Next Cycle Planning - Please share your input. Epistane + LMG

saywutrly

saywutrly

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Hey brothers! ...and sisters? I have been researching and collecting DS and PH compounds as I prepare for my next cycle (or next few cycles how I'm stockpiling. I like variety, and I don't like to find out something I want isn't able to be obtained at a given time.) I have already been made aware of the need to wait in homeostasis as long as my previous cycle + PCT. At the current time, I am finished with a clomid/nolva combo PCT and am just running MK-677. I haven't been able to get bloods yet as I'm dealing with a large medical bill from when I was between insurance coverage periods due to a job change and it isn't an "urgent matter" because the doctor says I am "healthy." Apparently when you owe them money, you can't tell them you want elective bloodwork done. That said, my mood is level, my gains have stayed on and kept increasing all through PCT (MK-677 also run through PCT). Libido is solid, and the resultant amount thereof is increasing.

I am 5' 11" 190lbs +/- 2lbs in the morning. I have been trying to lean bulk, but have gained a little fat. My abs still show, however, including the middle split, so my BF can't be too awful. I can post a pic if needed. I train 1.5-4 hours a day, depending on available time. I hit legs every 3 to 4 days. Goals for this cycle will be to continue lean bulking and to increase strength first and size second, especially in the arms. I'd like them to catch up with my legs/shoulders/chest. It would be nice to gain 20lbs over this cycle, but if I am seeing PRs on a regular basis, I won't be disappointed if it is a bit less.

For my next cycle, I have read so much conflicting information about this stack that I want to get the advice of the good folks here. I had originally thought that this might be too heavy on prolactin sides, but I've decided that Prami should be enough to combat that (please give any dosing recommendations or alternate compounds). If all goes well, this I was thinking of this six week cycle and 4-week PCT:

Max-LMG 75/75/75/100/100/100
Epistane 30/30/30/40/40/40
Torem PCT weeks7-11 60/60/30/30

I will have A-dex on hand for estro sides, and have read that it is also a good idea to take it after finishing PCT to avoid rebound gyno due to the epistane. What would one recommend for the post-PCT dosing?

Support protocol is as follows:
Optimum Nutrition Opti-Men multivitamin
Vitamin C 1000mg
Turmeric 300mg extract + 100mg powder
B-complex vitamin in afternoon
Multi-strain probiotic complex (2x per day)
Fish Oil - 647mg EPA, 253mg DHA (2x per day)
Turmeric 300mg extract + 100mg powder
GABA 200mg + 1200mg inositol
5-HTP 100mg
Ginger root 550mg
Chromium Picolinate 500mcg
ALA 200mg (2-3x per day)

Purus Labs Organ Shield (AM) + Lecheek Cycle Armor (PM) for good blend of support. These provide the following when combined:
Milk Thistle 660mg
NAC 500mg
Saw Palmetto 400mg
Pygeum Bark 100mg
Hawthorne Berry Extract 160mg
Celery Seed Extract 100mg
Soy Seed Extract (min 40% beta-sitosterol) 250mg
ALA 150mg
Quercetin 150mg
CoQ10 100mg

Additional supplementation:
Creatine Glycerol Phosphate 15g/day/training days
Creatine Magnesium Chelate 1.5g/day/training days
Whichever PWO fits my cycling of stims and nitrates
Beta Alanine 4g/day/training days
Purus Labs EAA blend
Metabolic Nutrition BCAAs
MTS Carb 10 or Karbolyn 100g/day/training days

Thank you for sticking with me this long. I know that I post a lot of information when I do this, but I like to be sure when it comes to my body. I've invested a lot of years of clean eating and healthy habits and skipping the social scene of drinking. I don't want to throw that away to one improperly planned DS cycle. Anyway, to recap, what is everyone's input on the cycle length, dosages, possible additions (perhaps 4-andro as a test base?), dosages on the PCT torem and a-dex, and support protocol? Thank you all in advance!
 
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DozerDean

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Just out of curiosity how much is your supplement budget each month? To me it seems like too much stuff to be ingested that mostly makes only expensive urin. Spend that money on quality food instead! As for the cycle it seems like fun and simple oral cycle. A wet compound and a dry. Pct looks good.
 
saywutrly

saywutrly

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Just out of curiosity how much is your supplement budget each month? To me it seems like too much stuff to be ingested that mostly makes only expensive urin. Spend that money on quality food instead! As for the cycle it seems like fun and simple oral cycle. A wet compound and a dry. Pct looks good.
I shop sales, bargain hunt, and buy bulk. The vitamins/minerals, 5-HTP and GABA I've taken for years. For the actual "supps" they were all products from which I noticed a difference before I started using anabolics. Anyway, going by my last few months, $200-300US. To be completely honest, I used to have a drug problem from which I have recovered. Comparatively, this is pretty cheap.

That said, I also allocate adequate funds for large quantities of wholesome food. For example, my ground beef is $5.50/lb fresh from the farm's butcher, but it supports the local economy and is fully pastured/grassfed, so there's so little fat that you don't even drain the pan when you make sauce or seasoned meat. It's just all good, whole protein.

Anyway, what do you think is not benefiting and is only creating expensive urine? I'm always open to new information and saving money.
 
DozerDean

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That's a good deal on the beef. I pay almost that for ground turkey. As for the supps I could never tell they did much for me so I take only a multi, vitamin D and fish oil. The expensive urin thing was a Sheldon quote from the big bang theory haha. Also, the lmg you will hold some water so the creatine might be something you want to save for pct. Cycle on brother
 
saywutrly

saywutrly

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That's a good deal on the beef. I pay almost that for ground turkey. As for the supps I could never tell they did much for me so I take only a multi, vitamin D and fish oil. The expensive urin thing was a Sheldon quote from the big bang theory haha. Also, the lmg you will hold some water so the creatine might be something you want to save for pct. Cycle on brother
Haha! Sheldon is hilarious. And 10-4 on the creatine. The MK-677 is also known to make one hold water. Do you think that I should take a break on that during the cycle and jump back on for PCT?
 
BamBam0319

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When I took prohormones I never knew about a "test base" and I was always fine. You could include 4 andro, might give you some extra gains and keep you feeling good.
I use creatine on cycle, in PCT, and off cycle. I see no reason to cycle it or avoid it but that's just me.
MK 677 I would run through your entire cycle, through pct, and afterwards as well. It's best run for a long time. Honestly if you can afford it I'd run it for a year straight lol, I stocked up and will be doing that.
Adex is fine post cycle but aromasin is a better AI for post cycle because you won't get a rebound effect, since it's a suicidal inhibitor.
You definitely won't be having any health issues with all those support supps..
Max LMG is a progestin based compound though right? You should be fine if you keep your estrogen under control but it may be a good idea to have some inhibit-P in case prolactin becomes an issue.
Looks like a great cycle though, you should see some good results.
Eat eat eat
 
saywutrly

saywutrly

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When I took prohormones I never knew about a "test base" and I was always fine. You could include 4 andro, might give you some extra gains and keep you feeling good.
I use creatine on cycle, in PCT, and off cycle. I see no reason to cycle it or avoid it but that's just me.
MK 677 I would run through your entire cycle, through pct, and afterwards as well. It's best run for a long time. Honestly if you can afford it I'd run it for a year straight lol, I stocked up and will be doing that.
Adex is fine post cycle but aromasin is a better AI for post cycle because you won't get a rebound effect, since it's a suicidal inhibitor.
You definitely won't be having any health issues with all those support supps..
Max LMG is a progestin based compound though right? You should be fine if you keep your estrogen under control but it may be a good idea to have some inhibit-P in case prolactin becomes an issue.
Looks like a great cycle though, you should see some good results.
Eat eat eat
I've been running the MK for a couple of months--started when I started PCT for my last cycle, so I will keep on that. Correct that LMG is a progestin. I was going to pick up Pramiprexole for the prolactin sides. Do you think that's overkill and that I should go for the Inhibit-P instead? How do you identify prolactin side effects? I tried searching and could only come up with ways to combat them, but not to identify them.

And yes, tons of support supps. I am preloading all the cycle support but take all the vitamins/supplements in the first list on a regular basis. I'm one of those who believes that the general environment we've created in this world is bad enough for us that we need to supplement to help our bodies handle it appropriately.
 
BamBam0319

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I've been running the MK for a couple of months--started when I started PCT for my last cycle, so I will keep on that. Correct that LMG is a progestin. I was going to pick up Pramiprexole for the prolactin sides. Do you think that's overkill and that I should go for the Inhibit-P instead? How do you identify prolactin side effects? I tried searching and could only come up with ways to combat them, but not to identify them.

And yes, tons of support supps. I am preloading all the cycle support but take all the vitamins/supplements in the first list on a regular basis. I'm one of those who believes that the general environment we've created in this world is bad enough for us that we need to supplement to help our bodies handle it appropriately.
Yeah I love MK.
Pramipexole would be fine but inhibit P will probably work just fine if you keep your estrogen in check. I'm not sure how to identify it either, which is why I usually just use a prolactin blocker regardless when taking compounds that can have an effect on it.

Agreed on the support supps though man. A good diet helps a lot but I think it's good to have all your bases covered.
 
saywutrly

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Bump to make sure everyone agrees that the Inhibit P is good to go for this or if I should keep some prami on hand also?

As far as estro will 1/2mg of Adex EOD be enough? Or should I run the aromasin all cycle in addition to PCT and skip the adex all together?
 
rascal14

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Inhibit P should be fine. It worked for me on Oral Tren at 135mg a day.
 
saywutrly

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Inhibit P should be fine. It worked for me on Oral Tren at 135mg a day.
Thanks, brother. A first hand account all ways helps. I'll have plenty of it around. Would you recommend adex on cycle and then aromasin after just for prevention of rebound gyno, or aromasin all the way through?
 
rascal14

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Thanks, brother. A first hand account all ways helps. I'll have plenty of it around. Would you recommend adex on cycle and then aromasin after just for prevention of rebound gyno, or aromasin all the way through?
That's how I did it for my most recent cycle. Aromasin is fine on cycle, too. I would stick with Aromasin in PCT rather than Arimidex, though. I believe Aromasin helps with recovery.

So Aromasin in PCT and either one for on cycle.
 

bradray5871

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Looks like a fun cycle, multi, vit c, vit d3 and fish oil are staples imo, but caber or prami is def a good idea to have on hand. LMG is one i haven't ran myself, but epistane will probably keep things in check. Prolactin can sneak up on you quick, so it is good to have the right things in hand to combat any sides you might get.

I ran a trenazone + trenavar cycle a couple years ago and got some lumps real quick, but i jumped on a gram of vit c, 3 caps erase a day and 12.5 exem twice a week and had it under control within 30 days ( almost completely gone. Awesome cycle though
 
saywutrly

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Thanks bradray5871 (glad you got those lumps under control) and rascal14. I'll get some prami when I order my torem, adex, and aromasin just so I have it in case. I'll always run a gram of vit c a day while on cycle anyway and I'll run the inhibit P.

Only thing is I thought I saw somewhere that you can't run 5HTP alongside Inhibit P. I thought that one affected serotonin and one affected dopamine so I don't see how it would matter. Has anyone else heard this?
 
rascal14

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I would have known a couple months ago, I'll see what I can find. What do you use 5htp for specifically?
 
saywutrly

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I would have known a couple months ago, I'll see what I can find. What do you use 5htp for specifically?
I have been using it for years to avoid SSRIs for anxiety and mild depression. It works wonders and I would hate to quit taking it.
 
rascal14

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I have been using it for years to avoid SSRIs for anxiety and mild depression. It works wonders and I would hate to quit taking it.
Have you heard of or tried Kratom?

I think 5htp should be fine.
 
saywutrly

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Have you heard of or tried Kratom?

I think 5htp should be fine.
I have extensive pain issues from being hit by a truck at 13; kratom and I are great friends. I disagree with its use for depression and anxiety, however. While it is much less addictive, it still builds tolerance like any opioid.
 
saywutrly

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I just started my cycle last night. So far, I feel like a boss, but is the sweating due to the LMG? It's a tren relative, so I figured it might explain this pouring sweat for no reason at all haha.
 
rascal14

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I just started my cycle last night. So far, I feel like a boss, but is the sweating due to the LMG? It's a tren relative, so I figured it might explain this pouring sweat for no reason at all haha.
Normally I wouldn't think anything would happen that quickly.
 
saywutrly

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Normally I wouldn't think anything would happen that quickly.
Must just be hot in here today. Perhaps someone left the heat on. We are having that weird Midwest back-and-forth spring weather where it can't decide if it's winter or summer.
 
rascal14

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Must just be hot in here today. Perhaps someone left the heat on. We are having that weird Midwest back-and-forth spring weather where it can't decide if it's winter or summer.
Where do you live? We finally just got over that here in Oklahoma lol

I've never ran LMG before so maybe it does work quickly.
 

njt11

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Where do you live? We finally just got over that here in Oklahoma lol

I've never ran LMG before so maybe it does work quickly.
Max LMG hit me like a freight train around week 3. Watch your water retention on Max LMG, stuff had me looking like the Michellin Man for the last 3 weeks of my cycle but the weight/strength gains were tremendous.
 
saywutrly

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Perhaps if Jebrook has an extra moment he can let us know how quickly it kicks in. That man is a walking, talking PH/DS encyclopedia.

I'm in WI so we are still going through it. Typical for this time of year. And as the old joke goes; get out of here, winter, you're drunk.
 
saywutrly

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Max LMG hit me like a freight train around week 3. Watch your water retention on Max LMG, stuff had me looking like the Michellin Man for the last 3 weeks of my cycle but the weight/strength gains were tremendous.
That's a pretty long accumulation period. Thanks for letting me know on that. And yes I'm hoping that the epistane keeps it more dry. I've read that the two tend to balance one another well.
 

njt11

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That's a pretty long accumulation period. Thanks for letting me know on that. And yes I'm hoping that the epistane keeps it more dry. I've read that the two tend to balance one another well.
It wasn't that I didn't feel anything in week 2, more just the "on" feeling was there in full week 3. I ran it with Prostanozol to keep libido/lethargy/retention at bay, wasn't enough last 2 weeks. I'm going to follow and see how you finish out, enjoy the gains - Max LMG is good stuff.
 
saywutrly

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It wasn't that I didn't feel anything in week 2, more just the "on" feeling was there in full week 3. I ran it with Prostanozol to keep libido/lethargy/retention at bay, wasn't enough last 2 weeks. I'm going to follow and see how you finish out, enjoy the gains - Max LMG is good stuff.
I've heard great things so that's reassuring. It's the old LGI stuff so quality should be on point. Are you saying I should count on it to kill my libido?
 
dave39

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Thanks, brother. A first hand account all ways helps. I'll have plenty of it around. Would you recommend adex on cycle and then aromasin after just for prevention of rebound gyno, or aromasin all the way through?
An AI is not required in PCT.
Some choose to utilize one but others don't. I wouldn't get to caught up until you learn what your body needs.
 
saywutrly

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An AI is not required in PCT.
Some choose to utilize one but others don't. I wouldn't get to caught up until you learn what your body needs.
So you would recommend to have the aromasin on-hand for PCT in case, but not use it by default, and then just pay attention to the nips?
 

njt11

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I've heard great things so that's reassuring. It's the old LGI stuff so quality should be on point. Are you saying I should count on it to kill my libido?
It certainly roughed mine up a bit. Did not inhibit ability to perform, but rather only the desire to do so.
 
saywutrly

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It certainly roughed mine up a bit. Did not inhibit ability to perform, but rather only the desire to do so.
I asked earlier about a test base but not many people were looking at the thread at that time. I probably posted at a bad time of day or something. Perhaps a test base would help with some of those issues. I have some trest on hand, but I thought it a poor idea to add another methyl or another wet compound to this cycle.
 
Jebrook

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Perhaps if Jebrook has an extra moment he can let us know how quickly it kicks in. That man is a walking, talking PH/DS encyclopedia.

I'm in WI so we are still going through it. Typical for this time of year. And as the old joke goes; get out of here, winter, you're drunk.
Thanks for the tag and the compliment saywutrly. You are too kind. I just got caught up on this thread. Your plans looks on point. I have a few thoughts:
1. Yes, it is too early for the compounds to be "kicked in" and working(building muscle), but the introduction of them into your body begins immediate physiological changes. So it is possible to "feel" it immediately in a sense. Just like anything we ingest. So, the sweating could be just your body getting used to the new additions or maybe it's just a coincidence. I wouldn't label it a side effect of the compounds unless it persists. I know I always feel a bit "keyed" up for a few days when trying new anabolics.
2. Good call on prolactin control. Definitely start Inhibit P at label dose from the jump and keep Prami as a back up. Inhibit should do the trick though.
3. I wouldn't use the AI on cycle with Epistane unless symptoms dictate the necessity. The characteristics of Epistane will likely help mitigate any estrogen hopefully. Prolactin would be the bigger concern IMO. Use the AI on cycle if needed and definitely for PCT. I'd use the Exem.
4. Question for you. Why did you decided to choose Torem?
 

njt11

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I asked earlier about a test base but not many people were looking at the thread at that time. I probably posted at a bad time of day or something. Perhaps a test base would help with some of those issues. I have some trest on hand, but I thought it a poor idea to add another methyl or another wet compound to this cycle.
Maybe try something like some epiandro and Dermacrine? Much less taxing. Trest/LMG/Epistane is pretty hardcore IMO.
 
saywutrly

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Thanks for the tag and the compliment saywutrly. You are too kind. I just got caught up on this thread. Your plans looks on point. I have a few thoughts:
1. Yes, it is too early for the compounds to be "kicked in" and working(building muscle), but the introduction of them into your body begins immediate physiological changes. So it is possible to "feel" it immediately in a sense. Just like anything we ingest. So, the sweating could be just your body getting used to the new additions or maybe it's just a coincidence. I wouldn't label it a side effect of the compounds unless it persists. I know I always feel a bit "keyed" up for a few days when trying new anabolics.
2. Good call on prolactin control. Definitely start Inhibit P at label dose from the jump and keep Prami as a back up. Inhibit should do the trick though.
3. I wouldn't use the AI on cycle with Epistane unless symptoms dictate the necessity. The characteristics of Epistane will likely help mitigate any estrogen hopefully. Prolactin would be the bigger concern IMO. Use the AI on cycle if needed and definitely for PCT. I'd use the Exem.
4. Question for you. Why did you decided to choose Torem?
No problem, brother. Your guide you posted was great help in planning this cycle. I chose the torem because of reading that it was less likely to be carcinogenic, bore less tendency to aggravate prolactin levels, and had potential to perform better than the clomid/nolva combo I ran after my 4/epi-andro cycle. Since the general consensus seemed to be that they were all at least adequate, I thought I'd see for myself. What's your take on it?
 
Audioph1x

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I liked Epistane and LMG a lot. I remember getting a little bloated, even with the epi it was still kind of wet overall. Can't comment on trest because I've never been on it, but trest and LMG just seems like a bad idea.
 
Jebrook

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I liked Epistane and LMG a lot. I remember getting a little bloated, even with the epi it was still kind of wet overall. Can't comment on trest because I've never been on it, but trest and LMG just seems like a bad idea.
^^^Agreed. No Bueno :boobies:
 
Jebrook

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No problem, brother. Your guide you posted was great help in planning this cycle. I chose the torem because of reading that it was less likely to be carcinogenic, bore less tendency to aggravate prolactin levels, and had potential to perform better than the clomid/nolva combo I ran after my 4/epi-andro cycle. Since the general consensus seemed to be that they were all at least adequate, I thought I'd see for myself. What's your take on it?
I've never used it so I can't offer any insights on its effectiveness. It isn't that popular on this board so I haven't seen many anecdotes. Was curious. I've read pretty much the same info on it as you. Would be interesting to find blood work on it for effectiveness at HPTA restart. Will be interested in how it treats you.
 
saywutrly

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I've never used it so I can't offer any insights on its effectiveness. It isn't that popular on this board so I haven't seen many anecdotes. Was curious. I've read pretty much the same info on it as you. Would be interesting to find blood work on it for effectiveness at HPTA restart. Will be interested in how it treats you.
Perhaps I will refrain from picking MK677 back up until after PCT so I can log my PCT do the common good. I figured logging the cycle wasn't necessary because they are pretty common compounds.
 
Audioph1x

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Perhaps I will refrain from picking MK677 back up until after PCT so I can log my PCT do the common good. I figured logging the cycle wasn't necessary because they are pretty common compounds.
Bro, it's PCT!! Use every weapon in your arsenal haha
 
jwinak82

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So you would recommend to have the aromasin on-hand for PCT in case, but not use it by default, and then just pay attention to the nipsI like to have a little of everything on hand just to be safe.
 
BamBam0319

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Must just be hot in here today. Perhaps someone left the heat on. We are having that weird Midwest back-and-forth spring weather where it can't decide if it's winter or summer.
You mean that **** that's been happening for 3 months already? Lol and even all throughout winter honestly
 
saywutrly

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Bro, it's PCT!! Use every weapon in your arsenal haha
Then I shall. Onward!

Not trying to but in late, I like to have a little of everything on hand just to be safe.
Never too late and I agree with you. I already had the adex, so I'm using as my emergency AI, with the exem on the way with my MK.

You mean that **** that's been happening for 3 months already? Lol and even all throughout winter honestly
Yes, this, which is why I even brought up the profuse sweating. I was already acclimated to the ridiculous weather.
 
saywutrly

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What does the collective say about bumping up the doses where I originally planned for day 21? I'm 10 days in now and it's been very well tolerated. I would just like the opinion of some folks who are more experienced than I.
 
dave39

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What does the collective say about bumping up the doses where I originally planned for day 21? I'm 10 days in now and it's been very well tolerated. I would just like the opinion of some folks who are more experienced than I.
You're still early in the cycle but it's up to you man. Some will say go ahead and bump it now, others will say wait it out. Just because your body is not showing negative impact from the PH doesn't mean it isn't working in it's sweet spot for you.
Some people think they need to increase their dosages until they start feeling negative side effects, that's a great way to hurt yourself. The goal of PEDs is to use as little as possible to increase natural gains.

TLDR- it's up to you, it's your cycle and your body, we are all different
 

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