Epistane Pulse - Good idea?

RePower

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hello, this is my first post since i joined and i really need your opinion. I was planning to do my first cycle on epistane. So pulsing is it a good idea? My main goal is to lean out while maintaining muscle mass. i am currently at 212 lbs with 11% bf and need to get at about 8%.

Plan: M:30mg / W:30mg/ F:30mg/ S:20mg for 6 weeks

Also is it a good idea to take them early in the morning all the dosage at once without overloading the liver?

Thank you guys any advice would be appreciated!
 
The Yolkster

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Not sure about the whole pulse cycle as i just ran it at 20/30/30/40, but I would spread the dosage throughout the day due to it's short half life of about 6-8 hours
 
RePower

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Thank you Yolkster for the response. I have read somewhere multiple times that taking all the dosage in the morning will give your body enough time to recover the rest of the day and the next. But i dont know if it is Bro Science thats why i need your opinion :) also i have read that taking half a dosage before and half after working out it is a good idea. What is your opinion ?
 
The Yolkster

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Thank you Yolkster for the response. I have read somewhere multiple times that taking all the dosage in the morning will give your body enough time to recover the rest of the day and the next. But i dont know if it is Bro Science thats why i need your opinion :) also i have read that taking half a dosage before and half after working out it is a good idea. What is your opinion ?
I would personally spread the doses out a couple of hours being that the compound should still be active in the system if you were to have taken it before the workout. I would spread my doses out evenly when I was on epi
 
RePower

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Thank you.... Really helpful :) ! I would like to know what was your experience while on epi ?
 
The Yolkster

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Thank you.... Really helpful :) ! I would like to know what was your experience while on epi ?
Just finished yesterday, gained a solid 15.5lbs being my first cycle. Side effects were sore joints and back pumps. I would highly recommend picking up some taurine to use to prevent back pumps as they get pretty bad starting week 3. Do you have a serm for pct?
 
RePower

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No thats why I am doing a pulse... I dont know if it is a good idea but serm is really hard to find any in my country w/o prescription and it is very tough to get such a prescription.... I wouldn't trust any websites selling liquid nolva or something . I only trust reputable retailers that have a solid feedback from users. Do you have. A serm following your cycle?
 

white_lie

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Just get some rebirth and an OTC PCT like Sup3r PCT or similar.
Will be fine for an epi only cycle.

Get taurine to run with your cycle support. And start the cycle support a week before you start the epi.

I'd ramp the dosage, 20 the first week, 30 the next. Up to 40 if you're keen. You can always drop it back down.
You can split it in to two or three doses, up to you. I'd just go am/pm to keep it simple.
 
Joedoubledose

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Allways have a serm or don't cycle and pulsing is a waste , some of the more experienced PH users will chime in . Take the epistane the right way and make sure you get a serm . There's people all over the world who can get them you just have to look hard enough and you'll find a reputable place
 
RePower

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white_lie thank you for the advice .... I got elim1nate and plain DAA powder.... I always responded well to DAA so is it sufficient enough ? As for support got AI Cycle Support
 
RePower

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Joedoubledose do you know any reputable place with solid feedback ? As for pulsing I have read excellent reviews with OTC PCT .... However I have my doubts as well so I am processing the info I get from you guys :)
 
Joedoubledose

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I can't source :( it's against board rules , and anything that's hormonal I wouldn't take the chance of an OTC anything unless it was low doses ostarine and that's a personal choice which I recommend to no one . Do you have any on cycle suppliments as well ?
 
RePower

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I appreciate it Joedoubledose.... And yes ive got AI cycle support, fish oil, taurine .... Should i consider joint support supplements as well ?
 

white_lie

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Yes, get a joint supp as well.
A lot of people like Cissus, I find glucosamine works fine for me

Elim1nate is not a bad supp but I prefer Sup3r PCT as a more rounded OTC PCT product. May as well use it if you've got it
 
RePower

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I would go with glucosamine - chondroitin as i have good experience from previous usage.... Treated well shoulder tendonitis.... As for pct sup3r pct has an excellent ingredient profile so I am considering using it :)
 
RePower

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Another thing I am confused about epistane.... Is that i read that it has high affinity for the estrogen receptor thus blocking it. So it acts similarly to a SERM but with high affinity for the androgen receptor as well hence its anabolic effect. Therefore if it acts like a serm this is the reason of estrogen rebound , from high accumulation of estrogens within the body without affecting the receptor. So i think lowering the dosage during the last week or adding another week with only 10 mg EOD would be beneficial in terms of estrogen rebound ?

I dont know if this statement is true , so I need your expert opinion :p
 
xR1pp3Rx

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That statement is false. Epi doesnt act as serm. You should see if any of the board sponsors ship over sea. Serm issue solved.
What country you in?
 
RePower

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Cyprus, its a small island/country within the European Union. Thank you xR1pp3Rx for your response !
 
Joedoubledose

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I've honestly never actually met anyone who live or has lived in Cyprus
 
RePower

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Haha its really small .... Barely seen on a world map but its nice..... :)
 
RePower

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Another question would be..... Should i take epistane on an empty stomach or with high fat food ?
 
RePower

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Bengal I respect your advice but can you explain a bit more ? Why is it a waste since there are people experienced solid gains and minimal sides? I need your opinion so i can consider wheather to pulse or not.....
 
Bengal

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When you manipulate the hormone levels in your body, you are best suited to maintain a constant level and avoid spikes. Take it every day at approximately the same time(s)
 
RePower

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Solid answer Bengal .... Thank you! Do you know the minimum effective dose to see results if i take it everyday? That would be 20mg or 30mg ?
 

white_lie

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Maybe 30mg as a minimum.
Well, you'd probably notice something on 20mg but if you're taking it, you're going to follow it up with PCT, may as well run it at a more effective dosage. 30 or 40mg is where you'll get the most out of it IMO.
 

Immunknyc

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What the hell epistane was made to be an ai what are you guys feeding these people
 

Immunknyc

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Properly known as methylepitiostanol, Epistane is a DHT derivative that is very similar in both structure and function to the anti-estrogenic Japanese breast cancer drug, epitiostanol. Differing only by the addition of a single methyl group, Epistane retains many of the same characteristics of its predecessor, yet exhhibits significantly greater anabolic activity. Many prospective users will be pleased to learn that it is both non-aromatizing and non-progestagenic
 
RePower

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Thanx guys..... Interesting piece of info Immunknyc. Being both antiestrogenic and anabolic with no aromatizing or progestagenic activity what do you suggest? Tappering down the dosage during the last week would be more beneficial in terms of "rebound gyno" ?
 
Joedoubledose

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Properly known as methylepitiostanol, Epistane is a DHT derivative that is very similar in both structure and function to the anti-estrogenic Japanese breast cancer drug, epitiostanol. Differing only by the addition of a single methyl group, Epistane retains many of the same characteristics of its predecessor, yet exhhibits significantly greater anabolic activity. Many prospective users will be pleased to learn that it is both non-aromatizing and non-progestagenic
Why are you even including this ? In the triumph thread you made it clear that PH's were worthless but now you wanna give info on epistane . And your main argument was about aromatization and you act like we told this kid it aromatizes and needs aromasin. All OP originally asked about was pulsing and now dosage . Jeeze.
 
RePower

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Any info is very welcomed but will be processed and considered carefully and responsibly so thank you Joedoubledose and Immunknyc :) However I was curious..... Is there any scientific literature suggesting that epistane is the derivative of methylepitiostanol or at least has antiestrogenic effects ? Any sort of scientific paper?
 

Immunknyc

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I dunno man ,, trying to show both i guess ,, i do not mean to come off cocky or know it all , maybe its the tren , i dunno man i was trying to show two things it is anabolic and not much to worry about gyno alot of oldschool people used it with m1t to help with water bloat as an AI .. you guys have mot slammed me at all , actually been receptive, i will only give my opinions and try to help younger guys reach there goals. If you guys wanna know i will update my bio. As for guy who wants to run epi . I would not pulse i would take morning and afternoon no need to waste while sleeping.
 

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pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/ja01511a040
Methasterone
Methasterone

Systematic (IUPAC) name
17β-Hydroxy-2α,17α-dimethyl-5α-androstane-3-one
Clinical data
Legal status
US: Schedule 3 controlled substance (US) as of August 29, 2012
Routes of
administration Oral
Pharmacokinetic data
Bioavailability ~50%
Metabolism Hepatic
Biological half-life 8-12 hours
Excretion Renal
Identifiers
CAS Registry Number 3381-88-2
ATC code None
PubChem CID: 237186
ChemSpider 207079
Synonyms Superdrol, methyldrostanolone, methasteron, drostanolone.
Chemical data
Formula C21H34O2
Molecular mass 318.492 g/mol
SMILES
O=C2C[C@@H]1CC[C@@H]3[C@@H]([C@@]1(C)C[C@H]2C)CC[C@]4([C@H]3CC[C@@]4(O)C)C
InChI
InChI=1S/C21H34O2/c1-13-12-19(2)14(11-18(13)22)5-6-15-16(19)7-9-20(3)17(15)8-10-21(20,4)23/h13-17,23H,5-12H2,1-4H3/t13-,14+,15-,16+,17+,19+,20+,21+/m1/s1
Key:QCWCXSMWLJFBNM-FOVYBZIDSA-N
(what is this?) (verify)
Methasterone (Superdrol, methasteron, and methyldrostanolone) is an oral anabolic steroid that was never marketed through legitimate channels for medicinal purposes. It was brought to market, instead, in a clandestine fashion as a “designer steroid.”

History Edit

The synthesis of methasterone is first mentioned in the literature in 1956 in connection with research conducted by Syntex Corporation in order to discover a compound with anti-tumor properties.[1] In a 1959 research journal article, it is initially mentioned and is elaborated upon where its method of synthesis is discussed in greater detail, its tumor inhibiting properties are verified, and it is noted as being a “potent orally active anabolic agent exhibiting only weak androgenic activity.”[2] The results of subsequent assays to determine methasterone’s anabolic and androgenic activity were published in Vida’s Androgens and Anabolic Agents, a dated but still standard reference, where it was noted that methasterone possessed the oral bioavailability of methyl-testosterone while being 400% as anabolic and 20% as androgenic, yielding a Q-ratio (also known as an anabolic to androgenic ratio) of 20, which is considered very high.[3]

Injectable counterpart Edit

Methasterone was never a commercially available prescription drug. Its non-17α-alkylated counterpart, drostanolone, was commercialized by Syntex Corporation under the brand name Masteron.[4]

"Designer steroid" Edit

Methasterone resurfaced in 2005 as a “designer steroid”.[5] It was brought to market by Designer Supplements as the primary ingredient of a dietary supplement named Superdrol. Its introduction into commerce may have represented an attempted circumvention of the U.S. Anabolic Steroids Control Act of 1990 (along with its 2004 revision), since the law is, in part, drug-specific;[6] methasterone, as is the case with many designer steroids, was not declared a Schedule III class anabolic steroid in that act because it was not commercially available at the time the act, and its subsequent revision, were signed into law.[7] Methasterone was therefore being sold as an over-the-counter dietary supplement.

Controversy and FDA involvement Edit

It was in late 2005 that the status of methasterone, in addition to that of four other designer steroids, as an anabolic steroid was brought to public awareness by an article published in the Washington Post.[8] Don Catlin of the UCLA Olympic Laboratory, who conducted the studies, noted methasterone’s similarity to drostanolone. A warning by the FDA was issued soon after to the general public as well as to the distributor, Designer Supplements LLC, for the marketing of this compound.[9] Methasterone was subsequently added to the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) list of prohibited substances in sport.[10] Despite all of this, methasterone has resurfaced within the supplement industry on several occasions since its banning by WADA.[11]

Hepatoxicity Edit

Methasterone is hepatotoxic (toxic to the liver). Many cases of liver damage due to the use of methasterone have been cited in the medical literature.[12][13][14][15]
 
T-Bone

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pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/ja01511a040
Methasterone
Methasterone

Systematic (IUPAC) name
17β-Hydroxy-2α,17α-dimethyl-5α-androstane-3-one
Clinical data
Legal status
US: Schedule 3 controlled substance (US) as of August 29, 2012
Routes of
administration Oral
Pharmacokinetic data
Bioavailability ~50%
Metabolism Hepatic
Biological half-life 8-12 hours
Excretion Renal
Identifiers
CAS Registry Number 3381-88-2
ATC code None
PubChem CID: 237186
ChemSpider 207079
Synonyms Superdrol, methyldrostanolone, methasteron, drostanolone.
Chemical data
Formula C21H34O2
Molecular mass 318.492 g/mol
SMILES
O=C2C[C@@H]1CC[C@@H]3[C@@H]([C@@]1(C)C[C@H]2C)CC[C@]4([C@H]3CC[C@@]4(O)C)C
InChI
InChI=1S/C21H34O2/c1-13-12-19(2)14(11-18(13)22)5-6-15-16(19)7-9-20(3)17(15)8-10-21(20,4)23/h13-17,23H,5-12H2,1-4H3/t13-,14+,15-,16+,17+,19+,20+,21+/m1/s1
Key:QCWCXSMWLJFBNM-FOVYBZIDSA-N
(what is this?) (verify)
Methasterone (Superdrol, methasteron, and methyldrostanolone) is an oral anabolic steroid that was never marketed through legitimate channels for medicinal purposes. It was brought to market, instead, in a clandestine fashion as a “designer steroid.”

History Edit

The synthesis of methasterone is first mentioned in the literature in 1956 in connection with research conducted by Syntex Corporation in order to discover a compound with anti-tumor properties.[1] In a 1959 research journal article, it is initially mentioned and is elaborated upon where its method of synthesis is discussed in greater detail, its tumor inhibiting properties are verified, and it is noted as being a “potent orally active anabolic agent exhibiting only weak androgenic activity.”[2] The results of subsequent assays to determine methasterone’s anabolic and androgenic activity were published in Vida’s Androgens and Anabolic Agents, a dated but still standard reference, where it was noted that methasterone possessed the oral bioavailability of methyl-testosterone while being 400% as anabolic and 20% as androgenic, yielding a Q-ratio (also known as an anabolic to androgenic ratio) of 20, which is considered very high.[3]

Injectable counterpart Edit

Methasterone was never a commercially available prescription drug. Its non-17α-alkylated counterpart, drostanolone, was commercialized by Syntex Corporation under the brand name Masteron.[4]

"Designer steroid" Edit

Methasterone resurfaced in 2005 as a “designer steroid”.[5] It was brought to market by Designer Supplements as the primary ingredient of a dietary supplement named Superdrol. Its introduction into commerce may have represented an attempted circumvention of the U.S. Anabolic Steroids Control Act of 1990 (along with its 2004 revision), since the law is, in part, drug-specific;[6] methasterone, as is the case with many designer steroids, was not declared a Schedule III class anabolic steroid in that act because it was not commercially available at the time the act, and its subsequent revision, were signed into law.[7] Methasterone was therefore being sold as an over-the-counter dietary supplement.

Controversy and FDA involvement Edit

It was in late 2005 that the status of methasterone, in addition to that of four other designer steroids, as an anabolic steroid was brought to public awareness by an article published in the Washington Post.[8] Don Catlin of the UCLA Olympic Laboratory, who conducted the studies, noted methasterone’s similarity to drostanolone. A warning by the FDA was issued soon after to the general public as well as to the distributor, Designer Supplements LLC, for the marketing of this compound.[9] Methasterone was subsequently added to the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) list of prohibited substances in sport.[10] Despite all of this, methasterone has resurfaced within the supplement industry on several occasions since its banning by WADA.[11]

Hepatoxicity Edit

Methasterone is hepatotoxic (toxic to the liver). Many cases of liver damage due to the use of methasterone have been cited in the medical literature.[12][13][14][15]
Why are cutting and pasting all this?. What does this have to do with anything?
 

Immunknyc

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Effective Dosing Ranges for OTC & Traditional AAS
1.) M1T: 5-30 mg/day.
2.) Superdrol: 10-40 mg/day.
3.) Dimethazine: 15-45 mg/day.
4.) Dianabol: 20-100 mg/day.
5.) Pheraplex/Anadrol: 20-45/50-100 mg/day.
6.) Epistane: 20-100 mg/day.
7-10.) Anavar, Winstrol, Turinabol, and Methyltestosterone: 40-100/50-100/30-100/20-50 mg/day.
 

Immunknyc

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I aplogize to mods that have to move all th o s stuff but some new people cant search and he can read this infi and make an adult decision on why how and when to take a Ph. I cant post thrwads yet cause of points .
 

Immunknyc

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M1T



Nomenclature: 17a-methyl-1-testosterone, or 17a-methyl-17b-hydroxy-1-androsten-3-one, or 17a-methyl-5a-androst-1-ene-3-one-17b-ol

Anabolic/Androgenic Ratio: 910-1600:100-220 vs. methyl test by oral administration. [1][2]

Synonyms: Methyl-1-testosterone, 17aa-M1T, M1T, Methyl Dread, M-One-T, 17a-methyl-dihydroboldenone

History:

It was originally synthesized as early as 1962 at Searle Laboratories though, like most compounds researched in the 1960s, never made it as far as human testing. Although it was extremely anabolic, it also possessed fairly strong androgenic qualities and was consigned to the annals of history, until it was unearthed decades later to take the bodybuilding supplement industry by storm.

M1T was the culmination of an arms race in the industry during the late 90s and early 2000s that started when Patrick Arnold released the prohormone to testosterone 4-androstenedione. He then followed it up with the hugely popular 1-androstenediol, a 1-testosterone precursor. Other firms took this one step further by producing the already-active 1-testosterone, and finally Legal Gear (now LG Sciences) upped the ante by bringing to market Methyl 1-Testosterone (M1T), which unlike the previous compounds was an entirely synthetic (non-naturally occurring) fully active oral steroid. [3]

The popularity of this and other synthetic hormones (along with a couple of sports doping scandals) attracted a lot of unwanted attention to the industry, resulting in the Anabolic Steroid Control Act of 2004 which saw M1T, 1-AD, 4-AD, and every prohormone and steroid the US govt. could think of added to Schedule III of the Controlled Substances Act, making them illegal to sell or possess, [4] though no legislative action has been taken against it in the UK at the time of writing.

Structure and Function:

This is a 17a-methylated compound, making it highly orally available. It lacks the delta-4 double bond of testosterone, having a 1,2 double bond instead. This means that it will not aromatise, and it will not 5a-reduce in androgen-sensitive tissues like testosterone can (since it's 5a-reduced already). Metabolism is limited, to a large extent, to reduction of the double bond and hydroxylation of the 3-ketone. [5]



Fig 1. Metabolism of 1-androstenes [6] (image simplified for illustrative purposes).

Effects:

Users can expect significant and rapid weight gain accompanied by extreme gains in strength. This is not a compound to be underestimated and would be well-suited to those looking for immediate results. Some of the weight gained will be in the form of fluid retention that will be lost upon cessation, though long-lasting physique improvements can be made by taking full advantage of the short highly anabolic window of the cycle.

Side Effects:

Many have assumed that M1T aromatises, however that is structurally impossible. What is possible - and much more likely in my opinion - is that it is an inhibitor of 11b-hydroxylase, which would account for both the apparent water retention ("bloat") and high blood pressure some users experience.

Inhibition of 11b-hydroxylase can lead to increased renin secretion which results in higher levels of aldosterone, a mineralocorticoid that causes high blood pressure and water retention through sodium retention and the excretion of potassium. [7]
One study on bodybuilders found far higher levels of aldosterone in the steroid-taking group than in the non-steroid taking group - and these changes remained far past the end of their cycles. [8]
This may or may not be the case for M1T (and many other steroids), but it is food for thought, particularly as a previous study pointed the finger at aldosterone as a cause of left ventricular hypertrophy, and suggested that it's heart remodelling effects may be unrelated to it's blood-pressure increasing effects. [9]

Liver toxicity is also a concern with this compound. While there are many 17a-methylated compounds on the market, they are not all equally hepatotoxic at like-for-like dosages. Protodrol for example is likely to impart minimal hepatic impact at doses of 100mg for six weeks, while 20mg of M1T for a couple of weeks will significantly adversely affect liver function markers. Abuse of this drug with high doses for long periods of time can result in intrahepatic cholestasis (jaundice), and for this reason cycles should be kept short, low-dosed, and alcohol-free.

Recommended Dosages and Cycle Durations:

Most trainees should see dramatic results at 10mg/day for two to three weeks, the cautious may do well on 5mg, while the more reckless will use higher doses and durations. Although cycles are short, it's a strong suppressive compound, so a full SERM PCT protocol is advised.


References:
[1] Acta Endocrinol December 1, 1966 53 635-643 [link]
[2] J. Med. Chem., 1965, 8 (1), pp 48?52 [link]
[3] The History Of Pro-Hormones on Super Human Radio
[4] Senate Bill 2195
[5] Recent Advances in Doping Analysis (14), Sport und Buch Strauss, Cologne, Germany, 2006, pp. 249?258.
[6] J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2009 May;115(1-2):44-61.
[7] Cardiovascular Toxicity of Anabolic Steroids, Annual Review of Pharmacology and Toxicology Vol. 33: 497-520
[8] Recent advances in doping analysis (12). Sport und Buch Strau?, K?ln (2004) 395-401
[9] Clin Exp Pharmacol Physiol. 2001 Oct;28(10):783-91.
 
Joedoubledose

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I'm so confused where this thread has gone lol
 

Immunknyc

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I saw some dude, do you not know what to look for ? Is it against rules to point you outside of this sites stores i have to read rules ..sec brb
 

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