Help with Upcoming Cycle

[ron5522]

I need help deciding on what to run in the next month or so. In the past I've ran M-Drol years ago. Then the last 2 February/March I've ran Stenabol(Msten) and Msten by Assault Labs. With the new bans in late 2014, most companies stopped producing Msten but someone pointed me in the right direction to buy Msten from a UK provider.

I have 3 options I'm looking at. #1 running Msten again, I know what I'm getting. Option 2 stacking 1-Andro, 4-Andro, and EpiAndro. Option 3 Super DMZ 2.0, which is a combination of Msten and DMZ I believe.

I've always had great results from Msten. Side effects being typical, Lower libido, night sweats, back pumps, increased aggression. I haven't really seen many post of those who stacked 1-Andro, 4-Andro, and EpiAndro and usually stacking Prohormones isn't a great idea but from what I've read they stack really well with each other. One countering the side effects of the other. All are not harsh on the body at all. I've read many post of those who have used Super DMZ 2.0.

I'd love to hear from those who actually know what they are talking about and not just those giving me their opinion cause it's what they ran. I know what I'm doing pre cycle, On cycle, and PCT. I just need help deciding what to run. I prefer running something that has minimal side effects with respectful results. Which of the 3 options sounds the best? Or possibly another popular option.

About me 27 5'10" 189lbs around 10% BF

PS I have a detailed log from 2yrs ago of the Stenabol cycle I ran if you're curious. Just search "Log: Olympus Labs Stenabol Cycle" or my username "Ron5522"

 

[123abcabcabc]

I'd do Epistane with test base (4-Andro or Dermacrine) for 8 weeks.

 

[TexasLifter89]

Msten is good stuff man, but the Andros work good too.

What kind of gains are you looking for? You can certainly stack an 4Andro with Msten.

I don't think I would run the SDMZ 2.0. I need to hear more about your goals before I can say option 1 or 2 comfortably.

Basically you can do msten solo and probably put on 10-15 lbs in 4 weeks. You can run a SERM and standard methyl recommended PCT.

You can stack 4Andro with msten to try to offset the lethargy (I've never experienced lethargy on my past runs personally). The 4Andro will assist though and can all around help you feel better and experience some extra gains.

Or you can run a purely andro stack and probably put on something like 7 - 12 lbs over a 4 -6 week run, experience no sides, and probably recover properly with an OTC PCT like ReversitolV2 and Testobolan (blood work supporting this statement btw).

 

[ron5522]

Goal is typical for most guys..... to put on mass and increase overal strength. If I had to prioritize, I'd prefer strength over mass.

In the past I've gained between 15-18lbs on 5weeks of Msten but I'll end up lossing 5-8lbs few weeks after PCT regardless of how much I lift and eat to prevent it.

I do like the idea of stacking Msten with 4-Andro. Would it be harsher on the liver and body to stack them or including 4-Andro not add too much extra stress?

And ideally I would love to runn a longer cycle, 6-8 weeks. Obviously running something strong as Msten wouldn't be smart to run longer than 4-5 weeks. So if it's safer to run 4-5weeks, I can live with that.

If I did run Msten with 4-andro what would the dosage be? Or based on whatever stack you would recommend. In the past I'll do something like 5/10/15/20 for Msten.

 

[booneman77]

Msten is good stuff man, but the Andros work good too.

What kind of gains are you looking for? You can certainly stack an 4Andro with Msten.

I don't think I would run the SDMZ 2.0. I need to hear more about your goals before I can say option 1 or 2 comfortably.

Basically you can do msten solo and probably put on 10-15 lbs in 4 weeks. You can run a SERM and standard methyl recommended PCT.

You can stack 4Andro with msten to try to offset the lethargy (I've never experienced lethargy on my past runs personally). The 4Andro will assist though and can all around help you feel better and experience some extra gains.

Or you can run a purely andro stack and probably put on something like 7 - 12 lbs over a 4 -6 week run, experience no sides, and probably recover properly with an OTC PCT like ReversitolV2 and Testobolan (blood work supporting this statement btw).

Da fuq? Who is running OTC pct for an andro stack cycle??? That's stupid advice.

 

[ron5522]

It's cool, lol. I would never rely on OTC PCT alone. I know how important SERMs are.

 

[TexasLifter89]

Our Hitech 1testosyerone with cyclosome delivery won't cause noticeable liver stress. It's 110mg per cap also. Maybe you could look at a 6 week cycle of 1/4andro with an msten 4 week kickstart.

The. When you go into pct just eat at your new maitenence

Goal is typical for most guys..... to put on mass and increase overal strength. If I had to prioritize, I'd prefer strength over mass.

In the past I've gained between 15-18lbs on 5weeks of Msten but I'll end up lossing 5-8lbs few weeks after PCT regardless of how much I lift and eat to prevent it.

I do like the idea of stacking Msten with 4-Andro. Would it be harsher on the liver and body to stack them or including 4-Andro not add too much extra stress?

And ideally I would love to runn a longer cycle, 6-8 weeks. Obviously running something strong as Msten wouldn't be smart to run longer than 4-5 weeks. So if it's safer to run 4-5weeks, I can live with that.

 

[TexasLifter89]

Da fuq? Who is running OTC pct for an andro stack cycle??? That's stupid advice.

Please tell me why otc pct is stupid for a 1andro 4andro stack. As I said we have blood work supporting this. So how can you argue with blood work?

I'm assuming you are also going to recommend and rc grade serm? Lol because we know those are dosed accurately.

edit: we're not talking running OTC if he does a Msten kickstart or incorporates a methyl in any way. We're talking straight 1DHEA / 4DHEA.

Here is the bloods of someone running Reversitol V2 and Testobolan in PCT:

Day 1 PCT
Test: 279 ng/dl (300-1000 normal, starting before cycle was 857 ng/dl)
Estradiol: 22.9 pg/ml (14-55 normal)
FSH: 1.7 mIU/ml (1.5-12 normal)
LH: 1.6 (2-8.6 normal)

Day 8 PCT
Test: 439 ng/dl (300-1000 normal)
Estradiol: 29 pg/ml (14-55 normal)
FSH: 3.1 mIU/ml (1.5-12 normal)
LH: 4.2 (2-8.6 normal)

Day 15 PCT
Test: 601 ng/dl (300-1000 normal)
Estradiol: 37.1 pg/ml (14-55 normal)
FSH: 5.1 mIU/ml (1.5-12 normal)
LH: 8.1 (2-8.6 normal)

Day 22 PCT
Test: 769 ng/dl (300-1000 normal)
Estradiol: 32.6 pg/ml (14-55 normal)
FSH: 6.3 mIU/ml (1.5-12 normal)
LH: 8.7 (2-8.6 normal)
Free Testosterone: 20.4 (9-30 ng/dL normal)


Day 29 PCT FINAL BLOOD
Test: 879 ng/dl (300-1000 normal)
Estradiol: 26.9 pg/ml (14-55 normal)
FSH: 6.8 mIU/ml (1.5-12 normal)
LH: 6.2 (2-8.6 normal)
Free Testosterone: 22.7 (9-30 ng/dL normal)

This was for a cycle tougher than a 1Andro / 4Andro will put you through and was run on this very forum.

 

[123abcabcabc]

Please tell me why otc pct is stupid for a 1andro 4andro stack. As I said we have blood work supporting this. So how can you argue with blood work?

I'm assuming you are also going to recommend and rc grade serm? Lol because we know those are dosed accurately.

edit: we're not talking running OTC if he does a Msten kickstart or incorporates a methyl in any way. We're talking straight 1DHEA / 4DHEA.

Here is the bloods of someone running Reversitol V2 and Testobolan in PCT:

Day 1 PCT
Test: 279 ng/dl (300-1000 normal, starting before cycle was 857 ng/dl)
Estradiol: 22.9 pg/ml (14-55 normal)
FSH: 1.7 mIU/ml (1.5-12 normal)
LH: 1.6 (2-8.6 normal)

Day 8 PCT
Test: 439 ng/dl (300-1000 normal)
Estradiol: 29 pg/ml (14-55 normal)
FSH: 3.1 mIU/ml (1.5-12 normal)
LH: 4.2 (2-8.6 normal)

Day 15 PCT
Test: 601 ng/dl (300-1000 normal)
Estradiol: 37.1 pg/ml (14-55 normal)
FSH: 5.1 mIU/ml (1.5-12 normal)
LH: 8.1 (2-8.6 normal)

Day 22 PCT
Test: 769 ng/dl (300-1000 normal)
Estradiol: 32.6 pg/ml (14-55 normal)
FSH: 6.3 mIU/ml (1.5-12 normal)
LH: 8.7 (2-8.6 normal)
Free Testosterone: 20.4 (9-30 ng/dL normal)


Day 29 PCT FINAL BLOOD
Test: 879 ng/dl (300-1000 normal)
Estradiol: 26.9 pg/ml (14-55 normal)
FSH: 6.8 mIU/ml (1.5-12 normal)
LH: 6.2 (2-8.6 normal)
Free Testosterone: 22.7 (9-30 ng/dL normal)

This was for a cycle tougher than a 1Andro / 4Andro will put you through and was run on this very forum.

When reps go too far...






















SERM or gtfo.

 

[booneman77]

Please tell me why otc pct is stupid for a 1andro 4andro stack. As I said we have blood work supporting this. So how can you argue with blood work?

I'm assuming you are also going to recommend and rc grade serm? Lol because we know those are dosed accurately.

edit: we're not talking running OTC if he does a Msten kickstart or incorporates a methyl in any way. We're talking straight 1DHEA / 4DHEA.

Here is the bloods of someone running Reversitol V2 and Testobolan in PCT:

Day 1 PCT
Test: 279 ng/dl (300-1000 normal, starting before cycle was 857 ng/dl)
Estradiol: 22.9 pg/ml (14-55 normal)
FSH: 1.7 mIU/ml (1.5-12 normal)
LH: 1.6 (2-8.6 normal)

Day 8 PCT
Test: 439 ng/dl (300-1000 normal)
Estradiol: 29 pg/ml (14-55 normal)
FSH: 3.1 mIU/ml (1.5-12 normal)
LH: 4.2 (2-8.6 normal)

Day 15 PCT
Test: 601 ng/dl (300-1000 normal)
Estradiol: 37.1 pg/ml (14-55 normal)
FSH: 5.1 mIU/ml (1.5-12 normal)
LH: 8.1 (2-8.6 normal)

Day 22 PCT
Test: 769 ng/dl (300-1000 normal)
Estradiol: 32.6 pg/ml (14-55 normal)
FSH: 6.3 mIU/ml (1.5-12 normal)
LH: 8.7 (2-8.6 normal)
Free Testosterone: 20.4 (9-30 ng/dL normal)


Day 29 PCT FINAL BLOOD
Test: 879 ng/dl (300-1000 normal)
Estradiol: 26.9 pg/ml (14-55 normal)
FSH: 6.8 mIU/ml (1.5-12 normal)
LH: 6.2 (2-8.6 normal)
Free Testosterone: 22.7 (9-30 ng/dL normal)

This was for a cycle tougher than a 1Andro / 4Andro will put you through and was run on this very forum.

That's all fine and good but thats one person and 4 years old... Find another person who would run any legit cycle without a serm (and no, I wouldn't recommend rc grade unless there was no other option, but still would over nothing).

That's a nice sales pitch but I can't fathom there being anyone else here that would support you in this. Thanks but no thanks.

 

[TexasLifter89]

When reps go too far...

SERM or gtfo.

LOL, please.

There is this thought now days that everything and its mom need to be RC SERM'd for a proper recovery. Do you know how many folks have access to true pharma grade SERMs that you guys push these SERM recommendations to? Minimal.

Trust me, I keep a SERM on hand when I am running methyls personally and sure I have them on hand for any cycle, but I definitely prefer to go the OTC route for DHEAs before resorting to a SERM, and I have pharma grade.

 

[booneman77]

I definitely prefer to go the OTC route for DHEAs before resorting to a SERM, and I have pharma grade.

You sir, are dumb then. Just an asinine thing to chance recovery when you could just all but guarantee it.

 

[TexasLifter89]

You sir, are dumb then. Just an asinine thing to chance recovery when you could just all but guarantee it.

Ah, so now we are going to resort to personal insults and name calling. Gotcha.

That's fine and I'll end this discussion here. I gave cycle recommendations to OP based off his question, he is more than happy to follow his own PCT protocol. OP, don't trust an RC serm to be accurate, do your research if you are going that route.

For me personally, I have run a decent variety of compounds and and without OTC PCT. I do not run OTC PCT for m1t, m1a, SD, Phera, etc, but have run OCT PCT with a mix of andros just fine. Bloodwork always gets done and I have no gyno (as it should for any responsible cycler), and I've not had any ill results.

 

[ron5522]

Lol, these post always turn into the telephone game. The topic of discussion by the end doesn't remotely resemble the beginning. Haha

Kickstart with Msten....... I'm not too knowledgable on this method. I have in depth knowledge on Msten but very little on these Andros outside the basics. Essentially, I run a 4 week cycle of Msten and then I jump right into a 6-ish week cycle of 1-Andro/4-Andro stack? While only using On cycle support during the duration of the cycle. Then following the end of 1-Andro/4-Andro run, I jump into my perfect and overly cautious PCT which would include OTC PCT, SERM, and an extra On cycle support.

And this is perfectly safe-ish on my body and my bodies ability to return to its normal hormone production post PCT? I've never ran anything longer than 4-5 weeks before jumping into my PCT.

 

[booneman77]

Ah, so now we are going to resort to personal insults and name calling. Gotcha.

That's fine and I'll end this discussion here. I gave cycle recommendations to OP based off his question, he is more than happy to follow his own PCT protocol. OP, don't trust an RC serm to be accurate, do your research if you are going that route.

For me personally, I have run a decent variety of compounds and and without OTC PCT. I do not run OTC PCT for m1t, m1a, SD, Phera, etc, but have run OCT PCT with a mix of andros just fine. Bloodwork always gets done and I have no gyno (as it should for any responsible cycler), and I've not had any ill results.

its not a personal insult, its a fact. Not using a serm when you have the option to is, in fact, dumb.

you're attempted shilling of your products is completely misplaced and I hope that you can see that recommending things like this only makes you and your company look bad as it simply gives people the wrong idea relative to dangerous compounds (not saying the andro's are necessarily, but ill informed/ignorant people will take your posts and extrapolate that to other compounds that are far worse). Hi-tech has enough reputation problems with the fact that they name their compounds after illegal steroids when they in fact contain nothing of the namesake... its a poor marketing ploy that most of us who want to use things responsibly see huge irresponsibility in. Of course, this is my personal opinion, but not one that isn't shared by quite a few around here.

 

[booneman77]

Lol, these post always turn into the telephone game. The topic of discussion by the end doesn't remotely resemble the beginning. Haha

Kickstart with Msten....... I'm not too knowledgable on this method. I have in depth knowledge on Msten but very little on these Andros outside the basics. Essentially, I run a 4 week cycle of Msten and then I jump right into a 6-ish week cycle of 1-Andro/4-Andro stack? While only using On cycle support during the duration of the cycle. Then following the end of 1-Andro/4-Andro run, I jump into my perfect and overly cautious PCT which would include OTC PCT, SERM, and an extra On cycle support.

And this is perfectly safe-ish on my body and my bodies ability to return to its normal hormone production post PCT? I've never ran anything longer than 4-5 weeks before jumping into my PCT.

you can, but personally i would think youll see much more from jsut the sten than you will from the andros. the only way i would go is to stack the sten and 4 for the first 4 weeks and then 1 + 4 for the next 4 for 8 total.

 

[TexasLifter89]

Lol, these post always turn into the telephone game. The topic of discussion by the end doesn't remotely resemble the beginning. Haha

Kickstart with Msten....... I'm not too knowledgable on this method. I have in depth knowledge on Msten but very little on these Andros outside the basics. Essentially, I run a 4 week cycle of Msten and then I jump right into a 6-ish week cycle of 1-Andro/4-Andro stack? While only using On cycle support during the duration of the cycle. Then following the end of 1-Andro/4-Andro run with my perfectly overly cautious PCT which would include OTC PCT, SERM, and an extra On cycle support.

And this is perfectly safe-ish on my body and my bodies ability to return to its normal hormone production post PCT? I've never ran anything longer than 4-5 weeks before jumping on my PCT.

A common intro steroid cycle you'll hear of is Dbol + Test. The reason people do this is because Test takes awhile to "kick in", so they use Dbol to kickstart the cycle and while waiting on the injectable test to take effect.

Essentially with an MSTEN kickstart to a 1DHEA / 4DHEA cycle we are replicating this. The MSTEN is an active steroid, meaning there is no conversion and it just works. You know what gains to expect here and you know how quick they happen.

The 4DHEA will convert to testosterone, so this is commonly used as an OTC "test" base due to 4DHEA's conversion. Folks typically start to notice this in week 3 - 4. The goal with this is to provide the test base of your OTC cycle and to potentially offset lethargy and other related sides.

The 1DHEA will already be kicked in by the time you have tapered or cycled off your msten kickstart. The goal with 1DHEA is to extend your gains. 1DHEA converts into 1-test. It will help with mass as well as hardening. I have also seen people use epiandro rather than 1DHEA here, or just 4DHEA.

You will find some people prefer to kickstart a longer cycle and then some people also prefer to put it at the end, basically first half vs second half. I personally have always kickstarted at the beginning. Again, it's all up to you. If you're comfortable with purely an MSTEN run, you can go that route too.

I will also note that, not sure where you're located, but I would pick up the female hormone panel (yes female, it's cheaper) from http://www.privatemdlabs.com to run pre and post cycle bloods to make sure you recover to your pre-cycle baseline before you start. It's worth your time to do this part so that you can make sure your PCT is effective.

 

[AnabolicGuru]

I'd do Epistane with test base (4-Andro or Dermacrine) for 8 weeks.

This...Triumphalis is also a good alternative to epistane based off everything I've read, it has a better full-muscle effect too from the nutrient partitioning effects said to be similar to mdrol/msten/dmz but the lean gains and toxicity of anavar/winny

 

[TexasLifter89]

This...Triumphalis is also a good alternative to epistane based off everything I've read, it has a better full-muscle effect too from the nutrient partitioning effects said to be similar to mdrol/msten/dmz but the lean gains and toxicity of anavar/winny

If he went the Triumph route I would definitely follow if he logged. I picked up some OL Triumph bottles from Nutriverse that I have been sitting on. Don't really see it mentioned anymore and haven't personally used it before.

 

[ron5522]

you can, but personally i would think youll see much more from jsut the sten than you will from the andros. the only way i would go is to stack the sten and 4 for the first 4 weeks and then 1 + 4 for the next 4 for 8 total.

I'm liking this idea. So, I stack Msten with 4-Andro for 4 weeks and then I come off Msten and replace it with 1-Andro while I continue using 4-Andro? Then immediately at the conclusion of the 1-Andro/4-Andro stack I jump on my PCT......

How would you recommend I dose the Msten, 1-Andro, and 4-Andro? If, I did 4 weeks of Msten + 4-Andro then 4 weeks of 1-Andro + 4-Andro.....

 

[TexasLifter89]

I'm liking this idea. So, I stack Msten with 4-Andro for 4 weeks and then I come off Msten and replace it with 1-Andro while I continue using 4-Andro? Then immediately at the conclusion of the 1-Andro/4-Andro stack I jump on my PCT......

How would you recommend I dose the Msten, 1-Andro, and 4-Andro? If, I did 4 weeks of Msten + 4-Andro then 4 weeks of 1-Andro + 4-Andro.....

What mg per cap is your bottle? I've seen msten with a few diff mg caps before.

 

[AnabolicGuru]

If he went the Triumph route I would definitely follow if he logged. I picked up some OL Triumph bottles from Nutriverse that I have been sitting on. Don't really see it mentioned anymore and haven't personally used it before.

Keep an eye out for my log, I'll be running it within the next 2 months or so...You should run it too since you already have it, I've read so much up on it at prohormoneforum, that seems to be where a lot of people have ran it

 

[ron5522]

A common intro steroid cycle you'll hear of is Dbol + Test. The reason people do this is because Test takes awhile to "kick in", so they use Dbol to kickstart the cycle and while waiting on the injectable test to take effect.

Essentially with an MSTEN kickstart to a 1DHEA / 4DHEA cycle we are replicating this. The MSTEN is an active steroid, meaning there is no conversion and it just works. You know what gains to expect here and you know how quick they happen.

The 4DHEA will convert to testosterone, so this is commonly used as an OTC "test" base due to 4DHEA's conversion. Folks typically start to notice this in week 3 - 4. The goal with this is to provide the test base of your OTC cycle and to potentially offset lethargy and other related sides.

The 1DHEA will already be kicked in by the time you have tapered or cycled off your msten kickstart. The goal with 1DHEA is to extend your gains. 1DHEA converts into 1-test. It will help with mass as well as hardening. I have also seen people use epiandro rather than 1DHEA here, or just 4DHEA.

You will find some people prefer to kickstart a longer cycle and then some people also prefer to put it at the end, basically first half vs second half. I personally have always kickstarted at the beginning. Again, it's all up to you. If you're comfortable with purely an MSTEN run, you can go that route too.

I will also note that, not sure where you're located, but I would pick up the female hormone panel (yes female, it's cheaper) from to run pre and post cycle bloods to make sure you recover to your pre-cycle baseline before you start. It's worth your time to do this part so that you can make sure your PCT is effective.

I'm a bit confused. I get the idea of a Kickstarter. Once I come off Msten and jump onto 1/4-Andro stack, wouldn't it be 2-3 weeks of having to wait for the Andros to kick in? Since the effects take time.....

 

[ron5522]

What mg per cap is your bottle? I've seen msten with a few diff mg caps before.

I haven't purchased any supps yet. A ballpark number would be fine and I'll adjust as needed based on how many mg are the caps.

 

[TexasLifter89]

I'm a bit confused. I get the idea of a Kickstarter. Once I come off Msten and jump onto 1/4-Andro stack, wouldn't it be 2-3 weeks of having to wait for the Andros to kick in? Since the effects take time.....

With my example I was referring to running the 1 / 4 andro the whole time. The 1 andro could also be run for four weeks using the setup Boone proposed. You likely won't notice the 1andro during the msten if you did stack them.

I would run the 4andro all the way through the cycle. You could even scale the andros up to 550mg if you desired to, but totally optional

Not sure what msten dose you are comfortable with, I have never needed to go beyond 20mg per day that I can recall off the top of my head.

Ex cycle
Msten 10/10/20/20/0/0/0/0/
4dhea 330/330/330/330/330/330/330/330
1dhea 0/0/0/0/330/330/330/330

 

[VaughnTrue]

Here is another end user who used only reversitol v2:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/i-force-nutrition/161724-reversitol-v2-bloodwork.html

from my email records(I love you Outlook), he ran a cycle consisting of halodrol + Bold200 at doses of 50mg + 800mg for 6 weeks. Thus why I always tell people halodrol was far less suppressive than many claimed.

 

[VaughnTrue]

just as my final word here, no one from HiTech or else where is saying an OTC PCT is better than SERM. If you have access to pharm grade SERMs, use them! I just have an issue with research chems are these is zero way to know if what you're getting is dosed properly or even legit at all.

 

[ron5522]

With my example I was referring to running the 1 / 4 andro the whole time. The 1 andro could also be run for four weeks using the setup Boone proposed. You likely won't notice the 1andro during the msten if you did stack them.

I would run the 4andro all the way through the cycle. You could even scale the andros up to 550mg if you desired to, but totally optional

Not sure what msten dose you are comfortable with, I have never needed to go beyond 20mg per day that I can recall off the top of my head.

Ex cycle
Msten 10/10/20/20/0/0/0/0/
4dhea 330/330/330/330/330/330/330/330
1dhea 0/0/0/0/330/330/330/330

This sounder perfect. I'll probably do something similar to what you have laid out. 20mg of Msten is more than enough for me too. Is 330mg of the Andros the average dose or is that the minimal for results?

Where's the best place/brand to purchase Andros? Best bang for your buck..... Seems most are around $50 for 60 servings at around 100-125mg.

 

[rascal14]

Every single person, in the US at least, has access to a Pharmaceutical grade SERM without a prescription, that is far cheaper than RC.

As long as you know how to do a simple google search and possibly 5 minutes of researching after that. If you aren't capable of doing this, then you shouldn't be messing with steroids, I think.

Don't message me asking for where and if you're just scared of doing it then don't do steroids, which are mostly illegal at this point themselves.

 

[TexasLifter89]

This sounder perfect. I'll probably do something similar to what you have laid out. 20mg of Msten is more than enough for me too. Is 330mg of the Andros the average dose or is that the minimal for results?

Where's the best place/brand to purchase Andros? Best bang for your buck..... Seems most are around $50 for 60 servings at around 100-125mg.

Hitech produces a 110mg 1Andro product called 1-Testosterone. Nutriverse carries and has coupons. OL also has a 110 mg 1Andro product. I think OL also produces a 110mg 4Andro product (we do not at this current time). Both brands have good delivery systems. 330mg with these delivery systems should be fine, but depending how how you feel you could take them up to 550mg. I have been pleased at just 330mg though myself.

A board sponsor like Nutriverse is who I would buy from (I have used them, they have reps here, and they have been good to me).

 

[ron5522]

Hitech produces a 110mg 1Andro product called 1-Testosterone. Nutriverse carries and has coupons. OL also has a 110 mg 1Andro product. I think OL also produces a 110mg 4Andro product (we do not at this current time). Both brands have good delivery systems. 330mg with these delivery systems should be fine, but depending how how you feel you could take them up to 550mg. I have been pleased at just 330mg though myself.

A board sponsor like Nutriverse is who I would buy from (I have used them, they have reps here, and they have been good to me).

Awesome. Thanks. I'm a fan of Nutriverse too. They have very detailed product pages too. I typical use Nolvadex as part of my PCT. Would that be a good route to go with this cycle? I've never used pharma grade, I've always purchased research chems from the sites you'll see advertised on here. Research chems from well reviewed, reliable sites that untrustworthy compared to pharma grade?

 

[TexasLifter89]

Awesome. Thanks. I'm a fan of Nutriverse too. They have very detailed product pages too. I typical use Nolvadex as part of my PCT. Would that be a good route to go with this cycle? I've never used pharma grade, I've always purchased research chems from the sites you'll see advertised on here. Research chems from well reviewed, reliable sites that untrustworthy compared to pharma grade?

Yes Nolva is perfectly fine. Try to do some extra hunting to see if you can find Pharma grade. It's the only way to know 100% what you are getting and 100% the correct dosage. You can also find it in tab form rather than liquid which is nice. Hunt around a bit on Google and some other places and you'll find mentions.

 

[ron5522]

Awesome. Thanks for all the advise. Hopefully, I can start this by the end of April. Had a pickup basketball accident and fractured my right ankle. Going to wait till I can do legs again for 2-3 weeks before I start the cycle. I'll probably post a detailed Log too for those who are curious.

Just a rough Idea of upcoming cycle

On Cycle
Weeks 1 thru 4
Msten (Methylstenbolone) 10mg/15mg/20mg/20mg
4-Andro. SUP3R-4 by Olympus UK
330/330/330/330
Ar1macare Pro by Olympus Labs (New Formula) 8aps/8caps/8caps/8caps
CEL Cycle Assist 4caps

Weeks 5 thru 8
1-Andro. SUP3R-1 by Olympus UK
330/330/330/330
4-Andro. SUP3R-4 by Olympus UK
330/330/330/330
Ar1macare Pro by Olympus Labs (New Formula)
8aps/8caps/8caps/8caps
CEL Cycle Assist 4caps

Post Cycle
Sup3r PCT by Olympus Labs 4caps/4caps/4caps/3caps/2caps/1caps
LiquidNolva 20mg/20mg/20mg/10mg/10mg/10mg
DAA by Prima Force 3g daily
CEL Cycle Support 8caps daily

 

[TexasLifter89]

Awesome. Thanks for all the advise. Hopefully, I can start this by the end of April. Had a pickup basketball accident and fractured my right ankle. Going to wait till I can do legs again for 2-3 weeks before I start the cycle. I'll probably post a detailed Log too for those who are curious.

Just a rough Idea of upcoming cycle

On Cycle
Weeks 1 thru 4
Msten (Methylstenbolone) 10mg/15mg/20mg/20mg
4-Andro. SUP3R-4 by Olympus UK
330/330/330/330
Ar1macare Pro by Olympus Labs 3caps/3caps/3caps/3caps
CEL Cycle Assist 8caps

Weeks 5 thru 8
1-Andro. SUP3R-1 by Olympus UK
330/330/330/330
4-Andro. SUP3R-4 by Olympus UK
330/330/330/330
Ar1macare Pro by Olympus Labs 3caps/3caps/3caps/3caps
CEL Cycle Assist 8caps


Post Cycle
Sup3r PCT by Olympus Labs 4/4/4/3/2/1
LiquidNolva 20mg/20mg/20mg/10mg/10mg
DAA by Prima Force 3g daily
CEL Cycle Support 8caps daily

Milk Thistle is good for the liver, but down regulates androgen receptors. Can you use something like NAC or TUDCA instead?

 

[ron5522]

Milk Thistle is good for the liver, but down regulates androgen receptors. Can you use something like NAC or TUDCA instead?

I really like Competitive Edge Labs (CEL) Cycle Assist cause it has all that NAC, milk thistle, and tons more to help provide liver, blood pressure, cholesterol, prostate, and acne support.

But I'll look into using something that doesn't contain milk thistle if it really makes a major negative effect on androgen receptors

 

[TexasLifter89]

The Competitive Edge Labs (CEL) Cycle Assist has all that NAC, milk thistle, and tons more to help provide liver, blood pressure, cholesterol, prostate, and acne support.

Yup, just letting you know that tidbit about milk thistle in case you were curious. If down regulation isn't a big deal and you are more comfortable with the all in one vs using seperate ingredients to avoid MT, then I think everything looks good.

 

[NurseGray]

Milk Thistle is good for the liver, but down regulates androgen receptors. Can you use something like NAC or TUDCA instead?

I agree. I'd go with TUDCA myself.