Rebirth as PCT for mild PH?

[doogans]

The last time I did any hormonal compound was a Halodrol run with 4 weeks of Torem for PCT. Got some weird vision side effects that scared me a bit. Recently I've been seeing favorable reviews on BLRs Rebirth as both a standalone and a part of PCT.

Since then I haven't messed with anything hormonal but I've been contemplating a 6 week run of a 1 DHEA/4 DHEA cycle. Especially with a lot of these high doses DHEA based compounds.

So my question is this: After running a DHEA based cycle, would any of you trust your HPTA recovery to an OTC product like Rebirth without the inclusion of a SERM?

 

[123abcabcabc]

Of course you will see good reviews about it. BLR is sponsored lol.

Get a SERM. Temporary vision sides sound better than being shutdown for months.

 

[doogans]

Of course you will see good reviews about it. BLR is sponsored lol.

Get a SERM. Temporary vision sides sound better than being shutdown for months.

I have a few bottles of Clomid saved for a rainy day.

 

[123abcabcabc]

I have a few bottles of Clomid saved for a rainy day.

Why not run the clomid and see if vision sides occur first? If they do, taper off and run the Rebirth and an AI.

 

[123abcabcabc]

I still advise you to run the proper PCT protocol.

 

[uubiduu]

clomid vision sides are very dose dependant.dont go over 50 per day or even only take 25.recovery will still be better than with anything natty (though rebirths profile looks decent compared to other otc pct products)

 

[doogans]

clomid vision sides are very dose dependant.dont go over 50 per day or even only take 25.recovery will still be better than with anything natty (though rebirths profile looks decent compared to other otc pct products)

I'm starting to think the Torem I ran a while back was actually clomid. Crazy eye floaters for a while running at 90 the first few weeks.

 

[hide83]

I'm starting to think the Torem I ran a while back was actually clomid. Crazy eye floaters for a while running at 90 the first few weeks.

Probably. Clomid is the only serm that causes the vision sides from my understanding. I don't know much about torem- guys that run it swear by it though. Y preference has always been nolva. It's effective for me with no sides.

 

[Jebrook]

Rebirth would do a great job in helping you recover. It is outstanding from my experience. I experienced no negative sides and kept my gains. Libido skyrocketed back from being low on cycle.
Like others have said, Clomid is a stronger SERM so you might as well use it or keep it as backup. Or you can run them in conjunction like people do with Nolva and Clomid. Either way, your pct would be a success.

 

[JoePaul39]

Rebirth would do a great job in helping you recover. It is outstanding from my experience. I experienced no negative sides and kept my gains. Libido skyrocketed back from being low on cycle.
Like others have said, Clomid is a stronger SERM so you might as well use it or keep it as backup. Or you can run them in conjunction like people do with Nolva and Clomid. Either way, your pct would be a success.

If I use Rebirth alone as a PCT, would you recommend running it for 4 or 8 weeks?

 

[Scrutiny]

If I use Rebirth along as a PCT, would you recommend running it for 4 or 8 weeks?

I’d run it for 8 just to cover all bases.

I ran it for 8 and loved the results. Nothing too drastic but just a well recovered feeling with everything coming back up to normal.

With anything natural like that go longer if you can.

 

[Cgkone]

I thought rebirth was really good
I currently give it to clients running Sarms and mild PH

 

[Joe12]

You are going to get the old “No SERM, no cycle” recommendations in general. However, your can use a OTC PCT for a mild andro cycle. You will recover, just not as fast as a RX run of clomid. A lot of people who advocate a RX PCT never actually get bloods, so they haphazardly put a unneeded drug in their body.

If you are worried, Best bet is to get bloods at the end of the run. That is the sure way to find out.

 

[gigante35]

Rebirth and trojan pct will be good choice, i run it after 7 weeks of running cerberus v2 by spartan nutrition. Drawn blood few days after finished pct and got lh and fsh values like on nolva. Lh 12, fsh 15, test 25, estro marked low, igf 20 and so on. Full recover without toxicity of nolva and clomid. Liver values perfect.

 

[bigsmall]

If I use Rebirth alone as a PCT, would you recommend running it for 4 or 8 weeks?

brundel (creator of Rebirth) recommends 8 weeks....Rebirth also takes allot of the feeling like crap out of PCT and in my experience really helps keep the gains.

 

[JoePaul39]

Rebirth and trojan pct will be good choice, i run it after 7 weeks of running cerberus v2 by spartan nutrition. Drawn blood few days after finished pct and got lh and fsh values like on nolva. Lh 12, fsh 15, test 25, estro marked low, igf 20 and so on. Full recover without toxicity of nolva and clomid. Liver values perfect.

Thanks. How long did you run the Rebirth for pct?

 

[JoePaul39]

brundel (creator of Rebirth) recommends 8 weeks....Rebirth also takes allot of the feeling like crap out of PCT and in my experience really helps keep the gains.

Thanks for the info.

 

[JoePaul39]

brundel (creator of Rebirth) recommends 8 weeks....Rebirth also takes allot of the feeling like crap out of PCT and in my experience really helps keep the gains.

So if the cycle is 8 weeks and the PCT with Rebirth is also 8 weeks, do I then have to stay off of everything for a full 16 weeks instead of just 12 weeks, since the general rule of thumb I hear is time on cycle plus PCT = time off or do you think 12 weeks off would suffice?

 

[TheMovement]

So if the cycle is 8 weeks and the PCT with Rebirth is also 8 weeks, do I then have to stay off of everything for a full 16 weeks instead of just 12 weeks, since the general rule of thumb I hear is time on cycle plus PCT = time off or do you think 12 weeks off would suffice?

Cycle time and pct time is always gna be safer. Just get blood work and you take away the guessing and you could enjoy things more lol. No need to stress and overthink it down the road.

 

[DennisC1986]

I agree with themovement, but at the same time, 16 weeks seems like a long time to be off, especially after 8 weeks of "pct" for a 6 week dhea cycle. But in all honesty, just get a SERM and run it 4 weeks. It will cut your time in half between cycles, that's assuming that you just use the bare minimum of time on plus pct = time off

 

[DennisC1986]

At that rate you could only get one cycle in per calendar year, and one cycle of Andros per year is not going to be anything stellar

 

[bigsmall]

That is true. I am just going to do 8 week cycle of andros, 8 week over the counter PCT, followed by 12 weeks off. That way I can at least get in 2 cycles a year.

By OTC do you mean Rebirth? For Andros, I would not rely on Rebirth - just get clomid and be sure and only have to run it for 4 weeks. AM board sponsers have it (MA reseach for example). If you have ever experienced how ****ty you can feel without proper PCT and how it wrecks your gains - you would never want to use anything but the best and most reliable PCT - get a SERM.

 

[JoePaul39]

By OTC do you mean Rebirth? For Andros, I would not rely on Rebirth - just get clomid and be sure and only have to run it for 4 weeks. AM board sponsers have it (MA reseach for example). If you have ever experienced how ****ty you can feel without proper PCT and how it wrecks your gains - you would never want to use anything but the best and most reliable PCT - get a SERM.

Nope. Not going to violate the law and get a SERM. Not interested. I took 1 andro before for 8 weeks and used only Olympus Labs Sup3r for PCT and AA and was fine.

 

[DennisC1986]

Right dude. By "fine" you mean you had bloodwork done? Youre willing to mess with your hormones but not to bend the law a little. Hope it works out for you, honestly

 

[bigsmall]

Nope. Not going to violate the law and get a SERM. Not interested. I took 1 andro before for 8 weeks and used only Olympus Labs Sup3r for PCT and AA and was fine.

Your a ****ing total moron. Have fun with that lol...

 

[JoePaul39]

Right dude. By "fine" you mean you had bloodwork done? Youre willing to mess with your hormones but not to bend the law a little. Hope it works out for you, honestly

No, I didn't have bloodwork done, but didn't lose much after PCT and only felt really fatigued in the beginning. Thanks for the good wishes. I run the andros because they are legal. If someone is going to get an illegal SERM to begin with, my view is then they might as well do something more potent than the andros. The andros are generally the most mild prohormones around, therefore I do not believe a prescription PCT is necessary though I know it causes shutdown. I do plan on having bloodwork done after PCT this time out of curiosity. I had it done pre-cycle. Besides the Olympus Labs SupSR PCT, I also I also take ARA for PCT, laxogenin, Alpha Jim by Jim Stoppani, and Test HD by Muscletech, and HMB. I realize I won't recover as fast as if I used a SERM, but have accepted that and have my reasons for not taking a SERM.

 

[bigsmall]

No, I didn't have bloodwork done, but didn't lose much after PCT and only felt really fatigued in the beginning. Thanks for the good wishes. I run the andros because they are legal. If someone is going to get an illegal SERM to begin with, my view is then they might as well do something more potent than the andros. The andros are generally the most mild prohormones around, therefore I do not believe a prescription PCT is necessary though I know it causes shutdown. I do plan on having bloodwork done after PCT this time out of curiosity. I had it done pre-cycle. Besides the Olympus Labs SupSR PCT, I also I also take ARA for PCT, laxogenin, Alpha Jim by Jim Stoppani, and Test HD by Muscletech, and HMB. I realize I won't recover as fast as if I used a SERM, but have accepted that and have my reasons for not taking a SERM.

troll

 

[JoePaul39]

troll

Its not "trolling" when the topic of the thread is taking an over the counter post cycle therapy supplement, rather than a SERM for the andros and that it was I was posting about If you look at the posts, I was the one who was "attacked" first just because people disagreed with me electing to not take a SERM. I respect those who decide to use one, but often times those that do take them don't respect those that choose not to.

 

[DennisC1986]

I mean, I for one didn't mean to attack you so I hope you know that. I just have a hard time understanding, it's not like we're talking about heroin or something. It's like a gray area with the law at best when we're talking about research chemicals. I'm guessing you probably wouldn't think twice about driving 1mph over the speed limit or jaywalking. But when it comes to possibly causing permanent damage to your body, you won't even consider it. Seems odd, that's all I mean

 

[210LBS]

I question if it's absolutely necessary to run a SERM for PCT for an andro cycle. It'll help you recover faster, but is it 100% necessary? Eh... I see a lot of people who don't use a SERM and they eventually recover - some fairly quick. 11-KT is another one that everyone on this board claimed requires a SERM but someone on here just ran it without a SERM and did just fine. If you train hard, keep a good diet, and don't have poor habits that can mess with your hormones like drinking, then you may not need a SERM for andros. With that said, SERMs are very easy to get and can help you recover much faster.

 

[Robert11]

Nope. Not going to violate the law and get a SERM. Not interested. I took 1 andro before for 8 weeks and used only Olympus Labs Sup3r for PCT and AA and was fine.

Nobody’s going to come after you for ordering 2x30 boxes of clomid from an online pharmacy. You need to get a better perspective.

 

[JoePaul39]

I mean, I for one didn't mean to attack you so I hope you know that. I just have a hard time understanding, it's not like we're talking about heroin or something. It's like a gray area with the law at best when we're talking about research chemicals. I'm guessing you probably wouldn't think twice about driving 1mph over the speed limit or jaywalking. But when it comes to possibly causing permanent damage to your body, you won't even consider it. Seems odd, that's all I mean

Dennis,

I understand. No worries. I wasn't so much referring to you when I said I was attacked, but rather the poster who called me a fu***** moron on this thread when I said I didn't believe they were necessary with the andros. I just don't want to take a chance on research chemicals because they don't always deliver what your thinking your getting plus there has been no long term research about the safety of such chemicals. The other option is prescription SERM without a prescription which I believe is a felony. I know it is highly improbable one would ever be prosecuted, but I am prone to anxiety a lot, thus its not worth the stress nor worth risking my job over. The other reason I won't take a unprescribed prescription SERM is it is illegal and I am religious.

 

[Cgkone]

I question if it's absolutely necessary to run a SERM for PCT for an andro cycle. It'll help you recover faster, but is it 100% necessary? Eh... I see a lot of people who don't use a SERM and they eventually recover - some fairly quick. 11-KT is another one that everyone on this board claimed requires a SERM but someone on here just ran it without a SERM and did just fine. If you train hard, keep a good diet, and don't have poor habits that can mess with your hormones like drinking, then you may not need a SERM for andros. With that said, SERMs are very easy to get and can help you recover much faster.

I would at least run rebirth.

But back in the day nobody ran PCT.

Test primo dbol and winny was all there was and they just tapered off.

 

[Cgkone]

I would at least run rebirth.

But back in the day nobody ran PCT.

Test primo dbol and winny was all there was and they just tapered off.

Way before my time but that's what the older guys I know say.

 

[210LBS]

I would at least run rebirth.

But back in the day nobody ran PCT.

Test primo dbol and winny was all there was and they just tapered off.

Sure! I would definitely run something. There are actually some studies that show some effectiveness of some of these OTC SERMs. Don't get me wrong, I would opt for a SERM, and I can't imagine not having an AI on hand at least, but some people need to chill.

And your right. I don't remember Arnold taking any SERM. I also don't remember him running test. He broke every rule in the book actually. Of course it was a different time, but still.

 

[JoePaul39]

I agree you have to run something because you will be shut down. I am going to run Olympus Labs Sup3r PCT, along with natty test boosters including Jim Stoppani's test booster Alpha Jym, Test HD by MuscleTech. Then I am going to add in additional supplements- Laxogenin 100 by High Tech, SNS ARA X Gels, and finally HMB. I looked at the ingredients in Rebirth. It only has two. One is E Cottonii Extract at 300 mg, however Olympus Labs Sup3rPCT already has 600 mg of this. The other ingredient in Rebirth is Ellagic Acid at 300 mg. I was able to get bottles of this ingredient as a stand alone on Amazon for less than $10 per bottle and will be dosing it at 600mg. daily because Rebirth says you can take two doses a day. I know my recovery still won't be as efficient or quick as with a SERM, but I think what I have will be sufficient since the andros are the least potent of prohormones. I plan on running bloodwork afterward to see how I have recovered.

 

[DennisC1986]

Can't fault you there man. Your beliefs are your beliefs and that's all there is to it. Seems like you're pretty knowledgeable about what you need to take so good luck man. I'd be interested in seeing g what your bloodwork looks like afterwards

 

[JoePaul39]

Can't fault you there man. Your beliefs are your beliefs and that's all there is to it. Seems like you're pretty knowledgeable about what you need to take so good luck man. I'd be interested in seeing g what your bloodwork looks like afterwards

Thanks. I have 4 weeks left on my cycle then PCT. I will post on this thread after I get my results.

 

[Cgkone]

Yup that's all rebirth is
I would really like to know how it works.
Good luck

 

[JoePaul39]

Yup that's all rebirth is
I would really like to know how it works.
Good luck

Do you think I should get both the estrogen and testosterone levels tested after PCT or do you think I could just get by with the testosterone bloodwork? Both are kind expensive at over $60 each on the site I found, but if I should get both I am fine with that because I will at least know if my pct protocol is effective for going forward. I had my testosterone tested pre-cycle, but not estrogen so wouldn't have any estrogen test to compare it with pre-cycle. I know pct is for not just restoring test, but also for keeping estrogen at bay.

 

[Cgkone]

Do you think I should get both the estrogen and testosterone levels tested after PCT or do you think I could just get by with the testosterone bloodwork? Both are kind expensive at over $60 each on the site I found, but if I should get both I am fine with that because I will at least know if my pct protocol is effective for going forward. I had my testosterone tested pre-cycle, but not estrogen so wouldn't have any estrogen test to compare it with pre-cycle. I know pct is for not just restoring test, but also for keeping estrogen at bay.

At least test and estro.
Yes its worth the 120$

 

[JoePaul39]

At least test and estro.
Yes its worth the 120$

Ok thanks.

 

[JoePaul39]

Yup that's all rebirth is
I would really like to know how it works.
Good luck

Just an update. I had my pct bloodwork done for test readings and my total test was 448. Precycle was 406. As a reminder,I used no serm, but used multiple over the counters and natty test boosters including Olympus SUP3R pct, Ellagic Acid (same doasage as used in Rebirth), Alpha Jim by Jim Stoppani, and Alpha Test by MuscleTech. I did not have estrogen checked because like a dumb ass I didn’t have this tested precycle so I had nothing to compare readings to. Did not feel down during pct. I ran an 8 week cycle of all 3 andros fully dosed for a cut. I also learned the hard way cutting on andros is a total waste of time as my diet was on point and I only lost a little over half percent body fat. I am going to see a doctor now that I am recovered from cycle about getting trt due to subpar total test levels for a 40 year old male and having a desire to remain in the upper level of normal readings the rest of my life. Won’t ever have to run pct ever again and will need less time off between cycles due to this fact too! Figured trt would go good with future sarms runs for cutting since the user would not get suppressed as normal.

 

[Kratom267]

Just curious, if you have religious reasons on buying things like SERMS, how do you justify "my body is a temple" thinking and messing with your hormones?

 

[JoePaul39]

Just curious, if you have religious reasons on buying things like SERMS, how do you justify "my body is a temple" thinking and messing with your hormones?

Serms are illegal without a prescription, trt is not, but I don’t have a problem with anybody who chooses to take serms as that is an individual decision, I just personally choose not to. As far as messing with hormones via trt, trt is not unhealthy, it has actually been proven to be the opposite for your body...it has many heath benefits proven in clinical studies! I am only restoring my test back to levels it originally was. People who have imbalances of serotonin take antidepreressants to balance the chemical and nobody would have a moral problem with that, so I see no difference when one gets trt. I have low end “normal” readings for total test, but really for only being 40 with a reading in the 400s it is more of a reading you would expect from an elderly man and this is with taking 3 test boosters. My free test when not taking any natty test boosters when tested precycle was below normal.

 

[DennisC1986]

I think he may have been referring to the andro use

 

[bigsmall]

Serms are illegal without a prescription, trt is not, but I don’t have a problem with anybody who chooses to take serms as that is an individual decision, I just personally choose not to. As far as messing with hormones via trt, trt is not unhealthy, it has actually been proven to be the opposite for your body...it has many heath benefits proven in clinical studies! I am only restoring my test back to levels it originally was. People who have imbalances of serotonin take antidepreressants to balance the chemical and nobody would have a moral problem with that, so I see no difference when one gets trt. I have low end “normal” readings for total test, but really for only being 40 with a reading in the 400s it is more of a reading you would expect from an elderly man and this is with taking 3 test boosters. My free test when not taking any natty test boosters when tested precycle was below normal.

So your test levels are low cause you did not use a SERM (for a short period) and choose to use TRT (for life)?

 

[JoePaul39]

So your test levels are low cause you did not use a SERM (for a short period) and choose to use TRT (for life)?

Don’t know how you drew that conclusion from what my reading was .You must have not actually read my post because my post cycle total test readings were higher than my precycle readings with no serm used in pct. Free test was also higher post cycle, Unfortunately I have always had low free test before ever having run any anabolics.

 

[JoePaul39]

I think he may have been referring to the andro use

If he is referring to the andro use, andros (unlike unprescribed serms are not illegal), but I will admit he probably has a point with that verse he quoted from a health perspective regarding running andros. It does have negative health effects. I don’t claim to be without sin or hold myself out to be a role model, but with proper on cycle supports, taking equal time off as on between cycles, and avoiding methylated type anabolics IMO the negative impact of running andros and sarms ( though admittedly present) is often overstated/overemphasized by many. There are a lot of other substances both legal and illegal one can take that are far worst for your health and also addictive(smoking, frequent excessive alcohol, other narcotic, pain pills, etc.)

 

[Rad83]

...Highly doubt a reading of 448 will get you trt