LGD+S4 Liquid Stack

[Vioros]

Hey Guys ,
Winter is near and I am planning my next cycle. As you you read in the title i thought about a s4/lgd Stack. I Made good experiences With lgd only But want something more now. My goal is putting on 2-4 kg of lean muscle gains wich could be kept afterwards.

LGD 5\8\10\10\12\12\15\15
S4 50\50\60\60\70\70

(s4 dosage depends on my tolerance)

Otc im Considering ar1macare pro (is otc necesarry)
For ptc im Not sure if super pct or chlomid any recommandations there would be good.

So any recommandations for this cycle.? Should i better Run a prohormon? Wich pct is the Best?
If everything is going well i will Start in November maybe a log will follow.

 

[CJNator]

You need a SERM like clomid or torem. Are you aware of S4's side effects?

 

[Vioros]

So you would just Run clomi during pct? Is this enough? In wich dosage would you recommend it? Yeah i am awake of the Vision problems. However it is the only other sarm i really like when it comes to stregth gains

 

[CJNator]

Well maybe torem would be better but I'm not an expert in SERMs, to add you can use Super Pct and lj100 Hastur can help

 

[Vioros]

Thanks for the fast answer Do you think otc is necessary?

 

[yates84]

You need a serm for pct, everything else is secondary.

 

[Vioros]

You need a serm for pct, everything else is secondary.

Which serm Do you recommend? And which dosage

 

[yates84]

Which serm Do you recommend? And which dosage

Clomid has always worked for me, 50/50/25/25

 

[Wreckosaurus]

What were your results with lgd?

 

[Vioros]

Increased stregth 10kg in Main stats min. And 2 to 3 kg of lean muscles. Wich i could easily kein afterwards

 

[Hastur]

Well maybe torem would be better but I'm not an expert in SERMs, to add you can use Super Pct and lj100 Hastur can help

Definitely use a SERM, my personal policy is "No SERM, no Cycle." Like yate84 said, everything else is secondary. His recommendation of Clomid is spot on. I personally use Toremifene, but at the end of the day what SERM you use is just personal preference. The important thing is that you have one on hand, and that you use it at adequate dosages.

 

[sanmarino]

Completely agree with Hatur. I also never start a cycle - even a SARM cycle - without having a SERM and an AI (even you are not going to need them).

The LGD + S-4 stack will blast you away, trust me. The strenght - especially in higher dosage range - is enormous. But the side effects of S-4 (e.g. night-blindness) won't be optimal during winter time. I can remember myself (that was Ostarine + S-4), that driving a car was very unconfortable. Even walking without light resulted in acting like everything was normal (when I was walking with people) while you were trippin about the completely darkness haha

Sounds funny, but it wasn't. Me personally won't use S-4 again during wintertime. Even in summer the contrasts between very bright (outside) and dimmed (inside, tunnel, underpass) are strong enough. Your eyes need longer to adapt to the situation.

I used >50mg/ed of S-4. Split up in four times a day resulted in less side effects; means: I could run S-4 longer with the same amount before getting harsh side effects in comparison with two doses per day.

I'm assuming that the body has to fight harder with the metabolites of S-4 the higher the amount of one dosage is. I also made a test with 1x 50mg and this resulted in the absolutely hardest side effects I received from S-4. Won't repeat the test.

 

[Vioros]

Thanks for all your answers, i first thought of spliting s4 in 2 doses a 25mg in the morning and pre-workout. If I understand you right even splitting the dose up to 4 would be even better. I think I will run ar1macare pro during cycle and then use chlomid for pct as recommended by Yates.
What kind of gains can I expect from this stack? Could you keep strength and mass afterwards? I will run the 5 day on 2 days off method. ( what is your opinion about this?) sanmarino

I read a lot of great threads of you . all of them were extremely helpful and I would be really happy if you could give more recommendations on how to run this stacks

 

[sanmarino]

You are welcome.
Yes, for me personally four times a day (with 3-4h between the intake) you will have a daily constant level instead of taking it only two times a day. Especially when you are taking S-4 only, that would be an important point.

If you want to run a SERM, I would recommend a second generation SERM like Raloxifene or Toremifene. They don't work that strong like the fist generation SERM (Clomid, Tamox) but they also have way less side effects. I personally only used a SERM like Tamox only once: after a heavy cycle with LGD + S-4 + MK-677 and GW.

You can expect lean gains through the enormous increase of strenght. Sill be cautious: don't bump up the weight too fast, better work slowlier instead of breaking your leg or back

I kept mostly of the strenght afterwards (until I went for holidays). Now I'm heading back to the values reached with LGD and S-4.
5on-2off can be helpful for the eyes. It's a good method. I also tested the 7on-method. Worked also well. It's up to you how you are going to handle this.

Thank you, I appreciate that.

 

[Vioros]

Okay I will go with clomid or torem. Any suggestions about the dosage of torem? sanmarino
Furthermore does the 5 on 2 off method significantly decrease the effect of s4? If you had to. Which otc product would you use?

 

[sanmarino]

You won't need the same dosage of Toremifene as on a AAS PCT. 60mg/ed (or if 25mg tabs -> 50mg/ed) for four weeks should be enough.
No, the 5on-2off does not significantly decrease the effect. You are not running S-4 only, you have a basis substance (in your case LGD).

OCT Product for PCT? I'm using PCT Complete by Brawn. I only used for heavy cycles SERM for the rest I used the named product. If you mean OCT product during cycle, I can recommend something with TUDCA. OL UK has a TUDCA product, me personally am using Damage Control by LGI. But I have also the TUDCA from OL UK, but never had to use it.

 

[Vioros]

sanmarino I read at evolutionary and the other Dylan gemelli homepage, that s4 should be kept constant during first two weeks at 50 mg. Because of the sides. I finished my first week with 4mg lgd and 50mg s4, so far a slight increase of energy. Tomorrow I up the dose of lgd to 8 mg. And I'm considering upping s4 to 60 mg aswell. What are your thoughts about it?

 

[sanmarino]

Despite of the SARM-rule "more means not better", S-4 has the opposite meaning. Therefore: the higher the dosage will be, the higher the effects (and of course side effects).

My S-4 schedule looks as follows: ("week" means only five days and free weekends; dosage intake was every 3-4 hours; the first time I used S-4 I only split up to two times per day, now I'm a bit cleverer and split up to four times a day)

Week 1: 30mg/ed (2x15mg/ed)
Week 2: 40mg/ed (4x10mg/ed)
Week 3: 50mg/ed (4x12.5mg/ed)
Week 4: 50mg/ed (4x12.5mg/ed)
Week 5: 60mg/ed (4x15mg/ed)
Week 6 (only for two days 70mg/ed and back to 60mg/ed)

My perfect spot is somewhere in the range of 50-60mg/ed. Some other users think 40mg/ed is enough, others don't stop until they reached 80mg/ed. It's very individually.
While on SARM cycle, I used the S-4 sometimes as a booster: that means, I took on that day not four intakes, but three. Example: 50mg/ed. Morning: 12.5mg / PWO: 25mg / Evening: 12.5mg

I personally felt much more power while taking it two hours before the training. A booster was not needed anymore.
As I expected, the vision side effects were harsher, the higher the dosage per intake is. Obviously, the human body has its struggle with reducing the metabolites of S-4. Smaller intakes but with higher frequency delay the side effects. The half life of the metabolites must be long enough to generate a "pool".

I always recommend to start with a lower dosage, with EVERY subtance.

I also used 8mg/ed LGD and up to 60mg/ed S-4 and the power was enormous, trust me. You have to take care for you joints and tendons. I forced myself only to increasy slightly the weights. That's also maybe why I never had an accident in the gym