Would love some experienced advice - already have stuff in hand

[TheApex]

Alright guys, so I'm about to try what I would consider a beginner-maybe mid level at most set up for my first ever. I would absolutely appreciate any help you can give.

A little detail if it helps. I'm sitting at 6'3 around 203 at 14% I'm guessing (I was checked recently at 12-13 but got sick and feel like I added a little bit). I've only been seriously lifting for about 4 years, but got really interested in it, got my CSCS and NASM just for ****s to give me a better idea in kinesiology and nutrition as it aligned with my med program. So I know a decent amount about base nutrition and how to do some lifting. Probably not much compared to many here but at least got a base going. Anyway I recently decided to try something new, as I've been stuck at a plateau for longer than I'd like and haven't experienced real gains in awhile. I basically want to know if I've got enough of everything I need to do a basic 10 ish week cycle and PCT without anything going wrong. Again, I know it's nothing like Tren or Dbol or something like that, but ya know... start small. Also I hope I'm not screwing up on any of the rules as this is my first post.

Too long, didn't read; here's what I got. What dosage, timing (day and week, maybe even time of day), PCT set up, and extra OCT stuff should I do. A breakdown would be completely awesome.

2 bottles LGD-4033 10mg/ml at 30
2 bottles GW-501516 20mg/ml at 30
1 120 cap bottle 10mg EPI 2a3a (vital labs pre ban)
1 bottle Ostarine 50mg at 30
2 bottles HCG
1 LiquiNolva 25mg at 30
1 LiquiAromas 15mg at 30

Pretty sure that's it. Not sure about taking the epi with the GW and LGD or what, but I thought I'd ask if I should take it with those two or not in your opinion. Any and all advice and a breakdown would be pretty awesome. I have a strong idea from research and friends on gear, but I wanted second opinions. Thanks guys!

 

[jwinak82]

I'm not as well versed as most of these guys, but I'm sure most of them will say something like this. If this is your first run just use the epi. 10 weeks is to long for an oral cycle especially your first run, most would say 6 max. Don't start stacking a products until you know how you'll respond to it. You need to add a cycle support and a pct support. Olympus Labs has some really good stuff. I would pick up some lj100 to run in pct. If its your first run keep it as simple as possible.

Start the epi out at 20 mg then work your way up to 40 by the end of your six weeks. You need to do some basic research before you start. Just use google.

 

[unreal89]

Just run lgd for 8 weeks and bulk then osta and gw few months after for a cut

 

[Demgainz]

If you plan on pretty much taking all of this, it is not a good idea for a first cycle. I would advise you to choose one compound, run it with all of the proper ancillaries, a decent pct, and then assess from there.

 

[AustBenny]

Osta 10 weeks. PCT. Done.

 

[TheApex]

If you plan on pretty much taking all of this, it is not a good idea for a first cycle. I would advise you to choose one compound, run it with all of the proper ancillaries, a decent pct, and then assess from there.

Thanks for the input, and I had not really decided. I know a lot of people run LGD and GW together, it just seems to be common practice from what I know, but again my sample size could be small. Also in person I see quite a few guys taking Epi with Test E, which lead me to dig around some research in which it seemed like a PH like epi combined with two synergistic SARMs might be beneficial.

In terms of PCT I have, in the list, nolvadex, aromasin, HCG, and even Ostarine. Or is something wrong with that? I chose those as they seemed to help the best with suppression and having an AI on hand always seems like a good idea. With Ostarine being used recently to preserve gained mass in PCT and bridges it just makes sense. Again, just from what I've been hearing and seeing lately.

 

[TheApex]

I'm not as well versed as most of these guys, but I'm sure most of them will say something like this. If this is your first run just use the epi. 10 weeks is to long for an oral cycle especially your first run, most would say 6 max. Don't start stacking a products until you know how you'll respond to it. You need to add a cycle support and a pct support. Olympus Labs has some really good stuff. I would pick up some lj100 to run in pct. If its your first run keep it as simple as possible.

Start the epi out at 20 mg then work your way up to 40 by the end of your six weeks. You need to do some basic research before you start. Just use google.

I get what you're saying man, about being a first cycle and taking it easy. You're probably right.

From what I listed there though, what is wrong with my PCT? If I have nolva and aroma as an AI, with HCG for natural reproduction and even ostarine for a preservation antagonist, is there more? Other than base ancillaries.

 

[TheApex]

Just run lgd for 8 weeks and bulk then osta and gw few months after for a cut

So you think LGD by itself, then GW and Osta as part of a PCT/Cut type thing, or do PCT after each?

From everything I've been hearing people have been using Osta as a PCT (in conjunction with Nolva and AI's), should they not be doing this? My understanding is the whole idea behind osta is preservation and preventing loss when coming off, so that's why I included it in the PCT.

 

[Night hog]

Ostarine is suppressive, I wouldn't run that during my PCT. It would be defeating the purpose of PCT.

 

[Thiefcatcher]

^^This

 

[jwinak82]

I get what you're saying man, about being a first cycle and taking it easy. You're probably right.

From what I listed there though, what is wrong with my PCT? If I have nolva and aroma as an AI, with HCG for natural reproduction and even ostarine for a preservation antagonist, is there more? Other than base ancillaries.

You gotta read up more man, Ostarine will keep you suppressed, any one who say's otherwise is just trying to sell you something. From what I read your going to want to use the HCG on cycle, correct me if I'm wrong but HCG mimics LH, that's how it will keep your boys going on cycle. But while you're on it your body won't produce Lh. So not what you want to use for pct but while on cycle. The novla is great, so is the Ai. Just get a good otc pct product to throw in. Defiantly look up how to use the HCG. I have yet to use it, but I'm planing on it for my next run.

 

[unreal89]

Save osta and gw for a cut later down the road Ru. Lgd and bulk then proper pct

 

[TheApex]

You gotta read up more man, Ostarine will keep you suppressed, any one who say's otherwise is just trying to sell you something. From what I read your going to want to use the HCG on cycle, correct me if I'm wrong but HCG mimics LH, that's how it will keep your boys going on cycle. But while you're on it your body won't produce Lh. So not what you want to use for pct but while on cycle. The novla is great, so is the Ai. Just get a good otc pct product to throw in. Defiantly look up how to use the HCG. I have yet to use it, but I'm planing on it for my next run.

These guys were actually using ostarine as post, but what you're saying actually makes much more sense thinking about it. You shouldn't be suppressed in post so you're definitely right. I should be good using the LGD and HCG together and just using nolva for post right? Also what about OCT stuff in terms of the taurines and fish oil stuff, or is that all unnecessary?

 

[TheApex]

Ostarine is suppressive, I wouldn't run that during my PCT. It would be defeating the purpose of PCT.

Gotcha man, thank you.

 

[TheApex]

Save osta and gw for a cut later down the road Ru. Lgd and bulk then proper pct

So would it be a bad idea to do LGD and epi together to gain along with HCG for support on cycle, then do PCT with nolva and aroma. Then after take a break for a bit, then do GW and Osta with the same PCT (I don't think AI is necessary with just SARMs so maybe I wouldn't need the aroma)

 

[unreal89]

Epi would help with lethargy go for it make some gains

 

[BamBam0319]

You have actual HCG? If you have access to that why not just run a basic testosterone cycle and kick start with your epi or something?

 

[unreal89]

Everybody says have ai just in case I'm running 50 mg DMZ 20 mg msten bridged into trenavar at 100 mg for 5 weeks no ai on hand you should be fine

 

[BamBam0319]

Everybody says have ai just in case I'm running 50 mg DMZ 20 mg msten bridged into trenavar at 100 mg for 5 weeks no ai on hand you should be fine

Why do you not even have one on hand...like just in case, bro. You're f*cked if you sprout titties out of no where and have no way to treat it right away.
I always have an AI on hand even off cycle.

 

[smith_69]

So you think LGD by itself, then GW and Osta as part of a PCT/Cut type thing, or do PCT after each?

From everything I've been hearing people have been using Osta as a PCT (in conjunction with Nolva and AI's), should they not be doing this? My understanding is the whole idea behind osta is preservation and preventing loss when coming off, so that's why I included it in the PCT.

yes you are correct, using Osta as part of PCT, however, Osta will help maintain a larger portion of their post-cycle gains, but could become an issues with recovery and the improved gains will only be short lived. Any muscle mass that was held when using Osta will be lost upon ending of the drug. Osta is a good sarm, but as PCT, it shouldn't be counted on.

secondly,

don't forget that LGD is more suppressive and you will need a revamp afterwards. as Night says below, you will be defeating the purpose

 

[TheApex]

You have actual HCG? If you have access to that why not just run a basic testosterone cycle and kick start with your epi or something?

Crap dude I'm sorry, no I don't have true HCG, just generate. I didn't think I'd need true stuff until I graduated to something more potent. That's why I'm starting small with SARM and PH stuff. With that in mind, what do you think I should do? Or does it not matter really since this stuff is no deca or tren?

 

[TheApex]

yes you are correct, using Osta as part of PCT, however, Osta will help maintain a larger portion of their post-cycle gains, but could become an issues with recovery and the improved gains will only be short lived. Any muscle mass that was held when using Osta will be lost upon ending of the drug. Osta is a good sarm, but as PCT, it shouldn't be counted on.

secondly,

don't forget that LGD is more suppressive and you will need a revamp afterwards. as Night says below, you will be defeating the purpose

Awesome, this is the stuff I need to hear. When you say a revamp, what are you saying? PCT?

And with what I have on hand, what should my next 6 months look like? Sorry for the questions, just wanna nail this down right.

 

[BamBam0319]

Crap dude I'm sorry, no I don't have true HCG, just generate. I didn't think I'd need true stuff until I graduated to something more potent. That's why I'm starting small with SARM and PH stuff. With that in mind, what do you think I should do? Or does it not matter really since this stuff is no deca or tren?

I think there are way way better products than HCGenerate, but since you already have it you may as well use it. Probably use it alongside your SERM in PCT

 

[unreal89]

I think there are way way better products than HCGenerate, but since you already have it you may as well use it. Probably use it alongside your SERM in PCT

if I do I'm gonna have to buy some exemestane off someone in Town

 

[dave39]

Is your Osta dosed at 50mg per capsule ?

 

[unreal89]

Its a research liquid probably 1 ml is 50 mgs

 

[dave39]

Ok that makes sense. If it was per capsule I was going to suggest throwing it out haha

 

[kboxer7]

I'll add in that you shouldn't take GW with anything that negativity affects the liver.

In the presence of liver stress GW has been shown to increase fibrosis.

PM me if you want me to pull the study up later (on mobile now).

 

[AustBenny]

^^^^Yikes, I did not know this......don't need to see the study, I will go check out my own research.

 

[TheApex]

Is your Osta dosed at 50mg per capsule ?

50mg per ml, could do .5ml

 

[unreal89]

Yes 50 mg is a lot of osta

 

[TheApex]

So with all that's been said in mind, what do you guys think I should do with what I have, and anything I should get?

 

[BamBam0319]

I'll add in that you shouldn't take GW with anything that negativity affects the liver.

In the presence of liver stress GW has been shown to increase fibrosis.

PM me if you want me to pull the study up later (on mobile now).

^^^^Yikes, I did not know this......don't need to see the study, I will go check out my own research.

Damn. Was going to start cardarine to assist with any tren side effects but I guess I'll wait until I come off sdrol.

 

[kboxer7]

Damn. Was going to start cardarine to assist with any tren side effects but I guess I'll wait until I come off sdrol.

I definitely would NOT run it while on SDROL.

 

[BamBam0319]

I definitely would NOT run it while on SDROL.

Haha yeah no thank you. I'll wait a few days after dropping the drol to start the cardarine up.

 

[Chevy]

Mate what are your goals? Bulking or cutting?

My opinion-

If cutting run the Epi at 30mg Ed for 6wks followed by nolva & hcgen for pct, gw could be thrown into pct also, end with some asin tapered off to close out pct. Need to get yourself an otc cycle assist tho as the hcgen doesn't cut it for on cycle use.

If bulking run the ldg 1ml Ed & osta 0.5ml Ed stacked for 8 wks, again nolva hcgen pct.

My thoughts at least.

 

[smith_69]

Mate what are your goals? Bulking or cutting?

My opinion-

If cutting run the Epi at 30mg Ed for 6wks followed by nolva & hcgen for pct, gw could be thrown into pct also, end with some asin tapered off to close out pct. Need to get yourself an otc cycle assist tho as the hcgen doesn't cut it for on cycle use.

If bulking run the ldg 1ml Ed & osta 0.5ml Ed stacked for 8 wks, again nolva hcgen pct.

My thoughts at least.

lg and osta are similar - that is not a right way to do this

 

[BamBam0319]

I would bulk with LGD and then cut with osta, if that's all I had access to.

 

[smith_69]

I would bulk with LGD and then cut with osta, if that's all I had access to.

agree, wouldnt run together-

thinking of doing that in a few weeks myself

 

[BamBam0319]

agree, wouldnt run together-

thinking of doing that in a few weeks myself

I have LGD and a LOT of osta, but I have access to much better bulkers and cutters so I'm not quite sure what to do with these SARMs. Maybe finish a cycle out with LGD and add osta into a cutting cycle or something for joint support

 

[smith_69]

I have LGD and a LOT of osta, but I have access to much better bulkers and cutters so I'm not quite sure what to do with these SARMs. Maybe finish a cycle out with LGD and add osta into a cutting cycle or something for joint support

have an idea about how long you will run lg? i was thinking of tapering off the LG the last week and adding in osta- 8 week lg 4 weeks of osta

 

[BamBam0319]

have an idea about how long you will run lg? i was thinking of tapering off the LG the last week and adding in osta- 8 week lg 4 weeks of osta

I think you'll want to run ostarine longer than that, maybe try something like this?
LGD: 8/8/12/12/12
Osta: 0/0/0/15/15/20/20/20/20
So you'd overlap them by two weeks that way your osta will be closer to kicking in by the time you drop the LGD; osta doesn't seem to kick in till around week 3 or 4 I think.
I have OL Legend so I have 90 4mg pills. I'll probably do the same as I suggested to you, 5 weeks starting at 8mg and bumping to 12mg in week 3. That will use the whole bottle.

 

[Chevy]

Fair enough

I've little knowledge of ldg but thought it geared more towards a bulk, as for osta I've personally run it as part of a cut but I believed it to be more versatile.

 

[TheApex]

I would bulk with LGD and then cut with osta, if that's all I had access to.

With this do you mean as separate cycles, or does it not really matter because its only sarms?

I guess I'm asking if lgd 8 weeks, then pct. Then followup with osta for the same but cutting and still having pct?

And then I'm still unsure what to do with the others in this way, are they just pointless?

 

[BamBam0319]

With this do you mean as separate cycles, or does it not really matter because its only sarms?

I guess I'm asking if lgd 8 weeks, then pct. Then followup with osta for the same but cutting and still having pct?

And then I'm still unsure what to do with the others in this way, are they just pointless?

I'd personally do them as two separate cycles, yes. Just because they are SARMs doesn't mean they shouldn't be taken seriously. They are suppressive just like prohormones and steroids, just allegedly with less side effects.
Make sure you take adequate time off between pct and your next cycle.
What others are you talking about?

 

[TheApex]

Mate what are your goals? Bulking or cutting?

My opinion-

If cutting run the Epi at 30mg Ed for 6wks followed by nolva & hcgen for pct, gw could be thrown into pct also, end with some asin tapered off to close out pct. Need to get yourself an otc cycle assist tho as the hcgen doesn't cut it for on cycle use.

If bulking run the ldg 1ml Ed & osta 0.5ml Ed stacked for 8 wks, again nolva hcgen pct.

My thoughts at least.

This sounded good to me, but then I saw others disagree that know more than me. Haha

So if I'm understanding correctly the lgd and osta would be pointless together. A few people say its ok to run osta in pct, is there a firm answer on this, like maybe coincide with pct, then continue the nolva and asin without it (extended pct)?

Also you say GW is fine in pct, I hadn't seen that before. Is that for sure?

You see, I feel stuck! There's a lot of opinions in this business, and my problems are nothing compared to those on serious ****. Just first time jitters doing anything beyond prework and freakin creatine I guess.

 

[BamBam0319]

Definitely don't use ostarine in PCT. Golden rule: nothing suppressive in PCT.

 

[TheApex]

I'd personally do them as two separate cycles, yes. Just because they are SARMs doesn't mean they shouldn't be taken seriously. They are suppressive just like prohormones and steroids, just allegedly with less side effects.
Make sure you take adequate time off between pct and your next cycle.
What others are you talking about?

Ok, thanks man I appreciate it. And for others I meant the epi and gw. Could I add that in anywhere since I (or I think at least) have proper pct and AI for this level of gear? Would the gw help the cut, the epi the bulk? Or is that backwards.

Also my understanding is hcgen would be fine for on cycle support since there's nothing to liver toxifying in here... or am I wrong? The epi might actually need it, I can't recall.

Thanks again for helping me out bro.

 

[BamBam0319]

Ok, thanks man I appreciate it. And for others I meant the epi and gw. Could I add that in anywhere since I (or I think at least) have proper pct and AI for this level of gear? Would the gw help the cut, the epi the bulk? Or is that backwards.

Also my understanding is hcgen would be fine for on cycle support since there's nothing to liver toxifying in here... or am I wrong? The epi might actually need it, I can't recall.

Thanks again for helping me out bro.

What AI do you have again?
And by epi you mean epistane, not epiandro right? Epistane is good in any type of cycle IMO. For on cycle support I would get something like Olympus Labs Arimacare Pro, I don't think HCGen will cut it. GW will definitely help in a cut, osta and GW would be a good cutting stack. Epistane could be thrown in there too.
But since you've never cycled before, I would really recommend only running one compound at a time. Osta and GW would still be okay though because GW doesn't affect your hormones.

 

[Chevy]

This sounded good to me, but then I saw others disagree that know more than me. Haha

So if I'm understanding correctly the lgd and osta would be pointless together. A few people say its ok to run osta in pct, is there a firm answer on this, like maybe coincide with pct, then continue the nolva and asin without it (extended pct)?

Also you say GW is fine in pct, I hadn't seen that before. Is that for sure?

You see, I feel stuck! There's a lot of opinions in this business, and my problems are nothing compared to those on serious ****. Just first time jitters doing anything beyond prework and freakin creatine I guess.

Gw is non hormonal & can be run anytime, it doesn't need a pct. Some ppl will run gw thru their entire cycle & pct.

Like others are saying about being 1st cycle just keep it simple, just run the osta with gw or the epistane on its own, I can't comment about ldg since I've not used it.

If you run the Epi get a proper cycle support cuz sorry bro but hcgen is trash it's just a test booster.

Osta in pct is a huge No, it's suppressive, if you have heard otherwise it's from earlier studies before much was really known about it, some guys do use it as a bridge between cycles but that's not where your at for now.