Something for cleaning up gains

[UNDERTAKER]

If one were to do a newbie bulking cycle. Said something like...

Weeks 1-2 Anadrol 75mg ed
Weeks 3-4 Anadrol 115mg ed
Weeks 1-15 Test E 500mg/wk

What would be a good compound to clean up the gains towards the end of the cycle? Please no ph's and or superdrol. Maybe winny or anavar? I dont know if winny is too dry for a bulker.

 

[kwantam]

What would be a good compound to clean up the gains towards the end of the cycle?

Tren at a moderate dose (75-100mg EOD) would work nicely.

I don't necessarily like the idea of adding another oral after having had 4 weeks of anadrol at the beginning of the cycle. Having said that, winny would definitely harden you up substantially. You might also consider masteron, proviron, primobolan, or anavar.

You could also consider just switching the enan to prop late in the cycle and adding a little femara; depending on your goals, this could be "good enough" without requiring another oral or contravening the "rule" about tren and first cycles.

-kwantam

 

[UNDERTAKER]

first----are you talking about oral tren? what is the tren rule? Second, this senerio would be a bulk then only a slight lean out, nothing major. Which oral you have stated would be best for a slight lean out/hardener.

 

[kwantam]

first----are you talking about oral tren?

No, IM tren ace 75 or 100mg EOD.

what is the tren rule?

You'll often see it said that "tren should never be used as a first cycle." I don't necessarily agree with this notion, especially if you're sensible on the dosing; I'm sure others will chime in on this issue (as any mention of tren seems to bring out some opinion or other ).

Second, this senerio would be a bulk then only a slight lean out, nothing major. Which oral you have stated would be best for a slight lean out/hardener.

The best would probably be winny, but have a care about your liver, since you'll already have done 4 weeks of anadrol.

Personally I'd go with tren and flipping over to prop late in the cycle with optional AI, but I wouldn't be surprised if some disagreed with me.

-kwantam

 

[UNDERTAKER]

but it would be four weeks of drol then six weeks off riding solo on test e, then 4 weeks of winny. isnt six weeks off enough time between? with proper liver supp of course.

 

[glenihan]

the best thing for cleaning up gains is a clean diet and cardio .. people rely on drugs for too much

 

[UNDERTAKER]

then would you suggest simply ending the cycle with just test e?

 

[kwantam]

isnt six weeks off enough time between? with proper liver supp of course.

6 weeks isn't bad, but the best would be to have a liver panel after 6 weeks off the anadrol before deciding whether to go on the winny or not.

My guess is that you'd be fine, but---as always---it's best to err on the side of caution.

Definitely chow down on the milk thistle and NAC

-kwantam

 

[Cuffs]

the best thing for cleaning up gains is a clean diet and cardio .. people rely on drugs for too much

Dahhh!!!...that's what I was going to say.

 

[UNDERTAKER]

the focus would be more for solidifying the gains, not really loosing the bulk weight and to make the gains more quality.

 

[Cuffs]

the focus would be more for solidifying the gains, not really loosing the bulk weight and to make the gains more quality.

I know a dude who is doing that right now. I heard he used winny at the end of his cycle, and is using cAMPH, Sesathin, and proper diet. He's looking good so far, with the exception of the acne.

 

[UNDERTAKER]

isnt winny more of a straight up cutter though?

 

[knox]

i like using test prop for the last 2 weeks, seems to help solidify the gains.

 

[Beelzebub]

What would be a good compound to clean up the gains towards the end of the cycle?

clean food.

 

[chasec]

If one were to do a newbie bulking cycle. Said something like...

Weeks 1-2 Anadrol 75mg ed
Weeks 3-4 Anadrol 115mg ed
Weeks 1-15 Test E 500mg/wk

What would be a good compound to clean up the gains towards the end of the cycle? Please no ph's and or superdrol. Maybe winny or anavar? I dont know if winny is too dry for a bulker.

i'd put my money on anavar. if that's not available/too pricey go with the winstrol. if you do use winstrol, please be sensible and run some form of liver protection before and after your cylce and blood tests. (you are doing blood test after 6-8 weeks of an oral androgen, right?)

 

[CarryOnTheChaos]

I would also go for anavar as I believe winstrol may be a little much for your liver...then again you could OD on milk thistle and NAC oke:

Winny messes with lipid profiles so badly...I would not run it post anadrol in the same cycle.

regards,
COTC

 

[Alpine]

the best thing for cleaning up gains is a clean diet and cardio .. people rely on drugs for too much

I agree with that... Just do cardio at the end (wk 9-15?) and dont get super sloppy during your cycle. Bulking doesnt mean being a fucking pig it means eating MORE CLEAN FOOD. On my first cycle I all out bulked. I ate everything in site and gained nearly 30lb (bloated as hell). I learned my lesson the hard way. Its not worth it imo to get sloppy even when bulking. I would rather gain less (10-12lb quality lean mass) than have to cut for 6 weeks to see any abs again.

Btw, Anadrol and "newbie" hardly go together. I thought i saw mention on Tren in a reply too. Not so sure either of those should share any place with "newbie".

I would kickstart with 25-30mg dbol or even better 40-50mg Tbol. Do yourself a favor and eat clean while still keeping your calories high. Simply hitting a calorie mark with shitty empty calories will do nothing but leave you with a gut. Steroids are not magic.

Good Luck

 

[Beelzebub]

I learned my lesson the hard way. Its not worth it imo to get sloppy even when bulking. I would rather gain less (10-12lb quality lean mass) than have to cut for 6 weeks to see any abs again.

word :goodpost:

 

[LCSULLA]

word :goodpost:

Beelz said word... :lol:

 

[exnihilo]

If one were to do a newbie bulking cycle. Said something like...

Weeks 1-2 Anadrol 75mg ed
Weeks 3-4 Anadrol 115mg ed
Weeks 1-15 Test E 500mg/wk

What would be a good compound to clean up the gains towards the end of the cycle? Please no ph's and or superdrol. Maybe winny or anavar? I dont know if winny is too dry for a bulker.

No need to taper up the anadrol dosage.

I would run tren at 50mg ED as soon as you get off the anadrol, and run it for the remainder of your cycle. Also, if you want to really harden up (and your diet is in check) you could get some clenbuterol and ketotifen and run that towards the end, maybe the last 4 weeks (beware, clen + tren = evil person, in most cases).

 

[UNDERTAKER]

what about running m4ohn for the last 4 or 5 weeks at like 24-36mg ed?

 

[Alpine]

what about running m4ohn for the last 4 or 5 weeks at like 24-36mg ed?

If the diet and cardio arent there it doesnt matter what he adds in towards the end...

The only thing i can think of that could drastically alter overall body composition with little change in diet or cardio is probably Tren. It's pretty amazing stuff. This shouldnt be a "newbie" choice though anyway. Plus I wouldnt bother running Tren for less than 10 weeks personally.

 

[UNDERTAKER]

so could the cycle simply be ended with test e? then on to pct?

 

[Alpine]

so could the cycle simply be ended with test e? then on to pct?

Yes, and for a 1st or 2nd cycle or "newbie" cycle as stated I think it would be best.

Just clean up the diet and do daily cardio the last 5 or so weeks. This way you can lose a little bf and not worry about losing muscle.
I would take it easy on cardio until after PCT and you recover fully. You are in a very catabolic state during this time.

Technically you can cut or bulk on any AAS. Its just that some are better (much better) than others for specific purposes. Its still all about protein/carbs/fat, cals and overall cals burned when you want to get defined.

 

[CarryOnTheChaos]

I think the diet and cardio idea is of course the best...dedication will get you anything you want...not the drugs you stack. The drugs do 15% and YOU do the other 85% IMO.

I think tren can be run for much shorter than 10 weeks, I have had great success with a simple 4 week cycle of tren and test. Just make sure you try acetate your first time in case you react badly to it. I would try maybe 75mg EOD but not much more is needed IMO for a first cycle.

regards,
COTC

 

[Alpine]

I think the diet and cardio idea is of course the best...dedication will get you anything you want...not the drugs you stack. The drugs do 15% and YOU do the other 85% IMO.

I think tren can be run for much shorter than 10 weeks, I have had great success with a simple 4 week cycle of tren and test. Just make sure you try acetate your first time in case you react badly to it. I would try maybe 75mg EOD but not much more is needed IMO for a first cycle.

regards,
COTC

If its Tren Ace I could see getting decent results in 4-6 weeks. I recently used BD's Tren Depot (Para) along with Test and it REALLY started to shine around week 8+ it seemed. Thats when the hardness and vascularity really started to show. Ive seen a few other people (JGuns @ CEM) mention that Tren really starts to shine for them after its been run a little longer. I only bought 10 weeks worth and I wish I had more like 12-14. BD's Tren is so damn expensive but its great stuff...

 

[jminis]

I usually run a strong anabolic low adrogenic compound to help solidify gains.

 

[UNDERTAKER]

would any ancillaries be needed for this kinda cycle?

 

[Shake]

would any ancillaries be needed for this kinda cycle?

....ummm.........YEA........... as a side note hit up the winny, will harden u nicely.

 

[Cuffs]

would any ancillaries be needed for this kinda cycle?

Nolva...always!

 

[bigpetefox]

You'll need PCT for ANYTHING you run, even 'var... It's been said before, clean food and cardio will help but if you must, I'd say prop and 50mg proviron the last 3 weeks..

 

[Alpine]

would any ancillaries be needed for this kinda cycle?

On any first cycle I would have Nolva on hand. You never know how any one person reacts. This way if gyno starts to show up you can prevent it.

With just Test @ 500mg/wk you probably dont need any AI such as Arimidex. But if you run Anadrol or Dbol I would use a low dose like .25mg ED or something - this is just my opinion thogh. Anadrol will blow you up like a balloon. Some people can run 500-750mg of test with no trouble but might get gyno from a normal range dose of Anadrol or even Dbol.

Whatever you do, have Nolva on hand for backup.
Also you will need all your PCT stuff...

Good Luck

 

[UNDERTAKER]

Arimidex is for bloat, correct? What about Letro?

 

[kwantam]

Arimidex is for bloat, correct? What about Letro?

Arimidex and femara (letrozole) are both aromatase inhibitors, so they'll keep the test from converting to estrogen. This will help prevent both estrogenic bloat and gyno.

-kwantam

 

[mb27]

Maybe I should start a seperate post on this but why do people refer to "bloat" as water retention? Bloat in my book is being bloated, ie distended stomach due to a high volume of food, growth hormone, or gas. Water retention would be edema or water held directly under the skin. I guess I'm just confused.

 

[bigpetefox]

Maybe I should start a seperate post on this but why do people refer to "bloat" as water retention? Bloat in my book is being bloated, ie distended stomach due to a high volume of food, growth hormone, or gas. Water retention would be edema or water held directly under the skin. I guess I'm just confused.

Estrogen-induced water retention is what we call "bloat".. Edema is the right word, but you know how us big muscleheads are..

 

[mb27]

ah, ok

 

[UNDERTAKER]

i know about nolva, asides from that

 

[UNDERTAKER]

are adex and letro injections? are they really nessacary?

 

[LCSULLA]

are adex and letro injections? are they really nessacary?

No. Their oral and for some people they are nessacary. But only one or the other, no need for both.

 

[UNDERTAKER]

does it just kill bloat? I didnt realize is was a breast cancer treatment like nolva. The purpose of this cycle would not be for dry gains, it would be for straight bulk. Does letro hinder the benefits of estrogen as far as gains (mass)

 

[Boss_K]

does it just kill bloat? I didnt realize is was a breast cancer treatment like nolva. The purpose of this cycle would not be for dry gains, it would be for straight bulk. Does letro hinder the benefits of estrogen as far as gains (mass)

yes letro inhibits the "benefits" of estro, although i dont find any benefits in having excess estrogen...some guys might say otherwise. i like to stay dry and hard.

 

[bigpetefox]

are adex and letro injections? are they really nessacary?

Pharmaceutical grade Arimidex comes in tablets and injectable.. Tablets are easier to get, the injectable is 'script only.. Femara (letro) is tablet form, but these two can be purchased for research use in oral form..