BP med question

[cg1403]

Hey bros,

New here. Started my first cycle off with 400mg test cyp per week. Noticed pretty quickly my BP was shooting up, went from 120s/60s to 150s/80s and I could feel my pulse in hands/feet and temples. Very irritating, not sure how people can live with it. A friend of mine gave me some of his Teva Propanolol to use for the time. It's a beta blocker used to treat anxiety, fast pulse and high BP. I figure I better get my BP under control cause I'd like to add a little bit of Mast to my stack. So hopefully this will work right? Also a recommended dose would be awesome as well if anybody has an idea. Also running Armoasin for gyno.

 

[AustBenny]

I would be very careful messing around with pharma blood pressure medication esp when it sounds like this is made more for anxiety induced blood pressure than the raise in blood pressure caused by test.

It's basically an increase in your red blood cell count and increased volume of blood. Go give blood regularly, that should help. There's plenty of "natty" cycle support supplements that you can take that will also assist with blood pressure before you resort to more extreme measures.

Hope this helps.

 

[cg1403]

Thanks! A buddy of mine said test cyp shouldn't be causing it so quickly but I can't really think of anything else that would be the cause, only difference is the cyp. Not a huge amount of anxiety over it either especially when its only borderline high (sometimes its in the 140s/70s) when I test, but I do notice it and it does get annoying to me. What else would you recommend for "natty" stuff? I've been taking garlic supplements and low dose aspirin which I was going to stop taking. I guess you couldn't give a definitive answer but would you think the mast would make it worse? And do you think it's okay to leave it as is just slightly high until my cycle is over?

 

[AustBenny]

As I said

(a) Go give some blood.

(b) Coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10) and Hawthorne Berry are both well known natural alternatives to assist with high blood pressure. You can find them in most if not all cycle support supplements eg CEL Cycle Assist, OL Ar1macare Pro, LGI Damage Control.

(c) The aspirin is good, why stop it?

(d) You will probably have to cope with slightly elevated blood pressure but any or all of the above will assist.

Cheers

EDIT: Sorry, I missed the last part of your question. Adding the mast COULD make it worse. I am running mast at the moment and I haven't noticed any worsening but I'm also running tren so that would be the culprit if anything. I would basically wait until you are comfortable and have things under control (not that they sound out of control) before adding anything else.

 

[cg1403]

Thanks again my friend. I will follow your advice! Just looked into it and I think I'd rather run EQ if anything later on, my bf is still a little high and I'd rather bulk up right now. Will keep on the aspirin, figured I'd go off if everyone said to go ahead with the Propanolol.

 

[furion]

Hey bros,

New here. Started my first cycle off with 400mg test cyp per week. Noticed pretty quickly my BP was shooting up, went from 120s/60s to 150s/80s and I could feel my pulse in hands/feet and temples. Very irritating, not sure how people can live with it. A friend of mine gave me some of his Teva Propanolol to use for the time. It's a beta blocker used to treat anxiety, fast pulse and high BP. I figure I better get my BP under control cause I'd like to add a little bit of Mast to my stack. So hopefully this will work right? Also a recommended dose would be awesome as well if anybody has an idea. Also running Armoasin for gyno.

Propranolol is a less than desirable med for that purpose for a few reasons. It's a non-selective beta blocker- meaning it will inhibit sympathetic input into heart as well as the bronchioles. The former can reduce exercise capacity- essentially by placing a governor on your heart rate when you require it to increase during exertion and the latter can cause issues in hypersensitive airways (if you have any history of asthma). Although it may reduce your blood pressure- it is not necessarily functioning on a recognized androgen-mediated cause of hypertension.

A more targeted approach (if you were to go down the pharmaceutical route) would be an ACE (angiotensin converting enzyme) inhibitor or an AT2 (angiotensin type II receptor) antagonist. Put simply testosterone and its downstream metabolites can increase renin and ACE expression which consequentially increase AT2 and ultimately increase blood pressure. The idiosyncrasies of this appear to be result of genetic polymorphisms of certain CYP enzymes.

150/80 isn't an immediate concern- especially considering your nominal BP. If your cardiovascular health is in check (cholesterol, lipoproteins, ect)- I would be more inclined to suggest using an OTC product like CEL Cycle Assist whilst your on cycle and during PCT.

 

[criticalbench]

Inderal, aka Propanolol would be one of my last choices for for blood pressure control on cycle due to its non-selective nature and highly inferior capabilities compared to third generation alpha/beta blockers like coreg. Coreg is far superior on cycle due to its abilities to limit and neutralize oxidative stress, calm and relax the left ventricle which is stressed with steroids leading to left ventricular hypertrophy, and peripheral arterial vessel vasodilation, functioning as a calcium channel blocker at higher doses, and more importantly exhibiting a direct effect on the aorta.

Beta Blockers like propanolol, you can not just take as you can't just stop them. They can have a harsh rebound effective where your heart rate will accelerate to dangerously high levels in addition to blood pressure.

Water retention is most likely your issue for direct elevations on cycle, so a mild diuretic like HCTZ at 12.5mg daily would be a solid start. If needed, an ACE Inhibitor like enalapril would be a good second option.

Personally, I would never cycle without running Coreg, and an Ace Inhibitor for cardioprotective effects. If your doctor wont manage you, the best you could do otc would be,


500mg Terminalia Arjuna BID (Reduce stress on and strength the left ventricle)
200mg L-Theanine BID (Reduce stress and promote vasodilation)
200mg Potassium Nitrate TID or QID (For direct arterial vasodilation)

With a blood pressure of 150/80, a pulse pressure of 70 and a MAP of 103.3.. I would not be happy. I would be concerned and at the physician office. I would never be comfortable with a pulse pressure over 60.

 

[cg1403]

You guys seem to have extensive knowledge on this stuff.

I guess I'll be chucking those pills. What a waste of 50 bucks.

I'll see about getting into doctors office today. All else aside I am a perfectly healthy 23 yr old, cholesterol is at pretty close to perfect levels, however I think my good cholesterol level is just slightly lower than optimal.

 

[Gutterpump]

Propanolol as you said is a beta blocker. The main use for this on cycle: I typically implement it if using an oral, and only for the first two weeks until spikes in BP calm down.

For overall BP support, I don't mess around much with herbs and such, I take losartan or olmesartan, 2 VERY good A.R.B's (angiotension receptor blocker) that have very few if any sides, and can be pro-sexual, in fact it can act like cialis in a way and give you better wood. Other BP meds (ACE Inhibitors, diuretics, etc) can have a negative effect on the penor, so be careful.

Supplement wise, I take Ubiquinol. But I will never ever ever rely solely on supplements for blood pressure support.

edit: I once tried a stack of BP support supplements, and then visited the doctor's office to get a proper BP reading. The supplements had no effect whatsoever on BP increases. Take that FWIW

 

[Gutterpump]

(c) The aspirin is good, why stop it?
.

I spoke with a doctor about this. Aspirin will not help lower BP. What it will do is help prevent strokes/clots when hematocrit is high due to cycling.

 

[cg1403]

I spoke with a doctor about this. Aspirin will not help lower BP. What it will do is help prevent strokes/clots when hematocrit is high due to cycling.

Thanks buddy. I wasn't sure if it was bro science or what but I did start taking it as others had recommended, that in mind, I think my BP spikes and goes down throughout the week dependant on when I've pinned. Might be psychosomatic but it seems higher today after pinning 1cc this morning, and usually on the second or third day.

I also realized I've probably been checking incorrectly, as I do not wait before sitting down and checking (Internet says 5 minutes of sitting beforehand.) The first time I check my pulse is usually around 88 bpm thats testing almost right away afrer sitting. Next time around I'm at least 5 points lower in systolic and diastolic pressure and my bpm is also a little lower (usually getting into the pre-hypertensive levels.) I usually don't check after that point but maybe a minute or two would have passed. One check I had 130s/70s and my pulse was 66 and I definitley felt more relaxed on that one. Guess it's probably good to continue to monitor with that in mind but I believe it's going to make a big difference.

 

[Gutterpump]

No problem, glad to help out. BP is something I'm very serious about.

I aim to keep mine at 120/60, on and off cycle, but can only do this with drugs. Before drugs, off cycle my BP was 135/80. It's pre-hypertensive, but still not a good place to be sitting at.

 

[Gutterpump]

Btw, if you're looking for good readings, you may want to invest in a home blood pressure monitor that does 3 tests in a row and tells you the average. Those ones are very trustworthy.

 

[cg1403]

9

No problem, glad to help out. BP is something I'm very serious about.

I aim to keep mine at 120/60, on and off cycle, but can only do this with drugs. Before drugs, off cycle my BP was 135/80. It's pre-hypertensive, but still not a good place to be sitting at.

Agreed, and that's why I'm here to make sure I'm doing this right. Very attentive to learn. Does your doc prescribe medications for you both and off cycle for your BP?

Also another question maybe you can help me with, aside from the high BP it almost seems like my gear isn't working anymore. I started at 300mg per week for two weeks, through this I gained about 5 or 6 lbs which I'm assuming was water weight. I've been on 400 mg for almost two weeks now as well and the scale hasn't moved 1lb. I did cut out some carbs in my diet recently (just started on a 25% carb, 35% fat 40% protien 2800 cal split) but that's it. Gym has been cosistent at 5-6 days a week from the start and starting this week I've been implementing some morning cardio and bicep feeder workouts in the occasional evening, Im also with a trainer two days out of the week to help push through the boundaries. Think I need to up the dose or add something else (as long as BP is under control.) I guess I just figured I'd be getting quicker progress than this. I was using this gear on a trt dose through the summer with labs done (jumped from 350 free test to 680 free test on 100mg week.) Also get it from a very good friend who's been in the game for a very long time so I don't think quality is an issue.

 

[Gutterpump]

9

Agreed, and that's why I'm here to make sure I'm doing this right. Very attentive to learn. Does your doc prescribe medications for you both and off cycle for your BP?

Also another question maybe you can help me with, aside from the high BP it almost seems like my gear isn't working anymore. I started at 300mg per week for two weeks, through this I gained about 5 or 6 lbs which I'm assuming was water weight. I've been on 400 mg for almost two weeks now as well and the scale hasn't moved 1lb. I did cut out some carbs in my diet recently (just started on a 25% carb, 35% fat 40% protien 2800 cal split) but that's it. Gym has been cosistent at 5-6 days a week from the start and starting this week I've been implementing some morning cardio and bicep feeder workouts in the occasional evening, Im also with a trainer two days out of the week to help push through the boundaries. Think I need to up the dose or add something else (as long as BP is under control.) I guess I just figured I'd be getting quicker progress than this. I was using this gear on a trt dose through the summer with labs done (jumped from 350 free test to 680 free test on 100mg week.) Also get it from a very good friend who's been in the game for a very long time so I don't think quality is an issue.

Sure, I can help out with some advice, np.

Firstly, yes my doctor prescribes my off cycle BP support. I specifically asked him for an ARB, since ACE inhibitors can cause ED/sides. I do not speak with him about cycling, and any on-cycling medicating I do myself. He does know I am on TRT though.

I order extra losartan (or now, olmesartan) from an Indian pharmacy, for a very very low price (but I can't post the source). What I normally do, is up my dose to 150% while on. So say I am taking only 50mg of losartan a day (pre-cycle), I will up it to 75mg daily while on, and adjust from there.

Regarding your current cycle, maybe give it some time, because as you said - your source is good. If you manage to get a grip on your BP, you can definitely add in some mast. It will increase your free test. Are you bulking, cutting, or recomping right now? Can you post up your stats and diet?

 

[cg1403]

Sure, I can help out with some advice, np.

Firstly, yes my doctor prescribes my off cycle BP support. I specifically asked him for an ARB, since ACE inhibitors can cause ED/sides. I do not speak with him about cycling, and any on-cycling medicating I do myself. He does know I am on TRT though.

I order extra losartan (or now, olmesartan) from an Indian pharmacy, for a very very low price (but I can't post the source). What I normally do, is up my dose to 150% while on. So say I am taking only 50mg of losartan a day (pre-cycle), I will up it to 75mg daily while on, and adjust from there.

Regarding your current cycle, maybe give it some time, because as you said - your source is good. If you manage to get a grip on your BP, you can definitely add in some mast. It will increase your free test. Are you bulking, cutting, or recomping right now? Can you post up your stats and diet?

I can definitley try... what stats are you looking for exactly? I don't have a fixed diet or meal plans per say, I just fit whatever works into my macros and log it. Here's an example from the other day and relatively close to what I'd eat through out the week (replace pork with chicken however and usually include 4 solid meals per day)

Meal 1

2 scoop casein protein
2 tsp organic flax oil
1 cup skim milk
1 banana
1 cup blueberry

Meal 2
4.5 cup baby spinach
1.5 cup spring mix
200g avacado
1 can skipjack tuna
1 large hard boiled egg

Meal 3
400g pork
1/6 package crispy pork shake & bake
2 cup broccoli & cauliflower
1/4 cup unsweetened apple sauce

Snacks
3x casein protein scoop throughout day
2x strawberry flavored low fat greek yogurt container
6oz spice seasoned t bone steak
.5 cups Ben and Jerry cherry Garcia

2850cal macros were 27% carb 30% fat 43% protein

I can try and get you stats and excuse the ignorance for not knowing which you'd like. BF is somewhere around 15-19%

I was completely out of shape about 6 maybe 7 months ago now. Was abusing drugs and alcohol frequently, eating fast food almost everyday. Was not good. Got into the gym and started training and dieting rigorously. I have a good base on me now which I can post a photo of in one minute, this was accomplished with no steroids and only a trt dose of test cyp for 5 weeks.

 

[cg1403]

Hopefully the picture works which was an update from about a month ago. I'd like to put some mass on and if possible continue to drop BF. Hoping to get to about 10% eventually and 220lbs. Sitting at 205lbs and as I said maybe 15-19% BF.

 

[Gutterpump]

How tall are you and how much do you currently weight? TBH I think your diet is fine overall though. Are you going to be on for 12 weeks total?

Btw, congrats on turning things around getting serious about your health

 

[cg1403]

How tall are you and how much do you currently weight? TBH I think your diet is fine overall though. Are you going to be on for 12 weeks total?

Btw, congrats on turning things around getting serious about your health

I appreciate it! Pretty much lost everything at one point but it was a eye opener and now I'm dedicated to achieving in all apsects and never looking back!


Currently weigh 205lbs, was somewhere around 197-198 in that photo. Current height is 6' 1" but don't expect that one to change at all.

Wanting to stay on for 12 weeks or until my 3 vials of cyp are done (only have two left as of today.) After this I'd like to bridge with SARMs for two months before going back on with more of a cutting stack most likely. But I guess that depends on advice here, where I'm at with my physique and my BP and overall health.

 

[Gutterpump]

Oh ok, yeah I think your diet is fine then. You could always add 300cals and see if it helps, by adding a shot of olive oil in the AM and one in the PM, and go from there.

Beware that SARMs can also shut you down to a degree. Some more than others. I definitely don't like seeing them included in PCT.

 

[cg1403]

Oh ok, yeah I think your diet is fine then. You could always add 300cals and see if it helps, by adding a shot of olive oil in the AM and one in the PM, and go from there.

Beware that SARMs can also shut you down to a degree. Some more than others. I definitely don't like seeing them included in PCT.

PCT with clomid, then run sarms. Was thinking ostarine and S4? What would you suggest? Should I just cruise through on test cyp as well?

 

[criticalbench]

Propanolol as you said is a beta blocker. The main use for this on cycle: I typically implement it if using an oral, and only for the first two weeks until spikes in BP calm down.

For overall BP support, I don't mess around much with herbs and such, I take losartan or olmesartan, 2 VERY good A.R.B's (angiotension receptor blocker) that have very few if any sides, and can be pro-sexual, in fact it can act like cialis in a way and give you better wood. Other BP meds (ACE Inhibitors, diuretics, etc) can have a negative effect on the penor, so be careful.

Supplement wise, I take Ubiquinol. But I will never ever ever rely solely on supplements for blood pressure support.

edit: I once tried a stack of BP support supplements, and then visited the doctor's office to get a proper BP reading. The supplements had no effect whatsoever on BP increases. Take that FWIW

An ACE will not have any more negative side effects from an ARB except a dry cough for the most part. I would not go as far as saying it will have a more negative effect. I prefer ACE over ARB, but that is just me.

I truly prefer Coreg for all the reasons I listed above though. 12.5mg Coreg BID + 10mg Enalapril BID does great.

 

[DonnieM]

Hijacking thread. What if a person is allready on Metoprolol and need to lower bp on cycle, is just bumping the dose best practise or is there any other rec method?

 

[Gutterpump]

This thread is getting dangerously close to medical advice I honestly don't know enough to give advice on beta blockers, and everyone, please check with a physician before starting on any drug.

OP - don't worry yourself about cruising on test for a long time. Only do that if you're ever forced to go on TRT. There's a lot involved and it can be high maintenance at first, plus once you decide to cruise, it's more or less a lifelong decision because you'll never get your true natural levels back.

 

[criticalbench]

Hijacking thread. What if a person is allready on Metoprolol and need to lower bp on cycle, is just bumping the dose best practise or is there any other rec method?

NO.. DO NOT INCREASE YOUR METOPROLOL DOSE on your own. If you are pharmacologically managed, go to your doc and tell him it is not working. A beta blocker is more for rate control and rhythm control and does not directly act to dilate vessels in a way an ACE Inhibitor would; rather it takes the workload off the heart. There are only two current beta blockers that do this and they are 3rd generations, coreg with alpha blocking properties and nebivolol with NO production properties.

Go to your doctor if your pressures are not managed. An increase in dose may not be clinically appropriate for your current situation.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Bumping an old thread here because my doctor added 12.5mg hctz to my telmisartan and want to see if anyone else uses diuretics for blood pressure. Anyone know of any interactions to be concerned about with all the regular supplements discussed on this forum?

 

[Smont]

I know that diuretics do make your blood pressure go down but i dont know of any1 specifically taking them for that purpose. Ive had high blood always, nothing crazy but when id see the dr. Right before boxing matches sometimes i wouldn't get cleared for fights. Taking the diuretics leading up to fights to make weight id always pass

 

[Smont]

It was just a bonus i guesd