Anabolics and Night Shift

[Jebrook]

I recently went back to nights due to attrition at work. I work 12 hour shifts on a four/four off rotation. On the beginning of off days I typically stay up 20+ hours to switch back to normal and be with the family.

Needless to say this is going to throw a wrinkle in my bulking plans this winter. I had planned two bulking cycles of ph/ds between now and next spring. I am trying to decide whether or not to run them or if this would in effect be "pissing in the wind"

Typically when I go overnight I lose 10-15 lbs over a year, but I do get lean and lose fat as well. I know it would aid in muscle preservation, but would I be able to add decent lbs? Does anyone think the added stress and fluctuation of natural hormone levels due to upset Circadian rhythms could make a health concern. Too much hormonal and physiological stress?

I would welcome any input on what you guys think about running a cycle under these conditions. Please feel free to share anything relevant experience wise or health wise that should be considered. Thanks guys!

 

[goodvibes]

Been on night shift for 8 yrs straight and I love it. It's not really the hours for me but the consistency. I can't change shifts or sleeping times because it ruins my whole day and mood. I'd give you advice but your situation and 12hr shifts is kind of unique

 

[goodvibes]

I know you want to be with family but staying up 20 hrs straight on your off day will be the killer. I'd find another way to schedule everything that accomodates your rest and family.

 

[Jebrook]

I know you want to be with family but staying up 20 hrs straight on your off day will be the killer. I'd find another way to schedule everything that accomodates your rest and family.

Lol. Believe me I'd love to. When I was single and did this I stayed very consistent. Also worked out a lot more. Jogging in the middle of the night is awesome. Very relaxing and peaceful. Here is the kicker. My wife works the same shift except opposite days. Switching back is a necessity due to young children in school and what not. Birth control however is not a problem because we will rarely ever see each other. Lol. I'm all ears on any suggestions. So you've cycled successfully while working overnight but tried to limit the back and forth switching of sleep patterns?

 

[Jebrook]

One thing that can work for me is to get off at 8pm on last day and sleep till noon then try to go to bed by 10 pm.

 

[Jebrook]

Generally on first day of a rotation I am up by 7 or 8am then squeeze in a 2-3 hour nap until I go in at 8 pm.

 

[goodvibes]

I never switch sleeping patterns man. I sleep at 3am wake up at 11am or 12noon. I have a newborn so if she wakes up around 8-12am I feed her and put her back to sleep then I go back to nap a few more hrs

Before she was born I was sleeping like clockwork. On days I have to wake up early I go as far as taking a full day off from work. I go through lengths to make sure I'm not stressed

 

[Jebrook]

Any supplements you use specifically to help with sleeping, cortisol, or anything else? I supplement with melatonin and Vit D for sure when on nights. Anything else beneficial?

 

[goodvibes]

MK677 works wonders for me right now. I stopped all sleep aids but for the past 6 yrs I was on doxylamine succinate 12.5mg sometimes stacked with zma.

If it helps do the melatonin with MK it's pretty good too. For Cort control I just run vitc 1g, 2-3x/day. I don't think I need any Cort control though. My lifestyle has a low stress level. I actually turned down a lot of other jobs in exchange for a lower stress type of life.

 

[Jebrook]

MK677 works wonders for me right now. I stopped all sleep aids but for the past 6 yrs I was on doxylamine succinate 12.5mg sometimes stacked with zma.

If it helps do the melatonin with MK it's pretty good too. For Cort control I just run vitc 1g, 2-3x/day. I don't think I need any Cort control though. My lifestyle has a low stress level. I actually turned down a lot of other jobs in exchange for a lower stress type of life.

Wish mine was low stress, lol. I'm a little worried about stress level, exhaustion, and combining Anabolics on top of it. I think I could eat and sleep consistently enough to make gains. I just worry that stress and fluctuations might lead to blood pressure and hypertension problems.

 

[goodvibes]

Wish mine was low stress, lol. I'm a little worried about stress level, exhaustion, and combining Anabolics on top of it. I think I could eat and sleep consistently enough to make gains. I just worry that stress and fluctuations might lead to blood pressure and hypertension problems.

You work in the medical field?

 

[Danes]

Jebrook Keep up the good work
goodvibes, MK677 is a good REM sleep Booster and there is a study proving it but I do recommend to run MK677 longer than 2 months.(like many people run this) Actually the first months are most critical.now i am thinking of Insulin sensitivity decrease. After couple of months, insulin sensitivity increases

Some do use Huperzine A for Somatostatin Inhibition but honestly I dont think it is nessesary since it bypass the somatostatin barrier by interacting directly with GH receptors, thus producing GH release (something I wrote before in SARMs Thread)

 

[Jebrook]

Jebrook Keep up the good work
goodvibes, MK677 is a good REM sleep Booster and there is a study proving it but I do recommend to run MK677 longer than 2 months.(like many people run this) Actually the first months are most critical.now i am thinking of Insulin sensitivity decrease. After couple of months, insulin sensitivity increases

Some do use Huperzine A for Somatostatin Inhibition but honestly I dont think it is nessesary since it bypass the somatostatin barrier by interacting directly with GH receptors, thus producing GH release (something I wrote before in SARMs Thread)

Interesting. Danes what do you think about EGCG and MK677?

 

[Danes]

Interesting. Danes what do you think about EGCG and MK677?

You mean each one ? Or together ?

 

[Jebrook]

You mean each one ? Or together ?

500 mg EGCG in the morning and MK677 @ night to enhance the MK.

 

[Danes]

500 mg EGCG in the morning and MK677 @ night to enhance the MK.

To be honest, I have seen people dosing Huperzine A and EGCG in the morning and some in the night to enhance the MK but it is nothing than speculation. I have NOT seen any proof either

 

[Jebrook]

To be honest, I have seen people dosing Huperzine A and EGCG in the morning and some in the night to enhance the MK but it is nothing than speculation. I have NOT seen any proof either

What about for my general health while enduring this crazy schedule? Any thoughts?

 

[Danes]

What about for my general health while enduring this crazy schedule? Any thoughts?

I do have some
1. No smoke
2. No Parties or consuming much alcohol
3. Eating fruits and vegetables
4. Adding good doses of Omega rich in EPA and DHA
5. Adding adaptogens such as Ashwagandha(KSM66), Ajuga Turkestanica or Rhaponticum carthamoides. Those will help regulating stresshormone ++++

 

[Jebrook]

I do have some
1. No smoke•check
2. No Parties or consuming much alcohol•check
3. Eating fruits and vegetables•check
4. Adding good doses of Omega rich in EPA and DHA•check
5. Adding adaptogens such as Ashwagandha(KSM66), Ajuga Turkestanica or Rhaponticum carthamoides. Those will help regulating stresshormone ++++• will look into these some more

See above^

 

[Danes]

See above^

As you know, night shift has negative impact on your body but it vary from person to person. Some are ultra sensitive, some not.
A good adaptogens would be a good thing but if you are really concerned for your health then chancing the work/dropping anabolics would be your best bet
At the end of the day, it is your body and you need to listen to it.

 

[Danes]

See above^

Ashwagandha (KSM66) is cheaper than Leuzea/Rhaponticum and Ajuga T.(those two are difficult to find if you want good quality).in Russia, both are used for ecdysteroids source ! Both do contain different ecdysteroids and Ajuga Turkestanica has Turkesterone as main ecdysteroid

 

[goodvibes]

Nice information Danes! I do take ashwaganda (ksm66) and I noticed positive mood changes from it.

 

[T-Bone]

Didn't read all of the posts, but I read the first one. Jebrook, Is this a factory job. There is this place around here that pays pretty good and has good benefits. However, you have to work 12 hour alternating shifts. One week you work 6am to 6pm for something like 4 days, and the next week the opposite, 6pm to 6am. I could never do that....It would destroy me. I've got to have the same set schedule and working overnights is not natural either. It'll destroy your natural circadian rhythm.

I used to work overnights and I was all messed up because of it. Constantly tired and stressed out. I remember once I was at a stop light driving and for some reason in my mind I thought I was at a stop sign instead and just went through the intersection. No accident or anything but that's how screwed up it made me.

 

[Danes]

Nice information Danes! I do take ashwaganda (ksm66) and I noticed positive mood changes from it.

I do really enjoy it too
Allways been a fan of adaptogens and I allways enjoyed my Ecdysteroids run . Provides many health benefits + solid anabolic effect. But one thing is for sure, a good source is VERY expencive and it is really not cost effective at all.
Ecdysteroids got very bad reputation due to low quality and to low doses ! But if you really look at russian papers and their studies , it really works.
The main problem is the cost and making a solid Turkesterone+ecdysterone product containing 98% HPLC tested ecdysteroids at pretty high dose, one bottle would cost more than 100$ .

 

[Joedoubledose]

I think like Danes said the best you can do is eat as healthy as possible ., you might need to try and up calories to compensate for how long your awake , when you can get sleep try and get as much as you possibly can . Besides that you kinda just have to stick through it . The addition of mk-677 would help with recovery and sleep like said above, I can't think of any other supplement that would really be as impactful as mk in terms of helping your situation . Best of luck!

 

[Danes]

I think like Danes said the best you can do is eat as healthy as possible ., you might need to try and up calories to compensate for how long your awake , when you can get sleep try and get as much as you possibly can . Besides that you kinda just have to stick through it . The addition of mk-677 would help with recovery and sleep like said above, I can't think of any other supplement that would really be as impactful as mk in terms of helping your situation . Best of luck!

Solid advice. And thinking of changing the job would be a good thing. (I do know it could be difficult to find a new job).

 

[Jebrook]

Thanks for the responses guys. Unfortunately the overnight stints are a fact of the job. It is a long term career I'm not willing to change. I do enjoy it very much.
What I'm really looking for are opinions and anecdotes about cycling during this time. Anyone done so themselves? Anyone feel it would be too dangerous or risky with extreme precautions? Can anyone share any facts, statistics, or studies regarding the affect of shift work on health.

 

[Volvo140G]

What's your line of work?

 

[wake_me]

Doing straight nights myself, while trying to bulk on cycle. My weight has gone up and down. Very physical job, and have lost weight at 4,500 calories a day and about 165lbs. As far as sleep goes, I use melatonin, valarien root and I find GABA works really well for making me drowsy and putting me to sleep like a sleeping pill.

 

[Jebrook]

Doing straight nights myself, while trying to bulk on cycle. My weight has gone up and down. Very physical job, and have lost weight at 4,500 calories a day and about 165lbs. As far as sleep goes, I use melatonin, valarien root and I find GABA works really well for making me drowsy and putting me to sleep like a sleeping pill.

Thanks. Notice any added issues with stress/cortisol or blood pressure, etc.?

 

[wake_me]

Thanks. Notice any added issues with stress/cortisol or blood pressure, etc.?

I've been taking an on-cycle support powder that covers cortisol,BP,liver etc. and checking BP at walmart every few days, with no concerns. On a cycle of 650mg 1-andro ED and 30mg Ostra ED. Also, for stress no more than normal, but I occasionally take a product called phenibut which is great for stress.

 

[bighulksmash]

Jebrook i worked in a freezer 12 hrs 4 on 3 off shift was 430pm to 430am . I met a Russian guy who was huge, he was pumping everything. The best advice he gave me was to eat seafood and dark greens every day . Some nights i couldn't sleep at first . So i was popping 25 mg seroquil soon as i got home , this gave me the deep refreshing sleep i needed . Another suggestion that helped me was to stay away from caffine if i could. Limit the intake as much as possible. The withdrawal played nasty tricks on me . Hallucinations day dreams not safe driving a cherry picker or pallet jack at 20 miles per hour through a huge slippery freezer. The place was called C&S wholesale . Dosing taurine and leucine may help focus as well . I hope this helps man you're a great guy and you've sure shared your wisdoms with me on a few occasions.

 

[King87]

Not to Hijack but what are some cortisol aids? I consider myself to be a moderately stressed person. On top of that I work 12hr rotating shift as well (days/nights).

Never really thought about using a cortisol aid. Never really heard of it either. Also running MK at the moment as well

 

[Jebrook]

Not to Hijack but what are some cortisol aids? I consider myself to be a moderately stressed person. On top of that I work 12hr rotating shift as well (days/nights).

Never really thought about using a cortisol aid. Never really heard of it either. Also running MK at the moment as well

There's a ton of things beneficial to reducing cortisol levels:
Reducing caffeine intake
Chromium
L-Glutamine
Vitamin C
B Vitamins
Ginger
Cayenne
Arimistane, a popular Aromatase Inhibitor has shown some evidence of reducing cortisol. SNS makes a product specifically for cortisol reduction called Reduce XT. I'm sure there are quite a few more out there.

 

[Jebrook]

Middle of the night bump:/

 

[Jebrook]

All right guys, I'm going to forego any anabolics for the moment. This first week has me dragging *ss. I can feel stress levels shooting up and body is tired and achy. No weight drop yet. It usually takes a while. I am considering doing a cycle of something lighter like SARMs for 8-12 weeks. Maybe after 5-6 months and things have leveled out and in a solid routine I will consider a light cycle. Main thing is I don't wanna lose mass. No worries about gaining fat as I always lose mass and fat overnight. Gonna look into Osta, GW, and LGD, maybe Rad. Any thoughts on what would help out of these options? I know all about em on paper, but haven't watched a lot of the logs closely.

 

[T-Bone]

All right guys, I'm going to forego any anabolics for the moment. This first week has me dragging *ss. I can feel stress levels shooting up and body is tired and achy. No weight drop yet. It usually takes a while. I am considering doing a cycle of something lighter like SARMs for 8-12 weeks. Maybe after 5-6 months and things have leveled out and in a solid routine I will consider a light cycle. Main thing is I don't wanna lose mass. No worries about gaining fat as I always lose mass and fat overnight. Gonna look into Osta, GW, and LGD, maybe Rad. Any thoughts on what would help out of these options? I know all about em on paper, but haven't watched a lot of the logs closely.

Ostarine would be great for helping you hang on to some mass. GW- definitely not, haven't run LGD but it seems like it'd be too strong for what you want to do, and I haven't run RAD yet. RAD is pretty new, Ostarine has some history, so yeah I'd probably go with Osta.

 

[goodvibes]

Ostarine would be great for helping you hang on to some mass. GW- definitely not, haven't run LGD but it seems like it'd be too strong for what you want to do, and I haven't run RAD yet. RAD is pretty new, Ostarine has some history, so yeah I'd probably go with Osta.

I was just dropping your name last night on how you love GW. Lol jk I knew you hated that sht with a passion. Osta is actually really good at preserving mass but that's about it. Maybe some strength gains too but nothing drastic.

 

[made2last]

Good luck Jebrook, recovery without good sleep sucks, my job calls me for OT randomly to the point I've missed workouts in anticipation of getting called in for work, unfortunately I don't see any real fix for this, but stopping anabolics would def be at the top of recommendations, I use zma for good restful sleep but I think I'm immune to it now, at 1st I'd have crazy dreams and actually looked forward to them, now their gone, sorry I can't offer any good advice, but my daily commute is 4-5 hrs a day. I feel your pain brother, again good luck and hope you find a solid solution u can share with us sleep deprived iron warriors lol

 

[Joedoubledose]

If you wanna gain mass Id do LGD , took a bit for me to feel lethargic it wasn't until week 8 I had lethargy , rad has been giving others lethargy around week 4 and it's not test base related so Id count that out as your night option and since you wanna run it 8-12 weeks

 

[Joedoubledose]

Id honestly do just Lgd at 4mgs the first week or two and 8mgs the rest of the cycle . Easy recovery and plenty of mass , you can still gain slightly at maintenance Aswell .

 

[Jebrook]

Id honestly do just Lgd at 4mgs the first week or two and 8mgs the rest of the cycle . Easy recovery and plenty of mass , you can still gain slightly at maintenance Aswell .

Thanks for the input. Still considering the options. In your experience with LGD did you have any negatives like lethargy or blood pressure?

 

[Joedoubledose]

Only side effects I got was lethargy and that wasn't until the beginning of week 8 . No bp issues , no nothing . It was a good run !