Testosterone went from 609 to 997 and I feel no different.

[rkc21]

My testosterone went from 609 to 997 and free testosterone went from 14.5 to 24.5, all taken in the morning 8 weeks apart. I feel and look no different.

I am 32yo male, 6 foot, 180 pounds with an athleticframe and have been working out religiously since I was 18. I have been on a slump in bodybuilding for many, many years. No amount of diet change, different workout routines, or supplements helped. Just a long plateau. So I went to an anti-aging clinic and the doctor did a workup and prescribed me clomid, dhea, and pregnenolone, indefinitely (and if I wanted to do it long term/permanently he said it is safe). Btw I do not rule out TRT in my future once I'm past 40.
As indicated by the labs, there was a huge jump in my testosterone and free testosterone, but in reality I feel and look no different. My diet is clean, my stress is low, and I sleep plenty.

Is this common? At what test level does one normally see dramatic changes in their physique? My goal now is to get my testosterone over 1200 by adding some OTC test boosters with a complete diet change with focus on foods to increase testosterone.. is this a realistic goal? I'm not sure how much diet and OTC test supps will help so if anyone has any input please let me know.

 

[liftin_fofive]

OTC test boosters aren't a whole lot of good honestly IMO

 

[jgntyce]

What was the daily dosage of each that you were prescribed?

 

[rkc21]

What was the daily dosage of each that you were prescribed?

Clomid 50mg every other day, 30 preg daily, 25 dhea daily

 

[GetRekt]

Both are right in the middle of normal range, it's not a linear relationship. Not surprising that you didn't notice a difference.

 

[muchstronger2]

Clomid 50mg every other day, 30 preg daily, 25 dhea daily

Did you notice any visual disturbance / floater appearing during / after the course of Clomid?

 

[EasyEJL]

I have been on a slump in bodybuilding for many, many years. No amount of diet change, different workout routines, or supplements helped. Just a long plateau.

So your hormones were all inside reasonable normal range and you decided to try pharmaceuticals to break a slump? Have you tried a professional coach / trainer (not an LA Fitness trainer but a real one) / dietician?

 

[JudoJosh]

You can do a huge drastic change to your routine and see if that helps kick you out of the funk and back to progressing. Something like a short PSMF stint or velocity diet might help. I think Dan John used to do high rep front squat routines every so often to help kick him out of funks

 

[rkc21]

Did you notice any visual disturbance / floater appearing during / after the course of Clomid?

No

So your hormones were all inside reasonable normal range and you decided to try pharmaceuticals to break a slump? Have you tried a professional coach / trainer (not an LA Fitness trainer but a real one) / dietician?

It's beyond a slump. I mentioned many, many years. It's been about 7 years of a solid plateau. I used to be a trainer in college so I have some connections. I agree a trainer/coach helps you to push you to your limits, but I have hit that limit with them.

You can do a huge drastic change to your routine and see if that helps kick you out of the funk and back to progressing. Something like a short PSMF stint or velocity diet might help. I think Dan John used to do high rep front squat routines every so often to help kick him out of funks

I will look into it. I did a 20 rep squat routine many times. I literally pulled over my car after almost every workout to vomit. Legs kill me.

 

[EasyEJL]

It's beyond a slump. I mentioned many, many years. It's been about 7 years of a solid plateau. I used to be a trainer in college so I have some connections. I agree a trainer/coach helps you to push you to your limits, but I have hit that limit with them.

Not saying you are guilty of this, but I've heard literally hundreds of times "I've tried everything" from someone who says they are a "hardgainer" but then when questioned for details its awfully sketchy in terms of calories, macros, workout routines, etc. I'd be happy to look at some of what you have tried and see what I can recommend. At 6' and 180 unless there is something else going wrong there is still a good bit of progress you should be able to make - whether the progress be first in strength then back to size or vice versa.

 

[rkc21]

I understand, but I think I have tried everything besides pinning. I'm also 5'11 but I round up to 6 lol. All my diets are on an excel sheet with the exact amount of calories, fats, carbs, and sugars in each so if you PM your email I wouldn't mind you checking it out. I am currently on a "testosterone" diet since I am bulking and weigh 189. But normally I weigh 170 and look my best around that weight. I'm trying to upload a photo but it won't let me, I think I need 50 posts to do that and I'm at 49 so I'm going to cut this short and just reply again in a few minutes when I hit 50.

 

[rkc21]

Thought I would attach this image of me throughout varying states. The top left is high school (I'm guessing 155 pounds?) and top right is college (about 165 pounds). The middle left is bulking in graduate school and the middle right is cutting afterwards. The bottom left is my current bulk at 188 and I feel disgusting and I'll hopefully look like the bottom right which is me at 173 two years ago, but I probably won't as my last couple bulks and cut I didn't come close. The top left and bottom right were after workouts so I'm going to be more pumped.

 

[kisaj]

You were already at a nice healthy level of total and free test and simply went up while staying in the physiological range. You aren't likely to see much difference unless you were on the low end and moved up considerably within the range. The main benefits are fat loss and muscle retention from a physical standpoint. To see big jumps in muscle mass, you need to move out of the physiological levels and no, you cannot do that with OTC supplements.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

You were already at a nice healthy level of total and free test and simply went up while staying in the physiological range. You aren't likely to see much difference unless you were on the low end and moved up considerably within the range. The main benefits are fat loss and muscle retention from a physical standpoint. To see big jumps in muscle mass, you need to move out of the physiological levels and no, you cannot do that with OTC supplements.

Liked, Repped, and + A Billion

 

[Quest]

I just had my test checked (538) after a 10+mnth cruise blast, two weeks into pct.

Talk about feeling like ****, and within normal range....

39 years old just got scribed test cyp at 200 (joy to the world) 3rd pin tomorrow.

 

[kisaj]

You went on TRT with mid 500 levels of test? Good luck with that. Probably should have found a solid specialist and found out what was really wrong.

 

[Quest]

Yes I would like to be in the high end of normal range.

What are your concerns?

 

[kisaj]

I have none, but you may. Low test was not your issue yet you are putting that band-aid on it.

 

[Quest]

I trust my doctor that has seen my bloods. Thanks for your help!

Since I have started, my back acne is almost gone. I sleep through the entire night like a baby. I thiik I was pinning some dirty test!

Bloods feb 16

 

[EasyEJL]

Yes I would like to be in the high end of normal range.

What are your concerns?

future fertility, hematocrit and red blood cell counts, estrogen levels, blood pressure, there's a few others. 200mg a week does not put you at high end of normal, except for maybe the last day pre-injection. It puts you at supraphysiological levels for most of the week

 

[napalm]

future fertility, hematocrit and red blood cell counts, estrogen levels, blood pressure, there's a few others. 200mg a week does not put you at high end of normal, except for maybe the last day pre-injection. It puts you at supraphysiological levels for most of the week

This, early on when my endo and I were figuring out correct dose, 150 put me in the 1300's and I felt like total a.ss

200 would have me around 1500..

 

[rkc21]

The point of the anti aging clinics is to "optimize" the levels so many people who go into see them have normal levels, they just want to be on the high end. The ranges differ clinic to clinic I thought 1200 was a normal cut off, so your doc is cool with 1500? Can you be more specific, how big a difference does it make in your physique and well being?

 

[napalm]

The point of the anti aging clinics is to "optimize" the levels so many people who go into see them have normal levels, they just want to be on the high end. The ranges differ clinic to clinic I thought 1200 was a normal cut off, so your doc is cool with 1500? Can you be more specific, how big a difference does it make in your physique and well being?

If this is directed to me, no, my doc nor I would be happy w 1500, that's stupid high and there's estrogen problems that come w that high of a test level. I've never needed a AI, but at those levels you prolly would.

More is not better, I've been on trt for a while now and we have my dose dialed in. I inject - as most do here every 3.5 days. 60 mg puts my peaks around 800-900 and troughs 600-700. I had labs drawn many many times.

Regarding changes in physique, I've swapped about 20 of fat for 20 of muscle over the last 4 years. As w most things in life, you get out of it what you put into it...

 

[Quest]

future fertility, hematocrit and red blood cell counts, estrogen levels, blood pressure, there's a few others. 200mg a week does not put you at high end of normal, except for maybe the last day pre-injection. It puts you at supraphysiological levels for most of the week

I guess I'm counting on my doc to monitor and make the correct decisions.

He is well known and respected in my area regarding trt. They took a ton of blood from me. This is not a trt clinic.


I don't understand what you are saying about 200 per week not putting me in the high end of normal.

Isn't he going to see where I'm at next month after 200 and make adjustments? He will see my estrogen, hematocrit etc...

He asked me if I wanted any more kids and he got a firm hell no!

 

[kisaj]

BS. He may be well known and respected for something, but TRT couldn't be one of them if he is putting you on TRT with completely normal test levels and then starting you at 200mg a week. He sounds like a quack or any run of the mill GP. You say he took a lot of blood- what does that mean? Has he been running labs and putting you on a plan to try and correct things the right way?

Oh wait, you are a full two weeks into PCT after being shut down for 10 months. Yep, this guy knows what he is talking about and you will be just fine.

 

[Quest]

I appreciate you taking the time to reply

In regards to bloods, yes he said he is going to take bloods every month. He took full blood panel, urine test.

I'm not trying to debate you so simmer down there killer!

 

[napalm]

As Easy already mentioned, 200/week will take you far into supraphysiological levels, not the high end of normal. That's not a trt dose.

 

[Quest]

Thanks napalm, easy and kisaj,

I guess I should enjoy this little blast?

When I get my bloods I'll share and lets see what my next dose is.

As long as I'm healthy, I welcome the extra help from 200 a week. I would think he will turn it down a bit next run...we'll see.

I respect your knowledge in this area and appreciate the posts.

Quest

 

[EasyEJL]

I guess I'm counting on my doc to monitor and make the correct decisions.

That's always the hope, but its best to be well informed yourself

He is well known and respected in my area regarding trt. They took a ton of blood from me. This is not a trt clinic.

well, known and respected can mean "he has a lot of 55+ guys who have more testosterone in them than any 2 18 year olds so they feel on top of the world" vs he has the best long term outcomes with patients even if not a TRT clinic

I don't understand what you are saying about 200 per week not putting me in the high end of normal.

it will take you well over. I'd estimate at least 1500 day after injection, possibly higher.

Isn't he going to see where I'm at next month after 200 and make adjustments? He will see my estrogen, hematocrit etc...

He should. I've never seen a doctor do monthly blood tests though. Norm when starting TRT is one at 2-3 months, then at 6 months and every 6 after that. Is he doing the blood tests at his office? Is your insurance covering this? Most won't cover more than 2 full panels a year. Thing is, if some of the results are at high end, or just over high end he most likely won't make changes. Really in 4 weeks of dosing you're just barely starting to get to stable level of testosterone, and the cascade of other hormone changes take even longer to settle. Heck, hematocrit changes could take 6 months. At least with that one, you can just go donate blood

I'm not saying 200 is terrible (I've seen 300mg a week prescribed, seen test levels come in at 2400 and a doctor still ok it continuing, etc) but you want to be cautious is all. The other downside to being at that is lets say you get on the 200, it feels great, you start making gains. 6 or even 12 months down the road, estrogen is high, RBC is high, hematocrit is high, LDL is up, HDL is down, free test goes down, SHBG goes up. Doctor then reduces the dose to 150 and you go back to feeling blah even though your testosterone level is STILL at over top of range for close to half the week. Do you want that? (voice of experience on this one). I've been on TRT at varying doses for around 9 years now. At 200 mg, I come in around 1500-1600 day after inject, and around 700-800 day before. When you've stayed at the mostly superhuman levels for a year, going back to even 1000 which is a solid # for an 18 year old feels like crap for months.

He asked me if I wanted any more kids and he got a firm hell no!

No doubt, after 3 I was more than done.



The question with it all is - are you concerned more about how you feel now, or about long term real health? For your reading pleasure

http://www.drugdangers.com/testosterone/lawsuit.htm


I'm not saying TRT is bad, but incautious TRT is. Remember that pharmaceuticals kill more people a year than any other cause in the US. And pretty much doctors know what they've read and chose to believe, they aren't all rocket scientists

 

[Quest]

Thank you.

I have a lot to think about/learn. You helped me tremendously.