My first Ostar1ne cycle (solo)

[Knightsbrah]

About to embark on my first cycle of any type of anabolic, been researching non stop for ages and probably read literally every thread ever made on ostarine - lots of conflicting info and looking for some clarity:

Plan on running Ostarine at no more than 15mg per day, for 4-6 weeks. I'm hoping this should be minimally suppressive. I should also clarify I'm not looking for huge gains or anything at all, I have a couple of old injuries, one being a torn hamstring that has become slightly reaggrivated in the last 1-2 weeks, so I feel the Ostarine may help me get my strength back.

I have some Nolva ready for PCT, hopefully won't need large dosing, maybe 20/20/10/10 at the most.

Now my questions:
I have some gyno from puberty (never used any kind of PED before), and I'd rather it didn't get any worse. I was considering using an OTC AI like Arimistane, but I wasn't sure if an AI is the right call with Ostarine as apparently is does not aromatise? What do you guys recommend I run alongside the Ostarine? For arguments sake let's say I do a 6 week run of 15mg, and 4 weeks PCT with Nolva. What is missing?

 

[muddertougher]

I'll have to find the study's I was reading but on multiple accounts I have read articles that raloxifene is just about the best treatment for gyno, being in some study's 10x the binding power to estrogen receptors in breast tissue to tomoxifene

 

[muddertougher]

It may be over kill but I have heard alot about tamox/tore as best pct in many conjunctions

 

[muddertougher]

Ralox deffinately not suitable as standalone but great for gyno

 

[ProteinBoy]

Add in an otc product like sup3r pct to the nolva and you'll be set. As for the gyno, have exemestane on hand and use it if you notice any issues.

 

[yates84]

Have you read through this thread?
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/270011-sarms-mk-gw.html

 

[yates84]

I'll have to find the study's I was reading but on multiple accounts I have read articles that raloxifene is just about the best treatment for gyno, being in some study's 10x the binding power to estrogen receptors in breast tissue to tomoxifene

Ralox is definitely the serm for treating gyno and it doesn't mess with IGF-1 like nolva does. That's why I reccomend it in my gyno reversal protocol. You can take a look at it here:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/276620-post-cycle-therapy.html

 

[UncleSarm]

Have you read through this thread?
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/270011-sarms-mk-gw.html

This ^^^ for sure.

 

[Knightsbrah]

Okay sweet so my setup seems okay, I'll get the arimistane to run alongside the Ostarine. Could you clarify something for me? I thought the elevated E2 associated with Osta was not via the aromatisation process, so why is the AI still beneficial for controlling the estrogen?

 

[yates84]

Okay sweet so my setup seems okay, I'll get the arimistane to run alongside the Ostarine. Could you clarify something for me? I thought the elevated E2 associated with Osta was not via the aromatisation process, so why is the AI still beneficial for controlling the estrogen?

Anything that interacts with the androgen receptor can indirectly elevate estrogen. Whether or not a compound interacts with aromatase is irrelevant. I'm not a big believer of ai's being used on cycle unless absolutely necessary. Estrogen is an important part of the muscle building process and even libido/sexual function. No need to crush estrogen unnecessarily. Armistane is ok, more of a cortisol modulator than an ai but it won't do anything for high estrogen sides. You want to have exemestane on hand for that.

 

[TNlifting]

Okay sweet so my setup seems okay, I'll get the arimistane to run alongside the Ostarine. Could you clarify something for me? I thought the elevated E2 associated with Osta was not via the aromatisation process, so why is the AI still beneficial for controlling the estrogen?

Correct me if I'm wrong yates84 (as he is the sarm guru lol), but I believe the estrogen related sides from ostarine are more so from the fact that ostarine will cause total testosterone to fall too low in relation to e2. So it's not so much that osta raises e2, but more from the imbalance of total t to e2. Does that make sense?

 

[NoAddedHmones]

Correct me if I'm wrong yates84, but I believe the estrogen related sides from ostarine are more so from the fact that ostarine will cause total testosterone to fall too low in relation to e2. So it's not so much that osta raises e2, but more from the imbalance of total t to e2. Does that make sense?

Its more so the fact that Ostarine significantly lowers SHBG which allows for more Free T to convert to E. If it was solely related to total T falling there would be a corresponding reduction in aromatisation. Well thats my consensus ive formed anyways FWIW.

 

[TNlifting]

Its more so the fact that Ostarine significantly lowers SHBG which allows for more Free T to convert to E. If it was solely related to total T falling there would be a corresponding reduction in aromatisation. Well thats my consensus ive formed anyways FWIW.

Makes sense. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[yates84]

Both are correct imo, an imbalance of the ratio of testosterone to estrogen can also cause estrogen sides as well as shbg being lowered.

 

[Knightsbrah]

Both are correct imo, an imbalance of the ratio of testosterone to estrogen can also cause estrogen sides as well as shbg being lowered.

Okay thank you (and everyone else)- so due to me being (potentially) gynecomastia prone, would you recommend I run anything alongside the ostarine or not? And for PCT I'll run nolva and likely some OTC PCT product.

 

[yates84]

Okay thank you (and everyone else)- so due to me being (potentially) gynecomastia prone, would you recommend I run anything alongside the ostarine or not? And for PCT I'll run nolva and likely some OTC PCT product.

Just have exemestane on hand and you should be gtg

 

[bashar]

Hello, I am 44, I lift hard but i needed the extra push to break the barrier, stated Ostarine 40 days ago, 25mg/day for 60 day "EPG OSTALEAN". I have never ventured with pro hormones and I am too scared to take the risk at my age. I am getting excellent results with Ostarine, starting to get shredded, seeing my veins pop finally, energy and focus are great. I have nothing but positive to say about this,there is no need for PCT, but i will be starting PES Erase PRO soon, just to be on the safe side. If you need any help let me know.

PS; I had some really low energy days at the gym, OSTA was the suspect....But no, i just did not sleep enough, you need lots of quality sleep to see gains, something i am still learning!

 

[yates84]

Hello, I am 44, I lift hard but i needed the extra push to break the barrier, stated Ostarine 40 days ago, 25mg/day for 60 day "EPG OSTALEAN". I have never ventured with pro hormones and I am too scared to take the risk at my age. I am getting excellent results with Ostarine, starting to get shredded, seeing my veins pop finally, energy and focus are great. I have nothing but positive to say about this,there is no need for PCT, but i will be starting PES Erase PRO soon, just to be on the safe side. If you need any help let me know.

PS; I had some really low energy days at the gym, OSTA was the suspect....But no, i just did not sleep enough, you need lots of quality sleep to see gains, something i am still learning!

So....why isn't there a need for pct? Enlighten me, please.

 

[bashar]

I am going for PES EREASE PRO+, it is a form of PCT "to be on the safe side", most research i read says orstrine does not increase estrogen like pro hormones, I am seeing great results so far without any side effects.

 

[yates84]

I am going for PES EREASE PRO+, it is a form of PCT "to be on the safe side", most research i read says orstrine does not increase estrogen like pro hormones, I am seeing great results so far without any side effects.

I think you need to read both of the links I provided in this thread. Ostarine has been shown to be suppressive at only 3mg, you are taking over 8 times that amount. You have been mislead my friend, better form a plan asap. Erase is a good product but not as a sole pct, you need a serm.

 

[bashar]

if you have more enlightenment please share it, maybe you know better, this is what this form is about...

 

[bashar]

I have this one but NOT sure if its a good idea because its a PCT but contains ostarine as well?!


EPG Arime Stage PCT 50

Arime Stage PCT 50 is a comprehensive formula that was created with one objective: to help you take your body from being in a post-cycle recovery state to an anabolic build-more-muscle state!

Experience the new definition of PCT with Arime Stage PCT 50 by EPG!



Supplement Facts

Serving Size: 2 Capsules
Servings per container: 30

Amount per serving

Estrogen Inhibitor Blend - 125 mg
Androst 3,5-dien-7, 17-dione, Grape Seed Extract

Testosterone Booster Complex - 375 mg
Bulbine Natalensis, Eurycoma longifolia, Avena setvia, Epimedium, Mucuna pruriens Extract

Liver Support - 100 mg
Milk Thistle & N-Acetyl Crystine

3b-hydroxy-etioallocholan-17-one - 50mg
Ostarine Mk-2866 - 12.5 mg

 

[yates84]

if you have more enlightenment please share it, maybe you know better, this is what this form is about...

Please read through both of the links I posted in this thread, one is a complete pct guide that I wrote and the other is about 120 pages worth of sarms Q&A that I started about a year ago. You are welcome to ask questions in the threads themselves or my inbox is always open.

 

[Knightsbrah]

I have this one but NOT sure if its a good idea because its a PCT but contains ostarine as well?!


EPG Arime Stage PCT 50

Arime Stage PCT 50 is a comprehensive formula that was created with one objective: to help you take your body from being in a post-cycle recovery state to an anabolic build-more-muscle state!

Experience the new definition of PCT with Arime Stage PCT 50 by EPG!



Supplement Facts

Serving Size: 2 Capsules
Servings per container: 30

Amount per serving

Estrogen Inhibitor Blend - 125 mg
Androst 3,5-dien-7, 17-dione, Grape Seed Extract

Testosterone Booster Complex - 375 mg
Bulbine Natalensis, Eurycoma longifolia, Avena setvia, Epimedium, Mucuna pruriens Extract

Liver Support - 100 mg
Milk Thistle & N-Acetyl Crystine

3b-hydroxy-etioallocholan-17-one - 50mg
Ostarine Mk-2866 - 12.5 mg

I think what he's saying is you're going to need to purchase a SERM like Tamoxifen to run for 3-4 weeks after you discontinue the Ostarine, just to be safe

 

[yates84]

I have this one but NOT sure if its a good idea because its a PCT but contains ostarine as well?!


EPG Arime Stage PCT 50

Arime Stage PCT 50 is a comprehensive formula that was created with one objective: to help you take your body from being in a post-cycle recovery state to an anabolic build-more-muscle state!

Experience the new definition of PCT with Arime Stage PCT 50 by EPG!



Supplement Facts

Serving Size: 2 Capsules
Servings per container: 30

Amount per serving

Estrogen Inhibitor Blend - 125 mg
Androst 3,5-dien-7, 17-dione, Grape Seed Extract

Testosterone Booster Complex - 375 mg
Bulbine Natalensis, Eurycoma longifolia, Avena setvia, Epimedium, Mucuna pruriens Extract

Liver Support - 100 mg
Milk Thistle & N-Acetyl Crystine

3b-hydroxy-etioallocholan-17-one - 50mg
Ostarine Mk-2866 - 12.5 mg

No osta in pct, osta is suppressive and completely defeats the purpose of recovery. Not a good idea

 

[bashar]

I bought this thinking thats its a PCT, then i found out later that it has 12.5 OSTA inside, WTF?!

 

[bashar]

Thank you all for the advice, need to plan this right!

 

[yates84]

I bought this thinking thats its a PCT, then i found out later that it has 12.5 OSTA inside, WTF?!

That's just proof that some companies care nothing for the consumer, only the bottom line. Very sad.

 

[Knightsbrah]

Just taken my first 10mg of Osta. I'll try and remember to come back and log any effects I feel (not going to do a detailed training log etc, just if I notice anything that's clearly out of the ordinary)

 

[UncleSarm]

I am going for PES EREASE PRO+, it is a form of PCT "to be on the safe side", most research i read says orstrine does not increase estrogen like pro hormones, I am seeing great results so far without any side effects.

The only way you can say that without a doubt is if you have pre PCT blood results in your hands. If you don't, yates84 is giving you solid and safe advice. Osta suppression is dose and user dependent.

 

[bashar]

and i shall be following yates84 advice

 

[UncleSarm]

Just taken my first 10mg of Osta. I'll try and remember to come back and log any effects I feel (not going to do a detailed training log etc, just if I notice anything that's clearly out of the ordinary)

You need to be more specific than that. I saw an elephant walking down the street wearing red Nike Air Jordans and enjoying an ice-cream cone. That was definitely out of the ordinary. Was it the Osta? Possibly, but I had also just smoked some peyote, so maybe not.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

The only way you can say that without a doubt is if you have pre PCT blood results in your hands. If you don't, yates84 is giving you solid and safe advice. Osta suppression is dose and user dependent.

So is just about every other compound which effects the hpta.

 

[Knightsbrah]

Right I need some input:

I've been running Osta for 8 days now at 10mg, on the second/third day I felt like my gyno was looking worse, so I started taking my arimistane at 3 caps a day (75mg). 8 days in and after feeling around, I feel like I can say for certain there is extra lumpy breast tissue that wasn't there before. So I need some help, what should I do now? I have Nolva on deck (30x20mg).
I'm annoyed because I feel Osta is genuinely helping my injuries, but I don't want more gyno. Help would be appreciated

 

[Knightsbrah]

Bump

 

[bashar]

Not sure Osta will cause all this at the dosage you are taking and in such a short time, it's either a palcebo effect or you are overly allergic and you should stop immediately. Just my honest thought.

 

[Knightsbrah]

Not sure Osta will cause all this at the dosage you are taking and in such a short time, it's either a palcebo effect or you are overly allergic and you should stop immediately. Just my honest thought.

I can only ask you to trust me that the effect I've noticed in my nipples is quantifiable. My girlfriend said she's noticed too (Fml). I can feel lumps that never used to be there, I just must be extremely sensitive. What should I do in terms of Nolva/Ostarine and should I invest in a pharma AI? (I figured an OTC AI would be enough given the low Osta dose)

 

[bashar]

Then your body doesn't work well with Osta, stop it and try to get a blood test to know for sure. Nolva is more than enough 40/40/20/20, it's actually an overkill. But hey, if you are so worried then go for it...

 

[Knightsbrah]

Then your body doesn't work well with Osta, stop it and try to get a blood test to know for sure. Nolva is more than enough 40/40/20/20, it's actually an overkill. But hey, if you are so worried then go for it...

I'll start Nolva tomorrow (probably at 20mg). Do you recommend I cease the Ostarine tomorrow as well or run them both together for a short period?

Also, is an AI necessary here?

Gyno is a bitch.

Edit, just noticed you said stop the Ostarine. Also I want to clarify a don't think I'll be able to get bloods done.

 

[bashar]

If your body is responding so badly to ostarine then definitely stop it, there is no point in jumping to Nolva while taking it at the same time...I have been on it for 7 weeks so far 25mg a day with zero side effects, however I might need Nolva if my blood work is showing a problem.

 

[Knightsbrah]

If your body is responding so badly to ostarine then definitely stop it, there is no point in jumping to Nolva while taking it at the same time...I have been on it for 7 weeks so far 25mg a day with zero side effects, however I might need Nolva if my blood work is showing a problem.

Okay nolva begins tomorrow. Thanks. Will this help reverse any of the Breast tissue formation I've encountered these past few days?

 

[bashar]

Should do it, try to take a test booster along with d aspartic acid @ 3 grams. If the situation is sever then seek medical help, don't risk it.

 

[mrgoomba]

Was going to do osta myself with Nolva as PCT instead of clomid... need to get an AI or will this be sufficient? iv heard always have an AI on hand

 

[Knightsbrah]

Was going to do osta myself with Nolva as PCT instead of clomid... need to get an AI or will this be sufficient? iv heard always have an AI on hand

From what I've just experienced, I'd say run an AI or don't even run it at all. I'm very unhappy with what's happened to me right now.

 

[dfb11]

From what I've just experienced, I'd say run an AI or don't even run it at all. I'm very unhappy with what's happened to me right now.

I'm in the same boat after 3 weeks of an ostarine product. If you're gyno prone at all, I'd be very careful.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

If your body is responding so badly to ostarine then definitely stop it, there is no point in jumping to Nolva while taking it at the same time...I have been on it for 7 weeks so far 25mg a day with zero side effects, however I might need Nolva if my blood work is showing a problem.

You should really stop giving out advice if you have no idea what you are talking about.

All he needs to do is get on a low dose of an AI like aromasin or even full dose of inhibit E and it will clear up in a few days.

PS. Alot of people run nolva concurrently on cycle to prevent gyno related issues fyi. Not that i recommend doing it in this situation.

 

[bashar]

Thank you for your very kind words, the guy is extremely allergic to ostarine even at 10mg, taking Nolva with ostarine is a bad idea. He is experiencing a severe reaction in no time, not sure AI would solve his problem, since 10mg caused a reaction in 3 days, that's not a usually situation...

 

[Knightsbrah]

Appreciate the responses.
Given that I was only on 10mg Osta for 8 days I have ceased usage and began nolva at 20mg ED (considering 40 for the first couple of days). I'm still taking the arimistane as it is just an OTC product. I don't have a pharma grade AI on hand but I could get one within a week if need be. Hopefully discontinuation of Ostarine and introduction of Nolva sees some kind of regression in the breast tissue.

 

[BlockBuilder]

Just an FYI ostarine takes 14 days to even saturate the system. Unless your receptors are already primed due to usage of other androgens before the ostarine you aren't going to experience anything right off the bat.

 

[bashar]

Keep us updated, hopefully the Nolva will fix your issues and all the best to you.