Help on non-pct required stack for recomp

[chrys]

Hello forum,

You rock!! I am amazed by the amount of information and useful tips you can find here!

I have read quite a lot and still feel that I am at the beginning of the ph/sarm world! So I need your help in getting my first steps here!

I want to start a mild ph/sarm cycle (4-5 weeks) that does not require any SERM! I am not against that but I do not have any in hand right now, plus it is difficult to find any legit sites that you can buy...(I know it is against the rules but if you know any legit site in Europe PM me
The other reason for trying something mild is that I want to see how it works on my body, side effects, etc.

So some stats about me: 34 years old, ph/sarm newbie, supplements so far include protein, creatine...the usual stuff!
My target is primarily to gain lean muscle and lose some fat (sort of recomp, +1-2 kg of lean muscle and drop 1-2% fat). I train 4-5 times per week, with lots of compound exercises and low rep mode plus some cardio (20 min in every session). My diet follows a carb cycling protocol at approximately 2500 kcal (with 500 less on off days). I want to increase that gradually to 3000 kcal and keep feeding up my muscles

Given the above target, what stack/compounds would you recommend me?

Some alternatives that I have read about lately:
Cardarine/GW-501516 (Olympus UK) --> 4 weeks cycle
Ibutamoren/MK-677 (Olympus UK) --> taken up to 3 months
Epiandrosterone (Primeval Labs) --> 4 weeks cycle
Dermacrine (BPS)

Any other compounds that you have tried and worked well or what to stack and get a meaningful first cycle?

Thanks!!

 

[booneman77]

ANY ph and most sarms that will gain you any muscle will need a pct. some will be less suppressive than others but there's literally nothing to suggest that running one without a proper pct is a good idea.

Of the things you listed, cardarine won't help you gain any muscle; mk might very very mildly; epiandro will need a pct, and dermacrine isn't a ph or sarm (may help with your goals tho and not need a pct).

If you absolutely want to avoid hormonal products (aka no pct required), stick to a natural anabolic stack or product. Some suggestions that would meet your goals/requirements:
Xgels+anabeta elite
Magnitropin

If you truly want to do a cycle, have done proper research, and understand the potential risks and consequences, there's no reason not to just get something suppressive and do a proper pct. the gains will be exponentially better.

 

[Canes325]

ANY ph and most sarms that will gain you any muscle will need a pct. some will be less suppressive than others but there's literally nothing to suggest that running one without a proper pct is a good idea.

Of the things you listed, cardarine won't help you gain any muscle; mk might very very mildly; epiandro will need a pct, and dermacrine isn't a ph or sarm (may help with your goals tho and not need a pct).

If you absolutely want to avoid hormonal products (aka no pct required), stick to a natural anabolic stack or product. Some suggestions that would meet your goals/requirements:
Xgels+anabeta elite
Magnitropin

If you truly want to do a cycle, have done proper research, and understand the potential risks and consequences, there's no reason not to just get something suppressive and do a proper pct. the gains will be exponentially better.

That pretty much covers everything OP. You might be able to get away with a rebirth/test booster/A.I. Combo for pct. But most will tell you to get a serm anyway.

 

[chrys]

Thanks guys, you are giving me food for thought!!

It is not that I want to avoid any pct but more avoid taking SERM as a first step for pct. One reason is that I do not have one in hand and takes a lot of research in google to find a legitimate site (at least in Europe). The other reason is that I want to try something mild and see how it works on me. By saying mild, I mean that suppresion is mild and thus a non-SERM pct can be used. Somehow I feel that we are black and white, either you have to take something mild (with very little gains) or then something stronger but then you need a SERM.

So any ideas on mild hormonal products that you can use a test-booster/AI combo and still see muscle gains?

I was told about rebirth as a pct option to mild cycles, I will look more into that!! What about Epicatechin?

 

[booneman77]

Thanks guys, you are giving me food for thought!!

It is not that I want to avoid any pct but more avoid taking SERM as a first step for pct. One reason is that I do not have one in hand and takes a lot of research in google to find a legitimate site (at least in Europe). The other reason is that I want to try something mild and see how it works on me. By saying mild, I mean that suppresion is mild and thus a non-SERM pct can be used. Somehow I feel that we are black and white, either you have to take something mild (with very little gains) or then something stronger but then you need a SERM.

So any ideas on mild hormonal products that you can use a test-booster/AI combo and still see muscle gains?

I was told about rebirth as a pct option to mild cycles, I will look more into that!! What about Epicatechin?

Epicatachin is completely non hormonal. No pct required.

If you must do something hormonal, you need a pct. it's pretty black and white.

If you take anything that suppresses your natural hormones, you should use a serm. The difference between a harsh suppression and a mild suppression is basically negligible in that they both require a recovery period where your natural levels are low and your body will have a tough, and nearly impossible, time keeping the muscle you just built. The point of a serm is to limit the amount of time that it takes your body to produce normal levels and thus support the muscle you built. Without those levels your body simply can't maintain that.

 

[chrys]

Thanks for the information!! I believed that if you get a product with mild suppression then you can do a pct with OTC products without using a serm. But maybe, as you said, it is always good to be in the safe side when playing with the hormones.
I will try a non hormonal cycle to start with and then move on...so more research and questions will follow up!

 

[Lucianooo]

Thanks for the information!! I believed that if you get a product with mild suppression then you can do a pct with OTC products without using a serm. But maybe, as you said, it is always good to be in the safe side when playing with the hormones.
I will try a non hormonal cycle to start with and then move on...so more research and questions will follow up!

You can try our Ep1c Unleashed (phenomenal natty anabolic no pct required) other than that you can take Cardar1ne and Ghar1ne together i'm currently taking them on my pct and im keeping all of my gains(im even stronger than on cycle)

 

[chrys]

Guys thanks!! I am thinking to stack Ep1c and dermacrine.
I have read very good reviews on anabeta as well...stack it with them is it good? or is it better to stick to the first two products for now?

 

[booneman77]

Guys thanks!! I am thinking to stack Ep1c and dermacrine.
I have read very good reviews on anabeta as well...stack it with them is it good? or is it better to stick to the first two products for now?

I think stacking just the derm and epic is good for a start. It certainly wouldn't hurt (it'll help) but I think there's a better use for it and if you haven't used before you should keep it simple

Abe is better stacked with Xgels as there's synergy.