Convince me not to run epistane again

[dman1]

I thought about running epistane again after my first cycle of havoc(from ebay lmao stupidity) a few months ago which may have been bunk this time from a legit uk olympus labs retailer
( dont know if im allowed to mention its name as this may be sourcing but if its against the rules write me a pm if you want to know which site)
because i liked that it shrank my gyno and the fact that i trained harder and adhered to my diet more because i was on cycle and had to make it count and i ended up close to the best shape of my life, about as strong as i was when i was 16/17( i lifted since i was 13 or 14 like a maniac in an effort to get rid of my pubertal gyno lol) but i weigh now 210 instead of 195 which i attribute to some medications im on right now that cause weight gain and increased appetitie(non liver toxic)
I was going to run it at 45mg week 1 60 week 2 and 3 45 week 4 30 week 5 and 15 week 6(tapering down to prevent the nasty estrogen rebound that supposedly comes from epi) then pct with sup3r pct and nolva would have been my second cycle.
i was advised against running epistane by some experienced folks here because i am 19 but i already ordered my epi a several days ago and it has been shipped so idk if i can pull out at this point since i already invested 60$ and about 3 years of research in this and i may have already ran a cycle of epi at a pretty high dose at that and turned out just fine so what harm is a second one at a lower dose going to do?.

Right now, after taking Blergs and yates84 advice i am leaning towards not running it and saving the epi or selling it depending on whether or not the expiration date is far enough away so i can still use it by the time i feel ready to run hormones.

But im not 100% convinced that going through with the cycle is actually going to mess me up for life

so please guys convince me not to do this

I WILL LISTEN TO REASON AND SCIENCE and i respect your opinions.
Also
if there is a thread or some serious articles with scientific backing about the assertion that people just under 20 shouldnt use gear please link it i am very interested in the topic and common sense is telling me since your body recovers from any other damage(smoking induced damage somewhat reverses itself if you quit before 35-40, any type of wound heals faster when young, muscle recovery from workouts, some illnesses pass quicker when young)

why wouldnt my body recover fast from an epistane cycle? i have specifically heard that people that cycle often start cruising on test at around age 30 because they start having trouble recovering from their cycles after PCT

 

[dman1]

ok i formatted my post/question and bolded the important stuff so that it is easier to skim

 

[Toren]

Running another cycle right now would be foolish. You have been given good advice if you are being told to abstain from steroids and deal with your gyno first. Consider this, person A runs 500mg of Test per week for 12 weeks and does not need to use an aromatase inhibitor. Person A then runs another cycle 6 months later, also with 500mg Test per week, and has problems with gyno. It can and does happen all the time and no this is not just related to Testosterone usage. This can happen with PHs and designer steroids as well. Just because you were "successful" the 1st time does not mean you will be again. I will also tell you that the more you play with your hormones, the more susceptible you will be to having hormonal imbalances. This is a fact!

Trying to cure pubertal gyno with a designer steroid is not a smart course of action. I know you want to convince yourself of this but something tells me you are smarter than that or you would not have made this thread.

I'd suggest you put the Epistane in a drawer for a few YEARS. If you don't want to pull out of the cycle for the sake of $60, consider pulling out because you will probably make your gyno worse and may also experience other hormonal issues as well.

PS - your Epistane dosing does not make sense and rebound gyno from epistane will happen (if its going to happen) after you finish your SERM PCT and the protection from that SERM has ended.

One final thought. Your hope that somebody will post up some study that shows how you might react is not going to happen. We all react differently to these compounds so there is no telling how you will react to this cycle. Science also indicates the the human brain is not done maturing until at least 25 years of age. Playing with hormoes that WILL influence your development path is probably not a great idea. To what degree steroids will affect this development, who's to say. I guess we all take our own chances in life.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-24173194

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2892678/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1474508/

Best of luck. I hope you make the smart choice instead of the 'easy' choice.

 

[dman1]

Running another cycle right now would be foolish. You have been given good advice if you are being told to abstain from steroids and deal with your gyno first. Consider this, person A runs 500mg of Test per week for 12 weeks and does not need to use an aromatase inhibitor. Person A then runs another cycle 6 months later, also with 500mg Test per week, and has problems with gyno. It can and does happen all the time and no this is not just related to Testosterone usage. This can happen with PHs and designer steroids as well. Just because you were "successful" the 1st time does not mean you will be again. I will also tell you that the more you play with your hormones, the more susceptible you will be to having hormonal imbalances. This is a fact!

Trying to cure pubertal gyno with a designer steroid is not a smart course of action. I know you want to convince yourself of this but something tells me you are smarter than that or you would not have made this thread.

I'd suggest you put the Epistane in a drawer for a few YEARS. If you don't want to pull out of the cycle for the sake of $60, consider pulling out because you will probably make your gyno worse and may also experience other hormonal issues as well.

PS - your Epistane dosing does not make sense and rebound gyno from epistane will happen (if its going to happen) after you finish your SERM PCT and the protection from that SERM has ended.

One final thought. Your hope that somebody will post up some study that shows how you might react is not going to happen. We all react differently to these compounds so there is no telling how you will react to this cycle. Science also indicates the the human brain is not done maturing until at least 25 years of age. Playing with hormoes that WILL influence your development path is probably not a great idea. To what degree steroids will affect this development, who's to say. I guess we all take our own chances in life.



Best of luck. I hope you make the smart choice instead of the 'easy' choice.

WOW thanks for the GREAT response I appreciate you caring enough to type this out to help a fellow "brother in iron" , will certainly take into consideration everything you said especially about people having different reactions at different times and i will read those links i had to cut them out when quoting you because i couldnt have responded otherwise since i dont have enough posts to post(or quote for that matter)

By the way i made another thread on my first cycle and that it was probably bunk, i know you already did alot for me but you seem intelligent and well versed in the manner so it would be great if you could take a look at it and chime in the title is "was my epistane fake and should i still run PCT" its on the front page i believe

I think im not gonna do it but i would still like to consider other opinions as well no offense, any reason why my dosing doesnt make sense and how i shuld dose it for the most anabolism if i did decide to(which i probably wont but im curious)

 

[rascal14]

You couldn't find real epistane the first time, what makes you think you'll be able to do it now considering its banned?

 

[HardB0iled]

Send it to me. I'll tell you if it's legit.

 

[dman1]

Send it to me. I'll tell you if it's legit.

maybe you didnt read the OP i only have a couple caps left lol

 

[dman1]

You couldn't find real epistane the first time, what makes you think you'll be able to do it now considering its banned?

well i ordered it off ebay the first time like a noob, this time i swam across the pond(if you know what im saying) and got myself some epistane from a authorized OL vendor. obviously im not swimming back with it into the US, THAT WOULD BE ILLEGAL
But tbh the other guy kind of convinced me to hold off cycling for now

 

[rascal14]

well i ordered it off ebay the first time like a noob, this time i swam across the pond(if you know what im saying) and got myself some epistane from a authorized OL vendor. obviously im not swimming back with it into the US, THAT WOULD BE ILLEGAL
But tbh the other guy kind of convinced me to hold off cycling for now

Smart move on that purchase.

You should wait a while or atleast get blood work before starting another cycle.

 

[linuxjon]

IMO, unless you're making a living as an athlete, nobody should be messing with gear until their mid 20s. Maybe if you're a competitive powerlifter, or actually are competing in bodybuilding shows. Then it's a bit of a requirement.

I assume you intend on lifting well into your 30s and 40s, right? Well right now your natural levels are better than they are ever going to be down the road. Save the this sort of thing for later, when making progress in the gym won't be nearly as easy as right now.

If you want to deal with the gyno, deal with that directly. Don't use that as an excuse to run a cycle you are too young to be considering.

 

[HardB0iled]

maybe you didnt read the OP i only have a couple caps left lol

well i ordered it off ebay the first time like a noob, this time i swam across the pond(if you know what im saying) and got myself some epistane from a authorized OL vendor. obviously im not swimming back with it into the US, THAT WOULD BE ILLEGAL
But tbh the other guy kind of convinced me to hold off cycling for now

I was referring to the OL Epi that you picked up from "across the pond". Since you won't be running after all...

 

[Darlz]

IMO, unless you're making a living as an athlete, nobody should be messing with gear until their mid 20s. Maybe if you're a competitive powerlifter, or actually are competing in bodybuilding shows. Then it's a bit of a requirement.

I assume you intend on lifting well into your 30s and 40s, right? Well right now your natural levels are better than they are ever going to be down the road. Save the this sort of thing for later, when making progress in the gym won't be nearly as easy as right now.

If you want to deal with the gyno, deal with that directly. Don't use that as an excuse to run a cycle you are too young to be considering.

I completely agree with the gentleman here. If I were you I would just try using a Natural Test booster and maybe something like MK-677 (Gharine if you are shopping Olympus). Also I think you would be surprised at what 10 grams of a good creatine can do for a young guy.. And do yourself a favor, download a diet app with a nutrition tracker or log and start logging your Proteins, Carbs, Fats(I use my fitness pal). Fine tune your diet and I bet you can put on some real lean muscle and it wont imbalance your hormones ..

 

[dman1]

I was referring to the OL Epi that you picked up from "across the pond". Since you won't be running after all...

Nah bro I can sell it to a friend and make a decent profit

 

[dman1]

I completely agree with the gentleman here. If I were you I would just try using a Natural Test booster and maybe something like MK-677 (Gharine if you are shopping Olympus). Also I think you would be surprised at what 10 grams of a good creatine can do for a young guy.. And do yourself a favor, download a diet app with a nutrition tracker or log and start logging your Proteins, Carbs, Fats(I use my fitness pal). Fine tune your diet and I bet you can put on some real lean muscle and it wont imbalance your hormones ..

Natty test boosters don't rly make a difference. Tried creatine, gained some water weight and not much else.
And I think I know how to diet and lift as
I've been lifting for 5 years
I bench pressed 225 with a 3 Second pause And squatted 325 ass to grass before I even turned 16 and that was many years ago, I've read countless articles and tried many programs
But thanks for the advice I can see how you would think that a young guy thinking about gear should maybe fine tune everything else first in not cases

 

[Darlz]

Its not about fine tuning anything. Its about it playing it safe when we are talking messing with your hormones at a young age. Their is a reason why most people here recommend that adults wait until the age of 25 to start playing around with gear or prohormones. How much you lift or how long you have been lifting for has absolutely nothing to do with anything. Alot of young guys start taking these prohormones at an early age, which essentially turns off your natural testosterone production just as any steroid would... I can show you a bunch of links of people who screwed up their HPTA so bad, that they have to be on TRT to not feel like a woman because their nuts dont produce a natural level of Test anymore. It happens alot more than you think. I personally waited til 24...

 

[Darlz]

Also not for nothing... But your original intent in this post was to ask some more experienced guys here to convince you NOT to use prohormones at your age. Yet, for every person who told you why you shouldnt, you had an excuse why you should. If you are willing to risk having low testosterone for the rest of your life, than be my guest go right ahead and use it. As long as you know the risks that your taking, than the decision is yours....

 

[drogan]

If you want to try to get rid of the gyno, try running raloxifene at 60-120mg ed for about 6 months, it really does wonders, plus it cant shut you down at all, if anything it might increase your natty t levels slightly, not like clomid will though.

 

[contro]

I think he said he wouldn't do it?

 

[linuxjon]

Natty test boosters don't rly make a difference. Tried creatine, gained some water weight and not much else.
And I think I know how to diet and lift as
I've been lifting for 5 years
I bench pressed 225 with a 3 Second pause And squatted 325 ass to grass before I even turned 16 and that was many years ago, I've read countless articles and tried many programs
But thanks for the advice I can see how you would think that a young guy thinking about gear should maybe fine tune everything else first in not cases

It has utterly nothing to do with how much you can lift or how much muscle mass you already have. Unless someone posts they have been lifting for six months, I just assume they are experienced enough from that standpoint.

The point is you are very young. You might speed up your gains a bit while on cycle now, and screw up your body and slow down the natural gains you'll make for the next 15 years. You shouldn't be manipulating hormones at an age where your T level may well still naturally be on the uptick, not the downtick.

If you came in here saying "hey I want to pursue pro bodybuilding and I'm okay with being on test the rest of my life for this purpose" I'd at least say it's worth entertaining the idea. But if your goal is to run a quick cycle, recover and move on, it's NOT worth it at your age. The payoff just isn't work the risk.

 

[Blergs]

It has utterly nothing to do with how much you can lift or how much muscle mass you already have. Unless someone posts they have been lifting for six months, I just assume they are experienced enough from that standpoint.

The point is you are very young. You might speed up your gains a bit while on cycle now, and screw up your body and slow down the natural gains you'll make for the next 15 years. You shouldn't be manipulating hormones at an age where your T level may well still naturally be on the uptick, not the downtick.

If you came in here saying "hey I want to pursue pro bodybuilding and I'm okay with being on test the rest of my life for this purpose" I'd at least say it's worth entertaining the idea. But if your goal is to run a quick cycle, recover and move on, it's NOT worth it at your age. The payoff just isn't work the risk.

i agree. and ending up on hrt, or earlier than you would if not used aas before age 25, may be a big hassle and regret.. injecting every week for 60 years or so (if lucky)