Yet another First AAS cycle thread!

[Contopaxi]

I'll cut to the chase.
Natural lifter for 7 years which finds me at 25 years old now.
86kgs now and 180cm tall.

Probably will be starting mid January as I would like to get a bit leaner before starting or at least slowly bump my calories closer to 3000 prior to beginning.

Have good reliable gear with others bloodwork to back it up.
I'll also be using pharma grade AI and PCT.

I'll be drawing my gear with a 19g and pinning with a 25g.

So my first cycle will be as written.

Weeks 1-12 test e 500mg split Monday/ Thursday 250mg each shot.

Weeks 1-12 12.5mg Aromasin EOD and will adjust dose as my mid cycle blood work determines.

2 weeks after last shot I'll start PCT
Weeks 1-4 PCT
Clomid 50/50/25/25
Nolva 40/40/20/20

Any advice and tips is going to be greatly appreciated.

Edit- Clomid dosage was wrong initially

 

[BamBam0319]

Clomid dose seems pretty high to me, 50/50/25/25 is usually what people go with

 

[Joedoubledose]

I remember your Hdrol run awhile back , should be a fun cycle

 

[AustBenny]

Aussie, right? Pretty sure I know you from another forum thread bro I wasn't sure but I think your gauges give you away mate.

You'd probably get good advice from one of those guys too.

My lesson learned is I would definitely do an oral kickstarter, the first few weeks of waiting for the test E to kick in are pretty frustrating. I went for a bit of a front load thinking that would get things moving a little quicker but really that didn't do much, wouldn't recommend it. Grab some Tbol or a PH and get cracking.

Clomid dose should be 50/50/25/25 esp if you are going to Nolva as well. You can run 100mg for the first few days then back down to 50 for the rest of that week and the week after. That'll be plenty.

 

[Dma378]

Get a bit leaner?

 

[AustBenny]

Ahaha, I thought that too as I was counting his eight pack lol.

 

[Contopaxi]

Clomid dose seems pretty high to me, 50/50/25/25 is usually what people go with

Yep sorry that's what I meant I'll edit my first post.

I remember your Hdrol run awhile back , should be a fun cycle

Yeah I got a couple of kgs from that 6 week run which was nice but really looking for more.

Aussie, right? Pretty sure I know you from another forum thread bro I wasn't sure but I think your gauges give you away mate.

You'd probably get good advice from one of those guys too.

My lesson learned is I would definitely do an oral kickstarter, the first few weeks of waiting for the test E to kick in are pretty frustrating. I went for a bit of a front load thinking that would get things moving a little quicker but really that didn't do much, wouldn't recommend it. Grab some Tbol or a PH and get cracking.

Clomid dose should be 50/50/25/25 esp if you are going to Nolva as well. You can run 100mg for the first few days then back down to 50 for the rest of that week and the week after. That'll be plenty.

Yeah Aussie haha.

Personally I'm just going to run the test and see how my body reacts before I throw an oral in.
Just something I'd like to be sure of before mixing compounds and not knowing what is causing any negative sides.

Yep my initial Clomid post was wrong lol my bad

Get a bit leaner?

I just read that most people suggest being at a pretty low bodyfat % before jumping on to try and minimise bad sides.
I'll probably just focus on maintaining my condition and working at upping my intake for now then.

 

[C Dub805]

I'll cut to the chase.
Natural lifter for 7 years which finds me at 25 years old now.
86kgs now and 180cm tall.

Probably will be starting mid January as I would like to get a bit leaner before starting or at least slowly bump my calories closer to 3000 prior to beginning.

View attachment 126982

Have good reliable gear with others bloodwork to back it up.
I'll also be using pharma grade AI and PCT.

I'll be drawing my gear with a 19g and pinning with a 25g.

So my first cycle will be as written.

Weeks 1-12 test e 500mg split Monday/ Thursday 250mg each shot.

Weeks 1-12 12.5mg Aromasin EOD and will adjust dose as my mid cycle blood work determines.

2 weeks after last shot I'll start PCT
Weeks 1-4 PCT
Clomid 50/50/25/25
Nolva 40/40/20/20

Any advice and tips is going to be greatly appreciated.

Edit- Clomid dosage was wrong initially

A bit leaner? Judging from your pic, is that even possible? Anyway, I like the idea of test only cycles and I think 500mg is a very reasonable dose at which to cycle. I also like you are limiting your run to 12 weeks. I don't think it's necessary to go beyond this. You should yield some good results, but expect to lose some gains and strength after your run.

 

[Contopaxi]

A bit leaner?

Ok so I'm gathering that my bf% is fine for starting ?

Just want to make sure I do this correctly and give myself the best base to grow

 

[Joedoubledose]

Dude you're leaner then the majority of people I see on test

 

[Mkgain1]

This is the perfect example of a responsible first cycle, refreshing to see after multiple 'first cycle' threads of people stacking loads of potent drugs. Kudos to you contopaxi hope the gains treat you well!

 

[AustBenny]

You're in good shape, for sure. I was not as lean as you when i started, I was probably around 12-13%.

I wouldn't worry too much about upping your cals now, you will need to up them naturally when you start the test and your body will react better to the extra influx of calories with better nutrient partioning.

 

[C Dub805]

Ok so I'm gathering that my bf% is fine for starting ?

Just want to make sure I do this correctly and give myself the best base to grow

Bro! I don't think you could get any leaner!

 

[Contopaxi]

Dude you're leaner then the majority of people I see on test

Haha thanks man!

This is the perfect example of a responsible first cycle, refreshing to see after multiple 'first cycle' threads of people stacking loads of potent drugs. Kudos to you contopaxi hope the gains treat you well!

Thank you.
I've been probably researching well over a couple of years.
Did a mild PH cycle and that went pretty well so I thought perhaps I was ready.

You're in good shape, for sure. I was not as lean as you when i started, I was probably around 12-13%.

I wouldn't worry too much about upping your cals now, you will need to up them naturally when you start the test and your body will react better to the extra influx of calories with better nutrient partioning.

Ok awesome! I think I'll stick to maintaining my current BF % and just relax my dieting a little bit for now before I jump on

Bro! I don't think you could get any leaner!

Naturally last year I got down to 81kg which was a fun experience

 

[Contopaxi]

Another question,
Is it fine using the AI from week 1? I have read others suggest waiting for high Estrogen sides to show before using it but I see that preventing the sides may be better than trying to treat them, thoughts?

Also 12.5mg EOD seems to be a favoured dose even though the shorter half life of Aromasin in the male body which may not stretch over a couple of days it still seems to be an effective low dose.

 

[AustBenny]

Yep use from the start. No point in waiting till you've got sides because you'll have to up your AI dose to treat which can create it's own set of problems.

There's not many major down sides to aromasin there's no real need to avoid use until necessary.

12.5 eod is the typical dose and you can play around with it from there. If you get low estrogen sides sore joints etc you can do e3d or conversely ed.

 

[Contopaxi]

Yep use from the start. No point in waiting till you've got sides because you'll have to up your AI dose to treat which can create it's own set of problems.

There's not many major down sides to aromasin there's no real need to avoid use until necessary.

12.5 eod is the typical dose and you can play around with it from there. If you get low estrogen sides sore joints etc you can do e3d or conversely ed.

Cheers Benny!

 

[Contopaxi]

2 weeks till I commence! So pumped! Sitting at 90kgs naturally now ( besides the PH cycle I did last year) and ready to add some mass to my frame

 

[AustBenny]

Dude u gonna rip it up.

 

[AustBenny]

I would aim to put some width on those lats....

 

[jakz]

I would bump calories to 3500-4000 though

 

[Contopaxi]

I would aim to put some width on those lats....

Only have one recent shot from December of my back so let's hope I grow!

 

[AustBenny]

Yup agree 4K on cycle but u can work your way up to that over first few weeks.

 

[Contopaxi]

I would bump calories to 3500-4000 though

Yeah I think I'll go from 3000 week 1 and then to 3500 and then higher as I feel I need!

 

[Contopaxi]

Yup agree 4K on cycle but u can work your way up to that over first few weeks.

I cannot wait to be eating 4000 lol going to be fun.

 

[AustBenny]

Less fun than u think bro lol. My food bill exploded at 5K. And if u wanna eat mostly clean you'll be looking for ways to add cals.

HINT. Add two scoops PB to everything lol

 

[AustBenny]

I remember putting in a days full of food into my tracker and bein like what how can all that be only 3500?

Fun times.

Now I'm eating tuna and water

 

[Dma378]

I remember putting in a days full of food into my tracker and bein like what how can all that be only 3500?

Fun times.

Now I'm eating tuna and water

Bye bye gainz

 

[AustBenny]

Dat tren owns my gains and she's a greedy bitch, keeps them all for herself.

 

[Contopaxi]

Got my pre cycle DEXA scan done to see where I'm at.
74.5kgs of lean body mass
13.5% body fat at 90kg
So bone density was around 3.45kgs or something.

The lady who took the scan I have a great base and should look into competing but I'll be focusing on growing / learning my own body and if one day down the track I feel like I'm ready to compete no doubt I'll give it a crack but for now it just about looking like a swole guy who lifts

 

[Contopaxi]

First shot this morning and it all went well.
25g was painless but man it was slow to go in lol my mobility is already **** for reaching around to pin myself

 

[B5150]

FWIW - A few suggestion consiering this is your first cycle and you want to learn because its likely not your last:

IMHO I advise NOT using an AI from the get go for multiple reasons:
Estrogen its not really harmful and the extra water weight at the cellular level can help in potentiating anabolism and growth.

At your body fat it is very unlikely you will experience the negative sides that some experience because they have greater body fat and that is where the unwanted side are most prominent.

If you use it from the start you will never know what kind of aromatization you experience with supraphysiological levels of testosterone. We're not all the same. If you find you are aromatizing at a high rate you can add it at any time. Its not like estrogen will produce irreversible undesirable sides.

IMHO I'd prepare for at least a 16 week cycle:
This is going to be your first cycle and IMHO you have a great opportunity to get that first cycle fresh receptor response and you want to capitalize of that opportunity and grow as much as you can. There's only one first time.

You're going to be shutdown after 12 weeks no more or less than if you go 16 weeks. If I were doing it I would not want to miss the opportunity to capitalize on my first run.

You'll hear people say that after some many weeks you stop responding and gaining strength, size an weight. Most forget that as you grow from a surplus of calories your surplus of calories needs to increase to meat your new lean body mass. In this way at this length you can eat less of surplus initially so as not to get fat but eat a greater surplus overall throughout the length of the cycle as you extend the cycle. It allows you to increase surplus in smaller increments and avoid over fattening while still growing.

IMHO I would draw with a 20g or 21g pin because you're going to trash the rubber stopper on your vial. Heat a coffee cup of water 1" full in the microwave until it comes to a boil. Drop you vial in it and let it soak for 3 to 4 minutes. Unless your gear is nasty thick it should draw like water at that point and pin just as well.

IMHO with this being your first cycle I post the above with the intent to keep you mindful of the opportunity to learn for yourself how you respond and not others (no disrespect to others experiences or opinions). Hopefully this post will at least keep your mind open and consider the less than beaten path and not of that that is often copy and pasted year after year.

Best of luck!

 

[Dma378]

FWIW - A few suggestion consiering this is your first cycle and you want to learn because its likely not your last:

IMHO I advise NOT using an AI from the get go for multiple reasons:
Estrogen its not really harmful and the extra water weight at the cellular level can help in potentiating anabolism and growth.

At your body fat it is very unlikely you will experience the negative sides that some experience because they have greater body fat and that is where the unwanted side are most prominent.

If you use it from the start you will never know what kind of aromatization you experience with supraphysiological levels of testosterone. We're not all the same. If you find you are aromatizing at a high rate you can add it at any time. Its not like estrogen will produce irreversible undesirable sides.

IMHO I'd prepare for at least a 16 week cycle:
This is going to be your first cycle and IMHO you have a great opportunity to get that first cycle fresh receptor response and you want to capitalize of that opportunity and grow as much as you can. There's only one first time.

You're going to be shutdown after 12 weeks no more or less than if you go 16 weeks. If I were doing it I would not want to miss the opportunity to capitalize on my first run.

You'll hear people say that after some many weeks you stop responding and gaining strength, size an weight. Most forget that as you grow from a surplus of calories your surplus of calories needs to increase to meat your new lean body mass. In this way at this length you can eat less of surplus initially so as not to get fat but eat a greater surplus overall throughout the length of the cycle as you extend the cycle. It allows you to increase surplus in smaller increments and avoid over fattening while still growing.

IMHO I would draw with a 20g or 21g pin because you're going to trash the rubber stopper on your vial. Heat a coffee cup of water 1" full in the microwave until it comes to a boil. Drop you vial in it and let it soak for 3 to 4 minutes. Unless your gear is nasty thick it should draw like water at that point and pin just as well.

IMHO with this being your first cycle I post the above with the intent to keep you mindful of the opportunity to learn for yourself how you respond and not others (no disrespect to others experiences or opinions). Hopefully this post will at least keep your mind open and consider the less than beaten path and not of that that is often copy and pasted year after year.

Best of luck!

Great post. Spot-on on everything.

 

[Contopaxi]

FWIW - A few suggestion consiering this is your first cycle and you want to learn because its likely not your last:

IMHO I advise NOT using an AI from the get go for multiple reasons:
Estrogen its not really harmful and the extra water weight at the cellular level can help in potentiating anabolism and growth.

At your body fat it is very unlikely you will experience the negative sides that some experience because they have greater body fat and that is where the unwanted side are most prominent.

If you use it from the start you will never know what kind of aromatization you experience with supraphysiological levels of testosterone. We're not all the same. If you find you are aromatizing at a high rate you can add it at any time. Its not like estrogen will produce irreversible undesirable sides.

IMHO I'd prepare for at least a 16 week cycle:
This is going to be your first cycle and IMHO you have a great opportunity to get that first cycle fresh receptor response and you want to capitalize of that opportunity and grow as much as you can. There's only one first time.

You're going to be shutdown after 12 weeks no more or less than if you go 16 weeks. If I were doing it I would not want to miss the opportunity to capitalize on my first run.

You'll hear people say that after some many weeks you stop responding and gaining strength, size an weight. Most forget that as you grow from a surplus of calories your surplus of calories needs to increase to meat your new lean body mass. In this way at this length you can eat less of surplus initially so as not to get fat but eat a greater surplus overall throughout the length of the cycle as you extend the cycle. It allows you to increase surplus in smaller increments and avoid over fattening while still growing.

IMHO I would draw with a 20g or 21g pin because you're going to trash the rubber stopper on your vial. Heat a coffee cup of water 1" full in the microwave until it comes to a boil. Drop you vial in it and let it soak for 3 to 4 minutes. Unless your gear is nasty thick it should draw like water at that point and pin just as well.

IMHO with this being your first cycle I post the above with the intent to keep you mindful of the opportunity to learn for yourself how you respond and not others (no disrespect to others experiences or opinions). Hopefully this post will at least keep your mind open and consider the less than beaten path and not of that that is often copy and pasted year after year.

Best of luck!

Thank you so much for the in depth response mate.
I'll probably fire some questions at you via PM if you don't mind.


Thanks again

 

[B5150]

You're welcome. It's my pleasure.

 

[datsthat]

subbed.

Got my pre cycle DEXA scan done to see where I'm at.
74.5kgs of lean body mass
13.5% body fat at 90kg
So bone density was around 3.45kgs or something.

The lady who took the scan I have a great base and should look into competing but I'll be focusing on growing / learning my own body and if one day down the track I feel like I'm ready to compete no doubt I'll give it a crack but for now it just about looking like a swole guy who lifts

Its funny how many people think they are around 12-15% bodyfat but don't look nearly as lean as you do.

Excellent idea not to use orals for your first.

You look great now, but just wait until another couple months........

Whats your goal for this cycle?

 

[Contopaxi]

subbed.



Its funny how many people think they are around 12-15% bodyfat but don't look nearly as lean as you do.

Excellent idea not to use orals for your first.

You look great now, but just wait until another couple months........

Whats your goal for this cycle?

Thanks man.
Yeah I've never been one to estimate so the DEXA was great to get that accurate assessment.

I'm not even sure what is achievable but I would absolutely love anywhere near 5-10kg of lb gains ( 10-20lb )

I'm pretty confident in my ability to track my intake so should have no trouble in making adjustments if weight does stall but I also do not want to just binge and gain unnecessary weight which will just cause health issues.

Also hitting each body part 2x a week so very exciting to see what I can achieve

 

[datsthat]

Thanks man.
Yeah I've never been one to estimate so the DEXA was great to get that accurate assessment.

I'm not even sure what is achievable but I would absolutely love anywhere near 5-10kg of lb gains ( 10-20lb )

I'm pretty confident in my ability to track my intake so should have no trouble in making adjustments if weight does stall but I also do not want to just binge and gain unnecessary weight which will just cause health issues.

Also hitting each body part 2x a week so very exciting to see what I can achieve

10-20lbs is doable. And from reading your post and from looking at your pics, I can tell that you don't lack effort. You already look better than most dudes that I see at gym. Your gonna be a beast!!!!

I'd rather gain clean 10lbs than fatty, watery 20lbs.

 

[Contopaxi]

10-20lbs is doable. And from reading your post and from looking at your pics, I can tell that you don't lack effort. You already look better than most dudes that I see at gym. Your gonna be a beast!!!!

I'd rather gain clean 10lbs than fatty, watery 20lbs.

Thanks for the kind words, I appreciate it.
I am so excited to really see what I can do.
I know the party really starts when other compounds are introduced but at 25 I've got plenty of time to see if this is for me.

I'll be sure to keep everyone updated throughout this thread no doubt.

 

[datsthat]

Thanks for the kind words, I appreciate it.
I am so excited to really see what I can do.
I know the party really starts when other compounds are introduced but at 25 I've got plenty of time to see if this is for me.

I'll be sure to keep everyone updated throughout this thread no doubt.

Oh yea, I forgot to mention.... Few tips...may or may not work for you.

(a) warm your vial up before pinning as it will make it flow through needle much easier and I've heard from others that it also reduces PIP. Or once your ready to pin, use blow dryer to warm up syringe, but make sure cap is on needle as you don't want to warm up the needle.

(b) If you get PIP, find a hot tub and aim jets at your injection site. It greatly reduced PIP.

(c) If you can, plan you injections so that you train that body part that day, this also reduces PIP

(d) I draw with 10cc syringe and 18g filter needle and then put filter gear in a new sterile vial. Then I draw with 25g and pin using 1ml luer lock syringe ONLY. Glutes and Ventroglutes 27g 1"
Quads 27g 3/4"
Delts 29g 1/2" (slin pin)

(e) HCG will keep your nuts working on cycle and will make PCT much easier, but not needed.

 

[Contopaxi]

Oh yea, I forgot to mention.... Few tips...may or may not work for you.

(a) warm your vial up before pinning as it will make it flow through needle much easier and I've heard from others that it also reduces PIP. Or once your ready to pin, use blow dryer to warm up syringe, but make sure cap is on needle as you don't want to warm up the needle.

(b) If you get PIP, find a hot tub and aim jets at your injection site. It greatly reduced PIP.

(c) If you can, plan you injections so that you train that body part that day, this also reduces PIP

(d) I draw with 10cc syringe and 18g filter needle and then put filter gear in a new sterile vial. Then I draw with 25g and pin using 1ml luer lock syringe ONLY. Glutes and Ventroglutes 27g 1"
Quads 27g 3/4"
Delts 29g 1/2" (slin pin)

(e) HCG will keep your nuts working on cycle and will make PCT much easier, but not needed.

My first shot went well and that was with a 25g in the glute.
I draw with a 19g but might get some 20g because I don't want to damage the stopper.

Already changed my workout program to work in with injection days.
Use to be Legs/Push/Pull/Repeat and Sunday off.
But pinning Monday / Thursday and probably only pinning glutes and quads so I just made leg day Wednesday and Saturdays by going Push/Pull/Legs/repeat.

Used the foam roller on my glute last night and that was pretty helpful.
Little sore still this morning but not crippling and most users of the same lab don't really report a lot of PIP.

 

[Contopaxi]

Oh and HCG I have and will be using 2x 250iu a week starting from week 3-12

 

[datsthat]

My first shot went well and that was with a 25g in the glute.
I draw with a 19g but might get some 20g because I don't want to damage the stopper.

Already changed my workout program to work in with injection days.
Use to be Legs/Push/Pull/Repeat and Sunday off.
But pinning Monday / Thursday and probably only pinning glutes and quads so I just made leg day Wednesday and Saturdays by going Push/Pull/Legs/repeat.

Used the foam roller on my glute last night and that was pretty helpful.
Little sore still this morning but not crippling and most users of the same lab don't really report a lot of PIP.

Good to hear. I've had PIP so bad in my quads that I dropped my son and didn't even attempt to try to stop him from falling out of my arms....thats what he gets for reaching for a candy bar while we were in line to pay for groceries....People around me gave me a bad stare.....

 

[datsthat]

Oh and HCG I have and will be using 2x 250iu a week starting from week 3-12

Dude, maybe I need to get some advice from you lol...



EDIT: Since you have HCG, I assume you have slin pins. If so, try pinning your delt with it instead of 25g.

 

[Contopaxi]

Dude, maybe I need to get some advice from you lol...



EDIT: Since you have HCG, I assume you have slin pins. If so, try pinning your delt with it instead of 25g.

Yeah but the Slin pins are those pre fixed ones so they only hold 1ml

 

[datsthat]

Yeah but the Slin pins are those pre fixed ones so they only hold 1ml

True... I forget that because I am on TRT and I only pin .6ml a week..... what dose is your test 200mg/ml or 250mg/ml?

 

[Contopaxi]

True... I forget that because I am on TRT and I only pin .6ml a week..... what dose is your test 200mg/ml or 250mg/ml?

250mg/m

I could do 2x .5ml shots but not sure if that's optimal

 

[datsthat]

250mg/m

I could do 2x .5ml shots but not sure if that's optimal

That would mean an extra injection. Which I think is fine if you don't mind extra pinning.

You could do 1 shot of 1ml which will be 250mg, but I noticed from past experience that if you load a slin pin to 1ml, the plunger stick wobbles as you push on it which causes the needle tip to also wobble. I have no problems filling to 1ml on a slin pin, but I make sure that my elbow of the arm that I am pushing the plunger is resting on something to eliminate wobble. Also with the plunger stick extended all the way, I almost snapped it once because I wasn't pushing linearly on it which caused it to bend...BUT I doubt it would snap that easily...kinda like a needle, its somewhat difficult to snap it.

 

[jsav906]

Man this is pumping me up. I'm going to start my first injectable cycle of test only as well in September (long ways away) im excited to see how it treats you. Because from your pictures we have a pretty similar body type.

 

[datsthat]

Man this is pumping me up. I'm going to start my first injectable cycle of test only as well in September (long ways away) im excited to see how it treats you. Because from your pictures we have a pretty similar body type.

Start your research NOW. For a darkside newbie, I've never encountered someone as knowledgeable and prepared as Contopaxi is.