Clen+t3 as natural?

[Eu.Era]

Looking to get some clen and was wondering if i could add in some t3 at no more than 25mg as a natural. Obviously read all over that t3 melts muscle mass but just thought maybe at only 25mg along with clen it would be fine. Any thoughts?

 

[Audioph1x]

What? How is clen natural?

 

[Quads_of_Stee]

clen is not natural and taking it means you will not be natty

 

[Eu.Era]

Wut i thought clen wasn't a steroid?

 

[BamBam0319]

Clen isn't actually a steroid, but I wouldn't consider it "natural" either.

 

[Eu.Era]

Well ok i will rephrase, can i take t3 at 25mg with clen without any aas and not be worried about muscle loss?

 

[Quads_of_Stee]

Well ok i will rephrase, can i take t3 at 25mg with clen without any aas and not be worried about muscle loss?

yes, to a degree. The clen has anti-catabolic properties that will favor the protection of muscle tissue

 

[BamBam0319]

Well ok i will rephrase, can i take t3 at 25mg with clen without any aas and not be worried about muscle loss?

yes, to a degree. The clen has anti-catabolic properties that will favor the protection of muscle tissue

Yup. That T3 is still going to make your muscles flat as hell though so you're going to feel smaller and weaker. Provided it's legit.

 

[Eu.Era]

I dont mind being flatter for a while if bounce back when i come off t3. is 25mg the highest you would go and is it even worth using at only 25mg

 

[Alan1]

I dont mind being flatter for a while if bounce back when i come off t3. is 25mg the highest you would go and is it even worth using at only 25mg

Consider my interest piqued if you do end up dosing T3 at 25mg.

 

[Audioph1x]

Think you mean mcg

 

[Eu.Era]

I dont mind being flatter for a while if bounce back when i come off t3. is 25mcg the highest you would go and is it even worth using at only 25mcg

 

[uprightrows]

Seeing as how you are no longer natural, I would highly recommend using an anabolic with any dose of T3. And yes even with only 25mcg you will lose muscle mass as you are losing fat, you will just lose less muscle (and fat) than if you were on 75mcg. I used T3 for cut at an average of 75mcg, and needed to use low dose test and low dose tren ace just to hold on to all of my muscle mass.

ANY dose of T3 will burn both fat and muscle, unless you are on anabolics/anti-catabolics , and as was previsouly stated you will look flat as a pan cake and good luck with glycogen retention while on. But it does work incredibly well for burning fat or losing weight

EDIT: Forgot to mention, 25mcg is almost a replacement dose for some people, so it might not do anything for you if you already have a very fast metabolism. What is your temperature (to the tenth or hundredth of a degree) when you first wake up?

 

[Eu.Era]

I have just ordered a thermo so will get back to you on that when it arrives, thanks for your reply. I read there was a lot of bro science about t3 and that if you just increase your protein intake you should be fine.

 

[uprightrows]

No worries, morning temperature is an easy (and surprisingly accurate) way to assess base level thyroid function and metabolism, if you're not going to use T3 (probably a good choice btw) it's irrelevant.

 

[Eu.Era]

I ordered a basic electronic thermometor i hope thats ok, i read to do it in the morning before getting out of bed correct? Until that arrives i had a look at my blood tests from a few months ago and my TSH was 1.40 (no other thyroid related test was taken).


The current plan is to take clen daily for 6 weeks ramping up dose to what i feel comfortable with probably around 80mcg. 2mg ketotifen every night from the 2nd week onwards (maybe just start right away?) and 50mcg t3 ramped up and down for the full 6 weeks 2 days on 2 days off. I read this 2 on 2 off was good because you could run it for longer that way and t3 peaks on the 3rd day then drops and its a kind of wave effect. I also read t3's half life was 10 hours so i was thinking of splitting the dose and taking it with protein 25mcg in the morning with 2 scoops of whey and 25mcg 12 hours later with my largest meal of the day.I've read quite a few comments of people taking up to 75mcg with no aas and not losing strength in the gym, diet was on point.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Consider my interest piqued if you do end up dosing T3 at 25mg.

Thank you. I wonder how many dead members there are?

 

[uprightrows]

Yeah, that should be fine, take it as soon as you wake up to get your basal temp. It's a cheap way of estimating T3 levels, of course if you can get bloods that is better but the temperature method is very convenient and decently accurate. I'm no expert on clen (only used it once) but you might want to stick with just that, how much weight/ bf% are you trying to lose and how much do you weigh now?

I would still strongly advise you to use at least low dose AAS if you are going to add T3, or at the very least use ostarine. Might as well since you're not a natty anymore, but it's your body. Also I don't know what you are reading, you're correct that you get peak levels around 3-5 days, but the half life of T3 is 60 hours, also it is best to administer it on an empty stomach. I would do more research before you start T3. As for not losing muscle/strength at 75mcg, they were probably using under-dosed RC stuff. I use cytomel and I was feeling it at 75 on low dose test.

 

[Eu.Era]

im currently 192 around 15% i have visible abs just. 6ft tall. i was reading up and thinking of going with anavar 50mg daily for 6 weeks followed by 3 weeks of nolva 40 20 20 week 1 2 3.

 

[BlockBuilder]

No worries, morning temperature is an easy (and surprisingly accurate) way to assess base level thyroid function and metabolism, if you're not going to use T3 (probably a good choice btw) it's irrelevant.

Can you tell me how to use temp to assess metabolism and thyroid function?

 

[uprightrows]

Yeah, no problem. Calculate your basal temp by taking your temperature as soon as you wake up with out doing any physical activity, preferably without walking or even getting out of bed. Do this for 3-5 days, taking your temp at exactly the same time each morning if you can and write down your temps, take an average of these numbers. It should be above 36.6 (97.8), if it is on that number or slightly lower you don't necessarily have hypothyroidism, but you have a pretty sluggish metabolism, or you might be iodine deficient. If it is above 37 (98.6), you have a very fast metabolism and naturally high T4/T3 levels. If it is =/>.2 above this, you have a blazing fast metabolism, or you have clinical hyperthyroidism.... or you're on exogenous T3.

It is also a very useful tool to titrate your T3 dosage, as you will now know your base line basal temperature and you can see how changing your T3 dose affects it. You can also take a day time temp, when you're not eating or doing physical activity at the same time each day and use this in addition to the basal reading. One thing worth noting, this method gets a little weird and unreliable if you are taking any progestins (tren or nandrolone) or if you are a female who is menstruating or on certain types of birth control, these all do odd things to your adrenal functions, body temp and metabolism.

I used to have a formula that roughly converted body temp to actual blood T3 levels once you plugged in a few other variables, but I think it is buried in a college notebook somewhere, I'll see if I can dig it up

 

[criticalbench]

You would be far better with Dnp as a natural. 25mcg of t3 chews through muscle for me even on AAS. I always have to increase calories when on.

T3 is highly overrated as well though, you are not missing much.

Personally, I prefer ephedrine over clen. The only time I like clen is when injected and paired with injectable yohimbine. 40mcg of clen and 5.4mg yohimbine injected is out of this world.

Otherwise, ephedrine is better imo.

 

[Eu.Era]

Ephedrine makes me really depressed and thats basically the only effect i get from it otherwise it may aswell be placebo. i always heard horror stories from dnp and people say take if you want to die or are retarded.

 

[Eu.Era]

Really interesting read here about the whole clen/t3/keto/var thing:
steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroids-bodybuilding-articles/5036-t3-faq-everything-you-need-know-about-t3-bigandy69.html

 

[The_Old_Guy]

You would be far better with Dnp as a natural. 25mcg of t3 chews through muscle for me even on AAS. I always have to increase calories when on.

T3 is highly overrated as well though, you are not missing much.

Personally, I prefer ephedrine over clen. The only time I like clen is when injected and paired with injectable yohimbine. 40mcg of clen and 5.4mg yohimbine injected is out of this world.

Otherwise, ephedrine is better imo.

I too was not as impressed with oral Clen, compared to what you read in forums. Now, it was my first run and I played it super safe, dosing every other day for 14 days (which is only 7 total), then taking 14 days off, Repeat - for 8 weeks. 20-80mcg and even at 80 I didn't really "feel" it (2 different well known suppliers, so don't think any were bunk).

I may give it one more try a little more aggressively, 2 on/1 off for 14 - the protocols are all over the place as far as trying to find an optimal one, and that's even before getting into the Ketotifen stuff.

But yeah, I think I may be sticking with Ephedrine - plus there's no down-regulation according to the literature - and no heart tissue worries.

 

[Eu.Era]

It seems like using ketotifen with it is the way to go, i always read people respond differently and some need 120-160 maybe your that guy though haha. Would it still be doing its job even though you arent getting the classic sides or is it that a sign that its not doing chit for you?

 

[BlockBuilder]

Yeah, no problem. Calculate your basal temp by taking your temperature as soon as you wake up with out doing any physical activity, preferably without walking or even getting out of bed. Do this for 3-5 days, taking your temp at exactly the same time each morning if you can and write down your temps, take an average of these numbers. It should be above 36.6 (97.8), if it is on that number or slightly lower you don't necessarily have hypothyroidism, but you have a pretty sluggish metabolism, or you might be iodine deficient. If it is above 37 (98.6), you have a very fast metabolism and naturally high T4/T3 levels. If it is =/>.2 above this, you have a blazing fast metabolism, or you have clinical hyperthyroidism.... or you're on exogenous T3.

It is also a very useful tool to titrate your T3 dosage, as you will now know your base line basal temperature and you can see how changing your T3 dose affects it. You can also take a day time temp, when you're not eating or doing physical activity at the same time each day and use this in addition to the basal reading. One thing worth noting, this method gets a little weird and unreliable if you are taking any progestins (tren or nandrolone) or if you are a female who is menstruating or on certain types of birth control, these all do odd things to your adrenal functions, body temp and metabolism.

I used to have a formula that roughly converted body temp to actual blood T3 levels once you plugged in a few other variables, but I think it is buried in a college notebook somewhere, I'll see if I can dig it up

Whoa dude that's insane! I've never heard of anything like this. Really cool

 

[uprightrows]

You would be far better with Dnp as a natural. 25mcg of t3 chews through muscle for me even on AAS. I always have to increase calories when on.

T3 is highly overrated as well though, you are not missing much.

Personally, I prefer ephedrine over clen. The only time I like clen is when injected and paired with injectable yohimbine. 40mcg of clen and 5.4mg yohimbine injected is out of this world.

Otherwise, ephedrine is better imo.

Ehhh... don't know if I'd call T3 overrated, but it's usually more trouble than it's worth. Also wtf, you inject clen? and with yohimbe? I've never heard of this, intriguing, but I don't really take either of those compounds anyway, but still interesting, I can't decide if it sounds great or like the worst idea ever. And yeah ephedrine is great, and if it makes you depressed OP thats unfortunate... but adderall is even better, and it won't make you depressed, for sure (if it does you have serious neurological problems)

 

[uprightrows]

Really interesting read here about the whole clen/t3/keto/var thing:
steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroids-bodybuilding-articles/5036-t3-faq-everything-you-need-know-about-t3-bigandy69.html

wait what... sorry I stopped reading after steroidology.com

 

[Eu.Era]

So im thinking about adding anavar in at 75mg every day for the full 6 weeks to counteract muscle loss from the t3. t3 increases protein turnover apparantly and anavar will slow that back down. Pct would be nova for 4 weeks 40/40/20/20. Anavar is supposed to a very weak steroid but it will still shut me down pretty good do i need to be adding in a test base? The thing is i don't want to turn this into a build muscle thing i'm just interested in getting rid of this last bit of fat at the moment and the anavar is only there to preserve the mass i already have.

So as far as i know my options are:

t3 without anavar keeping dosages no higher than 50mcg
t3+anavar
anavar + test
and this could be way off but anavar + aromasin. (thinking behind this is it will help keep at least some natural test going) (not taking intended as an AI as i know that is not a problem with anavar).

Can anyone a lot more knowlegable give me some advice on this im looking to order everything i need soon.

 

[uprightrows]

So im thinking about adding anavar in at 75mg every day for the full 6 weeks to counteract muscle loss from the t3. t3 increases protein turnover apparantly and anavar will slow that back down. Pct would be nova for 4 weeks 40/40/20/20. Anavar is supposed to a very weak steroid but it will still shut me down pretty good do i need to be adding in a test base? The thing is i don't want to turn this into a build muscle thing i'm just interested in getting rid of this last bit of fat at the moment and the anavar is only there to preserve the mass i already have.

So as far as i know my options are:

t3 without anavar keeping dosages no higher than 50mcg
t3+anavar
anavar + test
and this could be way off but anavar + aromasin. (thinking behind this is it will help keep at least some natural test going) (not taking intended as an AI as i know that is not a problem with anavar).

Can anyone a lot more knowlegable give me some advice on this im looking to order everything i need soon.

T3 alone is probably the worst of those options. T3+anavar you will most likely feel like s*** constantly, but it will cut you up, especially if you are running 75mg anavar and 75mcg T3. Anavar and test is the most logical thing you've proposed and probably your best option if you diet right, which you probably have dialed in if you're a successful natty up to this point . Anavar and aromasin is just dumb, but order aromasin anyway since you should be going with var and test. If you really want to, you can add T3 to the var and test, but it probably unnecessary and needlessly complicated, how much weight/bf% do want to lose, and in what time frame?

 

[Eu.Era]

Thanks for replying so in depth. Sounds like anavar only or anavar with test is the way to go, my only issue with test is i had quite sever gyno since i was 11 and had it removed 2 years ago with surgery. Obviously i am terrified of this coming back and avavar only would make that almost if not entirely impossible.

 

[uprightrows]

Thanks for replying so in depth. Sounds like anavar only or anavar with test is the way to go, my only issue with test is i had quite sever gyno since i was 11 and had it removed 2 years ago with surgery. Obviously i am terrified of this coming back and avavar only would make that almost if not entirely impossible.

I wouldn't assume anavar only is "safe", anytime you mess with your hormones you are rolling the dice and just because it doesn't aromatize you don't really know what kind of effects it will have on your body, especially if you have pre-existing gyno. Not trying to freak you out or anything, just make sure you are prepared either way, it seems like you had a pct lined up so that is good. I would still add test if it were me, and just make sure you control estrogen from the beginning with your ai. Also, for like the 3rd time, how much weight or bf% are you trying to lose?

 

[Eu.Era]

Ugh starting to feel its not even worth the risk, if i see signs of gyno could i just add in nolva until it subsides? Sorry bro kept missing that because im stressing about this other stuff, i did post my weight on the previous page though not sure if i was replying to you. im currently 192 not sure exactly about body fat but i have visible abs just about when i flex. I'm 6ft tall and 26 yo. ive come down from 228 pounds to really proud of myself after a few failed attempts at cutting finally managed to stick with it and get some discipline.

 

[uprightrows]

Ok.... how much weight or bf% are you trying to lose

 

[Eu.Era]

About 10 pounds mate

 

[justjake]

i wouldnt take T3 only or even with clen. definitely rec running it with a test cycle at least. could also just do clen? ive done that and liked it

 

[Eu.Era]

I think its best to just give clen alone a try first, getting gyno back scares the fk out of me nothing is worth that coming back.

 

[uprightrows]

I think that is a good choice, if you aren't ready to deal with the potential sides of a hormonal cycle or just don't think the risk is worth it, stick with clen solo. Stay away from T3, eat right and should reach your goals. I'm personally not a huge fan of clen, but I think that (or taking nothing, staying totally natty and just being patient with your diet) is probably your best option.

 

[Eu.Era]

Thanks for all the help guys and staying patient with me! I could have got talbets that where 4mg albuterol and 4mg yohimbine which would have probably been the best choice for me but he day i went to order they went out of stock. Currently im 50/50 on weather to give clen a go or just keep doing what ive been doing because i have had good sucess and dont really need to fix what isnt broken.

 

[EMPIREMIND]

Ehhh... don't know if I'd call T3 overrated, but it's usually more trouble than it's worth. Also wtf, you inject clen? and with yohimbe? I've never heard of this, intriguing, but I don't really take either of those compounds anyway, but still interesting, I can't decide if it sounds great or like the worst idea ever. And yeah ephedrine is great, and if it makes you depressed OP thats unfortunate... but adderall is even better, and it won't make you depressed, for sure (if it does you have serious neurological problems)

Inj clen and yohimbine is called helios. Dan duchane brought to light

 

[BamBam0319]

If you had your gyno removed surgically, there's a good chance you can't get gyno again. Did they remove from both nipples or just the one?

 

[EMPIREMIND]

Thanks for all the help guys and staying patient with me! I could have got talbets that where 4mg albuterol and 4mg yohimbine which would have probably been the best choice for me but he day i went to order they went out of stock. Currently im 50/50 on weather to give clen a go or just keep doing what ive been doing because i have had good sucess and dont really need to fix what isnt broken.

If your 50:50 stay doing what your doing until you plateau. Then reevaluate it bro.

 

[Eu.Era]

If you had your gyno removed surgically, there's a good chance you can't get gyno again. Did they remove from both nipples or just the one?

Both removed but they leave like 5 percent behind to prevent cratering of the nipple and if there is any tissue there it has a chance to regrow so i'm told.

If your 50:50 stay doing what your doing until you plateau. Then reevaluate it bro.

Yeah i think thats what im guna do! thanks.

 

[uprightrows]

they leave like 5 percent behind .

Don't tell rich piana, you might get slapped son!


No but seriously that is a brilliant idea, if your diet and training regime is working don't change it, let it ride and get the maximum benefit you can

 

[Eu.Era]

This mornings oral temp was 35.7c

 

[uprightrows]

average it over 5 days

 

[Eu.Era]

Ok sounds good, so i could take t3 without having to worry TOO much about muscle loss, as long as kept my temp in an optimal range by adjusting t3 dose?

 

[Eu.Era]

So my average morning temp is 35.5 measured with an electric thermometor under tongue.

 

[Eu.Era]

Ive been reading up on this whole t3 temp thing it seems pretty pointless imo people arent getting temp changes on 100mcg t3 and there is no way that dose isn't having an effect on the body.