LGD vs OSTA (health biomarkers)

Whacked

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Lots of AAS experience but total SARM newb so I appreciate the help.

How are these on:
1) Lipids
2) Liver
3) Lethargy

Thanks.

Feel free to add in any other relevant SARM comparisons (RAD)
 
UncleSarm

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Lots of AAS experience but total SARM newb so I appreciate the help.

How are these on:
1) Lipids
2) Liver
3) Lethargy

Thanks.

Feel free to add in any other relevant SARM comparisons (RAD)
I just finished a 6 week cycle of Osta at 25mg. Waiting for blood results to come back, so I'll find out if the lipids took a hit or not. As far as lethargy, none. Felt really nice on Osta in every way.
No experience *yet* with LGD. That will be coming up next in a few months though.
 
TheConMan

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I've ran osta a few times before, here's my experience based on bloods:
1) Lipids were in normal range post cycle
2) Liver values increased a bit, but you can keep it in check dosing 1.5g NAC on cycle if that concerns you
3) No lethargy for me, but that depends on the individual. If you do experience lethargy, it's most likely gonna happen half way throu cycle. You can mitigate that with a low dose of 4-DHEA
 
Whacked

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I've ran osta a few times before, here's my experience based on bloods:
1) Lipids were in normal range post cycle
2) Liver values increased a bit, but you can keep it in check dosing 1.5g NAC on cycle if that concerns you
3) No lethargy for me, but that depends on the individual. If you do experience lethargy, it's most likely gonna happen half way throu cycle. You can mitigate that with a low dose of 4-DHEA
Thanks for the feedback!

Hey, future help....TUDCA>NAC for biliary cholestasis (which is typically what occurs in AAS-induced hepatotoxicity) ;)
 

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I would suggest to take an on cycle support when running any sarms to be as safe as possible. Both lgd and osta are suppressive, so depending on what your test levels are to start you may get lethargy and shutdown symptoms or you may not.
 
anab0lix

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Hey, future help....TUDCA>NAC for biliary cholestasis (which is typically what occurs in AAS-induced hepatotoxicity) ;)

So NAC in all cycle supports is basically useless like milk thistle?
 
Whacked

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Kinda sorta lol. For overall liver health these are great but for AAS specific toxicity which is usually the result of biliary cholestasis, these will do little and TUDCA or UDCA will shine.
 
UncleSarm

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I would suggest to take an on cycle support when running any sarms to be as safe as possible. Both lgd and osta are suppressive, so depending on what your test levels are to start you may get lethargy and shutdown symptoms or you may not.
^^^ this. My test dropped by more than 400ng/dl, below minimum, but I was feeling quite good. The sides are quite user dependent.

Westy, what would you recommend for on cycle support?
 

westcoast001

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I really like the look of Lgi Damage Control, but I'm finding very hard to find lately and wondering if it's discontinued. I'm curious about Focused Nutritions On cycle Support supp, it looks pretty good. Other than that tudca is obviously a great one to take on cycle.
 
UncleSarm

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I really like the look of Lgi Damage Control, but I'm finding very hard to find lately and wondering if it's discontinued. I'm curious about Focused Nutritions On cycle Support supp, it looks pretty good. Other than that tudca is obviously a great one to take on cycle.
TUDCA is for liver support though. It will not do anything for the suppression or test levels. Or am I wrong?
 

linuxjon

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I'm running a longer (10 week) cycle of Osta and lethargy hit me hard this (5th) week.

Honestly would not have bothered with this cycle. Would have gone 1-andro + 4-andro, or just gone straight to Trest/Epistane. No sense in backing out now though.
 
NoAddedHmones

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I really like the look of Lgi Damage Control, but I'm finding very hard to find lately and wondering if it's discontinued. I'm curious about Focused Nutritions On cycle Support supp, it looks pretty good. Other than that tudca is obviously a great one to take on cycle.
This the product you referring to?

Ingredients In Cycle Care
SERVING SIZE: 60 Capsules

TUDCA 25mg
ZMA 137.50mg
Hawthorn Berry 150mg
Celery Seed 37.50mg
Saw Palmetto 110mg
N Acetyl L Cysteine 50mg
Milk Thistle 100mg
Pantothenic Acid(vit B-5) 25mg
 
Toren

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TUDCA 25mg
ZMA 137.50mg
Hawthorn Berry 150mg
Celery Seed 37.50mg
Saw Palmetto 110mg
N Acetyl L Cysteine 50mg
Milk Thistle 100mg
Pantothenic Acid(vit B-5) 25mg

^ I would not use a cycle support supplement with that formula for any cycle. It's ingredients are either non-standardized, underdosed, or really underdosed.

westcoast001 If you want something with arimistane, look at OL Arimicare Pro. If you want something without arimistane, look at CEL Cycle Assist. Adding a bit of TUDCA to both is a good idea.
 

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I did 6 weeks of osta shred and my blood work afterwards showed my HDL crashed from 45 to 28. LDL went up also, but I don't remember what it went to. I was on a cycle support also.
 

warlordwrug

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Kinda sorta lol. For overall liver health these are great but for AAS specific toxicity which is usually the result of biliary cholestasis, these will do little and TUDCA or UDCA will shine.
Grape seed extract and r-ala also combats bilirubin(jaundice)
 
NoAddedHmones

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Thanks for sharing, but quite honestly I didn't fully understand the article. Does it say that TUDCA increases your metabolic rate, therefore you burn more calories?
How does that work with using it as on-cycle support?
Definitely would not be my take home message from that study.
 
smith_69

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UncleSarm NoAddedHmones

TUDCA and 4-PBA are capable of activating the D2 pathway (Dopamine receptor D2- main receptor for all antipsychotic drugs)
Exposure of brown adipocytes (cell specialized for the storage of fat, found in connective tissue) to TUDCA or 4-PBA accelerates the production of T3 (triiodothyronine, aka T3) and stimulates energy expenditure via a mechanism that is D2-dependent.

in mice

ps-

i didnt write this crap, it was like reading Klingon

Sarmy made it further than i did last night
 
UncleSarm

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UncleSarm NoAddedHmones

TUDCA and 4-PBA are capable of activating the D2 pathway (Dopamine receptor D2- main receptor for all antipsychotic drugs)
Exposure of brown adipocytes (cell specialized for the storage of fat, found in connective tissue) to TUDCA or 4-PBA accelerates the production of T3 (triiodothyronine, aka T3) and stimulates energy expenditure via a mechanism that is D2-dependent.

in mice

ps-

i didnt write this crap, it was like reading Klingon

Sarmy made it further than i did last night
Reread the whole article today and I still have no idea what it means. From "stimulates energy expenditure" I am guessing it's some sort of stimulant.
 
smith_69

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Reread the whole article today and I still have no idea what it means. From "stimulates energy expenditure" I am guessing it's some sort of stimulant.
thats what im taking from it. however, the study was done on "portly mice"
Screen Shot 2016-03-19 at 4.40.07 PM.png
 
Whacked

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UncleSarm NoAddedHmones

TUDCA and 4-PBA are capable of activating the D2 pathway (Dopamine receptor D2- main receptor for all antipsychotic drugs)
Exposure of brown adipocytes (cell specialized for the storage of fat, found in connective tissue) to TUDCA or 4-PBA accelerates the production of T3 (triiodothyronine, aka T3) and stimulates energy expenditure via a mechanism that is D2-dependent.

in mice

ps-

i didnt write this crap, it was like reading Klingon

Sarmy made it further than i did last night
WTH. So TUDCA (in addition to detoxifying liver) can also assist w depression and increase T3 conversion from T4?
 
smith_69

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WTH. So TUDCA (in addition to detoxifying liver) can also assist w depression and increase T3 conversion from T4?
its a good question, but when you read the report, the mice were overweight and tud was injected- how much will it actually increase in a human and how much would be needed? If you take the norm recom dose, will it make that much of a difference? when people discuss tud, i have never really read anyone saying the test levels increased solely on Tud alone.
Would I take tud in the hopes this will increase my test alone, no. dont think the results would be the ones people would expect.
 
smith_69

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brofessorx little discussion about tudca and increasing of test- provided an article and looking for a def answer- is this within your realm of knowledge or can you shed a little light on this?
 
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