Dosing Guide for Popular PH/DS

Jebrook

Jebrook

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Prohormone/Designer Steroid Info


Methylepitiostanol (Epistane)
2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol*
Recommended for beginners
Recommended dosage: 30-45 mg daily
Average Cycle Length: 4-6 weeks
Advanced Cycle Length: 6-8 weeks
Methylated: Yes
Toxicity Level: Low-Moderate
Estrogen Conversion: No
Half-life: ~6 hrs
DHT Based
Typical Uses: Lean bulk, cutting, recomp
Note: Epistane has become notorious for causing rebound gyno in some users. The best preventative measure is to run a suicidal AI after PCT. This compound is very dry and commonly causes joint issues. Thus, it is recommended to use joint support or stack it with an aromatizing compound. Epistane has oft been labeled as anti-estrogenic and offering some protection against gyno whilst on-cycle. However, this is debatable and has no truly substantiating proof to date. Due to it's relatively mild side effects and considerable strength, Epistane is a wildly popular compound for beginners and veterans alike, and is very versatile.

Halodrol
4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-1,4-diene-3b,17b-diol
Recommended for beginners
Recommended Dosage: 50-75mgs a day-experienced users can dose 100-150mg daily
Average Cycle Length: 4-6 weeks
Advanced Cycle
Length: 6-8 weeks
Methylated: Yes
Toxicity Level: Low-Moderate (Dose Dependant)
Estrogen Conversion: NO
Half-life: 12-16 hrs
Test based
Typical Uses: Bulking, lean bulking, recomp
Note: Halo considered to be a prohormone to Turinabol. This means a portion of this compound will convert into Turinabol. The amount of conversion in Turinabol can only be speculated, but it is believed to be very low(5-8%). The inactive metabolites of Halodrol have very anabolic properties of their own, so even without conversion, this drug is very powerful in it's own right. Halo is also a very popular beginning compound due to it's relatively low side effects, respectable potency, and versatility.

Trenavar/Trendione
Estra-4,9,11-triene-3,17-Dione
Not recommended for beginners
Recommended dosage: 60-90 mg daily-many users commonly take 120mg or more daily
Average Cycle Length: 4-6 weeks
Advanced Cycle Length: 6-8 weeks
Methylated: No
Toxicity Level: Moderate
Estrogen Conversion: No
Half-life: 6-8 hours
19-Nortestosterone (Nandrolone derivative)
Typical Uses: Stacking, lean bulking, cutting, recomp
Note:Trenavar is a prohormone to the veterinary steroid Trenbolone. Some experts have speculated the conversion into Trenbolone to be 20-30%. Note that the rate at which prohormones convert to the target hormones are only estimations and widely debated. The remainder is a powerful and active compound. Tren is probably one of the harshest of the non-methyls ph's and carries many similar sides to real Trenbolone and also has high likelihood of elevating prolactin levels, thus a cycle support and prolactin control are recommended. Tren sweats, sleeplessness, and blood pressure and lipid level changes are quite common with this pro-hormone.

Methyldiazarinol(Triumph)
3,3-azo-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol
Recommended for beginners
Recommended dosage: 30-60mg daily-advanced users may go as high as 100 mg daily
Average Cycle Length: 4-6 weeks
Advanced Cycle Length: 6-8 weeks
Methylated: Yes
Toxicity Level: Moderate
Estrogen Conversion: No
Half-life: 6 hrs
DHT based
Typical Uses: cutting, recomp, lean bulk
Note:


Dimethandrostenol(Dimethadrol)
2,17α-dimethyl-17β-hydroxy-5α-androst-2-ene
Not for beginners
Recommended dosage: 15-30 mg daily-some users report double that dosage
Average Cycle Length: 4-6 weeks
Advanced Cycle Length: 6-8 weeks
Methylated: Yes
Toxicity Level: Moderate
Estrogen Conversion: No
Half-life: 6-8 hrs
DHT based
Typical Uses: Bulking, Lean bulking, recomp
Note:


Methylstenbolone (M-Sten)
2,17α-dimethyl-5α-androsta-1-en-17β-ol-3-one
Not for beginners
Recommended dosage: 10-20 mg, although many users commonly take 30 mg or more a day
Average Cycle Length: 4-6 weeks
Advanced Cycle Length: 6-8 weeks
Methylated: Yes
Toxicity Level: Moderate
Estrogen Conversion: No
Half-life: 6 hrs
DHT based
Typical Uses: Bulking, Lean bulking, recomp
Note:


Dymethazine (DMZ)
2,17-dimethyl-5-androstan-17-ol-3,3'-azine
Many beginners use this but it is not a common recommendation
Recommended dosage: 30-45 mg daily
Average Cycle Length: 4-6 weeks
Advanced Cycle Length: 6-8 weeks
Methylated: Yes
Toxicity Level: Moderate
Estrogen Conversion: No
Half-life: 12-16 hrs
DHT based
Typical Uses: Bulking, lean bulking, recomp
Note:


Methyl 1 AD(Alpha 1 or M1AD)
methyl-1-Etiocholenolol-Epietiocholanolone or 17-methyl-1-androstenediol
Not suitable for beginners
Recommended Dosage: 20-40 mg daily
Average Cycle Length: 3-4 weeks
Methylated: Yes
Toxicity Level: Moderate-High(Dosage and user dependant)
Estrogen Conversion: No
Half-life: 5-6 hrs
DHT based
Typical Uses: Bulking, strength
Note: Like other Diol compounds, M1 Alpha has the possibility to convert in an undetermined amount to Methyl-1-Testosterone but is also an active steroid on it's own.

Methyldrostanalone (Superdrol)
17β-Hydroxy-2α,17α-dimethyl-5α-androstane-3-one
Advanced users only
Recommended Dosage: 10-20 mg daily- some users will attempt 30-40 mg daily
Average cycle length: 2-4 weeks max
Methylated: Yes
Toxicity Level: High
Estrogen Conversion: No
Half-life: ~8 hr
DHT based
Typical Uses: Bulking, lean bulking, strength
Note: SD is very liver toxic and heavy on sides like blood pressure, lipids, etc. A very comprehensive cycle support regimen and TUDCA are highly recommended. This is widely considered one of the harshest and most potent steroids of all. Never use Superdrol as a first cycle. Use is only recommended after completing at least 3 successful methylated cycles.

Methoxygonadiene(Max LMG)
13-ethyl-3-methoxy-gona-2,5(10)dien-17-one
Recommended Dosage: 50-120mgs a day
Average Cycle Length: 4-6 weeks
Advanced Cycle Length: 6-8 weeks
Methylated: NO
Toxicity Level: Low
Estrogen conversion: NO *This has been widely debated
Half-life: 48-72 hrs
19-Nor derivative
Typical Uses: Stacking, bulking
Note: Because of the progestational effects, users should avoid stacking this compound with other gyno aggravating compounds. Max LMG can aromatize to estrogen in small amounts, however not to any significant degree, therefore an aromatase inhibitor would provide little protection against this compound's side-effects. Prolactin support is recommended.

Trestolone(MENT)
17β-hydroxy-7α-methylestr-4-en-3-one
Not for beginners
Recommended dosage: 50-100mg a day-many users experienced users take 150 mg or more daily
Average Cycle Length: 4-6 weeks
Advanced Cycle Length: 8-12 weeks
Methylated: Yes
Toxicity Level: Low-(Dose Dependant)
Estrogen Conversion: High(This is somewhat dosage and user dependent
Half-life: 2-4 hrs (depends on oral or transdermal administration)
19-Nor derivative
Typical Uses: Stacking, Test base, bulking, lean bulking
Note: This compound makes a great test base for methylated cycles. At lower doses(50-75) conversion to methyl estrogen is low but at 100 mg and higher an AI becomes necessary. Also important to note is that the extremely short half life of Trest requires frequent dosing to maintain stable levels of this anabolic in the bloodstream.

Hexadrone
6a-chloro-androst-4-en-17b-ol-3-one
Recommended for beginners
Recommended dosage: 50-150mgs a day Solo runs can reach 200mgs
Average Cycle Length: 4-6 weeks
Advanced Cycle Length: 6-8 weeks
Methylated: No
Toxicity Level: Low
Estrogen Conversion: NO (Anti Estrogenic)
Half-life: 6 hrs
Typical Uses: Stacking, lean bulking, cutting, recomp

Furaza
5a-androstanol[2,3]furazan-17b-tetrahydropyranol
Recommended dosage: 250-350 mg a day stacked. Solo runs can reach 5-600 mg daily
Average Cycle Length: 4-6 weeks
Advanced Cycle Length: 6-8 weeks
Methylated: No
Toxicity Level: Low
Estrogen Conversion: NO (Anti Estrogenic)
Half-life: 2-4 hrs depending upon administration
DHT based
Typical Uses: Stacking, recomp, cutting

M1 4ADD
17a-methyl-1,4-androstadiene-3,17diol
Not recommended for beginners
Recommended Dosage: 30-100mgs a day-some dose as high as 150mg daily
Average Cycle Length: 4-6 weeks
Advanced Cycle Length: 6-8 weeks
Methylated: Yes
Toxicity Level: Moderate-High(Dosage and user dependent)
Estrogen Conversion: Yes-Low to Moderate (dose dependent)
Half-life: 4-5 hrs
Test based
Typical Uses: Bulking, strength
Note: This is a prohormone to the steroid Dianabol. Conversion is estimated around 15% as well as conversion into dihydroboldenone. Thus sharing characteristics of both steroids. This is a "wet" compound, thus estrogen side effects should be expected. AI and plenty of cycle support are recommended.

Promagnon (P-Mag)
4-chloro-17α-methyl-androst-4-ene-3,17β-diol
Okay for beginners
Recommended dosage: 75-125 mg
Average cycle Length: 4-6 weeks
Advanced Cycle Length: 6-8 weeks
Methylated: Yes
Toxicity Level: Moderate
Estrogen Conversion: No
Half Life: 12 hrs
Typically used for: Bulking, lean bulking, and recomp

Desoxymethytestosterone (Pheraplex)
17a-methyl-etioallocholan-2-ene-17b-ol
Not for beginners
Recommended dosage: 40-60 mg daily
Avg Cycle Duration: 4 weeks
Advanced Cycle Duration: 6-8 weeks
Methylated: Yes
Toxicity:
Estrogen Conversion: No
Half-life:~9 hrs
Typical Uses: Bulking, strength
Note: DMT does not convert to estrogen, yet gyno and other estrogen related sides can be somewhat common due to it's low androgenic activity.

M1T
(5a, 17b)-17-Hydroxy-17-methylandrost-1-en-3-one
Advanced Users Only
Recommended dosage: 10-20 mg daily.
Avg Cycle Duration: 2-3 weeks
Advanced Cycle Duration: 3-6 weeks
Methylated: Yes
Toxicity: High
Estrogen Conversion: No
Half-life: Estimated at 16 hrs or more
Typical Uses: Bulking, strength

Methyl DHT Oxime(The One)
Nomenclature: 17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol-3-hydroxyimine
Okay for beginners
Recommended dosage: 75-125 mg daily
Average Cycle Duration: 4-6 weeks
Advanced Cycle Duration: 6-8 weeks
Methylated: Yes
Toxicity: Moderate
Estrogen Conversion: No
Half life:
Typical Uses: Lean bulking, cutting, and recomp

*The chemical names listed under nomenclature often vary for many compounds but are similiar. I simply put the most common names I've seen.

*To see the list of what is now banned refer to post #154 of this thread.

Advice for Beginners:
-It is recommended to begin cycling with one mild compound at an appropriate dosage. Be patient. You will need experience and longevity to achieve your physique goals, whatever they may be.
- It is best to begin with a single non-methylated compound and eventually progress to stronger methylated compounds and even stacking.
-Too often, new users are hungry for gains and want to jump into stacked cycles or use high risk compounds like Superdrol, for instance.
-It is very important to READ everything you can find about these drugs. And then reread it over and over until you genuinely understand how these compounds affect your body. I'm not referring to the gains they produce but the mechanisms of action they undergo within the body and all possible side effects.
-And last but not least, if you are not at least 21, you are not at an age to use these drugs without running a high risk of irreversible long term damage to your endocrine system and many other related health problems. It is imperative that these compounds only be used by individuals with fully matured endocrine systems. Ideally this means males in their mid twenties or later.

Stacking Guidelines:
-Never stack multiple compounds for a first cycle. This increases the risks and likelihood of adverse side effects and obscures what drug causes which side effect.
- If stacking, it is best two have prior experience with at least one of the two compounds, if not both. For a first stacked cycle, two non-methyls would be a good choice (example: 1 and 4 andro). Then a methyl and a non-methyl(preferably not a 19-Nor derivative). After that, a methyl + a 19 Nor derivative. And finally, two methylated compounds stacked. Stacking more than two methyls is not adviseable and adds serious risk to an already high-risk cycle. All advanced compounds and cycles should only be attempted after running 3+ successful cycles.
-Adequate cycle support and a proper PCT are the keys to successful cycling and minimizing the risks. Always use additional support with methylated compounds.
-Always have support and ancillaries at hand before starting a cycle.
-Choosing the right compounds to stack is also very important. A few examples:
-It is not advisable to stack 2 19-Nor derivatives for example, due to high risk of prolactin and methyl estrogen related sides. It can be done successfully though with the right support plan.

-Another potential pitfall to avoid is stacking two highly androgenic compounds(DHT derivatives for example). This would be very taxing on the hairline, prostate, and several other sides.

Check out these links for additional info on cycle support and proper PCT protocols:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/276620-post-cycle-therapy.html

Cycle Support FAQ-Coming Soon

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/olympus-labs/245626-olympus-labs-product.html

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/275427-andros-users-guide.html?highlight=Andros

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/270011-sarms-mk-gw.html

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/130577-steriods-dummies.html?highlight=Cycling+for+dummies

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/64820-designer-steroid-prohormone.html
 
Last edited:

NewAgeMayan

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Excellent idea man. The info itt, coupled with what can be found in logs, will be indespensible for most users who are looking at constructing a cycle using any of those compounds.
 
Jebrook

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Excellent idea man. The info itt, coupled with what can be found in logs, will be indespensible for most users who are looking at constructing a cycle using any of those compounds.
Thanks my friend. Hopefully the info is sound and others lend their knowledge as well.
 

hamdysayed

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Great job Jebrook thank u bro for this,
now we need a cycle assist guide with side effects solution kinda thread and we should be set.
 

NewAgeMayan

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Great job Jebrook thank u bro for this,
now we need a cycle assist guide with side effects solution kinda thread and we should be set.
Id imagine that would be a huge undertaking! But ya would be nice.
 

hamdysayed

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Id imagine that would be a huge undertaking! But ya would be nice.

It might be tough cos of politics, that's what yates84 said but maybe someone can list ingredients for certain phs.
anyways Jebrook anyway bro u can update this list with what results to expect from ph lie for example
epistane cut/bulk
dmz bulk etc
 
UncleSarm

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It might be tough cos of politics, that's what yates84 said but maybe someone can list ingredients for certain phs.
anyways Jebrook anyway bro u can update this list with what results to expect from ph lie for example
epistane cut/bulk
dmz bulk etc
Yes! Adding in what each PH is usually used for would be awesome. Great work!
 
Jebrook

Jebrook

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It might be tough cos of politics, that's what yates84 said but maybe someone can list ingredients for certain phs.
anyways Jebrook anyway bro u can update this list with what results to expect from ph lie for example
epistane cut/bulk
dmz bulk etc
I had thought about that last part, though the common answer is it is always diet and user dependant, but I certainly could. I had thought to possibly list the half-life of each compound as well. I didn't figure chemical names would really be necessary so I left those out.
 
clown007

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Subbed! Good thread!
 
yates84

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Great idea my man, solid info as always
 
dave39

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Sub. Thanks J! I love these guides you fellas have taken the time to put together for us all.
 
yates84

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so you really think trest is more toxic than epi??
Imo no. Trest is a 7a methyl so toxicity should be minimal at standard doses. Epistane is a 17a methyl so it will resist breakdown in the liver more making it more toxic. Do not underestimate epistane, it is a very strong ph and can have some really nasty sides for some users.
 
YouBet33

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Thanks for the info! Great idea
 
turff49

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Interesting. Nice going so far!
 

hamdysayed

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Imo no. Trest is a 7a methyl so toxicity should be minimal at standard doses. Epistane is a 17a methyl so it will resist breakdown in the liver more making it more toxic. Do not underestimate epistane, it is a very strong ph and can have some really nasty sides for some users.
I agree epistane messed me up but the results will be great, I gained about 20 lbs while on it it was my first cycle !
But it messed me up so bad n I felt like sh!it that I didn't feel going to the gym after I was done for 2 month so I lost it all..... just retained the knowledge and experience hahaha, if I run another methylated ph I will go overboard with support.
 
Jebrook

Jebrook

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so you really think trest is more toxic than epi??
No, I don't really think that is accurate. Good catch. Repped. I updated the post. I do think sides can be as bad on Trest, like bp and prostate when using high doses, but definitely not liver toxicity.
 
yates84

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No, I don't really think that is accurate. Good catch. Repped. I updated the post. I do think sides can be as bad on Trest, like bp and prostate when using high doses, but definitely not liver toxicity.
I missed it too :( repped as well
 
AustBenny

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Nice guide Jebrook.

I think you should add the chemical nomenclature for each as especially these days bottles always have some sort of convoluted name, they are not clearly marked to say something as simple as "Epistane" so you really need to compare the chemical nomenclature to ensure you're taking what you're supposed to be taking if that makes sense.

Also I noted you added a comment for some but not others saying "Suitable for beginners", "not suitable for beginners" but left that comment off some that probably really need, eg Superdrol, M1AD etc should be marked "Not suitable for beginners" or "Advanced only."

Maybe also make a note that MAX LMG has progestin/prolactin activity like you did for tren.
 
yates84

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Nice guide Jebrook.

I think you should add the chemical nomenclature for each as especially these days bottles always have some sort of convoluted name, they are not clearly marked to say something as simple as "Epistane" so you really need to compare the chemical nomenclature to ensure you're taking what you're supposed to be taking if that makes sense.

Also I noted you added a comment for some but not others saying "Suitable for beginners", "not suitable for beginners" but left that comment off some that probably really need, eg Superdrol, M1AD etc should be marked "Not suitable for beginners" or "Advanced only."

Maybe also make a note that MAX LMG has progestin/prolactin activity like you did for tren.
All great suggestions.
 
mountainman33

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Nice work J. You may want to add a caveat to the epi section: that it has a propensity for rebound estro post cycle after higher doses.
 
Jebrook

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Nice guide Jebrook.

I think you should add the chemical nomenclature for each as especially these days bottles always have some sort of convoluted name, they are not clearly marked to say something as simple as "Epistane" so you really need to compare the chemical nomenclature to ensure you're taking what you're supposed to be taking if that makes sense.

Also I noted you added a comment for some but not others saying "Suitable for beginners", "not suitable for beginners" but left that comment off some that probably really need, eg Superdrol, M1AD etc should be marked "Not suitable for beginners" or "Advanced only."

Maybe also make a note that MAX LMG has progestin/prolactin activity like you did for tren.
Nice work J. You may want to add a caveat to the epi section: that it has a propensity for rebound estro post cycle after higher doses.
All great suggestions guys. Duly noted, repped, and already added.
 
Jebrook

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I was contemplating adding half life of the compounds to help people determine when split dosing is needed. Also any other compounds people would like to see added to the list?
 
BamBam0319

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I was contemplating adding half life of the compounds to help people determine when split dosing is needed. Also any other compounds people would like to see added to the list?
I would definitely say half life is a good idea. And maybe M14ADD? I'm trying to remember all the stuff I used to use.
 
BamBam0319

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M1T
 
dave39

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I was contemplating adding half life of the compounds to help people determine when split dosing is needed. Also any other compounds people would like to see added to the list?
Alpha 1 maybe? :)
 
BamBam0319

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oyvind

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Nice work man. Thanx.
 

hamdysayed

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I would definitely say half life is a good idea. And maybe M14ADD? I'm trying to remember all the stuff I used to use.
Can 1 ad and 4ad still be found in thought that was long gone?
 
BamBam0319

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mountainman33

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I'd say OL THE1 (Methyl DHT Oxime) if you could ever find it again. Friggin love that stuff!
 
ZackD89

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Great reference post! I'm starting to think these should become stickied, or at least there should be a Beginner's Sticky thread that contains links to these types of posts.
 
BamBam0319

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hamdysayed

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Jebrook I think you should only have info on available ph in states or overseas.
 
BamBam0319

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Jebrook I think you should only have info on available ph in states or overseas.
You can find almost all of these somewhere in the world. Also people stocked up before the ban, so people might still have these compounds even if they aren't available anymore. Why not put the info out there just in case..?
 

hamdysayed

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You can find almost all of these somewhere in the world. Also people stocked up before the ban, so people might still have these compounds even if they aren't available anymore. Why not put the info out there just in case..?
Well that's a very valid point.
 

procore

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Been looking high and low for it. Would love some of that myself.;(
there's one at ebay, but expensive! I also found it at a German fitness shop, is it ok to post the link to the shop?
 
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