them.

https://web.archive.org/web/20100612031033/http://mindandmuscle.net/articles/dante/thus_spoke
 

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Am I suppose to be shocked by this..?
 
brofessorx

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Yep. I'm suspicious samples I used to get from certain companies as samples that I was asked to review (this was years ago) was spiked with something. It would be extremely easy to take a product, order some methyltest from China, spike the product's first batch with it, and have everyone raving around it. Then, as everyone jumped on the bandwagon to pick it up, they wouldn't get the same results, so the company reps would just blame it on the person's lack of dedication, their diet, training regiment, etc and no one would be the wiser.

Here's a much more psychoanalytical article written by Dante (I wonder whatever happened to him) on supplement scams and how people fall for them.

https://web.archive.org/web/20100612031033/http://mindandmuscle.net/articles/dante/thus_spoke
There was a product called bola something I beta tested.
I think it contained actual bolasteron. Cause the final product users said was garbage
But for me, literally the strongest oral I've ever ran. And that was just 2mg each day.
 
yates84

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What's up with all the propaganda here lately? If your company is 100% legit then why worry about it? This is starting to turn into reefer madness...
 
pogue

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What's up with all the propaganda here lately? If your company is 100% legit then why worry about it? This is starting to turn into reefer madness...
If you're selling SARMs your company is far from "legit" in the eyes of the law. Just sayin...
 
yates84

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If you're selling SARMs your company is far from "legit" in the eyes of the law. Just sayin...
Uhhh....we don't. We sell only Dasca approved products but you don't see me making 10 different threads bragging about that lol
 
pogue

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Uhhh....we don't. We sell only Dasca approved products but you don't see me making 10 different threads bragging about that lol
Kind of telling that you jumped shipped from Olympus, which made it's name selling SARMs, don't you think?
 
yates84

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Kind of telling that you jumped shipped from Olympus, which made it's name selling SARMs, don't you think?
Olympus made their name selling ph/ds before the ban. Yes, they sold sarms but don't any more. Don't see how a company I repped for has anything to do with the company that I'm a sales manager for now.
 
pogue

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Olympus made their name selling ph/ds before the ban. Yes, they sold sarms but don't any more. Don't see how a company I repped for has anything to do with the company that I'm a sales manager for now.
Didn't say it did. But your comment was that this post was "propaganda". What did you mean by that?
 
yates84

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Didn't say it did. But your comment was that this post was "propaganda". What did you mean by that?
This and the 10 other threads created by the same op to discredit other companies while promoting his companies products is what I meant. It's getting real old.
 
pogue

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This and the 10 other threads created by the same op to discredit other companies while promoting his companies products is what I meant. It's getting real old.
Oh, I see. It's a company rep war. Well, I'll have to say that this article just came out in today's (technically yesterday's) news, and in all honestly, I was coming here to post it if Vaughn hadn't posted it first. I saw it on Twitter where Rick Collins had commented on it.
https://twitter.com/RickCollinsEsq/status/728958857402257408

Whether or not the idea that the FDA will crack down on people selling SARMs will drive customers into the hands of DHEA analogues (which both HiTech and Sparta sell, I noticed) is probably debatable.
 
yates84

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Oh, I see. It's a company rep war. Well, I'll have to say that this article just came out in today's (technically yesterday's) news, and in all honestly, I was coming here to post it if Vaughn hadn't posted it first. I saw it on Twitter where Rick Collins had commented on it.
https://twitter.com/RickCollinsEsq/status/728958857402257408

Whether or not the idea that the FDA will crack down on people selling SARMs will drive customers into the hands of DHEA analogues (which both HiTech and Sparta sell, I noticed) is probably debatable.
Not a rep war when both reps are on the same side.
 
pogue

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Not a rep war when both reps are on the same side.
The same side? Didn't you just accuse VaughnTrue of posting propaganda articles against SARMs to further try and sell his companies products?
 
yates84

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The same side? Didn't you just accuse VaughnTrue of posting propaganda articles against SARMs to further try and sell his companies products?
Yes, but I have nothing to do with selling of any sarms so...
 
yates84

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I think we've established that several times now. But you used to.
I don't think you, me, or Vaughn have any room to talk about past PED usage or companies we've repped for.
 
pogue

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I don't think you, me, or Vaughn have any room to talk about past PED usage or companies we've repped for.
But you're the one who brought up the whole thing about this post being propaganda and keep trying to shift the topic.

Tbh, you're sort of a confusing dude to have a conversion with. No offense.
 
yates84

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But you're the one who brought up the whole thing about this post being propaganda and keep trying to shift the topic.

Tbh, you're sort of a confusing dude to have a conversion with. No offense.
Just because you don't understand me doesn't make me confusing ;)
 
Driven2lift

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I'm 100% ok with this, about time.

Orbit and Lockout (retailers) jumped out of the SARM game shortly after the new rules came into place. The risk is not to be scoffed at and companies that kept producing it deserve a good slap.

It was never worth the suppression and it's better off the market.
I hope no one bothers to continue producing it on the "black market"
 
yates84

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I'm 100% ok with this, about time.

Orbit and Lockout (retailers) jumped out of the SARM game shortly after the new rules came into place. The risk is not to be scoffed at and companies that kept producing it deserve a good slap.

It was never worth the suppression and it's better off the market.
I hope no one bothers to continue producing it on the "black market"
I believe it will continue to be produced, definitely as an rc and probably in cap form as well. Same way ph/ds are still produced domestically.
 
Driven2lift

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I believe it will continue to be produced, definitely as an rc and probably in cap form as well. Same way ph/ds are still produced domestically.
Who would want to buy this when a PH/AAS are about the same risk?

People are crazy for a couple lean lbs.
 
pogue

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Who would want to buy this when a PH/AAS are about the same risk?

People are crazy for a couple lean lbs.
As they improve and more SARMs come on the market, we'll probably start seeing better results with AAS like capabilities. Also, the stuff we have now might start showing up in studies as having better effects than we realize and even act as ancillary compounds to run with AAS for a variety of reasons.

Example: http://www.ironmagazine.com/2016/rad-140-sarm-explained/

But, I do agree they will probably be in low demand, with maybe the exception of the GH secretagogues and GHRPs. MK677 shows great potential too.
 
brofessorx

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Who would want to buy this when a PH/AAS are about the same risk?

People are crazy for a couple lean lbs.
I'd rather use osta as a replacement for trt than testosterone.
But that's me.
 

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Most companies have stopped producing ostarine and other SARMS. Some of the really unknown companies still are but most have ceased production so this is coming a bit too late
 
VaughnTrue

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Propaganda?

I would absolutely like for companies who still sell SARMS to either stop or eventually get punished just like the prohormone companies did. It brings unnecessary government eyes and negative press releases and just brings us closer to not being able to buy anything besides protein powder, and grass extract.
 

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Iforce cost me 50k. I should have sued them. I had to deal with FDA bull**** through my mail order site because Iforce broke the law.
 
smith_69

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Iforce cost me 50k. I should have sued them. I had to deal with FDA bull**** through my mail order site because Iforce broke the law.
was this in 2010? if you dont want to answer, no problem i understand.

regardless that is awful
 
ericool007

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Iforce cost me 50k. I should have sued them. I had to deal with FDA bull**** through my mail order site because Iforce broke the law.
Thats crazy I dont understand why they want to go after the middle man,I remmember hearing something about them going after GNC for selling certain products which makes absolutely no sense.
 

1Fast400

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was this in 2010? if you dont want to answer, no problem i understand.

regardless that is awful
Yes. Made no sense why they were coming after a retailer compared to actually going after the manufacture. Iforce got hit with a 250k fine in total. People make it sound like they were crippled. I had stuff LISTED on a site that never actually sold and it cost me 50. Along with the joy of having 30 officers in a tiny building going through anything and everything I have.
 
mw1

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Iforce cost me 50k. I should have sued them. I had to deal with FDA bull**** through my mail order site because Iforce broke the law.
Didnt you license Havoc from RPN at the time?
Regardless its pretty crazy cause some companies were still selling those PHs 5 yrs later. Its like the fda busted a few people, made a statement and then turned a blind eye
 
smith_69

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Yes. Made no sense why they were coming after a retailer compared to actually going after the manufacture. Iforce got hit with a 250k fine in total. People make it sound like they were crippled. I had stuff LISTED on a site that never actually sold and it cost me 50. Along with the joy of having 30 officers in a tiny building going through anything and everything I have.
wow, I cant imagine getting that phone call- unbelievable
 

thatskindafun

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OstaShred from Hard Rock any good? Strongsupps has it.
 
VaughnTrue

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Yes. Made no sense why they were coming after a retailer compared to actually going after the manufacture. Iforce got hit with a 250k fine in total. People make it sound like they were crippled. I had stuff LISTED on a site that never actually sold and it cost me 50. Along with the joy of having 30 officers in a tiny building going through anything and everything I have.
I won't pretend to be privy to everything that was included in our punishment, but from what I understand we were fined far more than 250k in total.
 

1Fast400

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wow, I cant imagine getting that phone call- unbelievable
It wasn't a phone call. They did 6 months of survalence on one of my buildings and brought 30 people down with weapons like it was a Colombian drug bust.
 

1Fast400

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I won't pretend to be privy to everything that was included in our punishment, but from what I understand we were fined far more than 250k in total.
No. Spent more, yes, actual fine, no.
 
VaughnTrue

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It wasn't a phone call. They did 6 months of survalence on one of my buildings and brought 30 people down with weapons like it was a Colombian drug bust.
They did the same thing to us at our warehouse. Guns, dozens of agents, the works.
 

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