Products Bloodwork

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  1. Products Bloodwork


    Quote Originally Posted by ahh123 View Post
    Yeah I agree as well - scanned pic of bloodwork is more legitimate (OK somebody could also have it edited or photoshop-ed to show any number desired), while just posting numbers easier to doubt if numbers are real or just made up.

    At the end is all about trust in member's posting his/her results and credibility of a member to post real results and not edited or made up.
    Yup, it's all smoke and mirrors. Anyone can say anything. That's the beauty of the internet.
    Just now, there is a localized place for reps and supporters to pimp the hell out of their favorite stuff!

    Wait....isn't that supposed to be in the company sub forum?
    Dang...

    Oh well, I'll stop filling this thread with nonsense...an wait for something related to look at


  2. Quote Originally Posted by ahh123 View Post
    Yeah I agree as well - scanned pic of bloodwork is more legitimate (OK somebody could also have it edited or photoshop-ed to show any number desired), while just posting numbers easier to doubt if numbers are real or just made up.

    At the end is all about trust in member's posting his/her results and credibility of a member to post real results and not edited or made up.

    But I'm glad topic got a lift off in posting results.
    I hear ya man. I was planning on scanning the bloodwork, but decided against it for a couple personal reasons. But, listen they are either going to believe it or not. If I scan my bloods in then they would just say well this doesnt prove he was on the product he says. All I can say is I have been getting regular bloodwork (2-4 months apart) for the past 4 years. And for the doubters, I have no reason to lie about my numbers. In fact it would be very irresponsible of me to put other members at risk. I am trying to help the AM community in saying we finally have a legit otc ai. I wouldnt do this without having bloods to prove it. I would never go off just feel because well we all remember how that worked out for amiristane. I work in the Medical field and would never want to put another's health at risk especially with their hormone levels.
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  3. I think one of the Op's reasons for starting this thread was to move away from the rep wars to a more objective and balanced picture which bloodwork could provide.

    It would be ideal if scanned bloodwork could be posted but if not no reason to flame another poster or for someone to post inflammatory statements such as where are the ... doubters now. I for one was hoping for something different to the tired old rep wars. I look forward to seeing more bloodwork and less inquistions when bloodwork is posted. We're adult we can tell when something looks suspicious and the bloodwork posted above is nothing to get overexcited about

  4. In for more results.
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  5. Quote Originally Posted by Cjg View Post
    I want to see a arimistane blood test!!!!
    You really, really don't.

    I'll post all my bloods shortly and another round when I've got pre and post bloods for Letrone + Rebirth.

    Currently have separate bloods for baseline (no products), Arimistane, and Formestane at 2 weeks and 3 months.

  6. Sure feck it I'll post them now.

    This is my baseline, wasn't taking anything except nightly ZMA at the time.

    Testosterone: 13.5 nmol/L, range 8.6-29
    Estradiol: 112 pmol/L, range 28-156
    LH: 3.3 U/L, range 2-9
    FSH: 1.9 U/L, range 2-12
    Prolactin 214 mU/L, range 86-324

    Pretty appalling baseline as you can see, hence my desire to fix it with some AI activity. So I took OG Erase Pro for eight weeks and got the following bloods at the end of the, during week 8:

    Testosterone: 16.1 nmol/L, range 8.6-29
    Estradiol: 424 pmol/L, range 28-156
    LH: 4.8 U/L, range 2-9
    FSH: 2.2 U/L, range 2-12
    Prolactin 349 mU/L, range 86-324
    Prolactin minus macroprolactin: 276 mU/L, range 63-245

    Unmitigated disaster as you can see. I therefore stopped Arimistane at eight weeks, and took nothing further until early 2015.

    In early 2015 when I heard Formestane was being banned I hoovered up the last Formestane to be sold by JW Supplements. Two bottles of Formeron, three bottles of TransFORM. Both dosed at 50mg per ml, but slight difference in that Formeron had 1.5 ml per pump while TransFORM had 2ml.

    Code:
    				Pre Forma		1w Forma		2m Forma + 1m Prolactrone
    
    Estradiol			104			54			77
    Testosterone			12.5			13.98			13.9
    SHGB				30.4			32			31.7
    Prolactin			174			191			170
    LH				3.5			N/A			2.6
    FSH				2.2			N/A			2.1
    My final set of bloods was done in the final week of my Formestane run, in July:

    Estradiol: 80
    Testosterone: 16.3
    SHGB: 31.3
    LH: 3.6
    FSH: 2.5
    Prolactin: 242

    So essentially in summary, Formestane drops E2 and increases testosterone and gonadotropins, but beyond a certain dose it actually doesn't become any more effective than it was. Remember that the two higher E2 results were while I was taking a double dose of Formestane compared to the first result - this ties in with what Brundel has said previously about Formestane being limited both in how long it remains effective on a single run and how high you can dose it while continuing to see better results.

    The Arimistane bloods could be a coincidence, but I've heard from several others who experiences massive increases in prolactin while on Arimistane so I'm inclined to advise people to give it a wide berth. This could be related to how my E2 wound up triple what it should have been, despite the allegedly anti aromatase activity of Arimistane. I'm sure it's possible that it was caused by something else, but given the number of blood tests I've had and the fact that E2 and Prolactin were only *ever* cited as being above the normal range was during my Arimistane run... My advice is avoid avoid avoid.

    Prolactrone succeeded in bringing down my prolactin during the run, albeit not by as much as I'd been hoping. However, this could be related to the fact that I stopped taking ZMA around the time I was taking Prolactrone which could have depleted my levels of dopa decarboxylase too much (tricky business - you want enough of it in the brain but not enough outside it, and by stopping ZMA I would have dropped my vitamin B6 intake which would affect both the in and out of brain levels of dopa decarboxylase).

    So saying, I might do another Prolactrone run at some stage while taking ZMA and see if that makes it more effective. Regardless, even just by dropping prolactin by 20 mU, my libido and motivation for life in general rocketed through the roof and I found myself popping awkward, random boners during lectures in a way that hadn't happened to me since I was around 14.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by conkertheking View Post
    Sure feck it I'll post them now.

    This is my baseline, wasn't taking anything except nightly ZMA at the time.

    Testosterone: 13.5 nmol/L, range 8.6-29
    Estradiol: 112 pmol/L, range 28-156
    LH: 3.3 U/L, range 2-9
    FSH: 1.9 U/L, range 2-12
    Prolactin 214 mU/L, range 86-324

    Pretty appalling baseline as you can see, hence my desire to fix it with some AI activity. So I took OG Erase Pro for eight weeks and got the following bloods at the end of the, during week 8:

    Testosterone: 16.1 nmol/L, range 8.6-29
    Estradiol: 424 pmol/L, range 28-156
    LH: 4.8 U/L, range 2-9
    FSH: 2.2 U/L, range 2-12
    Prolactin 349 mU/L, range 86-324
    Prolactin minus macroprolactin: 276 mU/L, range 63-245

    Unmitigated disaster as you can see. I therefore stopped Arimistane at eight weeks, and took nothing further until early 2015.

    In early 2015 when I heard Formestane was being banned I hoovered up the last Formestane to be sold by JW Supplements. Two bottles of Formeron, three bottles of TransFORM. Both dosed at 50mg per ml, but slight difference in that Formeron had 1.5 ml per pump while TransFORM had 2ml.

    Code:
    				Pre Forma		1w Forma		2m Forma + 1m Prolactrone
    
    Estradiol			104			54			77
    Testosterone			12.5			13.98			13.9
    SHGB				30.4			32			31.7
    Prolactin			174			191			170
    LH				3.5			N/A			2.6
    FSH				2.2			N/A			2.1
    My final set of bloods was done in the final week of my Formestane run, in July:

    Estradiol: 80
    Testosterone: 16.3
    SHGB: 31.3
    LH: 3.6
    FSH: 2.5
    Prolactin: 242

    So essentially in summary, Formestane drops E2 and increases testosterone and gonadotropins, but beyond a certain dose it actually doesn't become any more effective than it was. Remember that the two higher E2 results were while I was taking a double dose of Formestane compared to the first result - this ties in with what Brundel has said previously about Formestane being limited both in how long it remains effective on a single run and how high you can dose it while continuing to see better results.

    The Arimistane bloods could be a coincidence, but I've heard from several others who experiences massive increases in prolactin while on Arimistane so I'm inclined to advise people to give it a wide berth. This could be related to how my E2 wound up triple what it should have been, despite the allegedly anti aromatase activity of Arimistane. I'm sure it's possible that it was caused by something else, but given the number of blood tests I've had and the fact that E2 and Prolactin were only *ever* cited as being above the normal range was during my Arimistane run... My advice is avoid avoid avoid.

    Prolactrone succeeded in bringing down my prolactin during the run, albeit not by as much as I'd been hoping. However, this could be related to the fact that I stopped taking ZMA around the time I was taking Prolactrone which could have depleted my levels of dopa decarboxylase too much (tricky business - you want enough of it in the brain but not enough outside it, and by stopping ZMA I would have dropped my vitamin B6 intake which would affect both the in and out of brain levels of dopa decarboxylase).

    So saying, I might do another Prolactrone run at some stage while taking ZMA and see if that makes it more effective. Regardless, even just by dropping prolactin by 20 mU, my libido and motivation for life in general rocketed through the roof and I found myself popping awkward, random boners during lectures in a way that hadn't happened to me since I was around 14.
    Now this is fine example how members should post their blood work, what they were taking and commentary to try to explain how product(s) affected their hormone levels.

    @Admin - maybe time to make this topic sticky.

  8. Subbed for reference

  9. Quote Originally Posted by conkertheking View Post
    Sure feck it I'll post them now.

    This is my baseline, wasn't taking anything except nightly ZMA at the time.

    Testosterone: 13.5 nmol/L, range 8.6-29
    Estradiol: 112 pmol/L, range 28-156
    LH: 3.3 U/L, range 2-9
    FSH: 1.9 U/L, range 2-12
    Prolactin 214 mU/L, range 86-324

    Pretty appalling baseline as you can see, hence my desire to fix it with some AI activity. So I took OG Erase Pro for eight weeks and got the following bloods at the end of the, during week 8:

    Testosterone: 16.1 nmol/L, range 8.6-29
    Estradiol: 424 pmol/L, range 28-156
    LH: 4.8 U/L, range 2-9
    FSH: 2.2 U/L, range 2-12
    Prolactin 349 mU/L, range 86-324
    Prolactin minus macroprolactin: 276 mU/L, range 63-245

    Unmitigated disaster as you can see. I therefore stopped Arimistane at eight weeks, and took nothing further until early 2015.

    In early 2015 when I heard Formestane was being banned I hoovered up the last Formestane to be sold by JW Supplements. Two bottles of Formeron, three bottles of TransFORM. Both dosed at 50mg per ml, but slight difference in that Formeron had 1.5 ml per pump while TransFORM had 2ml.

    Code:
    				Pre Forma		1w Forma		2m Forma + 1m Prolactrone
    
    Estradiol			104			54			77
    Testosterone			12.5			13.98			13.9
    SHGB				30.4			32			31.7
    Prolactin			174			191			170
    LH				3.5			N/A			2.6
    FSH				2.2			N/A			2.1
    My final set of bloods was done in the final week of my Formestane run, in July:

    Estradiol: 80
    Testosterone: 16.3
    SHGB: 31.3
    LH: 3.6
    FSH: 2.5
    Prolactin: 242

    So essentially in summary, Formestane drops E2 and increases testosterone and gonadotropins, but beyond a certain dose it actually doesn't become any more effective than it was. Remember that the two higher E2 results were while I was taking a double dose of Formestane compared to the first result - this ties in with what Brundel has said previously about Formestane being limited both in how long it remains effective on a single run and how high you can dose it while continuing to see better results.

    The Arimistane bloods could be a coincidence, but I've heard from several others who experiences massive increases in prolactin while on Arimistane so I'm inclined to advise people to give it a wide berth. This could be related to how my E2 wound up triple what it should have been, despite the allegedly anti aromatase activity of Arimistane. I'm sure it's possible that it was caused by something else, but given the number of blood tests I've had and the fact that E2 and Prolactin were only *ever* cited as being above the normal range was during my Arimistane run... My advice is avoid avoid avoid.

    Prolactrone succeeded in bringing down my prolactin during the run, albeit not by as much as I'd been hoping. However, this could be related to the fact that I stopped taking ZMA around the time I was taking Prolactrone which could have depleted my levels of dopa decarboxylase too much (tricky business - you want enough of it in the brain but not enough outside it, and by stopping ZMA I would have dropped my vitamin B6 intake which would affect both the in and out of brain levels of dopa decarboxylase).

    So saying, I might do another Prolactrone run at some stage while taking ZMA and see if that makes it more effective. Regardless, even just by dropping prolactin by 20 mU, my libido and motivation for life in general rocketed through the roof and I found myself popping awkward, random boners during lectures in a way that hadn't happened to me since I was around 14.
    VERY detailed and informative. Thanks
    Anything, just ask

  10. I'd like to see 4-andro bloodwork...

  11. Nice thread
  12. Products Bloodwork


    Quote Originally Posted by Willtolift View Post
    I'd like to see 4-andro bloodwork...
    I will tell you that 1-andro tanks lipids HARD and into dangerous levels.

    Of course those lipids do typically return to normal after cessation.
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  13. Subbed. My bottle of Letrone is almost empty and I just purchased the bloodwork, so results will be posted soon.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by kboxer7 View Post
    I will tell you that 1-andro tanks lipids HARD and into dangerous levels.

    Of course those lipids do typically return to normal after cessation.

    Shutdown is also pretty apparent. You hear people talking about levels of suppression (regarding T), but suppressed is suppressed.
    Really more interested in evidence of how much 4-andro converts to test. I don't doubt the substances work. But it would be nice to have a rough guesstimate of the average conversion rate of these dhea non methylated type compounds.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by Willtolift View Post
    Really more interested in evidence of how much 4-andro converts to test. I don't doubt the substances work. But it would be nice to have a rough guesstimate of the average conversion rate of these dhea non methylated type compounds.
    I'm interested too, using 4-AD sometimes as test base.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Willtolift View Post
    Really more interested in evidence of how much 4-and to converts to test. I don't doubt the substances work. But it would be nice to have a rough guesstimate of the average conversion rate of these dhea non methylated type compounds.
    Got it. There are a lot of factors (specific to the individual) that affect that conversion rate. Two large ones are age and the amount of aromatase enzyme.

    I will say data supports that exogenous DHEA works MUCH better in older gents than younger. In the study below, supplementation of DHEA only affected testosterone/estrogen ratios for 2-5 hours and never exceeded a 6:1 ratio*. In contrast, a 47 year old male's supplementation of exogenous DHEA resulted in ratios well exceeding 6:1 starting on day one of supplementation**

    Conversion to androstenedione in young males seems quite significant: In a study of 10 young men (23 4 yr old), ingestion of 50 mg of DHEA increased serum androstenedione concentrations 150% within 60 min***

    *Bosy TZ, Moore KA, Poklis A. The effect of oral dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) on the urine testosterone/epitestosterone (T/E) ratio in human male volunteers. J Anal Toxicol 1998;22:455-459.

    **Bowers LD. Oral dehydroepiandrosterone supplementation can increase the testosterone/epitestosterone ratio. Clin Chem 1999;45:295-297.

    ***Effect of oral DHEA on serum testosterone and adaptations to resistance training in young men.
    Brown GA1, Vukovich MD, Sharp RL, Reifenrath TA, Parsons KA, King DS.
    Olympus Labs Representative
    Olympus Labs - Turning Men Into Demigods
    BOXER30 TO SAVE 30% OFF OLYMPUS LABS ITEMS

  17. Quote Originally Posted by hairygrandpa View Post
    I'm interested too, using 4-AD sometimes as test base.
    4dhea doesn't work becuase its conversion to test(because its essentially non existent). It does convert to 4ad which has an anabolic ratio of 94:100

  18. Not asking anyone one to do it but it would be nice to see bloods with Rebirth vs RC SERMS and Letrone(3-4 caps)vs RC AIs

  19. Quote Originally Posted by rtmilburn View Post
    4dhea doesn't work becuase its conversion to test(because its essentially non existent). It does convert to 4ad which has an anabolic ratio of 94:100
    So you're saying 4-Dhea will not work as a test base or that it works through a different mechanism by conversion to 4AD?

  20. I have bloods from when -epi first came out. It shows a slight improvement in lipids, C-reactive protein and LFTs. The LFTs may be none related, but its worth mentioning. The bloodwork is from three months on -epi. Not sure if anyone is interested if so let me know.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by kboxer7 View Post
    Got it. There are a lot of factors (specific to the individual) that affect that conversion rate. Two large ones are age and the amount of aromatase enzyme.

    I will say data supports that exogenous DHEA works MUCH better in older gents than younger. In the study below, supplementation of DHEA only affected testosterone/estrogen ratios for 2-5 hours and never exceeded a 6:1 ratio*. In contrast, a 47 year old male's supplementation of exogenous DHEA resulted in ratios well exceeding 6:1 starting on day one of supplementation**

    Conversion to androstenedione in young males seems quite significant: In a study of 10 young men (23 4 yr old), ingestion of 50 mg of DHEA increased serum androstenedione concentrations 150% within 60 min***

    *Bosy TZ, Moore KA, Poklis A. The effect of oral dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) on the urine testosterone/epitestosterone (T/E) ratio in human male volunteers. J Anal Toxicol 1998;22:455-459.

    **Bowers LD. Oral dehydroepiandrosterone supplementation can increase the testosterone/epitestosterone ratio. Clin Chem 1999;45:295-297.

    ***Effect of oral DHEA on serum testosterone and adaptations to resistance training in young men.
    Brown GA1, Vukovich MD, Sharp RL, Reifenrath TA, Parsons KA, King DS.
    I'm using 4-AD in stack with Trenavar/Epistane, to keep my joints from drying out. My thought is, that 4-AD converts to test and excess is aromatized to estrogen, giving me a somewhat "wet" compound for my joints. Is my thought process sound? I'm using also Dermacrine, does this interfere with the 4-AD? I'm 47 by the way.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by Willtolift View Post
    So you're saying 4-Dhea will not work as a test base or that it works through a different mechanism by conversion to 4AD?
    The amount of test you would get through conversion is very minimal. Like almost nothing.
    BLACK LION RESEARCH Take your own path-

  23. Quote Originally Posted by brundel View Post
    The amount of test you would get through conversion is very minimal. Like almost nothing.
    So considering I have used test years ago, I may find the gains from a high dose of1-Andro, 4-Andro, and EpiAndro laughable?

  24. Quote Originally Posted by hairygrandpa View Post
    I'm using 4-AD in stack with Trenavar/Epistane, to keep my joints from drying out. My thought is, that 4-AD converts to test and excess is aromatized to estrogen, giving me a somewhat "wet" compound for my joints. Is my thought process sound? I'm using also Dermacrine, does this interfere with the 4-AD? I'm 47 by the way.
    4-Andro will certainly increase estrogen to some extent. How much and whether or not that will help your joints would be hard to say.

    Typically 4-andro is ran as what most call a "test base," in order to feel more energetic and for that alpha/drive feeling. This is due more so to DHEA's conversion to 4-androstenediol (4-AD) vs conversion to test.
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    Olympus Labs - Turning Men Into Demigods
    BOXER30 TO SAVE 30% OFF OLYMPUS LABS ITEMS
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