Sup3r 1, Sup3r 4, and Sup3r epi cycle advise

[MJW]

So would all 3 be a better stack than 1 and 4? What should I dose each at? I was thinking sup3r 1 at 330, 4 at 220 and epi at 1000. Also any support to take with the cycle? What would a good pct look like? I have clomid on hand. Pretty much looking for good example cycles. Thanks for the help!

 

[MJW]

Oh and planning on doing an 8 week most likely

 

[NewAgeMayan]

No need to dose epiandro over 500mg imo, esp if stacking with 4

Id take appropriate lipid and heart health supps

 

[MJW]

That'd save some $$ too. Can you give an example of lipid and heart health supps? Are you talking just basics?

 

[NewAgeMayan]

That'd save some $$ too. Can you give an example of lipid and heart health supps? Are you talking just basics?

Yeah fish oil obviously, garlic, extra virg olive oil, would put you ahead of most. I mean, you could go pretty nuts with supps if you want (coq10, spirulina, arjuna, pomegranate, pantethine, tudca, nac, etc etc) but, unless you are really sensitive to ph/ds -type compounds you likely wont need to spend the extra money.

Is this your first cycle?

 

[MJW]

Yeah already take fish oil and multis. I do drink a lot of pom juice. And it's a first andro cycle. I did two ostar1ne cycles. Does anyone know of ar1micare would cover for an AI?

 

[MJW]

And I get alot of olive oil because I eat alot of middle eastern food

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Did you successfully dose clomid for your ostar pct?

 

[MJW]

Did you successfully dose clomid for your ostar pct?

Pretty sure. Didn't feel much shutdown. Took alphamax right after too. I only did 35/25/25 for clomid on oatarine. I was a little weary because I was using a liquid and not pills. Still have not yet found a good price efficient tab or pill source.

 

[MJW]

So here's the cycle I'm planning
sup3r-1 elite:
330/330/330/330/330/330/330/330
super-4 elite:
0/0/220/220/220/220/220/220
super-epi elite:
500/500/500/500/500/500/500/500
Pct:
Clomid 50/25/25/25
Ar1micare or alphamax?
And maybe another AI such as erase pro and natty test booster

Let me know on any modifications! Mostly need help situating pct. Want that all ready before I start.

 

[Jebrook]

So here's the cycle I'm planning
sup3r-1 elite:
330/330/330/330/330/330/330/330
super-4 elite:
0/0/220/220/220/220/220/220
super-epi elite:
500/500/500/500/500/500/500/500
Pct:
Clomid 50/25/25/25
Ar1micare or alphamax?
And maybe another AI such as erase pro and natty test booster

Let me know on any modifications! Mostly need help situating pct. Want that all ready before I start.

Clomid 50/50/25/25
Super PCT
Arimacare Pro(optional but great for health markets even with mild compounds/cycles).

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Personally I wouldnt bother with a natty test booster during PCT. That money could be better spent on some lj100 for after PCT.

 

[MJW]

Personally I wouldnt bother with a natty test booster during PCT. That money could be better spent on some lj100 for after PCT.

What in the world is lj100?

 

[NewAgeMayan]

What in the world is lj100?

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/276244-tongkat-ali-lj100.html

 

[linuxjon]

Have a real AI on hand.

Even at 220mg of 4, I had some water retention and estrogen sides (mood). No gyno, but definitely was bloated.

Ended up dosing Adex daily and that resolved it.

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Have a real AI on hand.

Even at 220mg of 4, I had some water retention and estrogen sides (mood). No gyno, but definitely was bloated.

Ended up dosing Adex daily and that resolved it.

Tru, get some exemestane or arimidex

 

[MJW]

Have a real AI on hand.

Even at 220mg of 4, I had some water retention and estrogen sides (mood). No gyno, but definitely was bloated.

Ended up dosing Adex daily and that resolved it.

Would love to, but cannot find a reliable source that doesn't cost a fortune

 

[MJW]

Have a real AI on hand.

Even at 220mg of 4, I had some water retention and estrogen sides (mood). No gyno, but definitely was bloated.

Ended up dosing Adex daily and that resolved it.

How much exemestane should I dose if problems arise? And saying "have it on hand" does that mean take it as soon as problems arise, or save it to use in pct? Or should I just take it in pct anyways. Sorry, never had to take an AI

 

[MJW]

Think I found a reliable source too. Would 30 pills at 25mg be enough? Or should I get more? Idek what I would dose them at or when in the cycle to dose them at

 

[Jebrook]

Think I found a reliable source too. Would 30 pills at 25mg be enough? Or should I get more? Idek what I would dose them at or when in the cycle to dose them at

12.5 mg eod would probably be enough but I wouldn't use it unless you have signs of gyno.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Think I found a reliable source too. Would 30 pills at 25mg be enough? Or should I get more? Idek what I would dose them at or when in the cycle to dose them at

Yip thatll be enough to cover you.

Edit: what J said

 

[MJW]

So just start taking it eod on cycle if problems arise? Or just wait till pct

 

[The_Old_Guy]

All good info already, just some blurbs:

You only need the 4-AD and/or EpiA to counter any lethargic sides from the 1-Andro - some people do solo 1-AD cycles with nothing else, so it is variable... but the consensus is that yes, you are more than likely to experience lethargy. Testosterone and DHT are what make you "feel good", so that is where the 4 and Epi come in. If you just take 4-AD, you are counting on it's 2-Step conversion to Testosterone, and then it's 5alpha Reductase into DHT (and some Estrogen). Adding Epi to the 4-AD sort of stacks the deck, and also adds (depending on dose) strength, aggression and "AI" like properties.

It all depends on how much you want to spend on the cycle. I did just 1 & 4 and loved it. I'm in the "No AI during a DHEA derivative cycle" camp - especially if taking Epiandro - there just isn't that much conversion to Estrogen, and *some* Estrogen is GOOD (lipids, etc...). Just have Exemestane (Aromasin) in the cabinet and only break the glass if you *really* have issues with breast tissue. Dosing is all over the place, but considering that within 24hours, Aromasin will whack ~70% of all Estrogen, and ~98% within 48 hours (taking a little liberty with the numbers, but close) You can start at 1/4 pill or 6.25mg/Day (or EOD to be really conservative). Note: I've never needed an AI, so do your due diligence.

But yes, if you *do* experience breast tissue issues, you would dose the Aromasin on cycle. Also not a fan of AI's (again, for DHEA derivatives) during PCT - the Clomid/Nolva is protecting the breast tissue while your body's CYP enzymatic system is clearing the excess, and where SHBG is your friend - each individuals mileage may vary.

 

[MJW]

All good info already, just some blurbs:

You only need the 4-AD and/or EpiA to counter any lethargic sides from the 1-Andro - some people do solo 1-AD cycles with nothing else, so it is variable... but the consensus is that yes, you are more than likely to experience lethargy. Testosterone and DHT are what make you "feel good", so that is where the 4 and Epi come in. If you just take 4-AD, you are counting on it's 2-Step conversion to Testosterone, and then it's 5alpha Reductase into DHT (and some Estrogen). Adding Epi to the 4-AD sort of stacks the deck, and also adds (depending on dose) strength, aggression and "AI" like properties.

It all depends on how much you want to spend on the cycle. I did just 1 & 4 and loved it. I'm in the "No AI during a DHEA derivative cycle" camp - especially if taking Epiandro - there just isn't that much conversion to Estrogen, and *some* Estrogen is GOOD (lipids, etc...). Just have Exemestane (Aromasin) in the cabinet and only break the glass if you *really* have issues with breast tissue. Dosing is all over the place, but considering that within 24hours, Aromasin will whack ~70% of all Estrogen, and ~98% within 48 hours (taking a little liberty with the numbers, but close) You can start at 1/4 pill or 6.25mg/Day (or EOD to be really conservative). Note: I've never needed an AI, so do your due diligence.

So what you're saying is I need either just 4 or epi but won't hurt to use both? Does my layout seem like a pretty good cycle?

 

[The_Old_Guy]

So what you're saying is I need either just 4 or epi but won't hurt to use both? Does my layout seem like a pretty good cycle?

Yeah pretty much. Dosages look fine too. Basically, this is where you have to experiment with yourself and find what your own body needs. You could theoretically just do the 1-Andro and be fine, ya know? It depends on how finicky you want to be to see if you get sides, and the minimal dosages needed to counter them. Also it is *usually* recommended to do the least number of compounds for a first cycle, but I don't see how adding EpiA will hurt in this case.

 

[MJW]

Yeah pretty much. Dosages look fine too. Basically, this is where you have to experiment with yourself and find what your own body needs. You could theoretically just do the 1-Andro and be fine, ya know? It depends on how finicky you want to be to see if you get sides, and the minimal dosages needed to counter them. Also it is *usually* recommended to do the least number of compounds for a first cycle, but I don't see how adding EpiA will hurt in this case.

So, maybe it's in my head but my nips I think felt tender and more hard when using ostarine at 25mg. Should I worry about gyno with these compounds?

 

[NewAgeMayan]

All of these ph/ds compounds come with some degree of risk, obviously some more than others. The andros are relatively mild/low risk.

As long as you have the appropriate cycle aids available should symptoms occur, just dont worry. Youre covered. Seen numerous guys get overly analytical with this and unnecessarily paranoid.

 

[MJW]

So I did a cycle of ostarine for a total of almost 8 weeks. Should I wait a total of 8 weeks before I start this cycle? Or should I wait 8 weeks +4 weeks (time took for pct) so total 12 weeks? Or would I be fine with the 8 weeks?

 

[AnabolicGuru]

So I did a cycle of ostarine for a total of almost 8 weeks. Should I wait a total of 8 weeks before I start this cycle? Or should I wait 8 weeks +4 weeks (time took for pct) so total 12 weeks? Or would I be fine with the 8 weeks?

12 weeks, the longer the better imo

 

[MJW]

So can anybody chime in on the gains with these compounds compared to ostarine? I've done a few cycle of ostar1ne and there were gains, but not anything great. Looking for something stronger but not to hard on my body

 

[NewAgeMayan]

So can anybody chime in on the gains with these compounds compared to ostarine? I've done a few cycle of ostar1ne and there were gains, but not anything great. Looking for something stronger but not to hard on my body

If anyone tells you numbers that quantify expected gains they are bull****ting you.

What I mean is, there is quite a wide range of anabolic response to Ostarine amongst users as it is. This makes a numerical comparison against other compounds extremely difficult.

The best you can do is generalise. IMO, on average, and everything else being equal, I think you should expect better gains with a 1,4 stack than with Ostar.

 

[Jebrook]

So can anybody chime in on the gains with these compounds compared to ostarine? I've done a few cycle of ostar1ne and there were gains, but not anything great. Looking for something stronger but not to hard on my body

Definitely a stronger cycle in comparison to Ostarine, yet still mild on the organs and endocrine system for most. Ten lbs or a little more is possible and not uncommon presuming you calorie intake is high enough to support the growth. Strength gains should be more significant as well

 

[MJW]

Definitely a stronger cycle in comparison to Ostarine, yet still mild on the organs and endocrine system for most. Ten lbs or a little more is possible and not uncommon presuming you calorie intake is high enough to support the growth. Strength gains should be more significant as well

Excited to get this going

 

[The_Old_Guy]

So can anybody chime in on the gains with these compounds compared to ostarine? I've done a few cycle of ostar1ne and there were gains, but not anything great. Looking for something stronger but not to hard on my body

All I can tell you is that 8 weeks of AMS 1-Andro and 4-AD added about ~25lbs to my Squat and Deadlift. I was fattter, and in a deficit at the time, so "scale weight" actually kept going down. I'm always leary of "Gained X pounds on X"... what? Water?, Fat? Unless you are in single digit BF%'s, I think weight is a poor metric. Too bad they don't make affordable Home DEXA units.

 

[Brick Tannen]

Good luck with the lethargy. I'm stopping mine at the end of the week, which will be 4 weeks total. 330mg a day. The lethargy of the super 1, and super R, could not be combatted by super 4, and even my trt test base. I have researched several DS and PH over the years including some strong methyls, and none of them compared to the lethargy of the super R, 1, and 4. It works for sure, but I'm not into dhea pro hormones that make me feel like I'm on a 4th week of SD, with out the SD gains!! LOL. Only difference is your using epiandro, which will help the lethargy, as opposed to mine with was androsterone. Good luck mate!!

 

[MJW]

Good luck with the lethargy. I'm stopping mine at the end of the week, which will be 4 weeks total. 330mg a day. The lethargy of the super 1, and super R, could not be combatted by super 4, and even my trt test base. I have researched several DS and PH over the years including some strong methyls, and none of them compared to the lethargy of the super R, 1, and 4. It works for sure, but I'm not into dhea pro hormones that make me feel like I'm on a 4th week of SD, with out the SD gains!! LOL. Only difference is your using epiandro, which will help the lethargy, as opposed to mine with was androsterone. Good luck mate!!

I'll try it out and stop if needed

 

[MJW]

Okay guys... will be starting soon. May even post a log if I have the time. Just waiting on my clomid and exemestane. So how should I dose this stuff. Should I split up the doses? Dose pre workout? What do you all recommend

 

[NewAgeMayan]

We recommend that you split, can minimise sides amongst other things.

 

[MJW]

We recommend that you split, can minimise sides amongst other things.

Like morning and then evening/night? Or maybe morning and then pre workout? (usually workout at night).

 

[MJW]

Should I use any type of cycle support?

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Like morning and then evening/night? Or maybe morning and then pre workout? (usually workout at night).

Yip try the latter, shouldnt negatively impact sleep.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Should I use any type of cycle support?

I do, but I find my lipids and bp tend to be sensitive to these type of compounds.

 

[MJW]

I do, but I find my lipids and bp tend to be sensitive to these type of compounds.

What kind do you use? I was thinking ar1micare because of the estrogen control. But then again, the epi should help with that.

 

[AnabolicGuru]

What kind do you use? I was thinking ar1micare because of the estrogen control. But then again, the epi should help with that.

Couldn't hurt to run it imo

 

[MJW]

All I can tell you is that 8 weeks of AMS 1-Andro and 4-AD added about ~25lbs to my Squat and Deadlift. I was fattter, and in a deficit at the time, so "scale weight" actually kept going down. I'm always leary of "Gained X pounds on X"... what? Water?, Fat? Unless you are in single digit BF%'s, I think weight is a poor metric. Too bad they don't make affordable Home DEXA units.

Btw, I'm 8% bodyfat like year round

 

[MJW]

Soooo... got my cycle in. Just waiting for pct products. Almost considering just doing an lgd and using one of the test bases? What do you all think? Lgd vs sup3r 1

 

[Jebrook]

Soooo... got my cycle in. Just waiting for pct products. Almost considering just doing an lgd and using one of the test bases? What do you all think? Lgd vs sup3r 1

That's not a bad idea. Either are suitable for a first time run. I haven't used LGD myself so I can't compare It and super1. LGD and Super-Epi looks like a nice lean mass gain stack. Let's see what other think.

 

[MJW]

That's not a bad idea. Either are suitable for a first time run. I haven't used LGD myself so I can't compare It and super1. LGD and Super-Epi looks like a nice lean mass gain stack. Let's see what other think.

I've ran ostar1ne twice. Once for 5 weeks and once for 8

 

[MJW]

Sorry about questions.. just get paranoid. So I have the cycle ready but I'm actually waiting for my ai and serm in the mail. I do have liquid clomid but I feel like the tabs would be better. Think I should wait to start the cycle till the stuff comes in? Or just get started now? Idk. I'm just too excited!

 

[Jebrook]

Sorry about questions.. just get paranoid. So I have the cycle ready but I'm actually waiting for my ai and serm in the mail. I do have liquid clomid but I feel like the tabs would be better. Think I should wait to start the cycle till the stuff comes in? Or just get started now? Idk. I'm just too excited!

Always have your ancillaries in hand before starting. If you already have RC Clomid you would be okay to begin probably.