Up and coming cut cycle: Ostarine, S4, MK677 and more

siske1995

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Hey guys, beeb lurking for a while now, not quite the poster on forums.

Small introduction, I'm 20, currently weigh around 190lbs, bodyfat percentage not known, don't care. Numbers are just that, mental masturbation. If I would have to guess? Around 12-13. Depends on who you ask, I have full visible abs, obliques and serratus anteriors.

I have a few cycles of substances under my belt, an Ostarine only cycle, a clenbuterol one about a year and a half ago, a Ostarine cut where I ended with DNP and used clen in between. All in all, always have awesome results cutting fat, I know how my body reacts, I know what to use, how to diet etc. I'm a strict mofo and aim for results, I can handle **** easily, it's a mental thing.
 

siske1995

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Now, the important part, I'm ending a Ostarine and MK677 cycle and bridging into an LGD one soon, after that, I will do a small cut if 1 month to cut some fat off. My last cut was only one and a half months, where I screwed around with DNP the last 2 weeks (1 week DNP, 1 week recovering and letting water retention go away) and my results were top notch. Recomped quite a bit instead of cut and looked like a different man. Strenght shot up, only to dissipate a bit when I ran DNP.
 

siske1995

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As I have used quite some things and have first hand experience with them, I wanted to push it for 1 month and cruise natty through the summer. Been abusing myself quite some time, no problems whatsoever, but the rest is only helpful for my body and mind alike.

I have a few compounds on hand:

Ostarine (50mg/ml/30ml)
S4 (50mg/ml/30ml)
MK677 (running this non stop for now
Clenbuterol (20mcg tabs)
DNP (250mg caps)
Sibutramine (15mg caps, for when **** hits the fan with DNP and MK677)

Ostarine keeps muscle and adds to it nicely in my experience, helps burn fat too.

MK677 piqued my interest for several benefits to bulk, recently to cut, except the hunger, but I can handle that, I noticed cheating alot in my bulk, upping daily calories to 3500 and it keeps me lean. Kind of nuts how well it does it's job, I want to use it in my cut too.
 

siske1995

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Clenbuterol because it does it for me, lean out quite good and can handle the sleep problem. Dosed to 200mcg first time, sucked ass, do you even Parkingson brah? Never go above 100, maybe 120mcg a day. No ketotifen, just 2 week runs.

DNP, abused and experimented with it the last week of my last cut, went upto 750mg and felt like ass, a sweaty ass to note, not worth it and the binging, dear lord.

S4 is something new for me, was buying my LGD and saw it, thought why not, I'm a chemical barrel already.

For a lot of people this will seem much, don't mind, I understand, but I don't need any commentary on that. I know the compounds, I have the knowledge and experience, so save me the discussion.

Now I want to use them all and wanted to know how any of you would set this up. I have a few solutions, but some people agree and some don't.

Something like:

Ostarine @ 25mg/ED for 4 weeks
S4 @ 75mg/ED 3 split doses for 4 weeks with a 5 on 2 off protocol for the eyes
MK677 @ 25mg/ED
Clenbuterol only 2 weeks, ramping E2D or so to a max of 100-120mcg

DNP, this is where I got stuck. I was thinking of trying a 250mg EOD method over a month time. After reading and thinking, I'm not completely convinced this will be the best option for several reasons. A short, heavy blast is not an option, I will not consider it, it wasn't worth it last time, so I'm looking into alternatives with this compound.

Ps: DNP got all covered, anti ox, multi, electrolytes, water etc.

Training will be 3x week fullbody ICF3x5, diet will be ketosis (preferred method for host of reasons) and Intermittent Fasting. Reason is Keto and IF work nice together, I feel and function better on those 2, then when I'm bulking on 3500-4000kcals. IF will work very synergystically with MK677 for more benefits. I will consume green tea and coffee during fast (green tea having extra benefits because of the weak somatostatin inhibition)

What do you guys suggest for the DNP dilemma? If anyone has questions, ask away!

Thanks!
 

Darlz

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Ok so I guess Im stupid but I gotta ask... What is DNP?


Scratch that nevermind.... dinitrophenol
 
smith_69

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Hey guys, beeb lurking for a while now, not quite the poster on forums.

Small introduction, I'm 20, currently weigh around 190lbs, bodyfat percentage not known, don't care. Numbers are just that, mental masturbation. If I would have to guess? Around 12-13. Depends on who you ask, I have full visible abs, obliques and serratus anteriors.

I have a few cycles of substances under my belt, an Ostarine only cycle, a clenbuterol one about a year and a half ago, a Ostarine cut where I ended with DNP and used clen in between. All in all, always have awesome results cutting fat, I know how my body reacts, I know what to use, how to diet etc. I'm a strict mofo and aim for results, I can handle **** easily, it's a mental thing.
don't take this the wrong way bro and trying to set you on a good path for 20 years down the road, but if it were a mental thing, you are clearly lacking the mentality of it all.

however you being 20 yrs old and you most likely feel that you know EVERYTHING-
1- don't see where you mentioned how long you were doing osta and mk for?
2-no time off and going right into LGD the most suppressive Sarm

again, I mean no offense here man, but this is pure stupidity- sorry only advice I will give here is to wait and learn more-
 

Darlz

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don't take this the wrong way bro and trying to set you on a good path for 20 years down the road, but if it were a mental thing, you are clearly lacking the mentality of it all.

however you being 20 yrs old and you most likely feel that you know EVERYTHING-
1- don't see where you mentioned how long you were doing osta and mk for?
2-no time off and going right into LGD the most suppressive Sarm

again, I mean no offense here man, but this is pure stupidity- sorry only advice I will give here is to wait and learn more-


Wow holy ****.. I missed the part where he said he was 20..... I would not be using Clen and DNP together at 20 years old, your asking for a heart attack or some other health related issue. These PED's were not designed to be used buy kids whose bodies are still developing. And SARMS arent the wonder drug that people originally proclaimed they were. ALL OF THEM(except MK677) are suppressive like steroids, Some of them even have a potent anabolic activity... You are asking for a life time of endocrine problems....
 

siske1995

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Darlz Correct, I meant Dinitrophenol. Your second comment after the DNP question, do you have experience with any substance, or are you quoting others? I see why you would say that, but if it's parrotting, it's just that, parrotting. I'm looking for first hand experienced advice and or science. I like to be convinced otherwise in anything in life, if I feel my argument and choices are worth it more then the counter-argument, that's my own choice and I will go through with it. But I only will IF I feel a 100% positive this is what I want to do. I'm not 100% positive for several reasons, some outlined, some not, that's why I'm here.
smith_69 The mental part was about my own willpower when it comes to various substances. I put that there to make it clear I am not looking for any shortcut or crutch to do the work for me, as I have dieted clean and natty to very low levels without much muscle loss. There was some, but neglible for the results I got. That's when I started experimenting with various things, because of interest and not feeling ready to make the life long comittment of AAS. Yes, that sounds stupid, because either way, I'll be cycling the same way I would if I were to jump on the medically proven and thoroughly studied AAS. Forgive me for that.

If I honestly knew everything, I wouldn't have made this post, I am keen to learn from anecdotal advice and or proven science that I did not yet know about.

I have been on Ostarine for almost 5 full weeks now. The MK677 is fairly new, only been taking it for 3 weeks with impressive results nonetheless. I do know the risk associated with it, having chronically elevated IGF-1 potentiating existing tumor and cancer cell growth and potential insulin resistance.

No time off no. The reason why, is because I do not feel shutdown, I do feel surpressed a bit, but nothing major, not at all. I did not want to cycle off this, to cycle on the next, to cycle off that, and have to cycle on my cut cycle. Blasting my HPTA into submission with other PCT drugs that are arguably potentially more damaging then the other things I took/take. Recovery will be longer, but I am okay with that, as I have comitted to dtop using altogether for a few months, getting blood tests to see where I am at and first hand getting everything where it should be before venturing further. I hope you understand my reasoning on this subject.

On-topic again:

About the DNP, I am still convinced the best and safest way to run it, is 250mg EOD to get a kick out of my metabolism while lowering side effects by a lot. When I was on 500mg a day, I could still train and get stronger, it wasn't fun, but it could be done. 500mg a day vs 250mg EOD seems like a far stretch and will likely result in almost no sides whatsoever. This comes from first hand experience and anecdote from various forums and members of respective forums.

Thoughts? Welcome to react to my personal replies! I have no problem if you have to drill me into the ground with something, we all need to learn, I am still very young and value the importance of learning. So, if you think I'm very wrong, reason with me, argue with me and try to convince me.

Thanks for the replies guys!
 

siske1995

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smith_69 Just adding something more, I'm always thinking, haha!

My last cut went flawless, removing the last week DNP flaw from it, I was very happy with the crazy recomp I did in only a month's time. I reckon the DNP would not cause much trouble because of the EOD dosing having lower blood serum levels when accumulated. On the other hand, that cut consisted of 2 small clen cycles and Ostarine, that was it, and I reached quite a new level for myself with that alone.

Should I drop the DNP for another time and do my cut with my old compounds to which I know I react very well, as of my training and diet, and just see what the added MK677 and S4 can do?

Such a dilemma, because I don't want to run too much, but don't seem to find a problem with running the DNP EOD with it. Hateful mind, I always keep thinking and thinking and thinking some more, haha!
 

siske1995

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Just adding a note to what you said about "kids" shouldn't be using these PED's, may I remind you the exact reason Anavar was synthesised in the first place? The fact that MK677 has a real potential to treat childhood GH deficiency? That Ostarine has an arguebly safer profile then Anavar does? I am not discarding potential side effects and long term issues that we may yet have to discover with them.

Running clen and DNP together could be a disaster, depends on the person. Is it healthy? No, I would never admit anything PED related is healthy in any sense, not at all, but I didn't come here to talk about health, we are in this for something else then health, although I do not discard my health and value it for the years to come, I DO have other aspirations and wish to use compounds like these to reach those goals and satisfy myself. You could argue that this is bad for a 20 year old man, but it is still a grown up choice of mine. There are kids addicted to recreational drugs, alcohol, sigarettes etc, starting at a astonishing age of 14, some even younger. Binge drinking in the weekends, some recreational lifters blasting copious amounts of tren and DNP, going to sauna's in Thailand and die. You know who I meant with that. I do not do these things. I will never mix them, not put myself in more danger then I am comfortable with. I do not drink nor use recreational drugs when running any of these compounds and monitor my health closely. After all, in the grand scheme, we take calculated risks everyday, and this risk is calculated like any other.
 

YoungBodyBuil

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Well you seem to have a good head on your shoulders. I would run the Clen at 75mcg MAX DOSAGE E2D or EOD and do the DNP 250MG E2D run the MK677 at 30mg as there's ton of anecdotal evidence of it being run at 30 mg for months to even a year on end. Now for the S4. Quite frankly, S4 is a bitch of a compound, possibly the ****tiest of all the SARMs in my user based opinion. Since you're new to the compound I would say try not to go above 50/60mg as most people find that's their sweet spot (getting results with least possible sides) I ran it at 50mg for 4 weeks 3days was gonna go for 6 weeks with a 5 on 2 off protocol but switched to 4 on 3 off the quit it all together, the sides are just not worth it with much better cutting compounds out. Now for the main part of your cut, osta run at 4 weeks? Worthless IMO. You need ATLEAST 6 weeks of osta for a nice recomp effect. SARMs take 2-3 weeks in general to have a visible effect. Also what is your planned LGD dosing if you do decide to use it? I have tons of LGD experience from 4 cycles of varying dosages and stacking. I'm in the same area as you except I started a little later at 23
 

Darlz

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Just adding a note to what you said about "kids" shouldn't be using these PED's, may I remind you the exact reason Anavar was synthesised in the first place? The fact that MK677 has a real potential to treat childhood GH deficiency? That Ostarine has an arguebly safer profile then Anavar does? I am not discarding potential side effects and long term issues that we may yet have to discover with them.

Running clen and DNP together could be a disaster, depends on the person. Is it healthy? No, I would never admit anything PED related is healthy in any sense, not at all, but I didn't come here to talk about health, we are in this for something else then health, although I do not discard my health and value it for the years to come, I DO have other aspirations and wish to use compounds like these to reach those goals and satisfy myself. You could argue that this is bad for a 20 year old man, but it is still a grown up choice of mine. There are kids addicted to recreational drugs, alcohol, sigarettes etc, starting at a astonishing age of 14, some even younger. Binge drinking in the weekends, some recreational lifters blasting copious amounts of tren and DNP, going to sauna's in Thailand and die. You know who I meant with that. I do not do these things. I will never mix them, not put myself in more danger then I am comfortable with. I do not drink nor use recreational drugs when running any of these compounds and monitor my health closely. After all, in the grand scheme, we take calculated risks everyday, and this risk is calculated like any other.

You are entitled to make the choices you so desire sir... I wasnt meaning to insult you when I said these could have irreversible effects on your body. It was just a fair warning from experience. On this forum and others, we see cases of guys in their mid to late 20's on TRT because they started messing with their substances that suppressed their natural HPTA at a time when it was still developing. Its not parroting, Its an absolute fact that this is the risk you are taking, Obviously not so much with the Clen and DNP but Sarms shut you down the same way Steroids would. You say you show no signs of shutdown from the Ostarine, First of all if you havent cycled before, you wouldnt know what being shutdown feels like. Furthermore, the only way you are going to know if you are shut down is through a blood test, which is something I highly suggest you do at some point in the near future. At least you seem to have done your fair amount of research and you really dont seem like some dumb kid popping whatever he gets his hands on. I just hope you are aware the possible long term effects of taking these Sarms at that early of an age. There are people here who have posted blood panels showing complete shutdown after a couple weeks of Ostarine at 25mgs... And not for nothing, But you are very Naive if you think you can just run Ostarine for a full cycle and then run LGD 4033 for a full cycle with not time off and no pct... You are assuming that your body will recover after time. What Im trying to make you aware of, is the fact that it might not.. Hopefully you realize that.
 

siske1995

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Thanks for the reply! I try my best, I used to have a fairly thick skull, thinking I knew best, glad that period is over.

Why would you run the clen E2D and not ED? I have never seen that done. Due to the combination with DNP?

I have made up my mind, I'm just going to spread my cut cycle from 4 to 6 weeks, cutting out the DNP too. It seems like a waste compared to my last cutcycle, I lost only 4kg in weight, but went from waist size 83 to 75 and bellybutton from 91 to 83 without the DNP in only 6 weeks total. I was super shredded back then and that was WITHOUT the extra addition of S4 AND MK677. It feels dumb to poison myself more then is needed, obiously it's arguable whether you need anything to cut, but you know what I mean.

Upside is that my new cycle fixes the 6 week Ostarine problem. So that's good, I saw the most after a few weeks, so you are very correct!

About the S4, the sides sounds harsh, but I have no problems with night blindness as I don't drive and the most I have to do, is cross 1 street to get anywhere.

The LGD? I have 10mg/ml/30ml available. That means 300mg total, I wish to use the whole bottle before stopping. I had a plan outlined, it's a bit high, but we can work with it. Maybe I could stretch the LGD cycle to 8 weeks and lower dosages? I have everything to PCT, on cycle etc on hand.

LGD = 5/6/6/7/8/10

Equals 294mg total used, accounting for 6mg waste due to obvious reasons. It'll probably be more waste though.

Last question regarding Clenbuterol, as my cycle is 6 weeks now, I can do the 2 on, 2 off and 2 on, equalling 2 clen cycles instead of 1. I would ramp dosages in this fashion:

20/20/40/40/60/60/80/80/80/100/100/100/100/120

Never taper down, never felt the need nor crash of clenbuterol. So just going cold turkey! This equals 1000mg total clenbuterol in 2 weeks. I have 2000mg left and I would like to use it too. Haha!

So, that's that, excuse me for the long posts, I like to provide information and say alot! ^^.

Consensus of new cycle plan:

Ostarine @ 25mg/ED for 6 weeks
S4 @ 50mg/5 on 2 off for side effects + stretch bottle to 6 weeks
Clenbuterol 2 cycles ramping doses
MK677 @ 25mg/ED (didn't feel any difference vs 37.5, so 30 seems a bit useless in my honest opinion and personal experience, many studies report 25mg to be a great dose too! Combined with fasting in a 20/4 or 21/3 fashion I believe it will give great results!)

And NO DNP.
 
HardB0iled

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Everything about this thread resembles the preface of a thread to be started 10 years from now... I'll look forward to the conclusion.
 

Darlz

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Everything about this thread resembles the preface of a thread to be started 10 years from now... I'll look forward to the conclusion.
My thoughts exactly... Im willing to bet money He's a TRT candidate by the time hes 30.

Wanted to add that I HOPE he isnt.. I have just seen quite a bit of posts from younger guys who come back with issues. And I hate to hear about a young guy having Testosterone problems at an age where they should be peaking with natural Test... This wasnt meant to throw shade and I just wanted to clarify that.
 

siske1995

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I understand you completely! I know the risks of it, and I feel dumb to think that SARMS offer any benefits versus steroids in this regard. I hopped on that bandwagon becuase of false promises and being naive. Thinking I would not het shutdown and nothing would happen. I have experienced shutdown from Ostarine though, I was stupid, did a 8 week cycle, hopped off for a week and hopped on again because I couldn't wait at that time. Balls shrank, felt depressed and everything. The thing is, I don't have a problem feeling like that. That' why I said it's much more a mental thing, I can and have used many recreational drugs in the past without problem. No addictions, no big come offs, always cold turkey. I have quite a large willpower because of my past, I have been through some very disturbing things before, the feeling of being shutdown doesn't even come close to that feeling back then. So in my mind, it feels like nothing.

Answering and clearing up your questions, I do have PCT on hand and planned out already. I have PCT'ed with succes before, it was crazy, because I really felt the difference alot. Didn't change my life though, I just felt better.

So I have it planned out and wasn't contemplating hopping cycles and ending without a PCT, my dear lord that would be stupid. I'm a big planner, I like to plan everything out to the day and have eveything on hand before I take anything. Always expect the worst!
 

siske1995

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I will certainly let you know! But I can tell you beforehand, I will hop onto the juice before I'm 30 and probably won't come off anymore. Just not feeling ready as of now to take that plunge, but it's waiting for me in the near future, I know and understand that. If it's by accident from messing around with SARMS now or by making the decision myself, I know I'll do it someday.
 

Darlz

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Well Truly I hope everything goes smooth for you... You seem well educated on the topic so I have no doubt you understand the risks. As long as you take all the necessary precautions, you SHOULD be fine... Best of luck and come back and post some results!
 

siske1995

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Read my last message, I would hop on TRT by 30 for other reasons alone then some hypertrophy and strenght. Just for the quality of life it provides with declining hormones.

And just noting, English is not my primary language, forgive me for making grammar mistakes and such!
 

Darlz

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Read my last message, I would hop on TRT by 30 for other reasons alone then some hypertrophy and strenght. Just for the quality of life it provides with declining hormones.

And just noting, English is not my primary language, forgive me for making grammar mistakes and such!
I would seriously weigh your options before even considering jumping on TRT by the age of 30. Sure it improves quality of life but if you have hopes of having kids some day, you may wanna hold off.. Extended TRT use will make it impossible for you to have kids. Just something to consider for the future....
 

siske1995

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Thank you for the kind words!

I'm not sure if I really will, I mean, anything can happen, so it would be foolish to assume that I would do that for sure. This is my current mindset and I don't plan to deviate from it anytime soon, but who knows!

The part about the children, you are right, there are so many things to consider before making the plunge, the scope of it is beyond me. It could be that I make the choice now, and will regret it not 10 or 20, but 30 years down the road. The question will be, will I regret it? No one can answer that but yourself. Look at the great Ronnie Coleman, rehabbing his latest injury operation, he can hardly walk and stated he wished he would have trained harder. Obviously the man has an empire built around him with the financial security going with it, so to compare to him would be foolish, but the scale of difference is quite great too.

I have heard anecodote of bodybuilders coming off gear clean and having the ability to produce quality sperm and having healthy, functioning children late in their carreers. So it is possible, but the chance is always there, so I'll have to keep that in mind. Same as with all these SARMS, who knows what kind of long term side effects they could bring?
 

siske1995

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Glad we came to an understanding! Hoping more people will chime in, I'm eager to hear what they have to say! It looks like this is a really helpfull and nice forum whereas other forums and their members are so harsh on each other.
 

YoungBodyBuil

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Thanks for the reply! I try my best, I used to have a fairly thick skull, thinking I knew best, glad that period is over.

Why would you run the clen E2D and not ED? I have never seen that done. Due to the combination with DNP?

I have made up my mind, I'm just going to spread my cut cycle from 4 to 6 weeks, cutting out the DNP too. It seems like a waste compared to my last cutcycle, I lost only 4kg in weight, but went from waist size 83 to 75 and bellybutton from 91 to 83 without the DNP in only 6 weeks total. I was super shredded back then and that was WITHOUT the extra addition of S4 AND MK677. It feels dumb to poison myself more then is needed, obiously it's arguable whether you need anything to cut, but you know what I mean.

Upside is that my new cycle fixes the 6 week Ostarine problem. So that's good, I saw the most after a few weeks, so you are very correct!

About the S4, the sides sounds harsh, but I have no problems with night blindness as I don't drive and the most I have to do, is cross 1 street to get anywhere.

The LGD? I have 10mg/ml/30ml available. That means 300mg total, I wish to use the whole bottle before stopping. I had a plan outlined, it's a bit high, but we can work with it. Maybe I could stretch the LGD cycle to 8 weeks and lower dosages? I have everything to PCT, on cycle etc on hand.

LGD = 5/6/6/7/8/10

Equals 294mg total used, accounting for 6mg waste due to obvious reasons. It'll probably be more waste though.

Last question regarding Clenbuterol, as my cycle is 6 weeks now, I can do the 2 on, 2 off and 2 on, equalling 2 clen cycles instead of 1. I would ramp dosages in this fashion:

20/20/40/40/60/60/80/80/80/100/100/100/100/120

Never taper down, never felt the need nor crash of clenbuterol. So just going cold turkey! This equals 1000mg total clenbuterol in 2 weeks. I have 2000mg left and I would like to use it too. Haha!

So, that's that, excuse me for the long posts, I like to provide information and say alot! ^^.

Consensus of new cycle plan:

Ostarine @ 25mg/ED for 6 weeks
S4 @ 50mg/5 on 2 off for side effects + stretch bottle to 6 weeks
Clenbuterol 2 cycles ramping doses
MK677 @ 25mg/ED (didn't feel any difference vs 37.5, so 30 seems a bit useless in my honest opinion and personal experience, many studies report 25mg to be a great dose too! Combined with fasting in a 20/4 or 21/3 fashion I believe it will give great results!)

And NO DNP.
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6 week LGD run is OBSCENE after a 25mg/ED 6 week osta cycle stacked with 50MG S4. I personally recommend waiting on the LGD cycle for about 3 months after that cycle, however if you do plan to go ahead with that cycle without wanting to wait the time here's what i'd do as i too went the SARM over PH and AAS route, i have run many SARM cycles. But i always pct and take about 2-3months off after every cycle.The thing with SARMs is it's not so much the dosing that will cause major suppression(it plays a HUGE ROLE dont get me wrong) its the cycle length of the SARM run that determines my level of suppression IN MY CASE. I've run 2 osta cycles (i hate osta it skyrockets my E2) but i LOVE LGD the recomp is PHENOMENAL. Now on to my anecdotal experiences. I've run 4 LGD cycles now. My first cycle was a 4 weeker at 12/12/12/12(yes a very high dose) and that was my first ever hormonal endeavor so as you'd expect the results were PHENOMENAL. I recomped very nicely, i gained 12 pounds while keeping the same body fat. That wasn't all dry gains of course as I had some bloat. I ended that cycle and pct at a final weight of 180 from 172 while staying roughly 13% body fat. I KEPT A TOTAL OF 8 POUNDS. After PCT. I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH- If you do not PCT there is a very HIGH chance of losing A LOT of your gains and going through post cycle depression. I took blood prior to the cycle, 2 weeks intra cycle (dropped my total t by 300 points in 2 weeks) and at the end of cycle (down 429 total T while my Natty test prior to cycle was 941) so in 4 weeks it HALVED my total test. My liver and Lipid profiles were relatively the same (I'd like to give the credit to Ar1macare by Olmypus Labs for that) Now im a 100% believer in PCT however my PCT method is different than the usual Nolva/Clomid. I dont believe in stacking 2 SERMs especially with liver toxicity and emotional side effects. So i looked into other methods. That let me to Toremifene Citrate, a second generation SERM with tons of anecdotal evidence. I used Sup3r PCT by OL(olympus labs) 200:1 tongkat ali 1.2g a day ( I use a very expensive source for my tongkat, but you get what you pay for) and Toremifene Citrate run at 120/80/80/40. I can say that on day 3 of this stack my balls were GINORMOUS. Had no libido problems post cycle. Now onto the actual blood panel as that's what truly shows your hormonal state. My total t was at 892 after a complete PCT. So my T levels had a FULL recovery. Now, onto my other LGD cycles.I had read around that SARMs take a while to ramp up AFTER my first cycle. So with this new knowledge i bought more LGD FROM THE SAME SOURCE (i find stating that is important as you could be getting different things from different sources) Luckily i found a good source with a very large following. This time i ran a 6 week cycle at 8/8/8/8/8/8. I got blood panel prior to this cycle as well (i have and will continue to do this every single time I cycle, Im a very calculated/precise person who's anal about his health. My t prior to this cycle was 871. 3 weeks into the cycle (i like taking blood exactly mid cycle) my t dropped to around the same as last time it was sitting at a measly 419. Now for the 6 week marker... my total t was sitting at 252. I was down right lethargic TWENTY-FOUR-SEVEN. My t levels had dropped around 71% from a 6 week cycle. Now i will say a 6 week cycle yielded an ASTOUNDING recomp effect. My weight prior to that cycle was 175 (i had done a mini cut since my previous cycle and got my body fat down a point and a half) i started this cycle at 175 and 11.6% body fat via Dual-Energy X-Ray Absorptiomery method (The most accurate and expensive method, my father and i run a very lucrative computer coding company so although this method is viable for me, it certainly isnt for everyone.) My end of cyles results were 174 pounds at 10.4% BF AFTER PCT. Which i think is PHENOMENAL. My body and LGD seem to synergize extremely well as the cycles are quite impressive, but as you can see the longer cycle periods take a bigger toll on the body vs the higher doses (WITHIN REASON). My PCT also wasnt as smooth after the longer cycle. Just my 2 cents. Now if youre going to cut with osta heres what i would do. Run 6 weeks osta like you have planned NOW I WOULD RECOMMEND PCT AFTER YOUR FIRST CUT CYCLE, but... if you must bridge, then go 6 weeks osta THEN ONLY 2 WEEKS LGD at 12/12, your androgen receptor sites will already be primed so the LGD will automatically kick in and with the 12mg dosage youll see great recomp effects while minimizing chances of shutdown when going from 1 sarm to the next. Just my opinion.
 

Darlz

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Glad we came to an understanding! Hoping more people will chime in, I'm eager to hear what they have to say! It looks like this is a really helpfull and nice forum whereas other forums and their members are so harsh on each other.
You are in good hands here in this forum... That I can promise you. These guys, especially Yates, on this board are some of the most knowledgeable and experienced guys you can find. I may have to warn you though, being that your a younger guy, Others will probably caution you as well just to make sure your aware of dangers, risks, and side effects. Dont take it the wrong way, because we arent trying to put you down or anything like that. I think I speak for everyone here when I say safety is always a major consideration when cycling. Aside from that, I promise you the guys here wont steer you wrong...
 

siske1995

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Thank you for the detailed post! Very informative!

My cut cycle will be right after my LGD cycle, not the other way around. So I'll be starting LGD sometime next week and bridging with Ostarine after that for 6 weeks. That will conclude my PED runs for a while. I plan to PCT with Nolvadex (treated me very well with no side effects at all) for 4 weeks after that. 6 weeks after PCT I'll get a blood panel done to see where I am at and get everything in the range it needs to be in before jumping into something else again.
 

siske1995

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I have already noticed that! Good, solid advice could be taken wrong very quickly on these kind of subjects, but I fully understand where they are coming from. A few pounds of muscle isn't worth damaging my body to an extent where it cannot be repaired. It's a tricky thing, because after all, bodybuilders will do anything and I mean ANYTHING to gain a slight advantage.

In that regard, SARMS seemed like the better option of the 3. AAS is a route all on its own that I am not ready to commit to. Prohormones were like the easy option, but are deceiving, shut down as hard as normal AAS but toxic as hell and bringing their own side effects with them. Then you got SARMS which seem okay, no spectacular gains, no balls to the wall (or in the body should I say) shutdown and liver toxicity is debatable. Se they seemed to fill a nice niche for now, a step inbetween and an introduction to the PED world and what it has to offer, positives and negatives alike.
 

siske1995

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Adding something to debate on, I have read personal bloodwork and in studies that on SARMS like Ostarine and LGD-4033, while they may be surpressive with dose dependant use, the surpression can be countered very easily due to not altering LH too much, making coming back online easier then with AAS that ahut you down fully and leave you with 0 LH.

Is there any merit to this? The guys at Reddit are big believers in this, having read numerous logs and anecdotes that coming back is very easy whereas some never used PCT at all and recovered fine (with a bit more time ofcourse).

I see a big problem and gap in anecdotal SARM knowledge spread throughout the years, when things like S4 were sold as Ostarine, or companies and research chem sites spiking or just shipping out prohormones or low dosed AAS instead of the original product, giving birth to a lot of logs where people report some nasty side effects and results. One of them is the LH one, where recent bloodwork of members showed that LH remained untouched for the most part on LGD, making recovery easy, but older posts showed total shutdown. Makes it hard to sift through correct information, what to believe these days, we have so many camps out on the subject, with people doing 4-6 week Ostarine cycles and doing a full blown PCT, taking AI's on cycle etc and the other extreme, the guys who maybe, just maybe would use some DAA for a while and most of the time just to without any PCT at all.

I'd rather be safe then sorry and go all the way though.
 

Darlz

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I have already noticed that! Good, solid advice could be taken wrong very quickly on these kind of subjects, but I fully understand where they are coming from. A few pounds of muscle isn't worth damaging my body to an extent where it cannot be repaired. It's a tricky thing, because after all, bodybuilders will do anything and I mean ANYTHING to gain a slight advantage.

In that regard, SARMS seemed like the better option of the 3. AAS is a route all on its own that I am not ready to commit to. Prohormones were like the easy option, but are deceiving, shut down as hard as normal AAS but toxic as hell and bringing their own side effects with them. Then you got SARMS which seem okay, no spectacular gains, no balls to the wall (or in the body should I say) shutdown and liver toxicity is debatable. Se they seemed to fill a nice niche for now, a step inbetween and an introduction to the PED world and what it has to offer, positives and negatives alike.
Absolutely a great way to "get your feet wet".. no doubt.... As for your other question about suppression with Osta and LGD, I think you may have better luck asking that in this thread.... http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/270011-sarms-mk-gw.html
 

siske1995

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It sure is! Don't regret going this way one bit.

I'll look into that!
 

siske1995

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Adding a new question about dosing S4:

Since I will be stretching the cycle from 4 to 6 weeks, my original plan was to do 75mg/ED with 5 on 2 off. This would stretch the bottle 4 weeks at that dosing schedule. I'm moving to 50mg/ED obviously because of the extra 2 weeks.

How should I dose this? The half life seems to be around 4-6 hours? Can anyone confirm this? Would it be better to split the 50mg in 2 or 3 doses each day? Looking at user logs it seems to give quite the strenght effect when taking it pre-workout. Would a protocol like this work?

50mg/ED 5 on 2 off, on workout days 15mg in the morning (09:00), 15mg in the afternoon (like 13:00) and 20mg pre workout (17:00).

This is based around my own personal schedule and the 4 hour half life concept. Would this offer any benefit vs 2 a day dosing? Like morning and pre workout? That would leave a few hours between without a dose.

Yes, I plan things out like a nut and actually care about the possible 1% extra gain I can get doing something like this, haha!
 

YoungBodyBuil

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Adding a new question about dosing S4:

Since I will be stretching the cycle from 4 to 6 weeks, my original plan was to do 75mg/ED with 5 on 2 off. This would stretch the bottle 4 weeks at that dosing schedule. I'm moving to 50mg/ED obviously because of the extra 2 weeks.

How should I dose this? The half life seems to be around 4-6 hours? Can anyone confirm this? Would it be better to split the 50mg in 2 or 3 doses each day? Looking at user logs it seems to give quite the strenght effect when taking it pre-workout. Would a protocol like this work?

50mg/ED 5 on 2 off, on workout days 15mg in the morning (09:00), 15mg in the afternoon (like 13:00) and 20mg pre workout (17:00).

This is based around my own personal schedule and the 4 hour half life concept. Would this offer any benefit vs 2 a day dosing? Like morning and pre workout? That would leave a few hours between without a dose.

Yes, I plan things out like a nut and actually care about the possible 1% extra gain I can get doing something like this, haha!
I would go 30-10-10 you'd need a higher dose to benefit from it prior to workout. So yes you're on the right track but id put more of it towards my work out. That's for workout days, as for days off id go 20 am 15 noon, 15 pm.
 

siske1995

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That's what I was thinking! I did not know how much it would matter or what dosages would be correct for this approach.

I will do the 10/10/30 approach for workout days as you suggested. What is the reasoning for starting with 25mg on off days? Reaching a higher peak saturation dose early in the day?
 

siske1995

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Oh, and for the LGD cycle that coming up, my layout is like this:

300mg total in a 10mg/ml/30ml solution.

5/6/6/7/8/10

Want to run the whole bottle but keep my cycle to 6 weeks as 8 weeks feels too long. Thoughts?
 
smith_69

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Oh, and for the LGD cycle that coming up, my layout is like this:

300mg total in a 10mg/ml/30ml solution.

5/6/6/7/8/10

Want to run the whole bottle but keep my cycle to 6 weeks as 8 weeks feels too long. Thoughts?
no- should be good- 4-6 you should start seeing better results, 8 youll see more. sweet spot for me was 7 mg- higher didnt produce more results, so when you do the change, pay attn to your body, pumps recovery- time between sets- you should notice less time needed between sets.
 

siske1995

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Thanks for the reply!

Would it be worth it running it higher from the start and ramping from say, 6 to 8 and run 6/6/7/7/8/8 instead? Totals 294mg, so same usage, different spreadout!
 
smith_69

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Thanks for the reply!

Would it be worth it running it higher from the start and ramping from say, 6 to 8 and run 6/6/7/7/8/8 instead? Totals 294mg, so same usage, different spreadout!
NO- start off small

once a day- dont split it
 

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