SARM vs PH

[georgetown]

For a bulk what is the better all around.

Example ostarine vs halodrol

SARM - few sides right? Recovery benefitts (joints) , longer run on cycle, easier pct possible otc? Fewer on and off cycle supps? Therefore cheaper?

PH - higher risk of sides, Greater gains, shorter cycles, more on off supplements, more expensice pct (serm + supps),

Whats easier to keep after pct?
I do not know a whooole lot about sarms thats why i am asking. I am not planning on running anything yet just for future reference.

 

[bert45]

Depends what sarm and what ph you are referring to. There are certain phs that are stronger then sarms and vise versa

 

[moleculargnz]

One thing to keep in mind is that regardless of using sarms or phs the more you gain while on cycle the harder it will be to maintain once you come off. You could run a good sarms cycle at high doses, gain 10+ lbs or run a really powerful ph at a low dose and gain less weight, which would probably make the ph gains easier to keep. It really depends on what compounds you're looking at and I think it can go either way as far as whats easier to maintain once your cycle is over. As far as pct, I think its important to invest in a really good pct regardless of using sarms of phs as sarms can be pretty suppressive as well

 

[georgetown]

Depends what sarm and what ph you are referring to. There are certain phs that are stronger then sarms and vise versa

For example ostarine vs halodrol like stated in original post

 

[ericool007]

Ostarine gains are nothing like hdrol.

 

[bert45]

For example ostarine vs halodrol like stated in original post

Halodrol would be my choice solid gains and if you pct right u deff can keep your gains. Ostarine didn't give me anything but shutdown. I'd rather be shutdown with gainz.
I recommend halodrol

 

[BamBam0319]

Ostarine isn't good for bulking

 

[T-Bone]

SARMS will shut down. PH/DS will shut you down but give you better gains. Only differences between the two, SARMS are weak and are selective. Both are anabolic. SARMS are much weaker in general with the only benefit being that they are selective.

 

[goodvibes]

Got my annual blood work done and I might have to say bye to any PHS that are 17aa methylated. Liver enzymes higher than usual. So for now sarms it is. Sadness....

 

[kboxer7]

Got my annual blood work done and I might have to say bye to any PHS that are 17aa methylated. Liver enzymes higher than usual. So for now sarms it is. Sadness....

Dang.

Might be time to run a solo stack of TUDCA, and Arim Pro for a couple months.

Aldo look into Schizandrins for liver support and healing (lots of other benefits too).

 

[T-Bone]

Got my annual blood work done and I might have to say bye to any PHS that are 17aa methylated. Liver enzymes higher than usual. So for now sarms it is. Sadness....

My liver enzymes were higher than normal on just 15mg of Ostarine. Just gotta use supports...Not that they will protect you from insane dosing. Plus liver enzymes can be affected by a lot of other things besides oral PH/DS....

 

[ericool007]

Who needs a liver when you can have lean muscle. Just get a lil milk thistle n man up.

(This is not advice)

 

[heavylifter33]

My liver enzymes were higher than normal on just 15mg of Ostarine. Just gotta use supports...Not that they will protect you from insane dosing. Plus liver enzymes can be affected by a lot of other things besides oral PH/DS....

This.

 

[goodvibes]

My liver enzymes were higher than normal on just 15mg of Ostarine. Just gotta use supports...Not that they will protect you from insane dosing. Plus liver enzymes can be affected by a lot of other things besides oral PH/DS....

Yes I've been reading and talking to my doc about it. I'm double the reference range though and I don't drink. I have a full on panel work up done and I'm doing another liver panel test tomorrow to confirm

 

[goodvibes]

I have 3 arimacare pro coming and tudca bulk for a sarm cycle. If my next test comes out below the ref range then I can bridge to msten or dmz

 

[BamBam0319]

Yes I've been reading and talking to my doc about it. I'm double the reference range though and I don't drink. I have a full on panel work up done and I'm doing another liver panel test tomorrow to confirm

What were your levels?
My AST was 68 with a normal range of 10-40, I picked up LGI Damage Control to run through PCT

 

[TheGoodLife35]

What were your levels?
My AST was 68 with a normal range of 10-40, I picked up LGI Damage Control to run through PCT

I love damage control

I have tudca and udca I am going to start using year round that way I can enjoy some beers sometimes as well lol

 

[goodvibes]

What were your levels?
My AST was 68 with a normal range of 10-40, I picked up LGI Damage Control to run through PCT

ALT is about 100. Doesn't matter though I knw when to go over the barrier and not to. This time around 4 week of PH cycle is not going to change much. I've lived without PHs so it's no big deal.

 

[kboxer7]

I love damage control

I have tudca and udca I am going to start using year round that way I can enjoy some beers sometimes as well lol

No, no you won't!

TUDCA before alcohol has been shown to INCREASE liver damage.

Remind me and I'll find the study when I'm not in mobile.

 

[TheGoodLife35]

No, no you won't!

TUDCA before alcohol has been shown to INCREASE liver damage.

Remind me and I'll find the study when I'm not in mobile.

Fml I have a mini fridge by my couch full of different beers and I have a ice cream maker so I make custom ice cream with alcohol for desserts lol. I guess I'll have to stop for awhile

 

[bert45]

Fml I have a mini fridge by my couch full of different beers and I have a ice cream maker so I make custom ice cream with alcohol for desserts lol. I guess I'll have to stop for awhile

LOL sukkz

 

[kboxer7]

Fml I have a mini fridge by my couch full of different beers and I have a ice cream maker so I make custom ice cream with alcohol for desserts lol. I guess I'll have to stop for awhile

My best bud has a full size keggerator and he buys our favorite craft beer for it......pouring glass after glass in front of me.

The struggle IS REAL.

 

[TNlifting]

Im curious as to if the people who are saying ostarine didnt do anything for them other than shutdown are using legit ostarine (IE olympus labs) or research chems. Reason being is because I bought like 3 bottles of OL osta with the amazing sales going on right now and was really looking forward to doing a couple runs eventually.

 

[BamBam0319]

Im curious as to if the people who are saying ostarine didnt do anything for them other than shutdown are using legit ostarine (IE olympus labs) or research chems. Reason being is because I bought like 3 bottles of OL osta with the amazing sales going on right now and was really looking forward to doing a couple runs eventually.

I love OL osta. Grabbed 2 360ct bottles for future usage. It works for me and I've used much heavier more serious anabolics, as have many others who still use osta.
Best bet is to try it out and see how you like it for yourself.
You will see less results if your diet/training/etc is off, which is probably why some people say it "didn't work for them."
Also seems that osta is better for cutting or recomp than bulking.

 

[T-Bone]

You will see less results if your diet/training/etc is off, which is probably why some people say it "didn't work for them."
Also seems that osta is better for cutting or recomp than bulking.

That goes for anything. But I've got to say not really. It's a drug and will work no matter what you do. I've even read of people using it strictly when recovering from injuries and not going to the gym. Like I said though, it's a drug, it's going to do something no matter what you do.

 

[BamBam0319]

That goes for anything. But I've got to say not really. It's a drug and will work no matter what you do. I've even read of people using it strictly when recovering from injuries and not going to the gym. Like I said though, it's a drug, it's going to do something no matter what you do.

Well yeah, I guess a more accurate way for me to say what I mean, and for other people, is that they didn't *notice* results. Or were disappointed in one way or another. Not that it legitimately didn't do anything.

 

[TNlifting]

cool, thanks for the info guys. When my pct arrives, Im going to log a low dose cycle probably after the holiday season just to get a feel for how I react to it. Im pretty excited

 

[BamBam0319]

cool, thanks for the info guys. When my pct arrives, Im going to log a low dose cycle probably after the holiday season just to get a feel for how I react to it. Im pretty excited

What are you thinking of running it at?

 

[TNlifting]

What are you thinking of running it at?

probably just 15mg for a 30 day cycle. I may wind up extending it to 5 or 6 weeks

 

[BamBam0319]

probably just 15mg for a 30 day cycle. I may wind up extending it to 5 or 6 weeks

I would definitely do 6 weeks, 30 days or around 4 weeks just isn't really enough. 15mg is a good dose though.

 

[TNlifting]

I would definitely do 6 weeks, 30 days or around 4 weeks just isn't really enough. 15mg is a good dose though.

Cool, what can I expect in terms of a lean bulk assuming diet and training is on point?

 

[ericool007]

Not a whole lot but some people can be great responders to it. I noticed it's better at preserving muscle than building so it's good when cutting. Don't go over 20 mg or all your doing is giving urself more shutdown with no more gains.

 

[T-Bone]

Well yeah, I guess a more accurate way for me to say what I mean, and for other people, is that they didn't *notice* results. Or were disappointed in one way or another. Not that it legitimately didn't do anything.

Yep. I don't notice much on Ostarine either though. It's really mild but the effects are there. I think some people expect too much from it, and some people over-exaggerate their results. Still others will ask what to expect and then look for those results which will just strength placebo effects. You're better off not really expecting anything, or anything dramatic.

 

[abformulations]

Osta sucks IMO. Not worth it

 

[zcol94]

No need for more than 15 mg
And its best used in a cut, but in a bulk it will help with recovery which can allow you to push the volume and weight a little more which will be good in a bulk

 

[bert45]

Osta is trash I get better results from natural anabolics. If ima be shut down id run 1dhea it blows it out the water also I'd rather run epiandro in a cut then osta any day aswell.

 

[Hercules1982]

For example ostarine vs halodrol like stated in original post

Halodrol blows Ostarine out of the water for bulking (in my experience).
Ostarine is a nice cutter though.

 

[bert45]

Halodrol blows Ostarine out of the water for bulking (in my experience).
Ostarine is a nice cutter though.

I hated ostarine. Nothing beats epiandro on a hard cut gets me super dry at very high doses it's on part with masteron

 

[hide83]

ALT is about 100. Doesn't matter though I knw when to go over the barrier and not to. This time around 4 week of PH cycle is not going to change much. I've lived without PHs so it's no big deal.

Are you still on or no? If you're off how long ago did you complete pct? Mine were double the reference once but the doc said it was no big deal and they'd go back to normal in a couple of weeks (they did).

 

[goodvibes]

Are you still on or no? If you're off how long ago did you complete pct? Mine were double the reference once but the doc said it was no big deal and they'd go back to normal in a couple of weeks (they did).

I completed pct 3 months ago. I'm off anything that can be hepatoxic months ago

 

[BamBam0319]

I hated ostarine. Nothing beats epiandro on a hard cut gets me super dry at very high doses it's on part with masteron

Agree with epiandro. Helluva compound. Can't wait to use it again

 

[MarenghiJuice]

For a bulk what is the better all around.

Example ostarine vs halodrol


SARM - few sides right? Recovery benefitts (joints) , longer run on cycle, easier pct possible otc? Fewer on and off cycle supps? Therefore cheaper?

PH - higher risk of sides, Greater gains, shorter cycles, more on off supplements, more expensice pct (serm + supps),

Whats easier to keep after pct?
I do not know a whooole lot about sarms thats why i am asking. I am not planning on running anything yet just for future reference.

You basically answered your own question, with SARMS your gaining much less lean mass with fewer sides and a greater ability to maintain gains. However both still suppress natural testosterone levels

 

[Bigdumogre]

Can't compare osta to some harsher compounds

 

[TheGoodLife35]

I think it really depends on the person but sarms don't really cause gyno per say so I would pick them over ph's. (Some report flare ups so if you are prone to it use with caution)

I am on LGD now and I feel like I'm on SD but without the strength gains so far. I'm up in weight, muscle fullness and plenty of back pumps. I was around 212-215 and I am now 223 so you do the math on that at the beginning of the second week.

Can't compare osta to some harsher compounds

I agree but I always thought halodrol was considered light. From friends I hear osta being compared to anavar and for me I compare LGD to either low dose SD or Dbol.

 

[ericool007]

Lgd has high estro sides though I was getting chest pains like maybe aggrevating a slight gyno that harsh componds such as tren superdrol also have caused n cost me to end cycles immediately. You can expect some water weight with lgd too, I quit it after a week.

 

[TheGoodLife35]

Lgd has high estro sides though I was getting chest pains like maybe aggrevating a slight gyno that harsh componds such as tren superdrol also have caused n cost me to end cycles immediately. You can expect some water weight with lgd too, I quit it after a week.

Maybe there is some irritation but real Sarms don't convert to estrogen. Normally those prone to it over think it but from all the blood panels I have seen so far nothing of note regarding estrogen was sighted. I say this being prone to gyno and taking LGD now with no problem at 10mg per day.

Btw I should be having my lipids checked next week and should get a copy of the results mailed about a week after probably.

 

[ericool007]

Maybe there is some irritation but real Sarms don't convert to estrogen. Normally those prone to it over think it but from all the blood panels I have seen so far nothing of note regarding estrogen was sighted. I say this being prone to gyno and taking LGD now with no problem at 10mg per day.

Btw I should be having my lipids checked next week and should get a copy of the results mailed about a week after probably.

Ah ok, I'm wondering why certain compounds cause me chest pain usually only the stronger ones too it's kinda scary actually n very uncomfortable.

 

[kboxer7]

Ah ok, I'm wondering why certain compounds cause me chest pain usually only the stronger ones too it's kinda scary actually n very uncomfortable.

There is a big difference between chest pain and nipple pain/tenderness.

Estrogen sides should not cause chest pain. Might be time to see a doctor.

All the best man.

 

[T-Bone]

Osta is trash I get better results from natural anabolics. If ima be shut down id run 1dhea it blows it out the water also I'd rather run epiandro in a cut then osta any day aswell.

I don't know about that. These 2 step dhea based ph products are a bit of a joke. Only DHEA product I'd use is Dermacrine, because at least it knows what it is...I don't expect "da gainz" on it, but it boosts my mood enough to be worth it.

 

[T-Bone]

Agree with epiandro. Helluva compound. Can't wait to use it again

Epi-andro blows. It's good for libido and that's about it.