Add osta to lgd cycle?

[Danrey]

Hey guys so im currently 3 weeks into my legend cycle and im starting to experience some shoulder pain. Ive read that osta helps with joints etc. Could i add osta into my current cycle? Ive got some cissus on the way but im not sure how that will take to arrive.

Thanks

 

[Yanks]

From what I understand they don't stack very well as they compete for the same receptors but maybe one of our more senior members could chime in and give a definitive answer.

 

[Kickstart7]

sanmarino is pretty knowledgable SARM wise. I mean many others are but he seems to dedicate most of his research of them!

 

[Dragoninho]

I could definately see some benefits in my LGD run once I added Osta into the mix. My joints felt smoother, hunger increased etc. I can't say if it did any good for gains, strength or anything else but just the easing up of the joints were well worth stacking them, for me at least.

I know that people speak about this "competing for receptor" thing but honestly, no one knows this for sure, at this point, it's just theory. It might be the case, but we just know and probably never will for sure.

I think you can see some benefits from stacking sarms, I mean, the Osta and S4 stack is actually a quite a good stack, but again, this is just my own experiences and nothing you shall take for the truth. (As you shall take anything someone say for the truth...?)

 

[Danrey]

Thanks for the responses guys
Dragoninho what dose did you run the osta? Im currently at 8mg of lgd.

 

[Dragoninho]

I did 8 and 10 mg of LGD (different brands) and 15 mg of Osta.
I've played around with the Osta dosage in the past and I don't notice much more effect after 15 mg so I use to stay there now.

 

[sanmarino]

From what I understand they don't stack very well as they compete for the same receptors but maybe one of our more senior members could chime in and give a definitive answer.

First of all, yes, they target the same AR-receptors.
Second, if you aren't a bloody beginner, you will have enough receptors to add more compounds together. As Dragoninho also mentioned, I also saw differences between Ostarine and Ostarine + S-4 or LGD vs. LGD + S-4. If you were a 50 year old female patient with breast cancer so a combination of different SARM probably won't have the same benefit like in a bodybuiler. The more muscle mass you have, the more AR-receptors you have.

While Ostarine ist pure anabolic, LGD has a high anabolic ratio, too. In such a stack the androgenic level is very low (it comes only from the LGD). While such a stack may be helpful for joint problems, I wouldn't recommend Ostarine + LGD for improved muscle mass. The anabolic factor is "too" high, the androgenic effect shouldn't be undervalued. This is the part, which gives you aggression, power and faster regeneration.

The pain in joints is due to the lower estrogen levels which are decreasing. In several threads I'm reading that SARM will inrease the estrogen level. This is absolutely not the case if a real (!) SARM is used.
Ostarine also causes lower estrogen levels. During a Ostarine + LGD combination the sexual hormones like testosterone and estrogen won't decrease much more than under LGD only. But the cholesterol levels are going to increase heavily.

A possible answer, how Ostarine helps in joint problems is the increase of bone density. Bones and joints are not the same but the whole actions and impacts of SARM aren't solved anyway.

I recommend to use high dosages of glucosamine, which improves the joints for sure. It takes its time, so don't expect very fast results. But Ostarine will also help in some cases.

 

[Dragoninho]

There is some good **** right there...

 

[Chrisko]

First of all, yes, they target the same AR-receptors.
Second, if you aren't a bloody beginner, you will have enough receptors to add more compounds together. As Dragoninho also mentioned, I also saw differences between Ostarine and Ostarine + S-4 or LGD vs. LGD + S-4. If you were a 50 year old female patient with breast cancer so a combination of different SARM probably won't have the same benefit like in a bodybuiler. The more muscle mass you have, the more AR-receptors you have.

While Ostarine ist pure anabolic, LGD has a high anabolic ratio, too. In such a stack the androgenic level is very low (it comes only from the LGD). While such a stack may be helpful for joint problems, I wouldn't recommend Ostarine + LGD for improved muscle mass. The anabolic factor is "too" high, the androgenic effect shouldn't be undervalued. This is the part, which gives you aggression, power and faster regeneration.

The pain in joints is due to the lower estrogen levels which are decreasing. In several threads I'm reading that SARM will inrease the estrogen level. This is absolutely not the case if a real (!) SARM is used.
Ostarine also causes lower estrogen levels. During a Ostarine + LGD combination the sexual hormones like testosterone and estrogen won't decrease much more than under LGD only. But the cholesterol levels are going to increase heavily.

A possible answer, how Ostarine helps in joint problems is the increase of bone density. Bones and joints are not the same but the whole actions and impacts of SARM aren't solved anyway.

I recommend to use high dosages of glucosamine, which improves the joints for sure. It takes its time, so don't expect very fast results. But Ostarine will also help in some cases.

If osta causes low estrogen then what would be the cause for users to have estro sides and reported cases of gyno?

I have also been told that competing for the same receptor is just bro science. It was advised not to run osta and lgd together however because they are simply not synergistic which I believe you concur with.

You always seem to provide interesting and good info on several posts. Thank you.

 

[sanmarino]

That is the one million dollar question.
I have absolutely no clue, why SARM - especially Ostarine - should cause estrogen related side effects. To be honest, the only place I'm reading about such sides is only here (no offense or something like that). Even the evo or elite board I didn't find such reportings (on quick search). Normally, on these boards everything causes estrogen related side effects...

We only can assume that:
- everyone is different
- used dosage is different
- the start body values are suboptimal (high bodyfat for example)
- not the "real" Ostarine is used

Regarding to the last point: when GTx Inc. lauched their Enobosarm program and presented the first results, the chinese manufacturer (the whole commodities came/are from China) produced the first batches of Ostarine. But who knew he original formula? GTx made a patent of three VERY slightly different substances. No one knewed for sure, which one it was but they didn't care about it and sold their products to different companies.
Actually, the "real" substance is known and also it's production-procedures (because of the patent). Nevertheless, there is still no 100% safety. We are talking about "underground-products" and not about officiall, regulated and controlled pharmaceutical quality, officially made by GTx.

Therefore: for such adverse events you always should have an AI and a SERM on hands. Every. Singe. Time.

We also can't evaluate the truth behind every single single reported side effect (which should not happen). I don't want to blame anyone - we are all thankful for every told personal experiences - but we are here on the internet There are too many interest represented...

Long story short: we can't be sure what we are consuming and even it's legit, unexpected things can happen (like two users with bad dreams, I don't think the majority had bad dreams on Ostarine..?). But generally, estrogen related side effect should not happen.

AI and SERM are the plan B.

Regarding to the second part of your post: hmm, competing for the same receptor is not bro-science. If you have two of the same substances with the same targed (AR) they will compete in any way IF there is only a limited number of AR (in this case). As you said right, you are able to run Ostarine and LGD together, even S-4 added if you want (not a recommendation). With the building of more muscle mass you will generate more cells which are responsible:

AR is expressed in several cell types in human skeletal muscle, including satellite cells, fibroblasts, CD34+ precursor cells, vascular endothelial, smooth muscle cells, and mast cells. Satellite cells are the predominant site of AR expression.

Therefore: SARM abuse (especially in stacks) have not the same effect in beginners as in advanced trained persons.

Thank you, you are welcome. I appreciate that.

 

[Danrey]

Thanks a ton for all the info sanmarino. Im definitely trying to put on mass so maybe ill hold off on the ostarine then. Gonna pick up some glucosamine, aswell just got my cissus in today.