M1T Cutting Cycle

[bda55]

Hello

I've been reading here for some time, and would like to say this is one of the nicest forums I've been on. Very informative, to the point, and not too much nonsense, without being a fascist regime. Okay so much for sucking up

I've read alot it isnt really advised to use M1T while cutting, as u need enough carbs etc. Please do read the entire text before starting to flame me about it, though.

I'm gonna explain a little what I've been doing the last months, and what my goals are. I do have some questions after all this blah-blah though

Some stats:
5'9", 167lbs (cutting), been lifting for about 4 years, 2 years seriously
I have no idea of my body fat, I guess somewhere around 15% right now

I included a little graph to show the evolution of my weight since november '04.

- did a 4-week 1-test/4-ad cycle starting half november, followed by 4-week PCT of 6-oxo (if I only had Rebound xt yet then...)
- begin 2005, i had to study alot for my exams etc, and after that we had a holiday for a week, during which I partied quite alot and didnt pay any attention to food or training at all. This is the "screwing around" part on the graph
- I decided to cut, as my body fat got pretty high after having cheat meals more than anything else for over a month. I had never really cut before, so I read up on alot of different diets and methods to finally find something I thought I could keep up with, TP's 3-day carb cycling diet (modified to my needs)

Since 14/02 (10 weeks till now) i lost about 16lbs, so I guess it worked quite well for me (that little peak at the end was cuz i went skiing and didnt do any diet at all, didnt eat or booze like a pig either though). I didn't really include a high-carb-day, I only had no-carb and medium-carb days. The medium carb days I had about 2200 cals with 50-30-20% protein-carbs-fat.

Where i get my cals from:
- protein sources: chicken, turkey, tuna, some kinda fish (no idea of the name in english, yummy though), eggs, whey, casein
- carb sources: brown rice, sweet potatoes, whole wheat pasta (occiasionally, too yummy ), (mostly green) veggies
- fat sources: fish oil, i use extra virgin olive oil to prepare a great deal of my meals, a lil mayonnaise

Supplements:
- multi
- vitamin c (2g/day)
- fish oil (6g/day, results in a lil less than 2g epa/dha)
- whey
- casein
- E/C

On we go.. I am planning to do a cycle of M1T/4-AD in june, while still cutting. This is what I had in mind:

Week 1-4 400mg 4-AD (transdermal)
Week 2-4 10mg M1T

Week 5-8 Rebound XT -> 75-50-50-25mg
Week 5-8 Lean Xtreme -> 200-150-150-150mg

Ancillaries I'll be using are hawthorn berry for BP some weeks in advance till after the cycle, NAC and milk thistle starting a week before the cycle till the end of PCT, and I'll probably use a low dose of sesathin (i would like to be using it right now yet if it werent out of stock everywhere ) during and after the cycle.
If I got trouble with cramps i got potassium and taurine available too (had it for a clen cycle, didnt really get any cramps on it though).

Now finally here are my questions:

1) How much carbs should I be consuming during this M1T cycle? I was thinking of a ratio of 40/40/20 protein/carbs/fat, while staying around 2500cals, so that would be about 250g of carbs..

2) Is it safe to use E/C during this cycle, to help me get my ass into the gym in case I'd be very lethargic? If yes, should I use it daily, or only on training days before workout? (I imagine taking 5mg M1T + 25mg of E and 200mg of C in the morning cant be too healthy :blink: )

3) I had in mind using creatine during PCT (stop the E/C of course if i'd do this), I was just wondering if this wouldnt interfere with all the other stuff I'll be taking, espacially the Lean Xtreme and Sesathin?


I think that is about it, all suggestions and comments are welcome!

 

[chriscool]

*bump*

 

[bda55]

bump ^^

Anyone? I know its quite a bit to read though heh..

 

[UNDERTAKER]

2 things....

1. at your weight, why are you cutting?

2. I still wouldn't use m1t to cut, I wouldnt use any ph to cut. I would use the m1t in your case to bulk and then cut naturally.

 

[bda55]

I'd like to start "with a clean slate" before i start bulking again, IMO i got still too much fat now I'd like to get rid of, my abs are barely visible (only the top ones are somewhat visible). I aint too tall either, its not like im skinny heh

 

[bda55]

1) How much carbs should I be consuming during this M1T cycle? I was thinking of a ratio of 40/40/20 protein/carbs/fat, while staying around 2500cals, so that would be about 250g of carbs..

2) Is it safe to use E/C during this cycle, to help me get my ass into the gym in case I'd be very lethargic? If yes, should I use it daily, or only on training days before workout? (I imagine taking 5mg M1T + 25mg of E and 200mg of C in the morning cant be too healthy

)

3) I had in mind using creatine during PCT (stop the E/C of course if i'd do this), I was just wondering if this wouldnt interfere with all the other stuff I'll be taking, espacially the Lean Xtreme and Sesathin

*bump*

 

[pcn]

For a semi related response, I've tried two cutting cycles, one with M1T and one with Mdien/M5aa. The main component of each was Trimax, with the PH's added to help reduce muscle loss. I lost 15 lbs (4 weeks) with the MDien and 10 (5 weeks) with the M1T. The MDien cycle was better in terms of overall feeling well, as well as the results. Imay have kept more muscle with the M1T, but when I do future cycles M1T will be for gains and MDien for cutting. So bottom line, I would recommend finding something else to use for cutting other than M1T. Maybe others with better M1T results will add their comments.

 

[cpa5oh]

I'm doing a cutter with 5mg M1T...it's been about a week. Strength is up (it is very near my all-time highs...so this isn't newbie strength,) bodyweight is down 2 lbs.

Problem is I feel like sleeping all day...obviously cannot because I work. Kind of hard to feel like working out when you have extreme lethargy, too.

 

[bda55]

I would recommend finding something else to use for cutting other than M1T.

All I stocked up on a bit of is M1T and 4AD powder. I was in a bit of a tight budget the months before the ban, else I would've stocked up on some other PHs too. So an other compound isn't really an option, not that I have to cut with the help of PHs per se, but I just wanted to give it a shot.

I'm doing a cutter with 5mg M1T...it's been about a week. Strength is up (it is very near my all-time highs...so this isn't newbie strength,) bodyweight is down 2 lbs.

Would be nice to see further results.. Are you keeping a log somewhere? If not feel free to post some updates of your cutting cycle in here

Problem is I feel like sleeping all day...obviously cannot because I work. Kind of hard to feel like working out when you have extreme lethargy, too.

Yeah, I guess lethargy could be an issue to get your ass into the gym, especially while on low carbs. That's why I figured I'd use E/C.

 

[pcn]

Good points, I used 10 mg so the 5 mg option might have given me better results. I use ECA while on M1T, but many recommend against it because M1T raises your blood pressure. I also used Hawthorn berry, so that may have helped keep it down.

 

[jwhite]

Well, ****, I guess I'll bite....

I've read alot it isnt really advised to use M1T while cutting, as u need enough carbs etc. Please do read the entire text before starting to flame me about it, though.

I did read the entire text and I still think M1T is absolutely the worst choice for this cutting cycle but we can agree to disagree on that.

- did a 4-week 1-test/4-ad cycle starting half november, followed by 4-week PCT of 6-oxo (if I only had Rebound xt yet then...)

Next time try a longer cycle, 4wks is too short for 1T. Actually an 8wk 1T/4AD cutter might be ok, but I digress.

Where i get my cals from:
- protein sources: chicken, turkey, tuna, some kinda fish (no idea of the name in english, yummy though), eggs, whey, casein
- carb sources: brown rice, sweet potatoes, whole wheat pasta (occiasionally, too yummy ), (mostly green) veggies
- fat sources: fish oil, i use extra virgin olive oil to prepare a great deal of my meals, a lil mayonnaise

Supplements:
- multi
- vitamin c (2g/day)
- fish oil (6g/day, results in a lil less than 2g epa/dha)
- whey
- casein
- E/C

That all looks good...

On we go.. I am planning to do a cycle of M1T/4-AD in june, while still cutting. This is what I had in mind:

Week 1-4 400mg 4-AD (transdermal)
Week 2-4 10mg M1T

Week 5-8 Rebound XT -> 75-50-50-25mg
Week 5-8 Lean Xtreme -> 200-150-150-150mg

We can agree to disagree about the cycle, PCT looks fine.

Now finally here are my questions:

1) How much carbs should I be consuming during this M1T cycle? I was thinking of a ratio of 40/40/20 protein/carbs/fat, while staying around 2500cals, so that would be about 250g of carbs..

2) Is it safe to use E/C during this cycle, to help me get my ass into the gym in case I'd be very lethargic? If yes, should I use it daily, or only on training days before workout? (I imagine taking 5mg M1T + 25mg of E and 200mg of C in the morning cant be too healthy :blink: )

3) I had in mind using creatine during PCT (stop the E/C of course if i'd do this), I was just wondering if this wouldnt interfere with all the other stuff I'll be taking, espacially the Lean Xtreme and Sesathin?

1. At your body weight, 2500 cals seems around maintenance. If I were using such a powerful steroid as part of a cut, I would drastically reduce calories (1500-1700). Being able to do that without losing muscle is a very large part of why androgens are used during a cut.

2. The unsafeness of the M1T far overshadows any risk from EC. It is analogous to drinking antifreeze and then worrying about taking a shot of tequila....

3. It really won't matter either way.

I guess if I had to do something like this myself, I would add either add T3/triac or a really powerful thermogenic (or maybe both) and I would do this with very low calories. Reason being is that if you're going to feel like absolute **** for the four weeks, why not get the most out of it. The androgens retain the muscle and the fat just melts off pretty much no matter what you do with regard to exercise.

 

[cpa5oh]

Would be nice to see further results.. Are you keeping a log somewhere? If not feel free to post some updates of your cutting cycle in here

Yeah, I guess lethargy could be an issue to get your ass into the gym, especially while on low carbs. That's why I figured I'd use E/C.

Not keeping a log mainly because I figured everyone had seen all the M1T logs they'd ever care to look at...

I'll update you with my progress if you would like...gotta tell you I REALLY don't like the way I feel. Wasn't so bad when bulking...but when cutting it's hard to be motivated to do ANYTHING.

 

[bda55]

1. At your body weight, 2500 cals seems around maintenance. If I were using such a powerful steroid as part of a cut, I would drastically reduce calories (1500-1700). Being able to do that without losing muscle is a very large part of why androgens are used during a cut.

I've been at that calorie intake for quite a while now actually (actually quite a bit lower on some days (no carb days), but alternating with higher carb days it averages weekly in that range). If my macros are like 50/25/25 on 1700cals I'd be getting around 200g of protein, 100g of carbs and 50g of fat, which all seems so little while on androgrens.. Thats why I thought to up the cals a bit.

2. The unsafeness of the M1T far overshadows any risk from EC. It is analogous to drinking antifreeze and then worrying about taking a shot of tequila.....

I have no problems with E/C stack, I love being on it. Just checking if there wasn't anything "bad" about stacking M1T with E/C, other than the fact they both can raise BP.

I guess if I had to do something like this myself, I would add either add T3/triac or a really powerful thermogenic (or maybe both) and I would do this with very low calories. Reason being is that if you're going to feel like absolute **** for the four weeks, why not get the most out of it. The androgens retain the muscle and the fat just melts off pretty much no matter what you do with regard to exercise.

I guess E/C won't suffice ?
That part in italic is hilarious, by the way..

Thx for the reply! :goodpost:

 

[jwhite]

I've been at that calorie intake for quite a while now actually (actually quite a bit lower on some days (no carb days), but alternating with higher carb days it averages weekly in that range). If my macros are like 50/25/25 on 1700cals I'd be getting around 200g of protein, 100g of carbs and 50g of fat, which all seems so little while on androgrens.. Thats why I thought to up the cals a bit.

Doing a CKD type diet?

Sure it's way low if you want to gain muscle, however your primary goal should be losing fat and it's not too little to acheive that goal. Androgens on a cut are primarily to prevent your body from eating your hard earned muscle. If you have a chance, read some of Lyle McDonald's work, he goes into much greater detail about how and why your body reacts on a diet. He doesn't go into too much detail about how steroids fit into the picture but it's pretty easy to connect the dots. Also, the "F*** My Ass is Fat Diet" is both amusing and educational....

I have no problems with E/C stack, I love being on it. Just checking if there wasn't anything "bad" about stacking M1T with E/C, other than the fact they both can raise BP.

Yup, it's a good idea to monitor your BP especially if you are susceptible.

I guess E/C won't suffice ?

It's a moderate thermogenic. Take E/C if you're comfortable with it, something else if you've wanted to try it. Having an androgen in the mix opens up new options because nutrient partitioning and muscle sparing effects just aren't as important anymore. The M1T will make it very hard to lose significant muscle mass.

 

[IdahoSpud]

FYI - I tried this and liked it:

But then again one guy posted that I was 'stupid' becasue "M1T converts to estrogen", when I posted my pic.

OTOH, M1T doesn't aromatize - at least not according to Patrick Arnold. But maybe this underwear model guy was more knowledgable than PA. I dunno. I liked the results.

http://www.anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20488

 

[bda55]

Doing a CKD type diet?

Yep

If you have a chance, read some of Lyle McDonald's work, he goes into much greater detail about how and why your body reacts on a diet. He doesn't go into too much detail about how steroids fit into the picture but it's pretty easy to connect the dots. Also, the "F*** My Ass is Fat Diet" is both amusing and educational...

I will look into that when I find some more time, its around midnight over here

Yup, it's a good idea to monitor your BP especially if you are susceptible.

I've never had any issues with BP, but my mother has been on medication for elevated BP since I was born, so I will be watching it closely.

It's a moderate thermogenic. Take E/C if you're comfortable with it, something else if you've wanted to try it. Having an androgen in the mix opens up new options because nutrient partitioning and muscle sparing effects just aren't as important anymore. The M1T will make it very hard to lose significant muscle mass.

I've used Clen before too, but honestly I like E/C much better..

Thx for the advice again! :thumbsup:

 

[bda55]

FYI - I tried this and liked it:

But then again one guy posted that I was 'stupid' becasue "M1T converts to estrogen", when I posted my pic.

OTOH, M1T doesn't aromatize - at least not according to Patrick Arnold. But maybe this underwear model guy was more knowledgable than PA. I dunno. I liked the results.

http://www.anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20488

I will check that out when I got some more time on my hands. Thx!

PS: What does "OTOH" mean? Never seen that acronym..

 

[Beelzebub]

I will check that out when I got some more time on my hands. Thx!

PS: What does "OTOH" mean? Never seen that acronym..

OTOH = on the other hand

 

[pu12en12g]

2 things....

1. at your weight, why are you cutting?

2. I still wouldn't use m1t to cut, I wouldnt use any ph to cut. I would use the m1t in your case to bulk and then cut naturally.

^^^^ Agreed