Questions about future cycle

Chrisko

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I have several halodrol and furuza clone bottles which are expired but were stored properly out of direct sunlight and in a cabinet. I have ran three previous cycles of halodrol and loved the results. I have never ran furuza and am not considering running it by itself since I am not looking for strictly a cutting cycle. If anything it would be a bulk or recomp.

I also just recently bought a **** load Sarms. 3 bottles of the 360 count osta from OL and two bottles of lgd 90 count. I also bought a bunch of eliminate, super pct, arimicare, and epic. Trying to figure out what to run and am really being put off by the dermicrine as a test base due to possible hair shedding.

Was advised to run viron from a forum member but I haven't really noticed a difference in my quality of life. I am looking to run maybe a couple more cycles before possibly going on trt in a couple of years if need be.

I have been looking in the forums for several weeks now and that was one of the reasons why I stocked up on the Sarms. Especially with all the talk of a ban.

I am finding a lot of conflicting information on the forums and online with Sarms in general and how to set it up. I have already read Yates write up on the forum.

Any suggestions?
 
rascal14

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I'm not sure I understand your question. Are you asking for us to layout a cycle for you?
 
Chrisko

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I'm not sure I understand your question. Are you asking for us to layout a cycle for you?
No. I am looking for possibly more information on Sarms to make a better decision on what cycle to run given what I have stock piled.

For instance there are some that say that lgd and osta compete for the same receptors and it would be a waste to run a cycle like that but that it is a great recomp lean bulk cycle.

Some say that an AI is needed such as arimistane but others do not.

Some say take a serm for three weeks others say a full pct is necessary.

I should have been more specific.
 
rascal14

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Okay.. Anytime you are messing with your hormones there is a chance you could have Estrogen issues so always have Exemestane on hand in case you start getting symptoms.

You can use Arimistane from the start if you'd like, I'm not very convinced that it does hardly anything for Estrogen though.

As far as PCT I would go ahead and do a full four weeks of either Nolva at 20/20/10/10 or Clomid at 50/50/25/25.

I can't comment on the LGD and Ostarine competing for the same receptors.
 
Chrisko

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Okay.. Anytime you are messing with your hormones there is a chance you could have Estrogen issues so always have Exemestane on hand in case you start getting symptoms.

You can use Arimistane from the start if you'd like, I'm not very convinced that it does hardly anything for Estrogen though.

As far as PCT I would go ahead and do a full four weeks of either Nolva at 20/20/10/10 or Clomid at 50/50/25/25.

I can't comment on the LGD and Ostarine competing for the same receptors.
I am always cautious and I would run support supps but do you think it is necessary to run them a week or two prior to your actual cycle like you would preload on other cycles?

See, the arimistane thing confuses me. Many say that it would be all you need. It has also been stated that it takes some time for estrogen to build up and don't recommend taking at the start, and if at all, it would be two weeks into the run. However a typical full pct is usually a four week serm with an AI ran at least two weeks past with a taper.
 
rascal14

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I've never pre loaded cycle support and it is not necessary for a SARM only cycle.

There's no need to run an AI until you start seeing estrogen sides if you see any at all. Since they can not aromatize then you risk crushing your estrogen.

I see a lot of different stuff about running an AI in PCT, but I think Exemestane tapered running two weeks after the SERM is probably a good idea.
 
Driven2lift

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Which compounds are you trying to get into your first run?

You could save the furaza and run halo/osta
At 50-75/15-20

+ on cycle supports and an OTC AI

The RC AI was suggested as a "just in case" they can be lifesavers to have on hand ready to go.
 
BRUstrong

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It's a good idea to pre-load Hawthorn Berry if you're taking it for BP. I believe it can cause an acute spike in BP before it's lowering effects kick in. It is bothersome that you say you want to run a couple more cycles before possibly going on trt in a few years for the rest of your life. Have you been diagnosed with low T already? Are you being treated? Do you just plan to run your hormones into the ground by doing reckless cycles and have TRT as a fallback? I'm just confused
 
thatguy1234

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It's a good idea to pre-load Hawthorn Berry if you're taking it for BP. I believe it can cause an acute spike in BP before it's lowering effects kick in. It is bothersome that you say you want to run a couple more cycles before possibly going on trt in a few years for the rest of your life. Have you been diagnosed with low T already? Are you being treated? Do you just plan to run your hormones into the ground by doing reckless cycles and have TRT as a fallback? I'm just confused
yea i'm also confused by that little tidbit. TRT is something i would really love to avoid in life unless i get really old and need it...
 
Chrisko

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Which compounds are you trying to get into your first run?

You could save the furaza and run halo/osta
At 50-75/15-20

+ on cycle supports and an OTC AI

The RC AI was suggested as a "just in case" they can be lifesavers to have on hand ready to go.
It would not be my first run, I have ran halodrol three previous times.
 
Chrisko

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I have gotten my test levels checked several times in the past years and they have been consistently going down over the years. It is now sitting around the 420's. Considering that your test levels continue to drop over the course of your life I am sure it will drop even further as I get older. So if they drop below the recommended levels and I have still continue to have symptoms of low t then I would want to be on trt as I do not want to have a ****tier quality of life. It has nothing to do with being reckless. No one said anything about running reckless cycles.
 
BRUstrong

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I have gotten my test levels checked several times in the past years and they have been consistently going down over the years. It is now sitting around the 420's. Considering that your test levels continue to drop over the course of your life I am sure it will drop even further as I get older. So if they drop below the recommended levels and I have still continue to have symptoms of low t then I would want to be on trt as I do not want to have a ****tier quality of life. It has nothing to do with being reckless. No one said anything about running reckless cycles.
No, but you certainly implied it in your first post. How old are you
 
Chrisko

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No, but you certainly implied it in your first post. How old are you
In no way did I imply it in my first post. It looks like you are assuming I did. If you have to reread it, then I suggest you do. I am just trying to gain as much information, insight, and experience from others that have used such compounds.
 
Driven2lift

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I'm sorry brother i didn't mean your "first ever" run just the first cycle to be built out of this stash.

How high did you run halo last time?
I would imitate that run but stack on osta this time,
 
BRUstrong

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In no way did I imply it in my first post. It looks like you are assuming I did. If you have to reread it, then I suggest you do. I am just trying to gain as much information, insight, and experience from others that have used such compounds.
No, I made an inference on your implication. What was your PCT on your first cycles?
 
Chrisko

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I'm sorry brother i didn't mean your "first ever" run just the first cycle to be built out of this stash.

How high did you run halo last time?
I would imitate that run but stack on osta this time,
My last cycle was
halodrol 50/50/75/75/75
Tudca
Anabolic innovations cycle support

My pct was
nolva 20/20/10/10
Daa 3G/3G/3G/3G
Original erase 0/0/3/2/2/1
Tudca
Cycle support
Creatine

I also always run my staples whether I am on or off cycle:

Orange triad multis
Fish oil
CLA
Vitamin D 2000iu
Bcaa
Whey
Casein
 
Driven2lift

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My last cycle was
halodrol 50/50/75/75/75
Tudca
Anabolic innovations cycle support

My pct was
nolva 20/20/10/10
Daa 3G/3G/3G/3G
Original erase 0/0/3/2/2/1
Tudca
Cycle support
Creatine

I also always run my staples whether I am on or off cycle:

Orange triad multis
Fish oil
CLA
Vitamin D 2000iu
Bcaa
Whey
Casein
Perfect.
You could run halo 6 weeks at 75 and osta at 20 on top, might be a solid choice.

I'll tag in some other guys for votes on this Matthew1237 Hyde booneman77
 
Chrisko

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Being that am cautious about all this, do you think I should run osta solo first? I have never ran osta before and not too sure how I will respond. If it is anything like most users it would be great. My elbows are crushing me right now and have been for a while. Hoping that the osta can alleviate some of the pain.
 
Chrisko

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I also was thinking of gw for that reason but when I heard it could possibly cause cancer I pretty much said **** that.
 
booneman77

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Personally, I thought osta was a total bust. Running it with a "better" compound would be a complete waste IMO as it'll simply be overshadowed and youd just be wasting money and potentially dealing with unnecessary sides for littel to no additoinal benefit.

If you were to run osta, I would run it solo first as that will give you an idea of how it treats you, as well as allow it the best chance to show its benefits (if there are any for you, for me it was only sides and muscle retention, no gains or fat loss).

Running halo by itself is a plenty solid cycle. If you were to stack, You probably could stack the furaza with it and have a pretty insane cuttin/leaning cycle.
 
Chrisko

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Can anyone else who may have experienced them let me know of any of the bad side effects of osta or lgd?
I know of lethargy and am not liking it due to me working midnights but I do know that it may be user defendant.

Some have experience lethargy on halo but I never did. Hoping these Sarms will treat me the same way if I decide to use them.

The shin and back pumps sucked on halo even while using taurine. Are these pumps similar on Sarms?
 
Chrisko

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Personally, I thought osta was a total bust. Running it with a "better" compound would be a complete waste IMO as it'll simply be overshadowed and youd just be wasting money and potentially dealing with unnecessary sides for littel to no additoinal benefit.

If you were to run osta, I would run it solo first as that will give you an idea of how it treats you, as well as allow it the best chance to show its benefits (if there are any for you, for me it was only sides and muscle retention, no gains or fat loss).

Running halo by itself is a plenty solid cycle. If you were to stack, You probably could stack the furaza with it and have a pretty insane cuttin/leaning cycle.
Thank you for your input. Trying to take all of this in. You experience any sides? Did you respond well to other Sarms if you have taken them?
 
BRUstrong

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I've run osta in between cycles of tren and trest. It's pretty mild and you won't see a whole lot in terms of effects. A lot of people like to use it on a cut to help with strength and endurance. I don't think it's beneficial if you are bulking. It will help your joints because of the estro increase. I'd start without an AI and see how bad the sides become. Some don't get estro sides, but some bloat on osta. I run it with formestane, but unless you stocked up before the ban, that's not an option. Inhibit-E will be fine. You don't need pharma strength for osta. Best part is endurance and recovery, IMO
 
Chrisko

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I've run osta in between cycles of tren and trest. It's pretty mild and you won't see a whole lot in terms of effects. A lot of people like to use it on a cut to help with strength and endurance. I don't think it's beneficial if you are bulking. It will help your joints because of the estro increase. I'd start without an AI and see how bad the sides become. Some don't get estro sides, but some bloat on osta. I run it with formestane, but unless you stocked up before the ban, that's not an option. Inhibit-E will be fine. You don't need pharma strength for osta. Best part is endurance and recovery, IMO
Thank you. Yeah, formestane is not an option at this point. I have heard of the dermicrine route but afraid of shedding. I would like to keep what little I have left. Haha.
 
BRUstrong

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Thank you. Yeah, formestane is not an option at this point. I have heard of the dermicrine route but afraid of shedding. I would like to keep what little I have left. Haha.
Haha, yea, unless lethargy becomes an issue for you, don't bother with the dermacrine. It was never an issue for me.
 
booneman77

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Thank you for your input. Trying to take all of this in. You experience any sides? Did you respond well to other Sarms if you have taken them?
I was lethargic and miserable the last 4 weeks out of 8. I e never had any issue with lethargy on any other cycle (did in pct after Tren but that was a nasty pct anyways). I actually bridged the osta cycle into epi/Tren and felt waaayyyyy better on that than any point on osta.

Haven't run any of the other suppressive sarms so I can't compare. I did run cardarine for awhile but it made me miserable too as it just didn't go with my normal lower carb diet style. Constant low blood sugar sides.
 
Hyde

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Ostarine, or LGD, has a higher affinity for the AR than your endogenous test. You start taking Osta and where does your test park when the Osta takes its parking spot? Hangs out in the blood til Mrs. Aromatase walks by w/ her sweet ass asking if he'd like to come over to her place for the evening. And that is how Estradiol is born lol. Definitely need to keep an AI like Exem on hand with Osta, as your test WILL be aromatizing until you've been on it long enough that natty production becomes fully suppressed. But that doesn't happen extremely quickly; lethargy won't usually hit from Osta til at least wk 3 as your test levels begin to plummet.

LGD suppresses much faster and doesn't seem like an AI is necessary. It also doesn't aromatize but since natty test falls off so fast it's not as big a concern as Osta. But it doesn't raise estro or prolactin significantly. So if you start getting gyno, there's no way to control it - you have to just cease use.

Osta I can run with an AI no problem; LGD bugged my gyno within 4 days and Exem made zero difference so I dropped it. Even Nolva/Ralox is useless as the LGD isn't acting on estro receptors in breast tissue at all. If you have pre-existing gyno I would be wary. If not you're prob not sensitive and are g2g on LGD.

Anything suppressive that isn't test or trest or a sh*tload of mast/epi-androsterone/4-dhea needs to be run over one of those compounds if lethargy is to be avoided. Only other way to avoid lethargy is simply limiting duration of run to not much longer after you start shutting down hard. Basically what you were doing with the Halo. So the Osta can stack right on for a bulk w/ the Halo but more anabolics means likely even faster shutdown and greater onset of lethargy. The same would be accomplished by an even larger dose of Halo, but I'd use your old dose of Halo and add 20mg of Osta or 4-8mg LGD e/d over adding another 25mg of Halo.

Def have Exem on hand if you use the Osta, but you should have it anyway if you're planning a cycle. And always full PCT. Why wouldn't you?
 
NoAddedHmones

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Ostarine, or LGD, has a higher affinity for the AR than your endogenous test. You start taking Osta and where does your test park when the Osta takes its parking spot? Hangs out in the blood til Mrs. Aromatase walks by w/ her sweet ass asking if he'd like to come over to her place for the evening. And that is how Estradiol is born lol. Definitely need to keep an AI like Exem on hand with Osta, as your test WILL be aromatizing until you've been on it long enough that natty production becomes fully suppressed. But that doesn't happen extremely quickly; lethargy won't usually hit from Osta til at least wk 3 as your test levels begin to plummet.

LGD suppresses much faster and doesn't seem like an AI is necessary. It also doesn't aromatize but since natty test falls off so fast it's not as big a concern as Osta. But it doesn't raise estro or prolactin significantly. So if you start getting gyno, there's no way to control it - you have to just cease use.

Osta I can run with an AI no problem; LGD bugged my gyno within 4 days and Exem made zero difference so I dropped it. Even Nolva/Ralox is useless as the LGD isn't acting on estro receptors in breast tissue at all. If you have pre-existing gyno I would be wary. If not you're prob not sensitive and are g2g on LGD.

Anything suppressive that isn't test or trest or a sh*tload of mast/epi-androsterone/4-dhea needs to be run over one of those compounds if lethargy is to be avoided. Only other way to avoid lethargy is simply limiting duration of run to not much longer after you start shutting down hard. Basically what you were doing with the Halo. So the Osta can stack right on for a bulk w/ the Halo but more anabolics means likely even faster shutdown and greater onset of lethargy. The same would be accomplished by an even larger dose of Halo, but I'd use your old dose of Halo and add 20mg of Osta or 4-8mg LGD e/d over adding another 25mg of Halo.

Def have Exem on hand if you use the Osta, but you should have it anyway if you're planning a cycle. And always full PCT. Why wouldn't you?
I don't think its a matter that Osta is taking up all the receptor space lol, its take grams of gear to do that IIRC(even then its questionable). My thoughts and research into why possible estro sides occur is due to osta's effect of significantly lowering SHBG. Which will result in greater conversion of test to estrogen.
 
Hyde

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I don't think its a matter that Osta is taking up all the receptor space lol, its take grams of gear to do that IIRC(even then its questionable). My thoughts and research into why possible estro sides occur is due to osta's effect of significantly lowering SHBG. Which will result in greater conversion of test to estrogen.
Why are you laughing out loud? It's a fact Osta has a much higher affinity for the AR, it will edge out test overall. It's not a matter of blocking off test; this is the same reason why the notion that SARMs competing for the AR makes them worthless to stack is bogus - and that's not what I'm implying.

And in all honesty it's irrelevant - what is relevant is that serum estradiol increases on Ostarine, and an AI does correct the issue. I've found it to be true across several brands and cycles of Ostarine. Including Olympus Labs. And many will 2nd this. Are we agreed in that?
 
NoAddedHmones

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Why are you laughing out loud? It's a fact Osta has a much higher affinity for the AR, it will edge out test overall. It's not a matter of blocking off test; this is the same reason why the notion that SARMs competing for the AR makes them worthless to stack is bogus - and that's not what I'm implying.

And in all honesty it's irrelevant - what is relevant is that serum estradiol increases on Ostarine, and an AI does correct the issue. I've found it to be true across several brands and cycles of Ostarine. Including Olympus Labs. And many will 2nd this. Are we agreed in that?
Sorry about the lol, just a habbit. Wasnt directed at your statement. We are 100% in agreement, i have experienced the estro sides first hand. And yep, even an otc ai like inhibit E tames it, hence why my advice and recommendations for osta runs always suggest an AI.
 
Chrisko

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Ostarine, or LGD, has a higher affinity for the AR than your endogenous test. You start taking Osta and where does your test park when the Osta takes its parking spot? Hangs out in the blood til Mrs. Aromatase walks by w/ her sweet ass asking if he'd like to come over to her place for the evening. And that is how Estradiol is born lol. Definitely need to keep an AI like Exem on hand with Osta, as your test WILL be aromatizing until you've been on it long enough that natty production becomes fully suppressed. But that doesn't happen extremely quickly; lethargy won't usually hit from Osta til at least wk 3 as your test levels begin to plummet.

LGD suppresses much faster and doesn't seem like an AI is necessary. It also doesn't aromatize but since natty test falls off so fast it's not as big a concern as Osta. But it doesn't raise estro or prolactin significantly. So if you start getting gyno, there's no way to control it - you have to just cease use.

Osta I can run with an AI no problem; LGD bugged my gyno within 4 days and Exem made zero difference so I dropped it. Even Nolva/Ralox is useless as the LGD isn't acting on estro receptors in breast tissue at all. If you have pre-existing gyno I would be wary. If not you're prob not sensitive and are g2g on LGD.

Anything suppressive that isn't test or trest or a sh*tload of mast/epi-androsterone/4-dhea needs to be run over one of those compounds if lethargy is to be avoided. Only other way to avoid lethargy is simply limiting duration of run to not much longer after you start shutting down hard. Basically what you were doing with the Halo. So the Osta can stack right on for a bulk w/ the Halo but more anabolics means likely even faster shutdown and greater onset of lethargy. The same would be accomplished by an even larger dose of Halo, but I'd use your old dose of Halo and add 20mg of Osta or 4-8mg LGD e/d over adding another 25mg of Halo.

Def have Exem on hand if you use the Osta, but you should have it anyway if you're planning a cycle. And always full PCT. Why wouldn't you?
Thank you for the response but I am little confused about the lgd part of your post. Are you saying that no matter if you have an AI and using it with lgd and develop symptoms of gyno you will need to drop the compound completed because an AI will not help at all? I thought that was the whole point of an AI. To control the conversion of test to estro.

Also I had some nipple itching about 6 to 8 months after my second run of halo and it concerns me a lot now. There was no growth or lump but my left nipple constantly itched. It would now definitely be a concern on future sarm run.

The full Pct reference was for the length of it. I will always run a pct but some have said that a three week pct would suffice such as 50/25/25 of clomid it 20/10/10 of nolva. My choice of serm would most likely always be nolva. I seem to have recovered fine from it previously with bloods however my test levels seem to always be in the mid to low 4's. I would consider a full pct as a 20/20/10/10 nolva run with various support supps.

The estro **** is really starting to bum me out.
 
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Sorry about the lol, just a habbit. Wasnt directed at your statement. We are 100% in agreement, i have experienced the estro sides first hand. And yep, even an otc ai like inhibit E tames it, hence why my advice and recommendations for osta runs always suggest an AI.
Are you saying an OTC AI such as inhibit E or the original erase formula(arimistane) would suffice? I ran it previously in my pct's and recovered fine.
 
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If you're previous pct worked well after that 6wk halo cycle use it again as a template. Whether there is 3 or 4 wks of Nolva and dosage is picking nits over personal preference really. If it works for you it works. But do have a bottle of exem on hand.

And yes there isn't a lot of explanation for why some people like myself get bugged by LGD. If you start having pain/itching/sensitivity on it drop it. And run exem for a day or two to bring your estro down while the nipples are sensitive. This will speed relief and help prevent growth in that 2-3 day transition. And I keep recommending exem as your backup rc AI of choice because its suicidal and won't cause rebound, allowing for sporadic dosing safely like I'm suggesting. Same for if you needed it in pct if you started getting itchy nips. It's the most convenient AI to spot dose on a whim (like when your nips light up randomly).
 
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If you're previous pct worked well after that 6wk halo cycle use it again as a template. Whether there is 3 or 4 wks of Nolva and dosage is picking nits over personal preference really. If it works for you it works. But do have a bottle of exem on hand.

And yes there isn't a lot of explanation for why some people like myself get bugged by LGD. If you start having pain/itching/sensitivity on it drop it. And run exem for a day or two to bring your estro down while the nipples are sensitive. This will speed relief and help prevent growth in that 2-3 day transition. And I keep recommending exem as your backup rc AI of choice because its suicidal and won't cause rebound, allowing for sporadic dosing safely like I'm suggesting. Same for if you needed it in pct if you started getting itchy nips. It's the most convenient AI to spot dose on a whim (like when your nips light up randomly).
What would be a typical dose? Is there such a thing? I have never used it before. I have seen people run it but it is on wet compounds. I base my cycle runs on William llewellyn's Anabolics 10th edition. It doesn't even mention it in runs. He suggests nolva as estrogen support and at the most recommends arimidex.
 
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Arimidex in my opinion IS the better option for on cycle use, but exem is the better for sporadic/pct usage. 6.25mg, 12.5mg, and 25mg/ day are the doses. If I'm on M1T I'm taking 2 doses of 12.5mg a day 12 hours apart. If I'm on 25mg Osta it would be 12.5mg every other day. You could also use the lowest arimidex dosing scheme consistently if you notice high estro sides on Ostarine and wish to use that. I don't put stock in any otc AIs except Formestane. Only one that actually ever made a difference for me. Arimistane, like Erase, is just good for keeping dry and hard. E2 management it doesn't cut it for me.
 

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