PH question, what would you do in my situation?

[mysterious_7]

I've been cutting for 4 weeks and I've been taking 1-Androsterone and 4-Androsterone for the past 6 weeks (only started my cut after 2 weeks of being on Prohormones). I also added HydroxyElite after week 2 when I started my cut (been on it for 4 weeks so far).

I am also in a 650 calories deficit, so far I dropped from 22.8% bf to about 18-19% bf, I lost 4.5kg so far (9.9lbs) in 4 weeks and things are looking good.

I still have a lot of cutting to do to get down to 12% bf, at least another 11 weeks of cutting. But I can't keep taking 1-andro and 4-andro for such a long duration without a break! I heard they're hard on your liver and kidneys

But I am also paranoid to cut without prohormones and lose muscle in the process, specially during the PCT period. The prohormones I am taking are preserving my muscles during my current cut, I don't think I have lost any muscle mass or strength. If anything I probably got stronger and my muscles grew slightly even though I am on a calorie deficit.

I also don't want to take a break and delay my cutting because summer is around the corner where I live and I am lagging behind on schedule. I packed a lot of fat during my last bulk and I started cutting too late.

I got 3 options:

1- Continue cutting for another 11 weeks and continue taking prohormones for this duration while investing in the best liver/kidney support products in the market. Could be risky for liver health (p.s. I never had liver issues but PH are hard on the liver)

2- Continue cutting for another 11 weeks and get off the Prohormones. Muscle mass will probably be lost in the process specially during PCT

3- Stop cutting, stop taking prohormones, get back to eating at maintenance calories and do PCT for 4 weeks then get back to taking prohormones again and cutting after the PCT is over. Not ideal timing wise

Stats:

Age: 25yo
Gender: Male
current weight: 190lbs (weight before cut = 200lbs)
current bf%: ~19% (bf% before cut = ~23%)
Height: 6 feet

Supplements taken:

1-Androsterone 330mg per day
4-Androsterone 330mg per day
HydroxyElite 2 capsules daily
Milk thistle for liver support
Multivitamin
Fish oil and glucosamine for joints dryness
Letrozole for minor pubertal gyno (it's working so far, lump is slowly getting smaller)

Thanks in advance for the advise

 

[Smont]

1ad and 4ad are non methyl and put very little to no stress on your liver and i dont know of any ph that stresses your kidney. Sounds like your not too informed on what your taking. Plenty of ppl run these dhea based prohormones for 8-12weeks.

So u can continue on or bridge into something else just make sure you have Clomid or nolva for pct

 

[muscleless]

I second that. DHEA derivatives are super mild. If it were me i would just do pct and maintain for a month, even continue cutting, up protein and lower carbs even more. Get on some creatine too. You might gain water weight but the second you stop and jump back on cycle, you'll piss most of it out and probably look even more shredded than before.

 

[mysterious_7]

1ad and 4ad are non methyl and put very little to no stress on your liver and i dont know of any ph that stresses your kidney. Sounds like your not too informed on what your taking. Plenty of ppl run these dhea based prohormones for 8-12weeks.

So u can continue on or bridge into something else just make sure you have Clomid or nolva for pct

I still have 11 weeks of cutting, if I continue taking 1-Andro and 4-Andro during this duration it'll be a total of 17 weeks straight on prohormones (Already been taking them for 6 weeks and still have 11 weeks to go). I am just paranoid to end up in hospital with liver failure or something.. I am taking liver support atm and might double up on the dosage in the later weeks

Or I can probably drop one or the other ph and continue with only one of them to preserve muscle during a cut, that way I can reduce the stress on my liver. Would you drop 1-andro or 4-andro for the purpose I am taking them for (cutting)?

 

[mysterious_7]

I second that. DHEA derivatives are super mild. If it were me i would just do pct and maintain for a month, even continue cutting, up protein and lower carbs even more. Get on some creatine too. You might gain water weight but the second you stop and jump back on cycle, you'll piss most of it out and probably look even more shredded than before.

If DHEA derivatives are super mild why would you stop taking them and maintain for a month if you were me? should I just stay on them for 11 more weeks and just continue cutting before summer?

My protein intake is 50% of my total daily cals, usually around 280-300g per day. Fat is not more than 60g a day and carbs fill whatever is left over to make up my cals for the day. I only have carbs for breakfast, pre-workout meal and post-workout meal, I train at 5pm everyday. I think my diet is in check but I am just paranoid I'll still lose muscle if I get off the ph while cutting on a calorie deficit

 

[The_Old_Guy]

How much muscle do you think you're going to lose? Good lord, I went through Ranger School, eating 1 MRE a day, and didn't lose *that* much. If you are not new to training, IMO, forget the idea of not losing *anything* during a cut. Do the damn cut at whatever deficit nets you 1-2lbs a week, lose a rep or two, and then start adding mass again after reaching your 12%. From what I've heard, even Pro IFBB guys on 5 grams a week, lose some during contest prep. "Mild" or not, if you don't earn a living with your physique, I'd just stick to an 8 week cycle and then PCT for 4-6.... And are you also using a caliper or at least a tape measure for body comp measurements? All I saw is you going by scale weight and "looks". You could also save some money by dropping your protein intake if you want, IMO.

 

[cheeky1]

8 weeks of 1-andro & 4-andro
...then...
8 weeks of ostarine + pct of your choice + DS Lean Extreme
...then if you want to keep cycling to maintain that cut...
8 weeks of epiandro @ 200 - 300 - 400mg/day - drinks lots of water at 400mg

Dermacrine is also very handy, you could use it with osta & cycle off the hydroxyelite.

 

[muscleless]

Like i said, if it were me. Its just personal preference, i don't like cycles of anything longer than six weeks usually.

With cutting, muscle loss is pretty much inevitable to some degree. Have you considered different fat burners? Non stim stuff like Lecheek Hyper T2 or PES T2? Their non stim thermogenics and they have worked wonders for me.

 

[whey2buff]

You have alot of muscle to be gained, before you do any thing I would cycle off and stay natural for a while

 

[DonnieM]

If you still have some ph left, continue 2 more weeks, then run Osta+Arimistane for 8 weeks, then full pct. Also maybe lower your goal bf? Im sure you will look great at 15% or sum.

 

[kboxer7]

I'd second a vote for Osta. It's engineered specifically to prevent muscle waste.

Plus won't be hard on liver enzymes (which 1/4 andros do raise despite being non-methys), and not as bad on lipids.

 

[The Yolkster]

Limit your cycle to 8 weeks, there's no point in shutting down your body that hard just to lose fat in my opinion. You can always hop on again.

 

[cheeky1]

We see muscle gains off cycle using products like SARMs, paying attention to what the body is doing & modifying diet & supplement intake to suit the goal.
It's so easy these days, 4 - 8 week cycles with low hepatotoxicity, easy estrogen modulation/control and easily maintainable gains. No more wet bloat, carb load & then weeks of sweats & yoyo dieting.
As the above posters said, osta will be your friend, use it as the foundation & build your supps regime around that :yup:
+ bcaas, zma & some mad kettlebell sessions!!

 

[CorpKiller]

How much muscle do you think you're going to lose? Good lord, I went through Ranger School, eating 1 MRE a day, and didn't lose *that* much. If you are not new to training, IMO, forget the idea of not losing *anything* during a cut. Do the damn cut at whatever deficit nets you 1-2lbs a week, lose a rep or two, and then start adding mass again after reaching your 12%. From what I've heard, even Pro IFBB guys on 5 grams a week, lose some during contest prep. "Mild" or not, if you don't earn a living with your physique, I'd just stick to an 8 week cycle and then PCT for 4-6.... And are you also using a caliper or at least a tape measure for body comp measurements? All I saw is you going by scale weight and "looks". You could also save some money by dropping your protein intake if you want, IMO.

This. Ranger knows.