Post-Cycle EPI Liver Help

[Ohio1391]

Hey everyone,

Very new to the prohormone world and after some research, I decided to try a cycle of EPI. My cycle was 20/30/30/40/40/50

On the cycle, I took a test base as well but took some bad advice and did not purchase an on-cycle support such as Gear Support. Instead, I took milk thistle, taurine (for back pumps), fish oil, niacin, and CO-Q10. Right now, I am running sup3r PCT.

***Sidenote*** My cycle ended the day I left for vacation and I forgot to pack my PCT so I went 7 days between ending my cycle and starting my PCT

Anyways during vacation and sometimes during my cycle, I noticed that my urine was somewhat of an amber color and for the last three days, my eyes have started to turn somewhat yellowish. I have been waking up dehydrated but have been drinking about 120 mls of water per day.

I know some of these are symptoms are indicative of jaundice, but my skin hasn't changed tone and my stool has been normal. So I think my liver is stressed and I would like to be able to nurse it back to health.

Does anyone have any recommendations as far as what I should take to help my liver regain strength?

I genuinely appreciate all the help

 

[Bunshichi]

YOU SHOULD GO TO YOUR DOCTOR.

That beeing said TUDCA and NAC are common and very good Supplements for liver health.

I assume you meant something else than 120ml water per day as that is an extremely low amount and probably less than you need to keep on living.

 

[magicwood]

120ml? That's like 4 ounces. I drink 248 ounces of water at leasta day.

 

[Ohio1391]

YOU SHOULD GO TO YOUR DOCTOR.

That beeing said TUDCA and NAC are common and very good Supplements for liver health.

I assume you meant something else than 120ml water per day as that is an extremely low amount and probably less than you need to keep on living.

I meant fluid ounces. What should I tell my doctor then? Appreciate the help!

 

[HardB0iled]

120 ml = 4oz. No wonder your peeing brown and your eyes are turning yellow.

 

[HardB0iled]

I meant fluid ounces. What should I tell my doctor then? Appreciate the help!

Gotcha... Just tell him you're peeing brown and your eyes are turning yellow. ...and that you took epistane with no liver support.

 

[Bunshichi]

And if he doesn't know Epistane you tell him that it is a 17-alpha-alkylated Steroid.

 

[AHH_BOB_SAGET]

120oz of water is still not nearly enough. You should be drinking well over a gallon of water while on any sort of gear. More water, TUDCA, NAC, milk thistle can all help cleanse out your liver, but if you're already experiencing these symptoms, you really should go see your doctor.

Sup3r PCT does not suffice for a PCT on its own, either. Epi can still be very suppressive and requires a SERM. Since you did not do this, and since you've already missed a week, that is all the more reason for you to go to the doctor. You can't really afford to wait around for one to show up in the mail.

 

[T-Bone]

Hey everyone,

Very new to the prohormone world and after some research, I decided to try a cycle of EPI. My cycle was 20/30/30/40/40/50

On the cycle, I took a test base as well but took some bad advice and did not purchase an on-cycle support such as Gear Support. Instead, I took milk thistle, taurine (for back pumps), fish oil, niacin, and CO-Q10. Right now, I am running sup3r PCT.

***Sidenote*** My cycle ended the day I left for vacation and I forgot to pack my PCT so I went 7 days between ending my cycle and starting my PCT

Anyways during vacation and sometimes during my cycle, I noticed that my urine was somewhat of an amber color and for the last three days, my eyes have started to turn somewhat yellowish. I have been waking up dehydrated but have been drinking about 120 mls of water per day.

I know some of these are symptoms are indicative of jaundice, but my skin hasn't changed tone and my stool has been normal. So I think my liver is stressed and I would like to be able to nurse it back to health.

Does anyone have any recommendations as far as what I should take to help my liver regain strength?

I genuinely appreciate all the help

At this point you are pretty much screwed. Don't try and treat this yourself. Get to your doctor ASAP and tell him EVERYTHING you took and are taking now. Seriously by the time your eyes are turning yellow, the damage is done. It's reversible in most cases, but not always. Trust me I know I about this and I speak from experience. Not just talking out my ass. Supplements won't help you now.

 

[T-Bone]

120oz of water is still not nearly enough. You should be drinking well over a gallon of water while on any sort of gear. More water, TUDCA, NAC, milk thistle can all help cleanse out your liver, but if you're already experiencing these symptoms, you really should go see your doctor.

Sup3r PCT does not suffice for a PCT on its own, either. Epi can still be very suppressive and requires a SERM. Since you did not do this, and since you've already missed a week, that is all the more reason for you to go to the doctor. You can't really afford to wait around for one to show up in the mail.

Nah, the reason for the doctor is to treat his liver problem. That's a little bit more important than recovering natural test levels which will recover eventually anyway. That's besides the point though and should be the last thing on this guys mind.

 

[AHH_BOB_SAGET]

Nah, the reason for the doctor is to treat his liver problem. That's a little bit more important than recovering natural test levels which will recover eventually anyway. That's besides the point though and should be the last thing on this guys mind.

I stated to see the doctor in my first paragraph talking about the liver issue.

If he's gonna go in, he might as well be transparent about his crappy selection in pct as well so that the doctor can help out with that. Would be pretty dumb not to.

 

[T-Bone]

I stated to see the doctor in my first paragraph talking about the liver issue.

If he's gonna go in, he might as well be transparent about his crappy selection in pct as well so that the doctor can help out with that. Would be pretty dumb not to.

The doc isn't going to care about his "PCT" and recovering his natural testosterone. That's ridiculous.

 

[leanguy101]

keep us updated on what will happen with the doctor

 

[AHH_BOB_SAGET]

The doc isn't going to care about his "PCT" and recovering his natural testosterone. That's ridiculous.

Haha alright bud. Tell all the people who have ever went into the doc for any sort of rebound gyno or hormonal imbalance issue due to improper pct that they should do it all over again and wait for the symptoms to pop up before seeking a solution. What's ridiculous would be to not bring it up once you're already at the doctor.

 

[T-Bone]

Haha alright bud. Tell all the people who have ever went into the doc for any sort of rebound gyno or hormonal imbalance issue due to improper pct that they should do it all over again and wait for the symptoms to pop up before seeking a solution. What's ridiculous would be to not bring it up once you're already at the doctor.

Priorities.

 

[AHH_BOB_SAGET]

Priorities.

so you would schedule two separate appointments? haha, oookay. sure, schedule the visit for the liver issues but bring up the other stuff after that is addressed! damn son, pretty obvious.

 

[T-Bone]

so you would schedule two separate appointments? haha, oookay. sure, schedule the visit for the liver issues but bring up the other stuff after that is addressed! damn son, pretty obvious.

No, I wouldn't worry about the PCT at all. If my eyes are yellow, screw PCT.

 

[AHH_BOB_SAGET]

No, I wouldn't worry about the PCT at all. If my eyes are yellow, screw PCT.

LOL. hey OP, if sometime between now and when you go see the doc for your liver symptoms, you happen to develop some titties, DO NOT mention it to your doc. Just wait it out and let them grow bigger. Hell, you may even start to lactate!! But that's fine, DO NOT bring it up to your doc. Cause, you know, you cannot fix all of the things. Doc's only let you prioritize and choose one treatment!!

...kidding. don't use that logic. It's idiotic. Let them know and prevent anything worse from happening.

 

[smith_69]

No, I wouldn't worry about the PCT at all. If my eyes are yellow, screw PCT.

lol

 

[HardB0iled]

Doesn't much matter now... I think he passed from liver failure. Good news is he'll look spectacular at his wake with his new tits.

 

[Ohio1391]

Haha I appreciate all the help and support. I am scheduled to see the doc tomorrow because it sounds like something rather serious. My eyes are barely yellow and piss has been clear today. I might just be overthinking it but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

Again, I genuinely appreciate all the help. I'll report back after my appointment tomorrow. Ordered some TUDCA and NAC so hopefully that should help

 

[criticalbench]

What you should take? A damn LFT Panel and go from there. You don't notice liver symptoms until your liver is in pretty bad shape.

 

[T-Bone]

What you should take? A damn LFT Panel and go from there. You don't notice liver symptoms until your liver is in pretty bad shape.

That's what I'm saying. You don't worry about PCT at this point. That's absolutely asinine. If your eyes are yellow, and you walk into a doctors office, most likely the doc is going to send you to hospital to be admitted.

 

[HardB0iled]

Curious to know what his doctor said today. My money is on a case of dehydration paired with mild paranoia.

 

[T-Bone]

So what did the doctor say?. Or did you get admitted to the hospital once they saw that your eyes have turned yellow?

 

[tboan]

Is this what hepatotoxicity looks like?

 

[booneman77]

Is this what hepatotoxicity looks like?

No, this is what idiocracy looks like

 

[toddmuelheim]

So OP is new to PH and instead of researching and making sure he had all proper cycle support, pct and ancillaries lined up, etc., he just took some bad advice and then forgot some otc stuff he bought while on a weeklong vacation. Instead of addressing it the second he realized this, he waited a week and then as he saw he was turning yellow, he made an account on an online bodybuilding forum instead of going to a doctor. If you don't die of liver failure you should read a few books on logic and prioritizing. Idiot.

 

[liftin_fofive]

Really want to know what doc said

 

[MMAguy]

Until he let's us know how the appointment went, I will forever be curious. It's been a while I got a feeling we will never know lol

 

[tboan]

He gone

 

[booneman77]

Until he let's us know how the appointment went, I will forever be curious. It's been a while I got a feeling we will never know lol

I think we can all make some assumptions and go about our bunnies knowing this guy won't be reproducing haha

 

[T-Bone]

Calls doctor-, "Yeah so my eyes are yellow"....Doctor- "Get to the Emergency room now."

 

[T-Bone]

If OP was smart he'd ask "AHH Bob Saget" for a consult first before going to the doctor. I mean at least he's concerned about him finishing PCT, after all that's so much more important than living.

 

[booneman77]

If OP was smart he'd ask "AHH Bob Saget" for a consult first before going to the doctor. I mean at least he's concerned about him finishing PCT, after all that's so much more important than living.

Gains before brains...

 

[RatnikK]

Maybe he is on the hunt for a new liver , trying to kidnapp someone in a back alley and snatched their lover lol.

 

[Ohio1391]

Hey everyone, sorry for the delay.

For the last two weeks I have had blood and urine samples taken. The first time, my bilirubin levels came back elevated. Told my doctor the truth and told him I had stopped taking the pro hormone. He wanted to run another test the following week, which he did. The levels didn't come down. He believes that my body was producing more bilirubin to combat the extra hormones and when I stopped taking the pro hormone, my body was still producing the bilirubin as if I were still taking it so the extra bilirubin was then being stored all over my body.

He had me take an ultrasound today and I am also scheduled to meet with a gastroenterologist here soon. I'll keep everyone updated.

I'm taking TUDCA now to try and help as well

 

[T-Bone]

Hey everyone, sorry for the delay.

For the last two weeks I have had blood and urine samples taken. The first time, my bilirubin levels came back elevated. Told my doctor the truth and told him I had stopped taking the pro hormone. He wanted to run another test the following week, which he did. The levels didn't come down. He believes that my body was producing more bilirubin to combat the extra hormones and when I stopped taking the pro hormone, my body was still producing the bilirubin as if I were still taking it so the extra bilirubin was then being stored all over my body.

He had me take an ultrasound today and I am also scheduled to meet with a gastroenterologist here soon. I'll keep everyone updated.

I'm taking TUDCA now to try and help as well

Itchy yet? Still have an appetite?. Just wondering because I went through something similar but much worse.

 

[toddmuelheim]

Hey everyone, sorry for the delay.

For the last two weeks I have had blood and urine samples taken. The first time, my bilirubin levels came back elevated. Told my doctor the truth and told him I had stopped taking the pro hormone. He wanted to run another test the following week, which he did. The levels didn't come down. He believes that my body was producing more bilirubin to combat the extra hormones and when I stopped taking the pro hormone, my body was still producing the bilirubin as if I were still taking it so the extra bilirubin was then being stored all over my body.

He had me take an ultrasound today and I am also scheduled to meet with a gastroenterologist here soon. I'll keep everyone updated.

I'm taking TUDCA now to try and help as well

Hey we are all glad you are not dead

 

[Ohio1391]

Itchy yet? Still have an appetite?. Just wondering because I went through something similar but much worse.

A little itchy, just got off the phone and they think it may be Cholestasis. Said the duct is a little clogged and they would prescribe some medicine to clear the duct. If that doesn't work, I would need a minor operation. Appetite has been fine as well.

What did you go through if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Ohio1391]

Hey we are all glad you are not dead

i appreciate it. Definitely went at this whole thing like an idiot but I have learned my lesson. Thankfully went to the doctor right away when I noticed the symptoms and got everything reaffirmed on here. Glad I didn't wait for it to just pass

 

[T-Bone]

A little itchy, just got off the phone and they think it may be Cholestasis. Said the duct is a little clogged and they would prescribe some medicine to clear the duct. If that doesn't work, I would need a minor operation. Appetite has been fine as well.

What did you go through if you don't mind me asking?

It was in 2005 so details are a bit fuzzy. First I noticed loss of appetite, eventually it got bad enough that the smell of food just made me want to puke. The itchiness started just when exercising but eventually became so bad it was constant. I mean constant itching all over my body, so bad that I wasn't able to sleep. Wait, the yellow eyes came after the lack of appetite. The order things came on is hard to remember. Went to the ER after my eyes turned yellow....Within a day or two of being admitted my whole body had turned bright yellow, like Simpsons yellow. I was also sh*ting myself and pissing myself, was confused about where I was and what was going on. Stayed in a local hospital for a couple weeks and then was transferred to see a Medical Director of Liver Transplantation & Hepatology....Much more to the story but I don't have time to post everything and don't think I can recall details vividly. Hmmm. I do remember being in the ICU and having my hands cuffed to the bed in gloves so I wouldn't scratch. Also yelled at them saying if they didn't give me anything for the itchiness I would jump out the window.

 

[whey2buff]

This was all from a simple epistane cycle? Chance there was a preexisting condition before, I know tons of guys who have used harsh cycles and didn't end up like that.. wish you the best man

 

[T-Bone]

This was all from a simple epistane cycle? Chance there was a preexisting condition before, I know tons of guys who have used harsh cycles and didn't end up like that.. wish you the best man

Knowing "tons of guys" who have used harsh cycles doesn't prove that taking harsh designer oral steroids are safe or easy on the liver. This isn't the first time this has happened and it won't be the last.

 

[whey2buff]

I apologize I was not trying to say that it won't happen again. But it seems like a healthy adult male would not incur such dramatic sides from one simple cycle

 

[booneman77]

I apologize I was not trying to say that it won't happen again. But it seems like a healthy adult male would not incur such dramatic sides from one simple cycle

why is it that you think steroids get banned then? tehy're dangerous when used improperly... one cycle or many, its no different than skydiving. It only takes one mistake.

 

[T-Bone]

why is it that you think steroids get banned then? tehy're dangerous when used improperly... one cycle or many, its no different than skydiving. It only takes one mistake.

Hell, they are dangerous to use properly. Maybe he thinks they are "vitamins for muscles"?.

 

[T-Bone]

Ohio1391 What is going on?.

 

[smith_69]

It was in 2005 so details are a bit fuzzy. First I noticed loss of appetite, eventually it got bad enough that the smell of food just made me want to puke. The itchiness started just when exercising but eventually became so bad it was constant. I mean constant itching all over my body, so bad that I wasn't able to sleep. Wait, the yellow eyes came after the lack of appetite. The order things came on is hard to remember. Went to the ER after my eyes turned yellow....Within a day or two of being admitted my whole body had turned bright yellow, like Simpsons yellow. I was also sh*ting myself and pissing myself, was confused about where I was and what was going on. Stayed in a local hospital for a couple weeks and then was transferred to see a Medical Director of Liver Transplantation & Hepatology....Much more to the story but I don't have time to post everything and don't think I can recall details vividly. Hmmm. I do remember being in the ICU and having my hands cuffed to the bed in gloves so I wouldn't scratch. Also yelled at them saying if they didn't give me anything for the itchiness I would jump out the window.

wow, having the body issues is one thing but adding on being confused and cog issues man. Has any of this come back?

 

[T-Bone]

wow, having the body issues is one thing but adding on being confused and cog issues man. Has any of this come back?

Not so much. I did have something similar happen a few years past that with 1,4 bold(was supposedly the most mild oral available) but it wasn't nearly as bad....Now I know when something is wrong on cycle and I get blood work usually pre cycle, during, and post cycle in addition to running cycle supports at low dosage when off, high dosages when on and high dosages in pct. Cycle support isn't 100 percent though and you've got to know when to stop your cycle. Never try to "push through it". It's definitely not worth it.