Epistane cut/recomp cycle

[mrgoomba]

Looking to start my cycle in 2-3 weeks. I can also log it if anyone is interested. Below is what the current plan is:

On Cylce:
Ep15tane @ 30/30/30/30/45/45 (or i may just do 6 weeks @ 30)
Test base: Undecided, anyone have a good recommendation. Probably just a 4ad?
Ar1macare pro: 4/4/4/4/4/4: Dosage whatever the bottle tells me to take

PCT:
Super PCT: 4/4/3/3/2/: Dosage whatever the bottle tells me
Nolva: 20/20/10/10/0/0
Exemestane: 12.5mg EOD. 0/0/12.5/12.5/12.5/12.5


About me: 26 years old. 6 foot 1 and 208 pounds @ roughly 13%. I finish my bulk today, and start my cut tomorrow, April 1. I'v done 1 cycle of Epistane (brand was Androgenix?). Had good gains and kept most, but I did NOT do a proper pct. This was about 15 months ago.

Goal for this cycle: Cut. I'd like to finish the cut at about 195lbs and 8% bf (Total of 10lb drop and 5% bf). However, my bodyweight MAY be higher but still be at 8%, well see what effect the Ep15tane has on cut. I'd not only like to see my bodyfat fal to 8%, but i'd also like to see an increase in vascularity and ideally a bit of size on my arms, shoulders, and chest.

Diet: I bulked at 3700 calories and was able to consistently put on .5lbs per week (which was my goal). Plan on dieting down to 3,200 calories for about 2 weeks while I wait for all the supplements to arrive. During this 2 weeks, id like to be maintaining weight (Verifying what my maintenance is). I will probably then drop my calories to an even 3k for the entire cut (200 calorie or so deficit). Cut will last 14 weeks. I will be on cycle for weeks 3-8, and PCTing weeks 9-14). If I shed BF quicker than anticipated, I will end the cut early and just eat at maintenance the duration of cycle.

Sorry for the long post - just wanted to lay out my entire plan + expectations, especially if I decide to log this. Any recommendations for a test base?

 

[georgetown]

Honestly dont think 13% is the best spot to use a ph because its that gray area in my opinion, either get down to 10% naturally and then run epi to shred down to 8% while keeping size and all or lean bulk with epi once at 10% to add lean mass gains, just my opinion.

 

[mrgoomba]

That's fair. I won't be starting epi though until my 3rd week of cut so I should be near 10% by then. If not, I can delay until I get there

 

[Driven2lift]

I think 13% is fine honestly, you should have a great recomp on this for sure.

 

[mrgoomba]

I think 13% is fine honestly, you should have a great recomp on this for sure.

Good to hear. Ordered the epi today and will order the exemestane and Nolva tomorrow.

Any other alternatives to exemestane? Stuffs pretty pricey

 

[criticalbench]

I think 13% is fine honestly, you should have a great recomp on this for sure.

Agreed.. If you are a real 13% that is perfect. Most people greatly underestimate there body fat.

 

[mrgoomba]

Agreed.. If you are a real 13% that is perfect. Most people greatly underestimate there body fat.

Ya not over estimating, somewhere between 13 and 15. I mean I still have visible and and veins. If been getting weekly caliper pinches so I can keep an eye on fat gain during bill. Right now calipers show 8% which I know is low, so I always add 5% margin.

For a test base, what would be ideal? I'd prefer to avoid trest

 

[AnabolicGuru]

I would use dermacrine or epiandrosterone as a test base due to the fact that you want to lose bodyfat, everything else looked good

 

[mrgoomba]

Quick update on this: Shocking but I already got delivery of Ep15tane, about 2 weeks ahead of when I thought. Now that I have it at home, placing my order for on cycle support, Dermacrine, and proper pct (nolva and exem).

My questions:

1) would you start Dermacrine week 1 of Epistane, or wait until the start of Week 4 when sides typically become more noticeable (or just start when sides are noticeable such as lethargy and libido).
2) at 205lb, 3 pumps should be good? I typically work out at 5am, then shower at 7 before work. Can I just apply on my chest, shoulders, and upper back after my shower, before I get dressed. I suppose it would be safe to put a shirt on about 15 minutes after dosage?
3) If I dose at 7am, how safe would this be if my wife came in contact at 6-10pmish? Seems by then it should be ok?
4) As far as on cylce goes, Im going to be using Ar1macare Pro. I went this route since im using OL for everything else, and it contains 200mg of Tudca. Is this enough, or should I supplement with additional TUDCA? lastly, the serving size shows 8 caps per day... would you do a split dose of 4 in the morning and 4 in the evening?

As always, thanks for the support. Im still planning on starting in a week, maybe 2 even though i have on hand now. I'd like my body to get used to 3-3200 calories, down from the previous 3700.

 

[Driven2lift]

1- I would run it the whole way

2- 3 pumps as directed should be great, a shirt even 5 minutes later is fine if it has dried off your skin

3- Perfectly safe. Even 10 minutes later, again, once dry off your skin.

4- This is sufficient for epistane IMO. You should have a good time here.
Split the dose, yes, but I'll tag in an OL brother too here GNO


I'd also recommend applying with gloves. This is not necessary but it means less waste and also no compound on your hands

 

[GNO]

1- I would run it the whole way

2- 3 pumps as directed should be great, a shirt even 5 minutes later is fine if it has dried off your skin

3- Perfectly safe. Even 10 minutes later, again, once dry off your skin.

4- This is sufficient for epistane IMO. You should have a good time here.
Split the dose, yes, but I'll tag in an OL brother too here GNO


I'd also recommend applying with gloves. This is not necessary but it means less waste and also no compound on your hands

Split the dose of Ar1macare Pro (4/4).

I prefer to add an extra cap of Tudca to Ar1macare for any cycle, can never be too safe

 

[mrgoomba]

Looks like im ready to go!

One final note, thoughts on Clomid vs Nolva for Epi? My limited knowledge is leaning towards Clomid since it supposedly is superior in restarting the HPTA. The estrogenic benefits of Nolva seem unnecessary if using an AI weeks 3 and 4 of pct, and then extending an additional 2 weeks. Im sure either is fine, but think restarting HPTA should be the main focus?

Additionaly, i'v decided to run exemstane (RC) at 12.5/12.5/12.5/6.5 - the taper should help prevent the rebound. Is a 1 week taper ok, or would you treat the taper the same as a SERM and do 12.5/12.5/6.5/6.5. Clearly having leftover on hand if one experiences a flare up

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Looks like im ready to go!

One final note, thoughts on Clomid vs Nolva for Epi? My limited knowledge is leaning towards Clomid since it supposedly is superior in restarting the HPTA. The estrogenic benefits of Nolva seem unnecessary if using an AI weeks 3 and 4 of pct, and then extending an additional 2 weeks. Im sure either is fine, but think restarting HPTA should be the main focus?

Additionaly, i'v decided to run exemstane (RC) at 12.5/12.5/12.5/6.5 - the taper should help prevent the rebound. Is a 1 week taper ok, or would you treat the taper the same as a SERM and do 12.5/12.5/6.5/6.5. Clearly having leftover on hand if one experiences a flare up

I prefer clomid over nolva...exemestane 0/0/12.5/12.5/12.5/12.5 eod should suffice, tapering it isnt necessary as it is a suicidal aromatize inhibitor

 

[Gutterpump]

Honestly dont think 13% is the best spot to use a ph because its that gray area in my opinion, either get down to 10% naturally and then run epi to shred down to 8% while keeping size and all or lean bulk with epi once at 10% to add lean mass gains, just my opinion.

I've recomped using Epistane as my sole PH, years ago, while I was 18%. Worked wonderfully on a CKD. Got down to 13-14% and looked fairly dry and vascular for that level of BF%. Worked extremely well on my CKD. I also dosed it up to 50-60mg though, but I'm a fairly tall/big dude.

 

[georgetown]

I've recomped using Epistane as my sole PH, years ago, while I was 18%. Worked wonderfully on a CKD. Got down to 13-14% and looked fairly dry and vascular for that level of BF%. Worked extremely well on my CKD. I also dosed it up to 50-60mg though, but I'm a fairly tall/big dude.

Im sure you did, im just saying 13 is so close to 10 id rather be at 10 to have a "cleaner" cycle. Its ust what I would do, a ph will certainely help either way and of course you know for yourself, it would definitely help at 18 bf like you were.

 

[Gutterpump]

Im sure you did, im just saying 13 is so close to 10 id rather be at 10 to have a "cleaner" cycle. Its ust what I would do, a ph will certainely help either way and of course you know for yourself, it would definitely help at 18 bf like you were.

I gotcha. I would only worry about that when deciding to bulk though. A cut will be clean, no matter where ya are. But someone over 20% will not get the visual effects of hardening/vascularity from PH/steroids. Under that, when cutting, then PH/AAS will have these visual effects.

 

[linuxjon]

Any reason nobody is suggesting Trest for the base?

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Any reason nobody is suggesting Trest for the base?

Op wants to cut, and this also appears to be his second cycle

 

[mrgoomba]

Op wants to cut, and this also appears to be his second cycle

This. Trest is something I will save for a 3rd or 4th cycle

 

[Gutterpump]

This. Trest is something I will save for a 3rd or 4th cycle

Good idea. It's a bit of a beast. I'm going to cut with trest ace & epi this spring though, but most people choose to bulk with it. Trest is great for cutting/recomping if you are able to keep carbs low, otherwise, far too much water weight gained from it. Trest & epi would be a good combo though, the epistane will definitely help to keep estrogen down from the trest.

 

[808shredded]

Stacking epistane, td tren and epiandro for my recomp atm. The gains are awesome.

 

[mrgoomba]

Wondering if this can be moved to cycle info since I plan on logging weekly. Iv also settled on Damage Control by LGI instead of Arm1care Pro. I went this route because I do not want the AI that's in Arm1care pro. I will also be adding an additional 250mg of TUDCA to this.

Cycle starts Wednesday, April 13th.

 

[linuxjon]

Op wants to cut, and this also appears to be his second cycle

This. Trest is something I will save for a 3rd or 4th cycle

Didn't realize it was considered thst strong of compound. Was planning on going Epistane/Trest for my second cycle. Was going to be bulking with it though.

 

[mrgoomba]

Didn't realize it was considered thst strong of compound. Was planning on going Epistane/Trest for my second cycle. Was going to be bulking with it though.

Im not all that familiar with it, but the risk v. reward was not quite there for me, especially on a cut. The logs though look great, im sure you will enjoy it.

 

[Gutterpump]

Yup trest has a very high risk/reward ratio but if the proper precautions are in place (estro control / prolactin control), then it's amazing. Definitely not for the inexperienced.

 

[mrgoomba]

alright so today is day 2 of my epi cycle. Again, this is my second time taking but I really dont recall and sides from my first time or how I felt, just the gains I made.

I train at 5am. I wake up at 430, mix some oats with banana and protein shake, and then eat directly after workout with my full breakfast. Both yesterday and today I took my epi first thing when I woke up with cycle support and tudca, then ate, then the gym. Both days Iv felt like **** during my workout to the point where it really suffered and I had to just leave. I felt light headed and nauseous both days... almost like passing out. I had to lay down when I got home.

Could this be caused by Epi? Cycle support? I know many take on empty stomach, but would I be better off just taking it right after I workout?

 

[808shredded]

Certian brands of epi made me feel lethargic, i felt the same too. When i added on epi andro that symptoms went away. Or maybe its a placebo effect?

 

[Driven2lift]

Certian brands of epi made me feel lethargic, i felt the same too. When i added on epi andro that symptoms went away. Or maybe its a placebo effect?

Sounds like maybe only certain brands were actually epi

 

[mrgoomba]

I'm running dermacrine with it and I'm only 2 days in. Both second doses are fine, it's just the first pre workout

 

[Misfit28]

I'm running dermacrine with it and I'm only 2 days in. Both second doses are fine, it's just the first pre workout

Did you say what brand you're
using?

 

[mrgoomba]

Did you say what brand you're
using?

OL. Today was an off day, still had the same feeling within 20 minutes of taking

 

[Scoons33]

I thought support supps were supposed to be taken 2-3 hours after each dose and not with the PH. I am not sure if this would cause you to feel like crap but figured I would mention it...

 

[Misfit28]

OL. Today was an off day, still had the same feeling within 20 minutes of taking

Oh OK. OL should be good to go, IMO