Ketotifen! Really necessary with clen or not?

[1test]

Question- if I'm only running clen 30-40 days, do I really need ketotifen?

 

[DennisTheDane]

I was told yes.. It helps your recpetors to get refreshed. So you wont get use to the clenbuterol. If you dont have to keto. Then cycle it like this : 2 weeks on and then two weeks of. Repeat. Gradully raise the dosage. Of the clen day by day. Until you feel it.

 

[1test]

I was told yes.. It helps your recpetors to get refreshed. So you wont get use to the clenbuterol. If you dont have to keto. Then cycle it like this : 2 weeks on and then two weeks of. Repeat. Gradully raise the dosage. Of the clen day by day. Until you feel it.

Sweet thanks
That's exactly what i was wondering. How about 4 weeks on and 4 weeks off? I'll also be using ephedrine all the way.

 

[pogue]

Sweet thanks
That's exactly what i was wondering. How about 4 weeks on and 4 weeks off? I'll also be using ephedrine all the way.

You do not want to take ephedrine with Clen. That is crazy. Yes you need ketotifen if you are using Clen for more than 2 weeks otherwise it will quit working. I would recommend doing a bit more research before you start.

 

[warbird01]

If you want to do 4 weeks on 4 weeks off, why not just do 2-2-2-2?

 

[JG93]

Definitely do not use Ephed.... That is nuts man! worse than Meth on your heart lol, not to mention the shakes, and clens nasty sides if overdone.

either do 2 weeks on 2 weeks off so you do not need Keto, Or do 3 on 2 off. The half life is quite good, so even at the end of two weeks, you will have it still in your system for a bit.

I am also going to start a clen cylce. Im looking 2 on 2 off as it is the easiest to deal with.

20 mg start, taper up as needed.
Im expecting to be around 60mg by day 6. Again, Clen can have some sides if over done. Dont try to pro long it, just take it as a 2 on 2 off system.

 

[DennisTheDane]

Sweet thanks
That's exactly what i was wondering. How about 4 weeks on and 4 weeks off? I'll also be using ephedrine all the way.

I Think the max without keto is 2/2 repeat. And I think ephedrine may touch the same receptors!! Watch your self and your heart

 

[heavylifter33]

Question- if I'm only running clen 30-40 days, do I really need ketotifen?

You will get about 12-14 days of clen efficacy without using Ketotifen. With Ketotifen you could run much longer without a break so the receptors can upregulate.

As for ephedrine yes you can use with clen. Ephedrine hits beta 1 and 2 and 3, and because it's not site specific you don't have to worry about competition. Given proper hydration, BP/HR monitoring, and common sense you can efficiently use Ephedrine which is a nice added bonus. Years back i looked in to exactly how ephedrine would compliment clen and found some interesting data. It's been a while and it would take a bit to find it again, but at that point it seemed quite promising.

 

[pogue]

You will get about 12-14 days of clen efficacy without using Ketotifen. With Ketotifen you could run much longer without a break so the receptors can upregulate.

As for ephedrine yes you can use with clen. Ephedrine hits beta 1 and 2 and 3, and because it's not site specific you don't have to worry about competition. Given proper hydration, BP/HR monitoring, and common sense you can efficiently use Ephedrine which is a nice added bonus. Years back i looked in to exactly how ephedrine would compliment clen and found some interesting data. It's been a while and it would take a bit to find it again, but at that point it seemed quite promising.

This is absolutely dangerous and reckless advice. DO NOT COMBINE CLENBUTEROL AND EPHEDRINE!

 

[1test]

Thanks guys for your input.
Although as Rhadam said i have also read that clen and ephedrine work on different receptors so might just try.
Have successfully ran clen and ephedrine both at different occasions not together though. Would really like to experiment in my next cut which won't be anytime soon, just gathering as much info as possible.

 

[StanleyG]

They dont work on different receptors. Ephed does work on some that clen does not however they both hit b2 recptors, clen to a much greater degree. Do not, imo , combine them.
Without keto run 2 on, 2 off. With keto at 1mg/day, taken an night before bed, you can run clen for up to 8 weeks straight safely IMO.
Absolutely do not take clen "until you feel it", thats not prudent and could lead you to taking high and even dangerous doses of clen. Never measure effectiveness by sides. Measure clens effectiveness using a thermometer. Take your temp before starting. Start at 40mcg of clen/day. Take your temp 6 hours after dosing clen. You should see a 1 degree increase in body temp if clen is at its optimal dosage. If you dont adjust dosage till you do and keep clen AT THAT DOSAGE! No pre arranged increases in dosage. Thats foolish. Why increase if it is working. You can check regularly with a thermometer.
I like keto for several reasons. Running clen without a break compounds it effectiveness (quicker results), also keto keeps doses of clen reasonable and responsible.
Best of Luck.

 

[1test]

They dont work on different receptors. Ephed does work on some that clen does not however they both hit b2 recptors, clen to a much greater degree. Do not, imo , combine them.
Without keto run 2 on, 2 off. With keto at 1mg/day, taken an night before bed, you can run clen for up to 8 weeks straight safely IMO.
Absolutely do not take clen "until you feel it", thats not prudent and could lead you to taking high and even dangerous doses of clen. Never measure effectiveness by sides. Measure clens effectiveness using a thermometer. Take your temp before starting. Start at 40mg of clen/day. Take your temp 6 hours after dosing clen. You should see a 1 degree increase in body temp if clen is at its optimal dosage. If you dont adjust dosage till you do and keep clen AT THAT DOSAGE! No pre arranged increases in dosage. Thats foolish. Why increase if it is working. You can check regularly with a thermometer.
I like keto for several reasons. Running clen without a break compounds it effectiveness (quicker results), also keto keeps doses of clen reasonable and responsible.
Best of Luck.

Thanks
Appreciate the detailed info

 

[pogue]

If you want to combine Clen with something then yohimbine would be ideal. It's going to hit the A2 receptor to release a lot of those triglycerides into the blood stream where you can oxidize them. A2 is especially prevalent in trouble spots.

Eph and clen would put your blood pressure through the roof and be an extremely dangerous combo.

 

[uubiduu]

can you tell me something about the need for keto when running albuterol?

 

[JG93]

can you tell me something about the need for keto when running albuterol?

You don't need it with albuterol.
With Clen, it helps keep receptors fresh, so you can run it without breaks.

 

[Convicted]

I used ephedrine caffeine aspirin, benadryl with clen and stayed on for years without coming off. Came off a month here and there from time to time and had no sides except the veins in my abs... I had a job where I had to stay shredded year round and I would not advise anyone else this unless you were in a position like me. But eca is fine with clen and you can actually use t3 with it also but you better be on some gear unless u want to loose muscle.

 

[Convicted]

This is absolutely dangerous and reckless advice. DO NOT COMBINE CLENBUTEROL AND EPHEDRINE!

That's not true. I know a **** load of competitors that use just that along with t3 and other drugs I won't mention... all the way from amateurs to ifbb pros. I used the combo for YEARS myself and I am completely fine. Just do the research and be smart about it and cautious.

 

[StanleyG]

Thats interesting considering benadryl is useless for keeping the b2 receptors from becoming down-regulated.

 

[Convicted]

Well it worked for me and like I said I had veins in my abs 12 months a year. I only used benadryl when I didn't have ketotifen but eca was always incorporated with the clenbuterol and yohimbie also although I always hated the way I felt on yohimbie so I only took that sometimes.

 

[StanleyG]

All benadryl will do is make you tired. It doesnt do anything to "clean" or scrub b2 receptors, so again it is interesting that this was you experienced. You took 2 compounds that both hit the b2 receptor (one primarily and one secondarily), took a compound that does nothing to keep the b2 receptor up-regulated, yet experienced no b2 down-regulation what so ever.
That is far from the norm that the majority would experience I can assure you.
Perhaps your results were more due to the primary factors that dictate your bf% anyway, which is proper diet.
I would encourage those that are looking for something to prevent b2 down-regulation to look to a compound that will actually accomplish this, like ketotifen. It is dirt cheap, like under $20 and it really works. Allowing you to keep your clen doses at a reasonable and responsible level.

 

[BamBam0319]

I really hope you guys all mean micrograms (mcg) when you're writing milligrams (mg)

 

[Parad0x]

I really hope you guys all mean micrograms (mcg) when you're writing milligrams (mg)

Surely someone would be dead if they actually took it in migs instead of micros

 

[BamBam0319]

Surely someone would be dead if they actually took it in migs instead of micros

Exactly lol just wanted to put that out there, just for those who may not be knowledgeable on clen dosing and get confused

 

[StanleyG]

Exactly lol just wanted to put that out there, just for those who may not be knowledgeable on clen dosing and get confused

and its good that you did put it out there man.......

 

[Convicted]

All benadryl will do is make you tired. It doesnt do anything to "clean" or scrub b2 receptors, so again it is interesting that this was you experienced. You took 2 compounds that both hit the b2 receptor (one primarily and one secondarily), took a compound that does nothing to keep the b2 receptor up-regulated, yet experienced no b2 down-regulation what so ever.
That is far from the norm that the majority would experience I can assure you.
Perhaps your results were more due to the primary factors that dictate your bf% anyway, which is proper diet.
I would encourage those that are looking for something to prevent b2 down-regulation to look to a compound that will actually accomplish this, like ketotifen. It is dirt cheap, like under $20 and it really works. Allowing you to keep your clen doses at a reasonable and responsible level.

Yep, I only took the benadryl when I didn't have the ketotifen. I've read ton of studies saying that it doesn't help but I took it before bed anyway. Doesn't t3 help down regulate the receptor also? And does yohimbie not hit the other receptors?

 

[Blergs]

Yeah benadryl wont help with clen/albut use. there is some calcium channel blah blah blah that it may help temporarily, but not with clen and B2 receptors. anyone reading this; just get keto, its cheap as jimmy stated and works.

 

[Parad0x]

Exactly lol just wanted to put that out there, just for those who may not be knowledgeable on clen dosing and get confused

I know man lol i read between the lines. Just had to add on a little bit as to the definitive side effect of using a larger dosing scale than micros

 

[BamBam0319]

I know man lol i read between the lines. Just had to add on a little bit as to the definitive side effect of using a larger dosing scale than micros

Oh yeah. Even 1mg clen would really mess someone up.

 

[Parad0x]

Oh yeah. Even 1mg clen would really mess someone up.

Oh most definitely. That'd be like overclocking a computer to extreme conditions. Sub-molecular burnout?

 

[pogue]

That's not true. I know a **** load of competitors that use just that along with t3 and other drugs I won't mention... all the way from amateurs to ifbb pros. I used the combo for YEARS myself and I am completely fine. Just do the research and be smart about it and cautious.

What's your blood pressure on Clen and ephedrine?

 

[pogue]

All benadryl will do is make you tired. It doesnt do anything to "clean" or scrub b2 receptors, so again it is interesting that this was you experienced. You took 2 compounds that both hit the b2 receptor (one primarily and one secondarily), took a compound that does nothing to keep the b2 receptor up-regulated, yet experienced no b2 down-regulation what so ever.
That is far from the norm that the majority would experience I can assure you.
Perhaps your results were more due to the primary factors that dictate your bf% anyway, which is proper diet.
I would encourage those that are looking for something to prevent b2 down-regulation to look to a compound that will actually accomplish this, like ketotifen. It is dirt cheap, like under $20 and it really works. Allowing you to keep your clen doses at a reasonable and responsible level.

Pretty sure Benadryl is effective at doing this.
http://tnation.t-nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_gear/clen_benadryl_and_postclen (2nd post)

 

[Convicted]

Just sitting and doing nothing my bp fluctuates, but I've measured it a couple times at around 145/60 just because I was curious, I was on gear also at that time. Off of everything including gear my bp is 100/60 and I'm 32yo. I take aspirin with ephedrine also and that prob helps to lower it. I know that some people would have a much higher bp, but if you are in good cardiovascular health I think you'll be fine. If you are an out of shape guy it might actually be reckless to take that combo or if you have a history of heart problems. Everyone is diff and some people are not going to be able to Handel it, I agree.

 

[pogue]

Just sitting and doing nothing my bp fluctuates, but I've measured it a couple times at around 145/60 just because I was curious, I was on gear also at that time. Off of everything including gear my bp is 100/60 and I'm 32yo. I take aspirin with ephedrine also and that prob helps to lower it. I know that some people would have a much higher bp, but if you are in good cardiovascular health I think you'll be fine. If you are an out of shape guy it might actually be reckless to take that combo or if you have a history of heart problems. Everyone is diff and some people are not going to be able to Handel it, I agree.

I think ephedrine and Clen is not only dangerous but it's really overkill. Clen + yohimbine is a good combo and do that for 2 weeks and ECA for two weeks if you really want.

 

[Convicted]

I think ephedrine and Clen is not only dangerous but it's really overkill. Clen + yohimbine is a good combo and do that for 2 weeks and ECA for two weeks if you really want.

It really melts the fat off though. Yeah yohimbie is great in there also. For me though, yohimbie is what made me feel horrible... I would still rake it here and there though. Have you heard of Helios? Its an injectable clen, yohimbie mix.

 

[BamBam0319]

It really melts the fat off though. Yeah yohimbie is great in there also. For me though, yohimbie is what made me feel horrible... I would still rake it here and there though. Have you heard of Helios? Its an injectable clen, yohimbie mix.

Now that sounds fun...

 

[StanleyG]

Pretty sure Benadryl is effective at doing this.
http://tnation.t-nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_gear/clen_benadryl_and_postclen (2nd post)

Yeah- it doesnt. This BS was originally put out there by Anthony Roberts based on pure speculation.
Ronnie Rowland at steroid .com posted and totally disproved this at total garbage which was great for the many people such as myself that had tried benadryl only to find that it didnt do **** for them.
Anthony Roberts is a POS idiot that literally makes **** up based on speculation, Ronnie Rowland is an intelligent individual that truly understands the MOA required to prevent b2 receptor downregulation and he totally disproved the hair brained benadryl BS that took off like wildfire as fact.
Its a valuable lesson- broscience is still alive and well and people TRULY believe and will even swear by it. Luckily real science and people that are honest about their experience are still around as well and the truth usually comes out in the end...like this.
Just because you read it doesnt make it true for christs sake.....

 

[pogue]

Yeah- it doesnt. This BS was originally put out there by Anthony Roberts based on pure speculation.
Ronnie Rowland at steroid .com posted and totally disproved this at total garbage which was great for the many people such as myself that had tried benadryl only to find that it didnt do **** for them.
Anthony Roberts is a POS idiot that literally makes **** up based on speculation, Ronnie Rowland is an intelligent individual that truly understands the MOA required to prevent b2 receptor downregulation and he totally disproved the hair brained benadryl BS that took off like wildfire as fact.
Its a valuable lesson- broscience is still alive and well and people TRULY believe and will even swear by it. Luckily real science and people that are honest about their experience are still around as well and the truth usually comes out in the end...like this.
Just because you read it doesnt make it true for christs sake.....

I'm looking a little more in this, because I always assumed it was true - or I just forgot what I originally thought about it. I found the post you mentioned, but I see mixed results on the Benadryl + Clen combo with some people saying they saw benefits, others saying none. Which got me to thinking if the Benadryl thing is bogus, where did the idea that ketotifen kept b2 from downregulating come from? Could that also just be a broscience legend?

I'm trying to find the oral pharmacology for ketotifen, which is proving difficult because it's usually prescribed as eyedrops in the US. I'll do some more searching tomorrow and see what I can come up with. I asked Anthony Roberts if he wanted to comment on his theory here, but he doesn't seem interested in it.

 

[StanleyG]

I'm looking a little more in this, because I always assumed it was true - or I just forgot what I originally thought about it. I found the post you mentioned, but I see mixed results on the Benadryl + Clen combo with some people saying they saw benefits, others saying none. Which got me to thinking if the Benadryl thing is bogus, where did the idea that ketotifen kept b2 from downregulating come from? Could that also just be a broscience legend?

I'm trying to find the oral pharmacology for ketotifen, which is proving difficult because it's usually prescribed as eyedrops in the US. I'll do some more searching tomorrow and see what I can come up with. I asked Anthony Roberts if he wanted to comment on his theory here, but he doesn't seem interested in it.

Of course he isnt, because he knows its bull****.
Oh and as far as keto it prob has to do with b2 receptor effects on mast cell infiltration - start there.