Can I take Methylstenbolone with this OTC PCT?

[Eradicater]

Hello,
I ended up purchasing a "Cycle Stack" from Europe that included the following:

1 bottle of Methylstenbolone (5mg per capsule)
1 bottle of Cycle Support that contains a decent amount of milk thristle
1 bottle of a PCT that contains 75mg per serving of Arimistane along with 800mg of L-Dopa (99%)

I have done cycles of injectable before and always used a PCT such as Clomid or Nolva for that.
Since they sold all 3 products together and put it in a 'stack' I know that doesn't mean it's perfect.

My plan looks like this for the methylstenbolone: 5mg/10mg/10mg/5mg for 4 weeks. first week starting off with only 5mg.

Would I be able to run this 4 week cycle with everything that was in the 'stack' without a PCT such as Clomid or Nolva?

 

[Jebrook]

Hello,
I ended up purchasing a "Cycle Stack" from Europe that included the following:

1 bottle of Methylstenbolone (5mg per capsule)
1 bottle of Cycle Support that contains a decent amount of milk thristle
1 bottle of a PCT that contains 75mg per serving of Arimistane along with 800mg of L-Dopa (99%)

I have done cycles of injectable before and always used a PCT such as Clomid or Nolva for that.
Since they sold all 3 products together and put it in a 'stack' I know that doesn't mean it's perfect.

My plan looks like this for the methylstenbolone: 5mg/10mg/10mg/5mg for 4 weeks. first week starting off with only 5mg.

Would I be able to run this 4 week cycle with everything that was in the 'stack' without a PCT such as Clomid or Nolva?

No, you absolutely need a SERM for this cycle. Msten is pretty strong. I would also recommend you don't taper down at the end. 5/5/10/10 would be better. If you have more caps I would dose higher. I like Sten at 20-30 mg daily.

 

[unreal89]

I don't 5 -10mg msten is worth messing with go up to 15-30 for results and serm is a must but if u can't get more msten hold off..

 

[Eradicater]

Okay a couple questions...

I've been told by a couple people who regularly do cycles that a PCT is just to help you get your natural test-levels back to their levels faster than if you didn't take a PCT. You can still do a cycle without a PCT but your body will take a little longer to get back to the normal levels... I mean before the 90's didn't all bodybuilders take steroids without PCT's? I also recall GNC selling a popular pro-hormone about 8years called MAG10 or something like that which they took it off the shelf shortly after..Can you imagine all the people who purchased that and took it without a PCT....

Also, I have an extra bottle so 180 5mg capsules so I have enough to even do 30mg a day for 4 weeks and still have some left over.
I've heard so many different responses of people saying msten is so potent that it shouldn't be ran over 12 mgs and recommending a 4 week cycle of 8/8/12/12 and that anything over that would absolutely destroy my liver. others have said you have to run to at least 20 mgs...So what is it? lol

Will taking 20-25mg's a day instead of 10mg show a significant amount more muscle gains?

I'm basically just worried about getting gyno. . . Nobody wants that- but I hear getting gyno is pretty damn rare, especially with methystenbolone which doesn't convert into estrogen..So am I safe there?. I'm obviously wanting to start my cycle asap but I don't have a SERM available at the moment.

 

[Jebrook]

I don't 5 -10mg msten is worth messing with go up to 15-30 for results and serm is a must but if u can't get more msten hold off..

When Msten first came out the label recommendation was 8-12 mg years ago. As happens, people tend to dose higher and the recommendations raise accordingly. I think 10-15 mg would still elicit decent gains over 4-5 weeks and be very tolerable. For myself though, definitely 20-30 mg as I've used Msten a couple times already.

 

[Jebrook]

Okay a couple questions...

I've been told by a couple people who regularly do cycles that a PCT is just to help you get your natural test-levels back to their levels faster than if you didn't take a PCT. You can still do a cycle without a PCT but your body will take a little longer to get back to the normal levels... I mean before the 90's didn't all bodybuilders take steroids without PCT's? I also recall GNC selling a popular pro-hormone about 8years called MAG10 or something like that which they took it off the shelf shortly after..Can you imagine all the people who purchased that and took it without a PCT....

Also, I have an extra bottle so 180 5mg capsules so I have enough to even do 30mg a day for 4 weeks and still have some left over.
I've heard so many different responses of people saying msten is so potent that it shouldn't be ran over 12 mgs and recommending a 4 week cycle of 8/8/12/12 and that anything over that would absolutely destroy my liver. others have said you have to run to at least 20 mgs...So what is it? lol

Will taking 20-25mg's a day instead of 10mg show a significant amount more muscle gains?

I'm basically just worried about getting gyno. . . Nobody wants that- but I hear getting gyno is pretty damn rare, especially with methystenbolone which doesn't convert into estrogen..So am I safe there?. I'm obviously wanting to start my cycle asap but I don't have a SERM available at the moment.

At one point, when Msten was newer it was promoted as being as strong as SD and nearly as toxic. Having used it twice I would say probably not true. I think 4-5 weeks with a reasonable dose is completely fine. I would take a cycle support and at least 500 mg of TUDCA though. Since its your first run, try 10/20/20/20. And if all is going well you could run an additional week if you desired. I do think the difference between 10 and 20 would be appreciable. Sides are low at 20 mg. At 30 mg sides were noticeably higher but not unbearable nor did I have any signs of liver dysfunction. Yes, chance of this causing gyno are low but nothing is impossible with hormones. Just have the proper ancillaries on hand.

 

[Dma378]

People also forget that without a SERM to help their Test levels recover, means their gains go bye-bye in the meantime. How are you supposed to maintain all those new gains with tanked test levels? SIlly to not use a SERM.

 

[Jebrook]

People also forget that without a SERM to help their Test levels recover, means their gains go bye-bye in the meantime. How are you supposed to maintain all those new gains with tanked test levels? SIlly to not use a SERM.

^^^Totally agree with this. I forgot to address the pct part in my last post. Good catch DMA.

 

[yates84]

Hello,
I ended up purchasing a "Cycle Stack" from Europe that included the following:

1 bottle of Methylstenbolone (5mg per capsule)
1 bottle of Cycle Support that contains a decent amount of milk thristle
1 bottle of a PCT that contains 75mg per serving of Arimistane along with 800mg of L-Dopa (99%)

I have done cycles of injectable before and always used a PCT such as Clomid or Nolva for that.
Since they sold all 3 products together and put it in a 'stack' I know that doesn't mean it's perfect.

My plan looks like this for the methylstenbolone: 5mg/10mg/10mg/5mg for 4 weeks. first week starting off with only 5mg.

Would I be able to run this 4 week cycle with everything that was in the 'stack' without a PCT such as Clomid or Nolva?

I think you need to read this so you can see the importance of a serm for proper hpta recovery:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/276620-post-cycle-therapy.html

 

[booneman77]

There's is literally no reason to answer this thread with anything but: NO.

 

[brofessorx]

Injectable cycles to oral cycles.

Serm in pct to no serm in pct.......

Usually it's the other way around, and most don't want to go back.

Interesting.....

:smoker:

 

[T-Bone]

Injectable cycles to oral cycles.

Serm in pct to no serm in pct.......

Usually it's the other way around, and most don't want to go back.

Interesting.....

:smoker:

Maybe he is fibbing about using injects?. Maybe he thinks it will make people take him more seriously or something?. It's strange either way.

 

[AntM1564]

There's is literally no reason to answer this thread with anything but: NO.

No matter the compound, I think that could be said for any thread asking if a SERM should be ran PCT.

 

[brofessorx]

Maybe he is fibbing about using injects?. Maybe he thinks it will make people take him more seriously or something?. It's strange either way.

I was trying to be subtle about it :spankme:

 

[Eradicater]

I had to quit injectables due to the wife not liking the fact it's an "injectable" and she thinks it looks bad... (Yes, I know.. but the vagina is worth giving up on the injections lol) So it's all oral from here on out... I really miss sustanon and Tren. The Tren cough after injection not so much lol.

Okay, so I decided to say screw it and take the M-sten at 15/15/20/20 ... My PCT will be my Arimistine. I'm aware that after my cycle i'm going to crash pretty hard due to Test levels being low, but even with a SERM this happens. Serms just help recovery happen quicker. I'm going to log this crazy 4 week cycle and post cycle and let ya guys know how it went, how much muscle I gained, how much I was able to keep post cycle, sides, ect.

If sides hit me hard I will discontinue. If gyno starts to appear or my nipples start to get puffy or anything related I will quit right away.
Care to join me for my journey?

 

[T-Bone]

Ok so if you always used a SERM for PCT while you supposedly used injects, than why are you refusing to use it now?.

 

[B5150]

I had to quit injectables due to the wife not liking the fact it's an "injectable" and she thinks it looks bad... (Yes, I know.. but the vagina is worth giving up on the injections lol) So it's all oral from here on out...

I suspect that if you gave up Tren for the vagina you also haven't seen oral in a while

 

[Eradicater]

Ok so if you always used a SERM for PCT while you supposedly used injects, than why are you refusing to use it now?.

My old source for SERM's now has a 100.00 miniumum order policy. And i'm not trying to spend 100.00 on a SERM. And the other sources I know are all shipped out of the USA, which means unless I pay 30.00+ for trackable shipping it'll take 21-30days to arrive, so altogether it still gets close to the 100.00 price point for a damn Serm. I mean if I knew of a USA source that has nolva or clomid in pill form I'd be ordering some right now..I don't want liquid form.

 

[booneman77]

I had to quit injectables due to the wife not liking the fact it's an "injectable" and she thinks it looks bad... (Yes, I know.. but the vagina is worth giving up on the injections lol) So it's all oral from here on out... I really miss sustanon and Tren. The Tren cough after injection not so much lol.

Okay, so I decided to say screw it and take the M-sten at 15/15/20/20 ... My PCT will be my Arimistine. I'm aware that after my cycle i'm going to crash pretty hard due to Test levels being low, but even with a SERM this happens. Serms just help recovery happen quicker. I'm going to log this crazy 4 week cycle and post cycle and let ya guys know how it went, how much muscle I gained, how much I was able to keep post cycle, sides, ect.

If sides hit me hard I will discontinue. If gyno starts to appear or my nipples start to get puffy or anything related I will quit right away.
Care to join me for my journey?

Well, since clearly you just don't want to listen anyways, I'll just say what we're all thinking:

You're a dumbass and the reason why things get banned and people get hurt by abusing these things. I hope no one follows along because it's literally going to be like watching a trainwreck and knowing you can't help.

I wish you the best of luck, but expect to see a new thread posting about your awful experience, assuming you even make it through with enough dignity or humility to even post here.

 

[brofessorx]

I had to quit injectables due to the wife not liking the fact it's an "injectable" and she thinks it looks bad... (Yes, I know.. but the vagina is worth giving up on the injections lol) So it's all oral from here on out... I really miss sustanon and Tren. The Tren cough after injection not so much lol.

Okay, so I decided to say screw it and take the M-sten at 15/15/20/20 ... My PCT will be my Arimistine. I'm aware that after my cycle i'm going to crash pretty hard due to Test levels being low, but even with a SERM this happens. Serms just help recovery happen quicker. I'm going to log this crazy 4 week cycle and post cycle and let ya guys know how it went, how much muscle I gained, how much I was able to keep post cycle, sides, ect.

If sides hit me hard I will discontinue. If gyno starts to appear or my nipples start to get puffy or anything related I will quit right away.
Care to join me for my journey?

via Imgflip Meme Maker

 

[Eradicater]

Well, since clearly you just don't want to listen anyways, I'll just say what we're all thinking:

You're a dumbass and the reason why things get banned and people get hurt by abusing these things. I hope no one follows along because it's literally going to be like watching a trainwreck and knowing you can't help.

I wish you the best of luck, but expect to see a new thread posting about your awful experience, assuming you even make it through with enough dignity or humility to even post here.

Thanks bro

you're the dumbass if you're thinking people are going to get hurt by not taking a PCT. I'll just feel like **** and it'll take longer to get my hormones back up. Sounds like you need an Estrogen Blocker lol.. You're very uptight and emotional.

 

[linuxjon]

My old source for SERM's now has a 100.00 miniumum order policy. And i'm not trying to spend 100.00 on a SERM. And the other sources I know are all shipped out of the USA, which means unless I pay 30.00+ for trackable shipping it'll take 21-30days to arrive, so altogether it still gets close to the 100.00 price point for a damn Serm. I mean if I knew of a USA source that has nolva or clomid in pill form I'd be ordering some right now..I don't want liquid form.

It literally boggles my mind that someone would play games with their health- when the entire thing is an optional, recreational pursuit in the first place- over $100

 

[booneman77]

Thanks bro

you're the dumbass if you're thinking people are going to get hurt by not taking a PCT. I'll just feel like **** and it'll take longer to get my hormones back up. Sounds like you need an Estrogen Blocker lol.. You're very uptight and emotional.

So wait, you're telling me that by not pcting, and feeing like "shiit", and losing everything you just worked to gain, while taxing your entire body inside and out, and... IF your hormones ever come back naturally (which some do not, and many do but not anywhere close to before the cycle), that you would consider that a success or not having hurt yourself? Because that just seems dumb to me, but apparently wanting to keep my gains, hormones, and overall health makes me uptight and emotional. Better get me some arimistane to control my raging estrogen since its soooooo strong. Derp

 

[yates84]

What's an estrogen blocker? Lol

 

[smith_69]

[video=youtube;OSiLOD7pzv8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSiLOD7pzv8[/video]

its like this

 

[napalm]

Thanks bro

you're the dumbass if you're thinking people are going to get hurt by not taking a PCT. I'll just feel like **** and it'll take longer to get my hormones back up. Sounds like you need an Estrogen Blocker lol.. You're very uptight and emotional.

I've read some pretty stupid shyt in my years on this forum.

This is the stupidest...

 

[Darlz]

Thanks bro

you're the dumbass if you're thinking people are going to get hurt by not taking a PCT. I'll just feel like **** and it'll take longer to get my hormones back up. Sounds like you need an Estrogen Blocker lol.. You're very uptight and emotional.

I think it is pretty obvious this is some stupid kid.. I mean why else would you come here asking for advice, and then when everyone in the forum tells you that your logic is completely wrong and backwards, you actually argue that everyone else is wrong and your right. Thats on some Bobby Boucher/Water boy ****. "M-m-m-m-Mommas right and your wrong". Im gonna explain why you are wrong Eradicater. While you think that you will "just feel like **** and will take longer to get my hormones back up", what will also happen is you will lose pretty much ALL of your gains from using the Msten. Which makes doing the actually cycle pretty friggin stupid unless you just wanna look buff for a couple weeks. You will lose all your gains because, upon taking Msten, your natural testosterone levels will drop. The anabolic compound will keep you building muscle but the minute you stop, well now your left with minimal test levels and without a serm, it will take your body months to recover. While you are recovering, your Test levels are still minimal, so your body will lose whatever the Msten did. Thats why people take Serms. Because your body cant maintain muscle with no test levels. But do what you want. Personally, I dont think anyone of us is gonna cry about it. Its your body. Just dont be upset wont your right back to where you started.

 

[T-Bone]

But he's gonna use a T booster for PCT.

 

[money0351]

I'm going to log this crazy 4 week cycle and post cycle and let ya guys know how it went, how much muscle I gained, how much I was able to keep post cycle, sides, ect.

If sides hit me hard I will discontinue. If gyno starts to appear or my nipples start to get puffy or anything related I will quit right away.
Care to join me for my journey?

Please log this crazy cycle! I will definitely follow! And if you do start showing signs of gyno that would suck... If only there was some sort of selective estrogen receptor modulator one could take to prevent things like this... Hmmmmmm

 

[Darlz]

Please log this crazy cycle! I will definitely follow! And if you do start showing signs of gyno that would suck... If only there was some sort of selective estrogen receptor modulator one could take to prevent things like this... Hmmmmmm

Duh you mean like an "estrogen blocker".. lol

 

[K_pem]

Did anyone ever consider the possibility this guy is just trolling us all hard? Lol

 

[MMAguy]

Thanks bro

you're the dumbass if you're thinking people are going to get hurt by not taking a PCT. I'll just feel like **** and it'll take longer to get my hormones back up. Sounds like you need an Estrogen Blocker lol.. You're very uptight and emotional.

you sir, are a jackass.

 

[MMAguy]

Did anyone ever consider the possibility this guy is just trolling us all hard? Lol

Its probably some teenager who abused something and ended up getting bitch tits & now he is mad at the world Lol.

 

[brofessorx]

This is not the bottom of the ocean, I repeat, not the bottom of the ocean!

Why don't you take your clams and whammy's an get the hell outta here!

-gutter mouth,

 

[contro]

LOL

 

[contro]

Btw I just got a copy of the book "anabolics" and it says that natty test levels return to baseline after 1-4months WITHOUT intervention, depending on the lemgth of the cycle I.e. How long his endogenous test was suppressed by the exogenous hormone. So tbh I think he will be fine. Might lose some gains in the month or two that he's shutdown after the cycle but according to the book persistent hypogonadism is something that happens when you are onheavy doses for longer time than you are off. That being said I would still recommend nolva pct but tbh it's not MANDATORY it's just recommended

 

[Darlz]

Btw I just got a copy of the book "anabolics" and it says that natty test levels return to baseline after 1-4months WITHOUT intervention, depending on the lemgth of the cycle I.e. How long his endogenous test was suppressed by the exogenous hormone. So tbh I think he will be fine. Might lose some gains in the month or two that he's shutdown after the cycle but according to the book persistent hypogonadism is something that happens when you are onheavy doses for longer time than you are off. That being said I would still recommend nolva pct but tbh it's not MANDATORY it's just recommended

Whats the sense of doing the cycle if you are gonna lose all your gains in the month or two after you take it....

 

[brofessorx]

Cause for those couple of months you'll be swoll an feeling like a BEAST!

Coming back to reality does suck though. I'd imagine more so without the aid of other ancillaries

 

[MMAguy]

Btw I just got a copy of the book "anabolics" and it says that natty test levels return to baseline after 1-4months WITHOUT intervention, depending on the lemgth of the cycle I.e. How long his endogenous test was suppressed by the exogenous hormone. So tbh I think he will be fine. Might lose some gains in the month or two that he's shutdown after the cycle but according to the book persistent hypogonadism is something that happens when you are onheavy doses for longer time than you are off. That being said I would still recommend nolva pct but tbh it's not MANDATORY it's just recommended

A SERM such as nolva is usually taken so the person can reduce the chances of getting gyno. It's also important to have in case gyno shows its ugly face so you can combat it.

 

[linuxjon]

Btw I just got a copy of the book "anabolics" and it says that natty test levels return to baseline after 1-4months WITHOUT intervention, depending on the lemgth of the cycle I.e. How long his endogenous test was suppressed by the exogenous hormone. So tbh I think he will be fine. Might lose some gains in the month or two that he's shutdown after the cycle but according to the book persistent hypogonadism is something that happens when you are onheavy doses for longer time than you are off. That being said I would still recommend nolva pct but tbh it's not MANDATORY it's just recommended

The question was never "is this going to completely shut down his test levels forever and/or kill him".

The question was if he'd end up in a situation where he wishes he'd never done the cycle in the first place. Which, IMO, is almost certain.

 

[MMAguy]

The question was never "is this going to completely shut down his test levels forever and/or kill him".

The question was if he'd end up in a situation where he wishes he'd never done the cycle in the first place. Which, IMO, is almost certain.

I agree. Also if gyno symptoms appear he will be screwed by not having a SERM handy.

 

[B5150]

A SERM such as nolva is usually taken so the person can reduce the chances of getting gyno. It's also important to have in case gyno shows its ugly face so you can combat it.

I agree. Also if gyno symptoms appear he will be screwed by not having a SERM handy.

its is a very poor choice and ineffective. You use Letro in those instances.

 

[MMAguy]

Interesting

 

[MMAguy]

I've heard Nolva just blocks estrogen and doesn't lower it so what's the whole point of nolva if it doesn't prevent/treat gyno?

 

[B5150]

It is certainly effective for gyno. Nolva is the best IMO

ok.

 

[MMAguy]

So what does Nolva do for someone David? I'm open minded

 

[B5150]

Remember that SERMs are used for beast cancer treatment

"As their name says, SERMs are "selective" – this means that a SERM that blocks estrogen's action in breast cells can activate estrogen's action in other cells, such as bone, liver, and uterine cells"

An AI stops aromatization completely, eliminating circulating estrogen entirely.

 

[Bartmac36]

I ran a cycle a while back of msten at 20mg a day for 4 weeks and used BLR REBIRTH and INHIBIT E as my SERM/AI combo. I also used PCT BLACK as well.

I seem to have recovered just fine and kept pretty much all my strength gains, which was my main goal over size. My libido and energy levels are perfectly intact to what im used to as well.

Im not saying anyone that strongly urges a SERM is wrong, but i also know saying its 100% necessary is more bro science than it is fact.

If anything they are important for keeping gains rather than anything health related i find, but thats only in reference to MSTEN which is a non-aromatizing compound.

If i were to run something wet like 4-andro or test (injectables) i would definitely think differently but for msten not so much.

 

[B5150]

I ran a cycle a while back of msten at 20mg a day for 4 weeks and used BLR REBIRTH and INHIBIT E as my SERM/AI combo. I also used PCT BLACK as well.

I seem to have recovered just fine and kept pretty much all my strength gains, which was my main goal over size. My libido and energy levels are perfectly intact to what im used to as well.

Im not saying anyone that strongly urges a SERM is wrong, but i also know saying its 100% necessary is more bro science than it is fact.

If anything they are important for keeping gains rather than anything health related i find, but thats only in reference to MSTEN which is a non-aromatizing compound.

If i were to run something wet like 4-andro or test (injectables) i would definitely think differently but for msten not so much.

The thing is that prescription drugs like SERMs have studies to support that they act on LH, FSH and on the hypothalamus and stimulate the heightened release of GnRH where as OTC manufacturer's products don't nor wont any time soon if ever.

 

[MMAguy]

So why exactly do people take nolva then instead of an AI? What does Nolva do for you since it doesn't lower estrogen?