Why is tren so bad or get a bad rep?

shakenblake

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So I was looking at low dosing tren ace to assess tolerance and combine it with test and maybe eq and kick if with tbol. I play football so no bodybuilding and I have been told the long term effects just outweigh the benefits and the results can be achieved through a combo of something like eq and masteron or something... Can anyone offer more insight?
 
shakenblake

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I'm looking to add mass and drop by body fat percentage... Not loose fat mass just keep it the same so lean gains make it a lower body fat
 
SonnyAz

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The side effects of it can be hellish. Some of it seems exaggerated to me. It could be real. But personal experience from when I did give it a run, I'm a light sleeper and it got lighter on cycle. BP shot up a lot. Outside of that nothing else really happen, I was on edge a bit and my hands got shaky. Tried para (tren hex) once that actually made me a very angry person. Far from my normal calm good to go self.
But it's user dependent my cousin loves the stuff. He won't use anything without tren stacked in. His bp stays fine no issues except his sleep and his hair falls out, haha.
I never got the cough from e or hex but I did on ace. A tall cup of ice water cleared it up for my cousin and myself.
 
shakenblake

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The side effects of it can be hellish. Some of it seems exaggerated to me. It could be real. But personal experience from when I did give it a run, I'm a light sleeper and it got lighter on cycle. BP shot up a lot. Outside of that nothing else really happen, I was on edge a bit and my hands got shaky. Tried para (tren hex) once that actually made me a very angry person. Far from my normal calm good to go self.
But it's user dependent my cousin loves the stuff. He won't use anything without tren stacked in. His bp stays fine no issues except his sleep and his hair falls out, haha.
I never got the cough from e or hex but I did on ace. A tall cup of ice water cleared it up for my cousin and myself.
So if you are prone to hair loss you'll probably loose hair? What about the long term effects on heart health?
 

jcam222

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In the past I have run virtually every main stream AAS. I have never loved anything as much as Tren A. If you do not go crazy with dosing and maintain a modest Test base it is unbeatable.
The night sweat, lack of sleep etc to me is grossly overstated. Not that it does not happen but it simply isn't that bad. The acetate esther is the perfect choice for your first try at it as the half life is short and if you dont tolerate well you can just quit. I also recommend pinning the acetate daily to maintain a nice level balance, some go EOD , that actually gave me more issue with higher peaks.

Also regarding stacking something with EQ, nothing ever caused me more anxiety and sleep issues than EQ.
 

carbs

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I'm on now for first time and I'm up to 150 eod (prob underdosed) but I'm not having any bad sides had a bit of high bp 135/80 and some sweats and oily skin and a bit of acne but that's about it. I got the cough once I think it was from pushing the oil too quickly while pinning.
 

jcam222

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I dosed as high as 100 a day but honestly I have seen great results with 37.5 per day. Sides at that level are minimal and it does the trick. For the OP I would start there an see what happens. I am a huge proponent of daily as opposed to EoD for Tren but I know most do well on EOD.
 
shakenblake

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In the past I have run virtually every main stream AAS. I have never loved anything as much as Tren A. If you do not go crazy with dosing and maintain a modest Test base it is unbeatable.
The night sweat, lack of sleep etc to me is grossly overstated. Not that it does not happen but it simply isn't that bad. The acetate esther is the perfect choice for your first try at it as the half life is short and if you dont tolerate well you can just quit. I also recommend pinning the acetate daily to maintain a nice level balance, some go EOD , that actually gave me more issue with higher peaks.

Also regarding stacking something with EQ, nothing ever caused me more anxiety and sleep issues than EQ.
Did you experience hair problems at all?
 
shakenblake

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Did any of you experience hair problems at all?
 

carbs

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I get crazy hair growth on my chest and face where normally I don't have any at all lol no loss to report
 

jcam222

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When on Tren I can remember literally feeling its impact on the scalp receptors. If you are at all pre disposed then it will have an impact.
 
SonnyAz

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shakenblake any AAS can enlarge the heart so it's a risk you take regardless. The only product I won't touch from countless reports of heart necrosis is Clen. But I see tons of people using it no problem but it's a fear I read into my brain.
But outside of the bp do bloods keep an eye on your cholesterol I know it takes me about 4.5 months after 8-10 cycle for my cholesterol to recover my bp goes back to normal about a month later. My cousin is back to normal a few weeks after he uses. We never cycle together so one of us can keep an eye on the other.
I'm in "dad body" right now though. Haha. So I've been out of touch of anything outside of trt test cyp shots.
 
SonnyAz

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Also I haven't experienced any hair loss problems. Although my facial hair grows abnormally fast when I was on tren, but like I said my cousins hair fell out but he can pull off a bald head my nugget is lumpy.
 
BamBam0319

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No hair loss for me either. If anything I got hairier. Also loved tren. Minimal side effects, all fun.
 
TNlifting

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Just curious, do you guys prefer higher test and lower tren or higher tren and lower test? I've read so much conflicting information about that.
 

carbs

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Lower test 250-350 and higher tren let the more powerful hormone shine. That's what I'm doing now working very well
 
TNlifting

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Lower test 250-350 and higher tren let the more powerful hormone shine. That's what I'm doing now working very well
Nice, how're the tren sides? Overstated like everyone in here is saying?
 
BamBam0319

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Just curious, do you guys prefer higher test and lower tren or higher tren and lower test? I've read so much conflicting information about that.
I would keep the test only at TRT levels or slightly higher, just to replace what you're suppressing. I ran as low as 100mg test/week with 210mg tren/week up to 300 test and 700 tren. Keeps the side effects low and the gains high.
 

carbs

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Nice, how're the tren sides? Overstated like everyone in here is saying?
Honestly I was expecting some serious sides and I was mentally prepared to deal with them but I haven't experienced much. The absolute worst thing is either the oily acne skin/ sweats or the crazy aggression. I was worried about anxiety and stuff like that but I have (knock on wood) not seen anything like it. Also I had a very high hemocrit level which was influencing my bp. After I gave some blood I was absolutely fine bp wise but that could have also been from the 8 weeks prior on high test.
 

Placebo1985

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Some people get bad mental sides. Anger, depression, anxiety, and paranoid thoughts because of how tren messes with serotonin.
 

carbs

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Caber is a dopamine agonist I've noticed a nice calming or slightly stoned feeling occasionally while using it for prolactin control. So it might work to counter the mental effects but I'm not sure.
 
shakenblake

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Yeah I mean I'm not sure if I'm prone to baldness, I know hair is thinning as time goes on since a few people in my family are bald... Just don't wanna lose all my hair at 25 lol
 
SonnyAz

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Haha yea bald at 25 would suck. I enjoy having hair myself.
 
shakenblake

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That's why i am wondering if there would be an alternative or something too... But I wanna run tren so bad because of the ability to gain crazy size and vascularity
 
Jiigzz

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Run nizoral shampoo or other anti DHT shampoo if you're concernes
 

jcam222

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On the hair thing if you are going to play the game, tren or otherwise, it will be an issue sooner or later if you are predisposed. It is a simple fact. As others said use a topical DHT blocker to help minimize the issues.
 
shakenblake

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Would caber counter the effects tren had on cardio?
 
BamBam0319

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Nah not that I've noticed. I added some gw I had leftover and that helped my endurance a noticeable amount.
GW helped me too; caber didn't.
 

jcam222

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I used to use caber to counter potential prolactin issues while using tren. I decided there was to much information linking caber to heart valve issues to use it further.
 
rtmilburn

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I used to use caber to counter potential prolactin issues while using tren. I decided there was to much information linking caber to heart valve issues to use it further.
Parmi is better anyways from what I hear and has less issues in that regard
 
shakenblake

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So prami can take care of prolactin issues the same or better than caber?
 
BamBam0319

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TNlifting

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I thought caber was king of prolactin control? Or is it more of a personal preference thing?
 

jcam222

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I thought caber was king of prolactin control? Or is it more of a personal preference thing?
It has always been the go to for sure. I personally just feel there is too much data suggesting a plethora of heart issues including valve problems. Some of the studies may dismiss lower dose but others seem to indicate that the effect can be cumulative as opposed to just with high dose. Most of the stuff we do is all about assessing your personal risk / reward assessment.
 
TNlifting

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It has always been the go to for sure. I personally just feel there is too much data suggesting a plethora of heart issues including valve problems. Some of the studies may dismiss lower dose but others seem to indicate that the effect can be cumulative as opposed to just with high dose. Most of the stuff we do is all about assessing your personal risk / reward assessment.
Interesting. Could these issues not also be present with prami though? Both prami and caber are dopamine agonists. In the medical field, caber is often preferred because it usually works better and has less side effects. Not trying to argue by any means, just trying to learn. It's possible the heart issues you mentioned could very well be unique to caber.
 

jcam222

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Interesting. Could these issues not also be present with prami though? Both prami and caber are dopamine agonists. In the medical field, caber is often preferred because it usually works better and has less side effects. Not trying to argue by any means, just trying to learn. It's possible the heart issues you mentioned could very well be unique to caber.
Great question. I quickly surfed and its hard to find any real conclusive answer. The quick read I got on it is that the non ergot based agonists were much safer than the ergot derived compounds. Caber is derived from ergot.
 

criticalbench

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Personally I have no idea what people make the big deal of tren is.. Sure it has side effects, but what doesn't?

These prohormones imo have more sides..
 

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Tren A is my favorite, but i wouldnt run longer than 8 weeks peak.. real hard on the liver and organs.. blood pressure did rise some but acceptable. Other than that no mayor side. On my case hair would fall out alot on cycle.. i been off for 6months now and hair dont fall out anymore.. odd. Also caber made me feel like ****tt.. nausea, tired.. ect. So i would take real small doses if i needed it.. or u can always replace with sns prlactin on a higher dose if caber doesnt work for u. Low test, higher tren. Ex.. 200 test weekly 350ish 400 tren weekly
 
VaughnTrue

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Tren A is my favorite, but i wouldnt run longer than 8 weeks peak.. real hard on the liver and organs.. blood pressure did rise some but acceptable. Other than that no mayor side. On my case hair would fall out alot on cycle.. i been off for 6months now and hair dont fall out anymore.. odd. Also caber made me feel like ****tt.. nausea, tired.. ect. So i would take real small doses if i needed it.. or u can always replace with sns prlactin on a higher dose if caber doesnt work for u. Low test, higher tren. Ex.. 200 test weekly 350ish 400 tren weekly

I haven't heard that tren impacts liver values much at all...it's not 17a methylated, so if it is liver toxic, what MOA are you suggesting causes this increase?
 
rtmilburn

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I haven't heard that tren impacts liver values much at all...it's not 17a methylated, so if it is liver toxic, what MOA are you suggesting causes this increase?
I have heard that it as well. For things to be liver toxic doesnt necessarily mean that they are methylated. All it has to be is resistant to ezymatic brake down in the liver.(there are other ways as well but this is the only relevant reason for this discussion).

The reason methylation is pretty much always associated with liver toxicity, is it does that very very well. Although methylation isnt the only way to resist brake down in the liver.

Trens stucture its self is what would cause liver damage as it is resisant to ezymatic reactions. Now is it very liver toxic? No, but doesnt the mean its not toxic? No.
 
SonnyAz

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Tren A is my favorite, but i wouldnt run longer than 8 weeks peak.. real hard on the liver and organs.. blood pressure did rise some but acceptable. Other than that no mayor side. On my case hair would fall out alot on cycle.. i been off for 6months now and hair dont fall out anymore.. odd. Also caber made me feel like ****tt.. nausea, tired.. ect. So i would take real small doses if i needed it.. or u can always replace with sns prlactin on a higher dose if caber doesnt work for u. Low test, higher tren. Ex.. 200 test weekly 350ish 400 tren weekly
See I've heard it's bad on the kidneys but my cousin and myself never experienced it. We also took into consideration we were warmer than normal and sweated a bit more than normal so we forcefully increased water intake on ourselves. I could just be lucky but it just moved my cholesterol levels in a bad way hdl and ldl. My cousin on the other hand never did bloodwork and still doesn't he's 3/4 retarded to me for not but it's his choice he feels fine so he says he finds no need too... I think a lot of the sides are due to people not properly preparing for what they are about to place into their system and then they read the sides and mental force them on themself.
 

criticalbench

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I haven't heard that tren impacts liver values much at all...it's not 17a methylated, so if it is liver toxic, what MOA are you suggesting causes this increase?

Cooper told me the reason tren gives acid reflux is because it inflames the liver.. no clue why it does that though. My guess, the inflammation is what causes elevated in LFTs.
 
Feiwong

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But what about TD Tren? Is this liver and kidneys toxic the same way? I'll run with epistane and epiandro for my cutting. All in my cabinet already.
 
huxley309

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Cooper told me the reason tren gives acid reflux is because it inflames the liver.. no clue why it does that though. My guess, the inflammation is what causes elevated in LFTs.
Not quite, it inflames the pancreas which produces bile salts for digestion.
Hence the acid reflux.
 

criticalbench

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Not quite, it inflames the pancreas which produces bile salts for digestion.
Hence the acid reflux.
Cool, thanks man. It was a while ago, I may have misunderstood coop.. not sure off hand.
 

livestrong82

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When i was on tren a.. post blood work..
Had high liver enzymes
Cholesterol rose a bit
Kindey was off a bit
Higher blood pressure
Cardio dropped in performance

Pre blood work i had none of this

I dont remeber everything exactly by metrics..
I did drink alchaol while on cycle tho..
I felt great! Mood was great and strentgh, libio ect..but the bloodwork said a bit diffrent.. its just the sides... risks. But yes preperaing first and lining out cycles is best. Also if you want to try tren just get tren short ester with test base and if you cant handle sides, just come off.. i did 8 wks low test higher tren.
 
B5150

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Improvements in body composition, cardiometabolic risk factors and insulin sensitivity with trenbolone in normogonadic rats.
Donner DG1, Beck B2, Bulmer AC3, Lam AK4, Du Toit EF3.
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Abstract
Trenbolone (TREN) is used for anabolic growth-promotion in over 20 million cattle annually and continues to be misused for aesthetic purposes in humans. The current study investigated TREN's effects on body composition and cardiometabolic risk factors; and its tissue-selective effects on the cardiovascular system, liver and prostate. Male rats (n=12) were implanted with osmotic infusion pumps delivering either cyclodextrin vehicle (CTRL) or 2mg/kg/day TREN for 6weeks. Dual energy X-ray Absorptiometry assessment of body composition; organ wet weights and serum lipid profiles; and insulin sensitivity were assessed. Cardiac ultrasound examinations were performed before in vivo studies assessed myocardial susceptibility to ischemia-reperfusion (I/R) injury. Circulating sex hormones and liver enzyme activities; and prostate and liver histology were examined. In 6weeks, fat mass increased by 34±7% in CTRLs (p<0.01). Fat mass decreased by 37±6% and lean mass increased by 11±4% with TREN (p<0.05). Serum triglycerides, HDL and LDL were reduced by 62%, 57% and 78% (p<0.05) respectively in TREN rats. Histological examination of the prostates from TREN-treated rats indicated benign hyperplasia associated with an increased prostate mass (149% compared to CTRLs, p<0.01). No evidence of adverse cardiac or hepatic effects was observed. In conclusion, improvements in body composition, lipid profile and insulin sensitivity (key risk factors for cardiometabolic disease) were achieved with six-week TREN treatment without evidence of adverse cardiovascular or hepatic effects that are commonly associated with traditional anabolic steroid misuse. Sex hormone suppression and benign prostate hyperplasia were confirmed as adverse effects of the treatment
 
TheBigJS

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Why the rep?
Night sweats
Anger issues
Paranoia
Tren cough

I'm of the opinion that like anything else it just brings out more of what you are.
But it does it more.

What you like when you're drunk, if you're a twat who starts fights you'll a nightmare on Tren.

Oh and keep the Test low, TRT type low, under 200mg pw and let the Tren do what it does.
1/2 a cc of Tren Ace @100mg/ml EOD is plenty, 1/4cc ED is better if you can stand the pinning. 1/2 that dose will still be effective unless.
I've done it subq with a 29g slin pin as well, seems to work the same and you can't feel a thing, zero pain, never get Tren cough as it's just going into fat.
 

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